Smash bros needs more girls? Why

[Glaciacott]

Gotta love Kid Icarus for having so much female star power, two of them being the general goddesses of uber powerful armies.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Wario getting a newcomer I think is questionable, but if Wario ever does get a newcomer the only real choice is a female anyway.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Yeah Wario either has Captain Syrup or Mona, I'm kind of doubting he'll actually get a newcomer though

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yep, absolutely questionnable, but the biased fanboy I am thinks it deserves two characters, including Wario, for several reasons.
And there's so many female to choose: even the assist trophies were both females characters (if we except Waluigi who suddenly becomes a Wario rep ). Makes me wonder if Kat & Ana will returns, also.

 

[HugoBoss]

That sarcastic comment is kinda dumb.

Females are half of the population. Villains, non-humans and females are not mutually exclusive and opposing groups. Having more female representation doesn't affect how they deal with anything else.

There are characters like Dixie Kong and Krystal that are female and non-human, Medusa who is female and a villain (also technically non-human), etc.

FYI, I am not opposed to having more Girls in Smash. It is a good thing to make the roster more diverse and I feel that the roster is too male orientated. Want me to be honest? I am simply saying that people sometimes act that adding more Females in Smash is the sole way to make the roster more diverse and unique and also focus too much on the aspect on adding females, even worse adding them for that sole reason and nothing more. They also leave the other "groups" like Villains or non human species out and don't think of characters like Dixie or Krystal or Medusa, they are less popular than female reps like Paulteana or Lucina despite them IMO offering something more unique. And that comment was rude and a bit unnecessary. I would prefer if you would rather reply to the entire post than one cheap random throwaway "sarcastic" comment that had little to no meaning that I was about to remove anyway.

 

[Erimir]

Want me to be honest? I am simply saying that people sometimes act that adding more Females in Smash is the sole way to make the roster more diverse and unique and also focus too much on the aspect on adding females

Yeah, and I still feel the same way about your argument. You're lumping issues of sexism in video games together with the trivial issue having more non-human and villain characters for variety's sake. They're not the same issue, at all. That's why I reacted the way I did.

I don't think they should add more females for some abstract "roster diversity", I think they should add more females because the game (and often Nintendo games in general) underrepresents females and females are half of the population. Villains and non-humans are fine to add, but they don't have any social relevance. There aren't non-human Smash players, and we certainly don't care about pleasing villainous Smash players. Female players, on the other hand, deserve to see themselves represented. So yeah, I do give it more importance than non-human characters and villains.

I don't see adding females and villains and non-humans as all being ways of making the roster more "diverse." I see adding more females as a way of making the game more representative of the population and reducing the sexism in video games, whereas the other two are just for variety. I'm not ignoring or forgetting villains or non-human characters, I just don't think they're as important.

And I'm guessing that a lot of the people you're saying are "forgetting" about non-humans or villains feel the same way - they just don't think that representing females and representing villains and non-human characters are on the same level, or even the same issue in the first place.

That said, I do think adding more variety to the roster is a good idea. I support adding more villains. That's part of why I actively don't want Chrom to be in the game, for example, because he doesn't really bring anything new that Marth and Ike don't already have. We don't need another Fire Emblem blue-haired, sword-wielding, male lord; we have two already. I support characters like King K Rool and Ridley too. In fact, I support them more than any female character. It's not like I'm one of the people who only supports female characters.

Honestly, I find it odd and sometimes even a little creepy the way certain people on here support any female character, no matter how obscure or unappealing the character is.

 

[Second Power]

I'd prefer if Nintendo made more girls worthy of being in Smash.

 

[Maraphy]

Yeah, and I still feel the same way about your argument. You're lumping issues of sexism in video games together with the trivial issue having more non-human and villain characters for variety's sake. They're not the same issue, at all. That's why I reacted the way I did.

I don't think they should add more females for some abstract "roster diversity", I think they should add more females because the game (and often Nintendo games in general) underrepresents females and females are half of the population. Villains and non-humans are fine to add, but they don't have any social relevance. There aren't non-human Smash players, and we certainly don't care about pleasing villainous Smash players. Female players, on the other hand, deserve to see themselves represented. So yeah, I do give it more importance than non-human characters and villains.

I don't see adding females and villains and non-humans as all being ways of making the roster more "diverse." I see adding more females as a way of making the game more representative of the population and reducing the sexism in video games, whereas the other two are just for variety. I'm not ignoring or forgetting villains or non-human characters, I just don't think they're as important.

And I'm guessing that a lot of the people you're saying are "forgetting" about non-humans or villains feel the same way - they just don't think that representing females and representing villains and non-human characters are the same issue, or on the same level.

That said, I do think adding more variety to the roster is a good idea. I support adding more villains. That's part of why I actively don't want Chrom to be in the game, for example, because he doesn't really bring anything new that Marth and Ike don't already have. We don't need another Fire Emblem blue-haired, sword-wielding, male lord; we have two already. I support characters like King K Rool and Ridley too. In fact, I support them more than any female character. It's not like I'm one of the people who only supports female characters.

Honestly, I find it odd and sometimes even a little creepy the way certain people on here support any female character, no matter how obscure or unappealing the character is.

This. All of this. Having more female representation in games goes above and beyond diversity for the sake of diversity

 

[bilbo43]

I agree with the notion that it shouldn't matter what the gender is of a character, if they are a fitting character they should be included where if they do not suit the roster they should not be forced into the lineup.

Also there are a lot of genderless (R.O.B and perhaps mewtwo) or potentially either gender (WFT, pokemon, villager, yoshi) characters that are included which people dont stop to think about.

The ratio is probably closer to being even than people realise if these things are considered, however more female characters are crying out to be included and should be included despite these points because the hero role is still taken up by the male protagonist in most nintendo series (exception is metroid) and Nintendo needs to promote the female protagonists (and antagonists if existing) provided that they fall under my original point.

 

[jaytalks]

yo thread:

Apparently Sakurai agreed that Smash needed more female characters.

 

[Leafeon523]

It still surprises me that with all the female supporting characters we have seen, Nintendo passed up one of their few remaining female protagonists: Lip from Panel de Pon. Ah well, maybe for ssb5.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It still surprises me that with all the female supporting characters we have seen, Nintendo passed up one of their few remaining female protagonists: Lip from Panel de Pon. Ah well, maybe for ssb5.

Not necessarily...

 

[Leafeon523]

Not necessarily...

Lip's stick being an item is the same as if Shulk's monado was confirmed as an item. It's not an outright deconfirmation, but it's pretty darn close.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I don't think there should be any difference on the gender of the characters. If a character makes sense and it's worthy, then it should be in, no matter if it's male or female.
Many of my wanted characters are female, not because I want more female characters, but because those characters have been ignored in the previous Smash Bros.
I'd like very much if Jill & Drill Dozer were upgraded to playable, since I think that the gear system would be interesting in the moveset... but probably she will return as assist, or will not return at all, sadly.

 

[Bassoonist]

I agree with the notion that it shouldn't matter what the gender is of a character, if they are a fitting character they should be included where if they do not suit the roster they should not be forced into the lineup.

Also there are a lot of genderless (R.O.B and perhaps mewtwo) or potentially either gender (WFT, pokemon, villager, yoshi) characters that are included which people dont stop to think about.

The ratio is probably closer to being even than people realise if these things are considered, however more female characters are crying out to be included and should be included despite these points because the hero role is still taken up by the male protagonist in most nintendo series (exception is metroid) and Nintendo needs to promote the female protagonists (and antagonists if existing) provided that they fall under my original point.

Well, lets take a look and see if what you're claiming is accurate:

Spoiler

For simplicity's sake I will list all SSB characters from all games in just one list:

Males:
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Link
4. Pikachu (while Pikachu's are 50/50 ratio in their games, the Pikachu in the SSB series is male, as indicated by the tail)
5. Ness
6. Yoshi
7. Captain Falcon
8. Fox
9. Kirby
10. Donkey Kong
11. Bowser
12. Dr. Mario
13. Falco
14. Ganondorf
15. Popo (Ice Climbers)
16. Mr. Game & Watch
17. Roy
18. Young Link
19. Diddy Kong
20. Ike
21. King Dedede
22. Lucas
23. Metaknight
24. Pikmin & Olimar
25. Pit
26. Snake
27. Sonic
28. Marth
29. Toon Link
30. Wario
31. Wolf
32. Little Mac
33. Mega Man
34. Mii Fighter (male)
35. Pac-Man
36. Robin (male)
37. Villager (male)
38. Wii Fit Trainer (male)
39. Pokemon Trainer

Gender-Ambigious/No Gender:
1. Jigglypuff
2. Mewtwo
3. Pichu
4. Charizard
5. Ivysaur
6. Squirtle
7. Greninja
8. R.O.B.
9. Lucario

Female:
1. Samus
2. Zero-Suit Samus
3. Peach
4. Zelda
5. Sheik
6. Nana (Ice Climbers)
7. Lucina
8. Mii Fighter (female)
9. Palutena
10. Robin (female)
11. Wii Fit Trainer (female)
12. Villager (female)
13. Rosalina & Luma

If I missed somebody, correct me but I don't think it will change much of anything.

So there you have it. There's no way that the 13 female characters combined with the 9 "gender-ambiguous" characters could total anywhere near the amount of male characters.

And you have to be really fair here. How many of those gender-ambiguous characters are really granted ambiguity instead of automatically being labeled male? That's the problem, of the Pokemon that have genders, not a single one of them aside from Jigglypuff and Pichu have a 50/50 gender ratio in the games. They are all predominately male, and in the Smash community they tend to be referred to as such. And R.O.B? When gendered it is always given male pronouns.

So, no, I can't take the gender-ambiguous characters as an 'even'ing of the roster's gender representation. Even if they *could* work that way (which I don't think they can, either way.) the amount of male characters is so far in the majority that the amount of female and gender-ambiguous characters combined only even makes it to around half the number of male characters.

EDIT: I made a mistake, Jigglypuff is 75% female/25% male. Doesn't change much, though!

 

[jaytalks]

ultimately, you are going to have more male characters and by a wider margin because even still today, video game companies including Nintendo still make a majority of their products for a male audience. At the time of Nintendo's peak, it was much more male driven. That is not to say women cannot relate to male characters, but rather the diversity of stories and experiences games can offer still are limited. And that's not just by gender, but I just want to stick with this thread's topic.

So you are and always will have more male characters in Smash. But there were plenty of worthy female candidates, and Sakurai recognized that this time around. The most telling thing is dual genders of the many newcomers. It would have been easy to leave the villager, Robin, and WFT for that matter with just one gender option, but we were given two options for all those characters. Robin is the most interesting, because unlike the other two, the female gender option was presented at the same time. And its also present on the website portrait. I think they wanted to avoid the complaints from the villager reveal.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'd prefer if Nintendo made more girls worthy of being in Smash.

Smartest comment made in the entire thread.

Aside from Dixie and maybe Krystal, there aren't too many big name females that have made a big impression, left to include.

The Inklings are looking to be a good start for Smash 5, but that's just one more individual. Maybe Nintendo will start giving prominence to more ladies in the future, but for the time being there's a valid reason why the male to female ratio isn't 50/50.

 

[mahnamahna]

Smartest comment made in the entire thread.

Aside from Dixie and maybe Krystal, there aren't too many big name females that have made a big impression, left to include.

The Inklings are looking to be a good start for Smash 5, but that's just one more individual. Maybe Nintendo will start giving prominence to more ladies in the future, but for the time being there's a valid reason why the male to female ratio isn't 50/50.

Agreed.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 10 females that would make sense to be playable at this point without being repetitive

1. Dixie Kong
2. Krystal
3. Impa
4. Inkling
5. Lip
6. Medusa
7. Sami
8. Bayonetta
9. Mona
10. Midna

The rest would either be second-tier clones of other female reps (Anna and Lyn might be too similar to Robin and Lucina, etc) or random, semi-unknown franchises (Drill Dozer, Savvy Stylist, etc).

Of those, only 4 seem somewhat likely for SSB4 (Dixie Kong, Krystal, Impa/Tetra, Inkling) at this point.

Mewtwo, King K. Rool and Ridley rank above all of those in terms of who SHOULD be added (Sakurai does what he pleases so he just might snub one, two or maybe all three of them)

Then there's Shulk and Chorus Men (I think one or both are still likely since they're new franchises as opposed to an old one like Chrom was)

Mach Rider and Duck Hunt Dog are duking it out for the retro slot (Little Mac just got rebooted)

Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Bowser Jr. and Captain Toad all have a decent chance too





Customization is probably the easiest way (give all of the Pokemon a male and female form except Mewtwo, Villager and WFT are neutral already, maybe give Yoshi a Birdo costume?, possibly give Kirby a female form?, Mrs. Pac-Man costume for Pac-Man?) to even out the male/female ratio. But it's unrealistic to expect the roster to be exactly 50/50 male to female when Nintendo hasn't given Sakurai that many great choices for female reps. Plus, Ridley and King K. Rool are still unrepresented in Smash. Same for Mach Rider, Takamaru, and Duck Hunt Dog. Paper Mario and Captain Toad would be solid. Shulk, Chorus Men, Chibi-Robo and Issac.

There's still plenty of male characters that aren't featured in Super Smash. I agree that more females, more villains and more unique movesets are needed, but it should be a natural progression. I don't want to see a character added just because they're a girl but because they have something that could add to SSB4. Palutena, WFT, Rosalina, Robin - they all add something. And Lucina is essentially a bonus character so even better! Dixie, Krystal, Impa/Tetra, Inkling - they all add something. Medusa would give Smash a female villain and Sami would give the game a replacement for Snake.

1. Ridley
2. King K. Rool
3. Mewtwo
4. Dixie Kong
5. Shulk
6. Chorus Men (could easily be customizable to be male or female)
7. Impa/Tetra
8. Mach Rider
9. Krystal
10. Captain Toad
11. Paper Mario
12. Bandana Dee
13. Duck Hunt Dog (could probably be customized to be female)
14. Bowser Jr.
15. Inkling

If I had to pick the 15 most likely newcomers at this moment, it'd be those 15

 

[Iko MattOrr]

possibly give Kirby a female form?

It wouldn't make sense, he's male, it's canon. Kirby is not an avatar like Robin or the villager, he's a character and in his games, he's male.
I don't want to be repetitive, but yeah, there's a better solution than a female Kirby, still related to Kirby if female characters are the matter.
But there are several problems: popularity, old character, Sakurai hates her for being a human.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Other really possible female characters we still can get? Toon Zelda, Tetra, Krystal, Medusa...

 

[shinhed-echi]

The female characters that come to MY mind and I support:

Kachi (Sin & Punishment 2): Co-Protagonist alongside Isa Jo. She's important because in the story she's

Spoiler

Some sort of reincarnation of Achi from S&P1, so in a way, she's a villainess gone good

. She attacks with punches and kicks, and uses a zapper-like gun from afar. Can deflect projectiles, and I think she can turn into a giant creature as well.
Can teleport and/or has some illusion sort of magic.


Pokemon Trainer (Pokemon): If Pokemon Trainer comes back, there needs to be a female alt for each color swap. If possible, each color should be a different trainer model. May, Dawn, Leaf, etc.


Alice (Balloon Kid): Main character. She set out on a quest to rescue her little brother from an evil scientist and his goons. She's basically a female Balloon Fighter with a name.


Alexandra Rovias (Eternal Darkness): Main character. Has a variety of ancient Magik at her disposal, uses a gladius for Melee attacks. Can even summon creatures of the underworld. Maybe she could introduce a "sanity" bar gimmick?


Captain Syrup: (Warioland): Main villainess. Has her minions, she could use swords, and bombs. Her Final Smash could involve a genie!

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I think this is good as far as female characters go, I don't see anymore female characters that should be added.

Krystal is kind of nasty, besides Zero Suit Samus is better, and Wolf returning is more important being the bad guy of the series

Dixie Kong, again another one who's nasty, no more monkeys, add King K Rool if there's another DKC character

Mii Fighter pretty much covers a lot of female fighters

Peach always gets a Daisy costume, so might as well confirm her too, as well as Pauline since technically Peach's red dress is Pauline.

Rosalina opens up possibility of White Mage

I was in support of getting more females, but I feel as far as adding new characters to the game, its been done already.

At this point just add villains now, we need them more than anything, evil rules all.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

I can see Dixie probably being the last female fighter added to the roster for newcomers. Krystal has a shot, but I don't think it's very likely she'll get in. But I could be wrong though. I think Sakurai has done a pretty good job with adding more females to the roster. A huge improvement from Brawl to Smash 4.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Yeah, and I still feel the same way about your argument. You're lumping issues of sexism in video games together with the trivial issue having more non-human and villain characters for variety's sake. They're not the same issue, at all. That's why I reacted the way I did.

I don't think they should add more females for some abstract "roster diversity", I think they should add more females because the game (and often Nintendo games in general) underrepresents females and females are half of the population. Villains and non-humans are fine to add, but they don't have any social relevance. There aren't non-human Smash players, and we certainly don't care about pleasing villainous Smash players. Female players, on the other hand, deserve to see themselves represented. So yeah, I do give it more importance than non-human characters and villains.

I don't see adding females and villains and non-humans as all being ways of making the roster more "diverse." I see adding more females as a way of making the game more representative of the population and reducing the sexism in video games, whereas the other two are just for variety. I'm not ignoring or forgetting villains or non-human characters, I just don't think they're as important.

And I'm guessing that a lot of the people you're saying are "forgetting" about non-humans or villains feel the same way - they just don't think that representing females and representing villains and non-human characters are on the same level, or even the same issue in the first place.

That said, I do think adding more variety to the roster is a good idea. I support adding more villains. That's part of why I actively don't want Chrom to be in the game, for example, because he doesn't really bring anything new that Marth and Ike don't already have. We don't need another Fire Emblem blue-haired, sword-wielding, male lord; we have two already. I support characters like King K Rool and Ridley too. In fact, I support them more than any female character. It's not like I'm one of the people who only supports female characters.

Honestly, I find it odd and sometimes even a little creepy the way certain people on here support any female character, no matter how obscure or unappealing the character is.

I realize this is two months old now, but I agree with this 100%. It's not about "roster diversity" (which is good in itself, of course), it's about representation.

Of course, before solving that problem in Smash, Nintendo needs to solve it first by actually having more good female characters.

Well I keep seeing all this support for the inclusion of more female characters. Why? Characters should be based off their impact on a franchise or just Nintendo in general.

I realize this is two years old now, but it's still the topic here.

In a perfect world and even game, the above statement would be totally reasonable. But it's not an even game; stretching it, Brawl had 6 females (Peach, Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Jigglypuff) out of 39 playable characters, which is about 15%. That's pitiful. Even with the inclusions in SSB4, it's unlikely to reach 30% (though it also depends on how you count the double gender inclusions), despite the fact that half the population is female.

All things considered, video games are a predominantly male market, and it makes sense that there will be more male characters than female. That's fine. It doesn't need to be 50/50. But I'd expect at least 65/35 before I'm satisfied.

Dixie Kong, again another one who's nasty, no more monkeys, add King K Rool if there's another DKC character

"Nasty?" Dixie deserves the spot over K. Rool. She's been around practically as long and is still relevant. Unlike him, she even got to star in her own game.

If a Zelda newcomer is to come, it should be Impa, so that's another. I guess it could also be Tetra/Toon Zelda, though.

Lip would be a good retro candidate, but that's not likely at this point.

Captain Syrup or Medusa would be good for female villains, though I don't want to see Medusa in this game because I already feel like Kid Icarus is being overrepresented.

Unless Krystal plays a big part in Star Fox Wii U, I don't think she deserves a spot.

 

[strawhatninja]

I think Sakurai has definitely listened to the fans and added more females. I just wish their would be for villains maybe female villains.

 

[Souldin]

It is nice to see more female characters having been added to SSB... admittedly I feel the focus has almost been a bit one-sided as other areas have lacked any additions so far (villains, and so far with exception to Mii's customisation capability, we've yet to get a new heavy weight), but taking it on it's own, the female additions have been nice. I do feel there were some better choices that could've been made, or rather those I feel should have prioritised, but that's personal opinion. Still, it does give me a list of female characters I feel are also worthy of consideration for a playable spot in this SSB or future ones;

* Bubbles from Clu Clu Land (If I'm right, she is Nintendo's 1st female protagonist).
* Lip from Panel de Pon (my most wanted newcomer of all).
* Hikari from Shin Onigashima (likely as a tag-team alongside Donbe)
* Jill from Drill Dozer
* Alex Rovias from Eternal Darkness
* Ashley Robbins from Another Code
* Alice from Balloon Kid (it'd make more sense for Balloon Fighter or even Tingle, but as noted, this is for worth considering, not 'they should be in above all others')
* Achi/Kachi from Sin & Punishment
* Dixie Kong from Donkey Kong (honestly, when female characters were becoming a focus I figured she'd one of the very 1st choices)
* Medusa from Kid Icarus
* Krystal from Star Fox
* Impa from Legend of Zelda (although I'm not too comfortable with this one given how many Zelda reps we'll be having as it is, like I said, consideration for future also)
* Captain Syrup from the Wario Land series
* A female character from the Wario Ware series (I'd prefer Ashley, though I can understand why others nominate Mona)

There are also characters of a customisable nature, like what looks to be the case with Inkling, who appears to come in both genders, though the primary orange haired Inkling is female and is more recognisable.

I've not listed this in order of priority by the way, merely listing all the ones I feel are worth considering at this point in time. In my eyes there are quite a few decent picks for further female inclusion for both this and future SSB games, and I'm sure Nintendo will at least establish a couple more by the time of the next SSB. Overall, I've never felt we've been short when it comes to decent female inclusions for SSB.

That said, I would like to see the focus on the remaining inclusions for this SSB in particular to be on including some villains and retro series reps, and perhaps even continued to be focused on in the next (we are seriously lacking in the playable villains department). Luckily there are candidates available whom fit these categories and are also female.

 

[Reila]

I just wish their would be for villains maybe female villains.

Medusa ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Anyways, unlike a lot of people here, I don't think the female characters in SBB4 were added because "lol female", but because they were either the next in line to get "playability" status or because it wouldn't make any sense to add only the male variation of the character.

Palutena is arguably the most important character in Kid Icarus, albeit not THE protagonist, so it is only natural to see her as the second KI rep. Lucina is not only one of the most popular Fire Emblem Awakening characters, but also an easy character to make, because clone. Robin is, like you or not, the main lead character in Awakening and since she is an avatar, she just to be either female or male. Wii Fit Trainer and Villager can also be of both genders, so it is only natural that both versions would be in Smash. Same goes to Mii Fighters. That leaves Rosalina as the "weird" one, but when you consider the popularity of Mario Galaxy, it is only natural that a character originated from that game would be playable in Smash and who else from Mario Galaxy would be playable in Smash, if not her?

People really need to stop spreading misinformation about Sakurai wanting to add more female characters to Smash just because. He never said that. Anyways, I don't think there are yet-to-be-revealed female characters in Smash 4. It would be nice got get Medusa, Dixie or Lip, but I doubt they are in the game. Impa could be the Zelda newcomer - if there is one - but I am expecting Ghirahim or either a second Ganon/dorf. I would also LOVE if the Advance Wars rep was Sami, but the chances of an Advance Wars rep being in Smash are abysmal and even if there was one, it would probably be Andy :/

 

[Morian]

Only Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer seems like natural female inclusions for me (of the newcomers). WFT well, is silly choose the male one first as the main representative.

Mii Fighters are forced, Lucina is forced, fem!Robin and fem!Villagers are optional not necessary, but are cool options atleast.

 

[Souldin]

Only Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer seems like natural female inclusions for me (of the newcomers). WFT well, is silly choose the male one first as the main representative.

Mii Fighters are forced, Lucina is forced, fem!Robin and fem!Villagers are optional not necessary, but are cool options atleast.

That's a very good point. The increase in female characters for the SSB roster does almost come across as artificially made, with many being a case of simply a secondary option (I shall assume that the first type shown is the primary, basic setting of the character thus Villager and Robin = Male, Wii Fit Trainer = Female, primarily) or the same character separated by the removal of transformations (Zero Suit Samus and Samus, Zelda and Sheik, that's 4 in terms of slots but technically only two women).

You could even try and argue that Rosalina is somewhat forced, given the plethora of alternatives available and yet they go with a 5th Mario rep (though for my own sanity I'm assuming her inclusion was done so because Sakurai had come up with that unique move-set of hers and thought Rosalina & Luma the most fitting for it). I'd say Lucina though isn't necessarily forced, but she was unintentional and all, so their is something worth regarding her as but at 5 in the morning I can't think of what alternative word to describe her inclusion as.

But yeah, I do agree with you on this matter, a lot of them do come across as unnatural due to the manner of their inclusion.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

But yeah, I do agree with you on this matter, a lot of them do come across as unnatural due to the manner of their inclusion.

Agreeing with what exactly?

If Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer feel natural and Robin and Villager count as male more than female, then the only "unnatural" female newcomers are Lucina and Palutena. You already justified Lucina yourself, and Palutena was practically the most predicted newcomer of all, gender being meaningless. Definitely not forced.

Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS were split because Sakurai decided to remove mid-match transformations. It just so happens that two of the three cases of this were with female characters.

I also have no clue how Mii Fighters can seem like a "forced" female inclusion when they are either gender and...just Miis. What's unnatural about characters who are supposed to be able to be either male or female (Mii Fighters, Villager, Robin) being male or female in this game?

It's sounding more like some people want to make a case for the idea that females are being added for the sake of having more females, but that just isn't true. Wait until we see someone like Krystal or Medusa to say that.

WFT well, is silly choose the male one first as the main representative.

Not exactly in the same line of thought, but I have no idea what this is supposed to be. Why the hell would male WFT be the default when he didn't even exist to begin with until they created him for this game?

 

[Morian]

Not exactly in the same line of thought, but I have no idea what this is supposed to be. Why the hell would male WFT be the default when he didn't even exist to begin with until they created him for this game?

wat

He is not a Smash original, until I am missing something.

I also have no clue how Mii Fighters can seem like a "forced" female inclusion when they are either gender and...just Miis.

You read what you want. Miis are forced in general, not the female ones.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

wat

He is not a Smash original, until I am missing something.

...Oh. My mistake, I guess. I could have sworn it was said somewhere that he was a Smash original.

 

[jaytalks]

Only Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer seems like natural female inclusions for me (of the newcomers). WFT well, is silly choose the male one first as the main representative.

Mii Fighters are forced, Lucina is forced, fem!Robin and fem!Villagers are optional not necessary, but are cool options atleast.

Well there's also Palutena.

don't understand what you mean by forced. Forced into including them for the game? To say they aren't deserving of their spot? Miis played a huge role in the success of the Wii. Lucina was an alternate costume that got lucky.

In both Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem: Awakening, the choice to pick the gender is a huge element of the gamer's experience. In the case of the Villager, it makes it so the avatar personifies. In Fire Emblem, the role in the game changes with a different gender, with different pairing options and different interactions with the characters.

That's a very good point. The increase in female characters for the SSB roster does almost come across as artificially made, with many being a case of simply a secondary option (I shall assume that the first type shown is the primary, basic setting of the character thus Villager and Robin = Male, Wii Fit Trainer = Female, primarily) or the same character separated by the removal of transformations (Zero Suit Samus and Samus, Zelda and Sheik, that's 4 in terms of slots but technically only two women).

You could even try and argue that Rosalina is somewhat forced, given the plethora of alternatives available and yet they go with a 5th Mario rep (though for my own sanity I'm assuming her inclusion was done so because Sakurai had come up with that unique move-set of hers and thought Rosalina & Luma the most fitting for it). I'd say Lucina though isn't necessarily forced, but she was unintentional and all, so their is something worth regarding her as but at 5 in the morning I can't think of what alternative word to describe her inclusion as.

But yeah, I do agree with you on this matter, a lot of them do come across as unnatural due to the manner of their inclusion.

Even still that's an improvement over Brawl. With Pokemon Trainer, a character who had both options present in Fire Red and Leaf Green, did not get an alternate gender option. Dual gendered characters means that Smash is recognizing avatar type characters in Smash necessitates both genders. That is not an artificial decision. It's recognizing that the Villager and Robin are better represented with both gender options.

In the case of Rosalina, you have to remember she is also a 100% Nintendo EAD Tokyo creation, the current developers of 3D Mario games. So I imagine they would have some say, like how Intelligent Systems has had some say in the FE characters.

Lucina's inclusion is lucky, and that's how Sakurai put it.

In the end, one version of the character has to be default. But much like Wario's costumes (yellow suit and Wario Ware outfit) in Brawl, since both are present on initial selection, I would say that it doesn't really matter if they are the default. Sure, I'd prefer a female Robin default, but the male Robin appeared to be the default in Awakening even with the hood on. In the case of the Villager, I think the Male Villager had a stronger design in City Folk. But in those games, there is no question that the gender is up to the player. And that's the same here.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

...Oh. My mistake, I guess. I could have sworn it was said somewhere that he was a Smash original.

Why would they just create a male version of a character like that?

 

[Morian]

Lol I forget Palutena.

I don't think Palutena is forced. Only her gimmick (the different custom specials). She has an interesting archetype playstyle in her default moveset.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Why would they just create a male version of a character like that?

That's what I was wondering.

 

[bilbo43]

Well, lets take a look and see if what you're claiming is accurate:

Spoiler

For simplicity's sake I will list all SSB characters from all games in just one list:

Males:
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Link
4. Pikachu (while Pikachu's are 50/50 ratio in their games, the Pikachu in the SSB series is male, as indicated by the tail)
5. Ness
6. Yoshi
7. Captain Falcon
8. Fox
9. Kirby
10. Donkey Kong
11. Bowser
12. Dr. Mario
13. Falco
14. Ganondorf
15. Popo (Ice Climbers)
16. Mr. Game & Watch
17. Roy
18. Young Link
19. Diddy Kong
20. Ike
21. King Dedede
22. Lucas
23. Metaknight
24. Pikmin & Olimar
25. Pit
26. Snake
27. Sonic
28. Marth
29. Toon Link
30. Wario
31. Wolf
32. Little Mac
33. Mega Man
34. Mii Fighter (male)
35. Pac-Man
36. Robin (male)
37. Villager (male)
38. Wii Fit Trainer (male)
39. Pokemon Trainer

Gender-Ambigious/No Gender:
1. Jigglypuff
2. Mewtwo
3. Pichu
4. Charizard
5. Ivysaur
6. Squirtle
7. Greninja
8. R.O.B.
9. Lucario

Female:
1. Samus
2. Zero-Suit Samus
3. Peach
4. Zelda
5. Sheik
6. Nana (Ice Climbers)
7. Lucina
8. Mii Fighter (female)
9. Palutena
10. Robin (female)
11. Wii Fit Trainer (female)
12. Villager (female)
13. Rosalina & Luma

If I missed somebody, correct me but I don't think it will change much of anything.

So there you have it. There's no way that the 13 female characters combined with the 9 "gender-ambiguous" characters could total anywhere near the amount of male characters.

And you have to be really fair here. How many of those gender-ambiguous characters are really granted ambiguity instead of automatically being labeled male? That's the problem, of the Pokemon that have genders, not a single one of them aside from Jigglypuff and Pichu have a 50/50 gender ratio in the games. They are all predominately male, and in the Smash community they tend to be referred to as such. And R.O.B? When gendered it is always given male pronouns.

So, no, I can't take the gender-ambiguous characters as an 'even'ing of the roster's gender representation. Even if they *could* work that way (which I don't think they can, either way.) the amount of male characters is so far in the majority that the amount of female and gender-ambiguous characters combined only even makes it to around half the number of male characters.

EDIT: I made a mistake, Jigglypuff is 75% female/25% male. Doesn't change much, though!

I didn't break it down like that when I made the post originally but good job, I had no idea how one sided it was, and you are completely right, however I always knew more male characters have been included than female characters but my overall suggestion was that we should only include female characters if they are worthy of smash, not added for the hell of it to even up the gender ratio.

Looking at the female characters added to this game, I have no doubt they deserve a spot, but for the casual gamers, not many will be immediately recognisable. I showed images of Rosalina, Palutena and Lucina to some of my cousins and casual gaming friends and they had no idea who they were. The video game industry has a habit of generally making the main characters male. Smash reflects this, whether they intended to or not. The worst thing smash could do is include half thought out and undeserving characters purely for the fact they are female to even up the representation.

I want to see the inclusion of characters like dixie and impa etc. however they need to have movesets and a fanbase deserving of inclusion.

 

[MagnesD3]

Cough, Krystal, Cough

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I like my women in Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS how I like my beer.

Spoiler

 

[Dre89]

and females are half of the population. .

They're not half the population of iconic Nintendo characters though. The reason that there is more males in the game is because the majority of iconic Nintendo characters are male. I'm all for having female characters in the game (Dixie is my most wanted newcomer) but only if they're iconic characters. I don't like the idea of adding females for the sake of their gender at the expense of otherwise better fits.

Dixie is actually a prime example of what I'm talking about. If DK is only afforded one new rep, although I'd personally prefer Dixie, K. Rool would be a better newcomer because he's more iconic and he's more unique. If they decide to add Dixie over K. Rool purely because she's female, that'd be an example of the roster and the general fanbase suffering for the sake of maintaining a politically correct ideology.