Smash bros needs more girls? Why

[jigglover]

I am not necessarily understanding the point you are trying to convey; you believe that there are too many female characters, but you don't believe that Rosalina's inclusion was based on her gender, but if she was compared to Bowser Jr. or Toad, her gender was the deciding factor? Or did I misinterpret something?

Sorry, I didn't word it very well. I edited my post to make it make sense now though! ^_^

 

[Morbi]

Sorry, I didn't word it very well. I edited my post to make it make sense now though! ^_^

Ah, thank you for the clarification. I now understand where you stand on the topic.

 

[shinhed-echi]

At least one or two more girls will probably make it in.

I just hope we get to choose between Popo or Nana in the lead. Not sure if Brawl allowed it, but Melee certainly did.
(Even better if Nana had her own stats differences from Popo).

 

[loganhogan]

Female Villager confirmed!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I fail to see how if 50% of the population is represented by 20% of the character roster, that is in any way overdoing it.

I also fail to see how the argument that Nintendo has a small pool of female characters to draw upon is an argument that makes this under-representation okay, when it is in fact indicative of a larger problem with Nintendo and video game characters/protagonists as a whole.

I also fail to understand why you'd think female gamers would specifically be attracted to cutesy characters like Pikachu and wouldn't have interests and playstyles as diverse as that of male gamers.

Furthermore and finally, I fail to understand where you pulled the 20% statistic from, and even if said statistic true, why it is okay to not try improving that figure. I want more people to game with and to enjoy the things that I do.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Curious, half the characters introduced so far can be either gender now, Villager and WFT with alt costumes and Greninja because it's a Pokemon.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yeah, that's pretty cool imo.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Would Female Robin be seen as another female?
If so, here are my female newcomers I would like to see
Robin/Miciahah/Lucina
Palutena
Dixie Kong
Sami
Hikari(and Donbe)
Lip (QQ)

 

[Dark Phazon]

Great now make a thread why Smash bros needs Villians.

Females:

Zelda
Samus/ZSS
Peach
Rosalina
Palutena
Wii Fit Trainer
Villager Skin

You have enough....you can do a 4 player match full of Females

Villians:

Bowser
Ganondorf
DDD
??????
??????


...
.
.
.
(-_-)
Ya......

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Great now make a thread why Smash bros needs Villians.

Females:

Zelda
Samus/ZSS
Peach
Rosalina
Palutena
Wii Fit Trainer
Villager Skin

You have enough....you can do a 4 player match full of Females

Villians:

Bowser
Ganondorf
DDD
??????
??????


...
.
.
.
(-_-)
Ya......

We had one of those. And I thought the consensus was that Brawl added a lot of villains or at least characters not firmly on the heroes side. Dedede, Meta Knight, Wario and Wolf come to mind.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Great now make a thread why Smash bros needs Villians.

Females:

Zelda
Samus/ZSS
Peach
Rosalina
Palutena
Wii Fit Trainer
Villager Skin

You have enough....you can do a 4 player match full of Females

Villians:

Bowser
Ganondorf
DDD
??????
??????


...
.
.
.
(-_-)
Ya......

Even more Reason for Ridley.
Also K.Rool and Medusa

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Medusa brings both the female and villain traits

On a side note, Dusty, nice avatar.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Medusa brings both the female and villain traits

On a side note, Dusty, nice avatar.

Exactly!

And thank you, I do my best to keep it good looking~

 

[Richard Nixon]

Villain characters and female characters are kind of radically different concerns. The reason people argue for more female characters in video games is so that women - an actual demographic of real existing people - can receive adequate representation and feel included. More villains on the roster would be nice, but that doesn't correlate to a real world issue like the under-representation of women in media.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Villain characters and female characters are kind of radically different concerns. The reason people argue for more female characters in video games is so that women - an actual demographic of real existing people - can receive adequate representation and feel included. More villains on the roster would be nice, but that doesn't correlate to a real world issue like the under-representation of women in media.

Villains have rights too! Life must be hard for them sometimes.

reminds me of that comic.

Spoiler

By the way, I simply want more womens in Smash because there's a lot a female Nintendo characters I like who are not in Smash Bros (see signature).
Well, it's actually going pretty good, AT wise (why am I trolling myself)

 

[jigglover]

Villain characters and female characters are kind of radically different concerns. The reason people argue for more female characters in video games is so that women - an actual demographic of real existing people - can receive adequate representation and feel included. More villains on the roster would be nice, but that doesn't correlate to a real world issue like the under-representation of women in media.

You're saying that criminals shouldn't be allowed to play smash?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

You're saying that criminals shouldn't be allowed to play smash?

... Yes.

Convicted felons probably don't merit access to video games.

Yes, I know you're trolling. No, it's not appreciated.

 

[jigglover]

... Yes.

Convicted felons probably don't merit access to video games.

Yes, I know you're trolling. No, it's not appreciated.

No but to be fair, the whole point about "females being under represented in video games" is a bit stupid. Stereotypical, yes, but most of the soldiers in any federation will be male. That's like, most of microsoft out, and a lot of sony. If a game is aimed at a male audience, which a hell of a lot are, females as the main protagonist would be a deterrent most of the time. It worked for Samus, but not so much now. This is the place females have in the video game industry - for Nintendo it's pretty much damsel in distress a lot of the time, but in more recent games the girls have actually started being really useful. In games like "the last of us" if you see a head strong girl it is quite refreshing and makes you feel for her more. This brings me back to my previous point where females aren't big enough in the video game industry to warrant lots of placement in smash -- villains feature in almost every mainstream game and in several spin offs for most companies, especially in Nintendo, which is why they should have more placement than just 3, and D3 isn't even a villain any more...

 

[kiteinthesky]

No but to be fair, the whole point about "females being under represented in video games" is a bit stupid. Stereotypical, yes, but most of the soldiers in any federation will be male. That's like, most of microsoft out, and a lot of sony. If a game is aimed at a male audience, which a hell of a lot are, females as the main protagonist would be a deterrent most of the time. It worked for Samus, but not so much now. This is the place females have in the video game industry - for Nintendo it's pretty much damsel in distress a lot of the time, but in more recent games the girls have actually started being really useful. In games like "the last of us" if you see a head strong girl it is quite refreshing and makes you feel for her more. This brings me back to my previous point where females aren't big enough in the video game industry to warrant lots of placement in smash -- villains feature in almost every mainstream game and in several spin offs for most companies, especially in Nintendo, which is why they should have more placement than just 3, and D3 isn't even a villain any more...

The video game industry needs to be better than that though. The video game industry commands such a large market share of our media now that they're able to influence culture in much the same way TV and movies do -- if it didn't we wouldn't be having this debate. The media is a large part of what makes our society what it is and to not include women and minorities in media is to effectively shut them out of society which is wrong. And that argument presumes that men only want bland shooters with the same bland generic white male stereotype with nothing new, different or original thrown in at all. Not all men feel that way, not all men have the hard-nosed narrow ultra-masculine mindset lots of companies (and society in general) presume that they do; I therefore feel this justification for the lack of representation of other groups is insulting to men too.

I also dispute the claim that women aren't big enough in the game industry to warrant lots of placement in Smash. One, it's missing the point -- people want women in Smash so they can be more represented and get a bigger place in the industry, and secondly there are quite a few women to choose from. I don't know if anyone mentioned these for example and I'm sure as hell not reading through 26 pages to find out, but what about some female Square reps, like Terra or Celes or Lucca or Ayla? Why isn't Lyn from Fire Emblem playable; why is she stuck being an assist trophy while we get to play as every other character from that series? Or Midna? Or Krystal? Also Smash's rosters up until now show that damsels in distress are welcome too -- clearly just being a major character in a franchise's storyline is enough, which is why people want more villains too.

Smash is a celebration of gaming in general. It shouldn't be just about paying tribute to the past or the present but should help pave the way for a brighter, more diverse future for gaming in general, and having more women in the roster will go a long way toward making that happen.

That being said I am quite miffed that Lyn isn't playable.

 

[Erimir]

Reposted from elsewhere:

1) Being female isn't a reason to get added. I really don't care if a video game character is male or female unless if it's a part of their character. What I'm trying to get at is this--I don't really understand why someone looks at a character and goes, "they're female. I want them in because of that." I don't look at characters and go, "they're male. I relate to them now, and I want them in Smash." I am a male, but I that doesn't stop me from playing as the likes of Zelda or Samus in Smash. I really don't understand this whole mindset.

In reference to the underlined portion, I think it's hard to understand that when you're part of the ubiquitous majority.

I could see how I might feel that way about male vs. female, or white vs. black characters, etc. if I wasn't part of a minority myself. I don't see white or male characters and say "I relate to them now". White males don't think that way because white males are everywhere in almost every game/movie/TV show/etc. You don't need to identify with all of them, you have a buffet of options to pick from, so why identify with any but the ones that are similar to you in personality/family background/etc.?

I imagine most white people would say the same thing about not identifying with characters because they're white. But there's also the notion you hear a lot when talking about movies... "White audiences won't identify with a black protagonist" which is why Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Halle Berry and a couple other "proven" black actors are basically the only black actors you ever see headlining a blockbuster picture that's not a "black movie" (i.e. marketed primarily to black audiences).

And you'd definitely see the same justifications being given for why there aren't many movies or video games with gay leads. Straight people don't want to watch gay people fall in love, or be action heroes, rescue their same-sex boyfriend/girlfriend from the bad guy, etc. etc. And I definitely see straight people saying the same thing about how they don't identify with characters for being straight. I even saw that with people talking about the Tomodachi Life controversy, and in that game your character is supposed to represent yourself! But if that's actually true, I find it awfully confusing why more of them don't watch movies with gay lead characters. It seems to me that they think that not identifying with non-straight characters because they're not straight is somehow different from identifying with straight characters because they're straight.

I would love it if Nintendo made a (non-caricatured) gay character and that character eventually got into Smash. I don't think it means I'm making my life all about that. I think if I were straight though, I would have a hard time understanding that because I know how easy it is to take white and male representation for granted.

When a TV show, or a movie studio, or a gaming company, makes a minority the lead or an important character, who is not just a token and not a stereotype, it says that people are interested in telling and hearing your story. It says that you can be the romantic lead, or the role model, etc. etc.

And it's not that seeing a white/male/straight character says the opposite. It's when you only ever see the white/male/straight characters (or very disproportionately see them) that you get a different message. I mean, as a non-white or non-straight or female gamer you'd have to wonder why that is. And the conclusion that jumps out is this: It's fine for you to listen to their stories, but they don't wanna hear yours. Their stories matter, yours don't. They don't generally think you can be the same things that the majority group can be.

And that's why I give more support to any female or racial minority character, assuming that character meets the standard of worthiness. Because I think that female gamers and black gamers and whoever else deserve the chance to see themselves (that aspect of themselves) included in the game.

Unfortunately, Nintendo barely has any non-white, non-Asian characters, and I don't think any of them are important enough to deserve being in Smash so that hasn't come up. I think that's an issue they need to work on.

Anyway, I know that's it hard to see it from the other perspective when you're part of the majority/dominant group. But it would be nice if people would try to see it from the other side, and not dismiss the perspective of members of the minority/non-dominant groups as invalid and tell them how they should feel, which I've seen from a lot of people when these issues come up (not necessarily the person I'm quoting, which I included for context).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well, time to put in my view of this.

The number of female characters, or rather the lack of them, makes sense, given the relatively much fewer notable Nintendo females in comparison to notable Nintendo males so the balance was always going to be skewed and given the general lack of actual obligation Sakurai generally feels to include tons of female characters. Brawl's newcomer line-up proves this. That said, given that so far, no majorly notable Nintendo female character has faced omission, I'm not particularly concerned about the lack of females in Smash, per se. I actually think the lack of notable notable Nintendo female characters that exists is a much more fundamental subject to look at and discuss in a calm and composed manner, and overall more meaningful and productive. This is because given that there lies the true cause of ...well everything this topic subject relates to.

In other words, I don't think the lack of females in Smash is what people should be focusing on so much as it is the lack of notable Nintendo females in general.

That being said I am quite miffed that Lyn isn't playable.

Although that said, I'd rather have Lyn than any other FE character. Thankfully speaking she is likely to be in Project M.

 

[loganhogan]

Great now make a thread why Smash bros needs Villians.

Females:

Zelda
Samus/ZSS
Peach
Rosalina
Palutena
Wii Fit Trainer
Villager Skin

You have enough....you can do a 4 player match full of Females

Villians:

Bowser
Ganondorf
DDD
??????
??????


...
.
.
.
(-_-)
Ya......

You're doing it wrong

We need a thread claiming we don't need anymore villains and then derail such thread into a pro-villain topic.

 

[Erimir]

I actually think the lack of notable notable Nintendo female characters that exists is a much more fundamental subject to look at and discuss in a calm and composed manner, and overall more meaningful and productive. This is because given that there lies the true cause of ...well everything this topic subject relates to.

Smash Bros is one way of making a female character more prominent, however.

Like Rosalina - while she was on her way up in prominence anyway, putting her in Smash is going to make her be seen as an even bigger character, which means I pretty much expect her to be a series regular going forward.

 

[pupNapoleon]

At least one or two more girls will probably make it in.

I just hope we get to choose between Popo or Nana in the lead. Not sure if Brawl allowed it, but Melee certainly did.
(Even better if Nana had her own stats differences from Popo).

Well, males have more natural muscle and females more natural fat. So, Nana could be slower and hit softer, but with higher defenses and weight?

 

[Morbi]

... Yes.

Convicted felons probably don't merit access to video games.

Yes, I know you're trolling. No, it's not appreciated.

Inmates do have access to video-games though.

Well, time to put in my view of this.

The number of female characters, or rather the lack of them, makes sense, given the relatively much fewer notable Nintendo females in comparison to notable Nintendo males so the balance was always going to be skewed and given the general lack of actual obligation Sakurai generally feels to include tons of female characters. Brawl's newcomer line-up proves this. That said, given that so far, no majorly notable Nintendo female character has faced omission, I'm not particularly concerned about the lack of females in Smash, per se. I actually think the lack of notable notable Nintendo female characters that exists is a much more fundamental subject to look at and discuss in a calm and composed manner, and overall more meaningful and productive. This is because given that there lies the true cause of ...well everything this topic subject relates to.

In other words, I don't think the lack of females in Smash is what people should be focusing on so much as it is the lack of notable Nintendo females in general.

[quote="kiteinthesky, post: 16753054, member: 220946"
That being said I am quite miffed that Lyn isn't playable.

Although that said, I'd rather have Lyn than any other FE character. Thankfully speaking she is likely to be in Project M.[/quote]
I agree with this sentiment; however, some affirmative action isn't necessarily a horrible notion to consider when there are prominent females neglected. I mean, there are enough female characters that wouldn't be chosen predominately based on their gender that have yet to be included.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Nintendo is certainly not at more fault for few female game characters than any other company; and considering females did not used to be the gaming demographic, this is not really a matter of equal rights, it is marketing.

 

[Vann Accessible]

I still say Medusa should be in. A female villain would be cool, and she's basically the only one to fit the bill.

I also feel she beats Hades in importance as a villain, as she is the original Kid Icarus antagonist. Furthermore, I feel Hades is just a poorly designed watered down Ganondorf. Medusa has snake hair and gothic sexiness which would be all kinds of awesome in HD.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Nintendo is certainly not at more fault for few female game characters than any other company; and considering females did not used to be the gaming demographic, this is not really a matter of equal rights, it is marketing.

Fine. I agree Nintendo is not more at fault than any other gaming company for underrepresting female video game characters. It's still a problem for the industry as a whole, Nintendo is still a part of the game industry and is as open to criticism as any other company continues to market to specific demographic that no longer exclusively consumes their products.

Saying "It's the norm" does not excuse the individual, nor does it deserve to continue being the norm.

 

[HeroG]

Reposted from elsewhere:
In reference to the underlined portion, I think it's hard to understand that when you're part of the ubiquitous majority.

I could see how I might feel that way about male vs. female, or white vs. black characters, etc. if I wasn't part of a minority myself. I don't see white or male characters and say "I relate to them now". White males don't think that way because white males are everywhere in almost every game/movie/TV show/etc. You don't need to identify with all of them, you have a buffet of options to pick from, so why identify with any but the ones that are similar to you in personality/family background/etc.?

I imagine most white people would say the same thing about not identifying with characters because they're white. But there's also the notion you hear a lot when talking about movies... "White audiences won't identify with a black protagonist" which is why Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Halle Berry and a couple other "proven" black actors are basically the only black actors you ever see headlining a blockbuster picture that's not a "black movie" (i.e. marketed primarily to black audiences).

And you'd definitely see the same justifications being given for why there aren't many movies or video games with gay leads. Straight people don't want to watch gay people fall in love, or be action heroes, rescue their same-sex boyfriend/girlfriend from the bad guy, etc. etc. And I definitely see straight people saying the same thing about how they don't identify with characters for being straight. I even saw that with people talking about the Tomodachi Life controversy, and in that game your character is supposed to represent yourself! But if that's actually true, I find it awfully confusing why more of them don't watch movies with gay lead characters. It seems to me that they think that not identifying with non-straight characters because they're not straight is somehow different from identifying with straight characters because they're straight.

I would love it if Nintendo made a (non-caricatured) gay character and that character eventually got into Smash. I don't think it means I'm making my life all about that. I think if I were straight though, I would have a hard time understanding that because I know how easy it is to take white and male representation for granted.

When a TV show, or a movie studio, or a gaming company, makes a minority the lead or an important character, who is not just a token and not a stereotype, it says that people are interested in telling and hearing your story. It says that you can be the romantic lead, or the role model, etc. etc.

And it's not that seeing a white/male/straight character says the opposite. It's when you only ever see the white/male/straight characters (or very disproportionately see them) that you get a different message. I mean, as a non-white or non-straight or female gamer you'd have to wonder why that is. And the conclusion that jumps out is this: It's fine for you to listen to their stories, but they don't wanna hear yours. Their stories matter, yours don't. They don't generally think you can be the same things that the majority group can be.

And that's why I give more support to any female or racial minority character, assuming that character meets the standard of worthiness. Because I think that female gamers and black gamers and whoever else deserve the chance to see themselves (that aspect of themselves) included in the game.

Unfortunately, Nintendo barely has any non-white, non-Asian characters, and I don't think any of them are important enough to deserve being in Smash so that hasn't come up. I think that's an issue they need to work on.

Anyway, I know that's it hard to see it from the other perspective when you're part of the majority/dominant group. But it would be nice if people would try to see it from the other side, and not dismiss the perspective of members of the minority/non-dominant groups as invalid and tell them how they should feel, which I've seen from a lot of people when these issues come up (not necessarily the person I'm quoting, which I included for context).

Something that's always bothered me is that with Animal Crossing a game that represents you does not allow you to chose skin tone. In a game that represents YOU thats just not right. Cross Dressing is a good step for the series which was more of a gameplay thing because it leaves options open to everyone (look at what happened when x/y limited options to gender) This is kinda a good reason to include mii's because i don't see Minorities such as black Hispanic lgbt, etc getting in otherwise. In fact the only minority character i can even think of is Anthony Higgs and Shantae but thats about it.

Its a shame that their isn't a character for everyone in smash.

On a different note if Pac-Man is included would Mrs. Pac man be a good alternate skin? Pacman doesn't make much noise besides waka waka waka.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Something that's always bothered me is that with Animal Crossing a game that represents you does not allow you to chose skin tone. In a game that represents YOU thats just not right. Cross Dressing is a good step for the series which was more of a gameplay thing because it leaves options open to everyone (look at what happened when x/y limited options to gender) This is kinda a good reason to include mii's because i don't see Minorities such as black Hispanic lgbt, etc getting in otherwise. In fact the only minority character i can even think of is Anthony Higgs and Shantae but thats about it.

Its a shame that their isn't a character for everyone in smash.

On a different note if Pac-Man is included would Mrs. Pac man be a good alternate skin? Pacman doesn't make much noise besides waka waka waka.

You can actually tan in Animal Crossing. It's better than nothing.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Something that's always bothered me is that with Animal Crossing a game that represents you does not allow you to chose skin tone. In a game that represents YOU thats just not right. Cross Dressing is a good step for the series which was more of a gameplay thing because it leaves options open to everyone (look at what happened when x/y limited options to gender) This is kinda a good reason to include mii's because i don't see Minorities such as black Hispanic lgbt, etc getting in otherwise. In fact the only minority character i can even think of is Anthony Higgs and Shantae but thats about it.

Its a shame that their isn't a character for everyone in smash.

On a different note if Pac-Man is included would Mrs. Pac man be a good alternate skin? Pacman doesn't make much noise besides waka waka waka.

I am 100% sure that gonna change in the next one.

No sure how they'll implement it into the questioning in the beginning.

Maybe Rover will get a Bat Companion who's all like "Oh no, What's wrong with my Mirror? Um, excuse me, is this working right?"
And then he hands you the Mirror and you get full custom options for your face.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Makes me think though, in Animal Crossing the initial customization is decided through idle chit-chat with Rover or Kap'n. How would they do that for skin tone without it being hella awkward?

 

[Cpt.]

I would like Smash so have more female characters. It doesn't by any means need more female characters. SSB only needs characters that are important enough to get in. Regardless of gender.

I do like the fact that characters like villager and fit have both genders.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Fine. I agree Nintendo is not more at fault than any other gaming company for underrepresting female video game characters. It's still a problem for the industry as a whole, Nintendo is still a part of the game industry and is as open to criticism as any other company continues to market to specific demographic that no longer exclusively consumes their products.

Saying "It's the norm" does not excuse the individual, nor does it deserve to continue being the norm.

I agree in part, I just did not want Nintendo to be singled out.
To be more fair, 'female gaming' is considered... well, I dont want to say new, at this point, but more new than it was in history.
Nintendo has added many females over that time; be it from avatars for mainstay games (Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit), by making old games more playable (such as Peach games), or by bringing on new games (Cooking Mama, Savvy stylist).

I could make the same argument that butch-girls are fine to add, yet flamboyant guys are bashed by the entire community and are not usually intentional, or flat out not allowed (such as in Tomodachi Life). Ah well.



My other points about race and only all-star females were both said.

 

[Koopaul]

I don't think it's Smash's responsibility to have more females. But it is Nintendo's responsibility to create more female characters in general, and make them important or popular. THEN you can add them into Smash.

Then again. I also believe in the creator's choice to add or do whatever they want with their creations. It's not as simple as demanding it must be done.

Change is a slow process, but that's how it always is unless you live under a dictatorship.

 

[Erimir]

But it is Nintendo's responsibility to create more female characters in general, and make them important or popular. THEN you can add them into Smash.

But adding them to Smash will make them more important and/or popular.

I would say, however, that they shouldn't add female characters that aren't that important in themselves if they don't intend to expand upon that character. Because that's just adding a female token for the sake of a female, making it just a numbers game, not trying to improve female representation.

 

[Koopaul]

Well in my opinion in order to make it into Smash Bros there has to be something special about you. Either you were a unique fighter, a popular character, or someone historically important.

So like I said before, Nintendo should make more unique, popular, and historically important females. See I want Barbara the Bat as a playable character not because she's female, but because she a total bad-ass! Punk-Rocker with attitude? Yes please! On top of that, she's the star of three very successful games in Japan!

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

I think a problem that can easily be fixed by anyone in the games industry is the trope-y portrayal of female characters. If you watch Anita Sarkeesian's videos you'll recall she talked about how girls can be identified by wearing bows and being/wearing pink. It is also normative for female characters to be "the girl," in the midst of "the strong guy" or "the speedy guy" and such. For example, Pom Pom from Super Mario 3D Land and World. How do you know she's a girl? Pink and a bow. Wonder Pink? Wearing pink, sporting a bratty, teenage attitude, in the midst of Wonder Green, Wonder Red, Wonder Blue, all males and such. Ms. Pac-Man? Pink bow.

So far in Smash, and I'm not saying it's a real problem, but all the female Smash characters revealed either are 1. sporting a dress (Peach, Zelda, Rosalina) 2. have a male-looking outfit/costume (Sheik and Varia Suit Samus) 3. Have a male counterpart (Wii Fit Trainer, Villager) or 4. Have a partner (Ice Climbers, Rosalina).

Sooner or later, I would love to see a female character coming from Nintendo and then into Smash Bros that doesn't bear any of these tropey-y characteristics of one. I'm all for including Palutena and Medusa for sure, and possibly Anna or Robin, but this is a direction I would love for Nintendo to step into.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So far in Smash, and I'm not saying it's a real problem, but all the female Smash characters revealed either are 1. sporting a dress (Peach, Zelda, Rosalina) 2. have a male-looking outfit/costume (Sheik and Varia Suit Samus) 3. Have a male counterpart (Wii Fit Trainer, Villager) or 4. Have a partner (Ice Climbers, Rosalina).

There's something that rubs me REALLY wrong about that statement but I need time to articulate it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

all the female Smash characters revealed either are 1. sporting a dress (Peach, Zelda, Rosalina) 2. have a male-looking outfit/costume (Sheik and Varia Suit Samus)

I'm confused by this. They cannot be wearing overt female clothing (a dress), but if they have something that you, specifically, associate with being male-garb, it isnt okay? What is a fair costume?
Sheik, also, has a giant braid, which is usually considered to be female. I think the assertion that any clothing needs to be one way or the other is in itself contrary to the inclusion of more female characters; they have to be represented by a strict series of female standards? I can understand the bow argument, but if we are getting too far in the other direction, the one that scorns historical garb because it seems 'male,' I think we are getting to an extreme spot of defining female as only one thing, which is just as bad as the bow argument to dictate.