Smash bros needs more girls? Why

[Big Rig Randy]

Lip is not obscure garbage character in the least. She's the lead protagonist of Nintendo's long running puzzle franchise.

Thank you for proving my point

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

"Newsflash. It's 2013. Women and girls play video games."

Not super smash bros

 

[masterluigi1]

The amount of girls that play fighting video games or consider themselves "hardcore" gamers, is extremely small

Which is why "Nintendo have expressed interest in having more females play their consoles."

 

[TopTierPichu]

If any girl played video games, she'd get made fun of relentlessly, doesn't matter if it's pre-school, grade school, high school, or college. Therefore no actual girls play video games because come on, would you sleep with a chick who follows Smash Bros?

tl;dr, only home schooled girls play video games.

what, as a gamer I prefer girls that play games like a hobby because that stuff is my hobby too. . . what a weird comment
also there are plenty of female characters from nintendo games its just that implimenting them would be difficult because they are often shadowed by their male counter parts from the same series, i mean look at the Mother series for example

 

[masterluigi1]

"Newsflash. It's 2013. Women and girls play video games."

Not super smash bros

I have met plenty of girls that play smash bros at my college's tournaments.

 

[jaytalks]

Thank you for proving my point

she's less obscure than ROB, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game and Watch.

"Newsflash. It's 2013. Women and girls play video games."

Not super smash bros

The idea is that you want to change that. In any market, you always need to be expanding your audience, because that indicates growth.

The question should not be "Do women play Smash?" Because if they did, you wouldnt need to convince them to buy the game. "Does Smash have the principles to appeal to female gamers?" Yes. Everybody loves playing Smash. It's the ultimate party game regardless of gender. Now you need to convince them to buy it. How you go about that might differ, but its simply smart business strategy to expand your product.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I have met plenty of girls that play smash bros at my college's tournaments.

Exactly. And that makes up .00000067% of the people who bought the game

 

[ToothiestAura]

Smash Bros isn't the right place to market to female gamers

why do you say that? SSB is a very popular hardcore game.

The amount of girls that play fighting video games or consider themselves "hardcore" gamers, is extremely small

Wow, what? Have you even played Smash? Literally the simplest fighting game on the market. No move requires more than a directional input and a button. If you are trying to cater to female gamers, or inexperienced gamers as you seem to be implying this is the perfect game.

If any girl played video games, she'd get made fun of relentlessly, doesn't matter if it's pre-school, grade school, high school, or college. Therefore no actual girls play video games because come on, would you sleep with a chick who follows Smash Bros?

tl;dr, only home schooled girls play video games.

This failed at being funny on any level, except maybe to you.

 

[Big Rig Randy]

she's less obscure than ROB, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game and Watch.

Using characters that should have never been included into the game is a great way to prove your point.

what, as a gamer I prefer girls that play games like a hobby because that stuff is my hobby too. . . what a weird comment

yeah as internet friends or something.

I'm not going to be discussing character rosters with my next hookup. Her passions should include yoga and eating disorders, not Lip's smash chances.

 

[N3ON]

This conversation is pretty funny.

 

[jaytalks]

Using characters that should have never been included into the game is a great way to prove your point.

well as long as you clarified your positions. if you dont like any of the characters, there's no chance we will ever agree.

The culture towards gamers has changed greatly over the last 10 years. There were 200 million home consoles sold in the 6th video game generation. 240 million home consoles sold in the 7th video game generation. I'm pretty sure some of those were women and I'm pretty sure they didnt get made fun for it.

 

[Vann Accessible]

You know, I've been a large supporter of Palutena. She always seemed like the gimmie for the second Kid Icarus rep. But I realized something. Palutena wouldn't really bring anything to Smash Bros as a character that we don't already have. Another magic wielding chick in a dress. Rosalina and Zelda both seem to fit that bill. Sure she'd have a staff and green hair and she's got the quirky personality, but other than that... too similar. Plus, she really talks too much.

However.

Medusa would definitely bring something new to the roster: a female villain. We could definitely use one. She's got history on her side, as she is the original Kid Icarus villain from the NES days, and as far as I can recall, she's the only female Nintendo villain besides Wendy Koopa that isn't just a doppelganger (IE Dark Samus, and Ridley would be a superior 2nd Metroid rep anyway). For moveset, she's definitely got potential with her scepter, teleporting, laser eyes, snakes, magic projectiles, flight, and that transforming into a big floating cyclops head thing.

And visually, she'd be so amazing in HD. Look at her.

I'd be fine with either Palutena or Medusa is the roster, but think I might now prefer Snake Head.

 

[masterluigi1]

Wow, what? Have you even played Smash? Literally the simplest fighting game on the market. No move requires more than a directional input and a button. If you are trying to cater to female gamers, or inexperienced gamers as you seem to be implying this is the perfect game.

When I say it's hardcore I mean that it's a game that many people play for countless hours. It can also be played casually and it does appeal to female gamers.
but there really is no such thing as a hardcore or casual "game" in the literal sense, it's only about the gamer.

 

[IsmaR]

This conversation is pretty funny.

What conversation? All I see are people overdosing on bait and estrogen.

 

[Anomilus]

Palutena wouldn't really bring anything to Smash Bros as a character that we don't already have. Another magic wielding chick in a dress. Rosalina and Zelda both seem to fit that bill. Sure she'd have a staff and green hair and she's got the quirky personality, but other than that... too similar.

Do you really think you should enter that train of thought, not long after Rosalina's reveal and complete banishment of the idea that she'd be even remotely similar to Peach? Additionally she'd be in the hands of the same guy who made Uprising, so there really are practically no creative limits that would keep Palutena from being totally unique and dissimilar to Zelda and Rosalina. The only definite similarities are some sort of supernatural ability. It wouldn't be the first time an archetype had a great presence in the roster: Link, Toon Link, Marth, Ike, Meta Knight. Get it?

Plus, she really talks too much.

Female.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I personally like having female characters in games. The one female character that I would really like to have would be Micaiah from Fire Emblem. Only because she has an interesting background and would add a magic user from the FE series and not another sword one (But she is still a main character) so it wouldn't be like remove Ike for a side person.

 

[SchAlternate]

Her passions should include yoga and eating disorders, not Lip's smash chances.

Don't you think you're taking this whole Lip subject a little bit too personal?

 

[Kamiko]

Their inclusion would make the game better because female players (who according to statistics are 47% female in gaming) would identify with more of the characters. Having more females in the game increases the likelihood for individuals to buy the game, since they are more likely to have those characters they identify with.

The first thing a gamer looks to when playing a fighting game is the character roster and it helps to have a character that everyone Identifies with..

I never understood this sort of thinking. Since when is gender the only thing people can identify with? And since when can people only identify with things they already have?

 

[Louie G.]

I'm probably pretty late, but I think Rosalina and Sakurai's recent statement about females helps the chances of more females characters.

"Newsflash. It's 2013. Women and girls play video games."

Not super smash bros

MorbidAltruism.

 

[jaytalks]

I never understood this sort of thinking. Since when is gender the only thing people can identify with? And since when can people only identify with things they already have?

I never said gender is the only thing individuals can identify with. I mentioned that one of my favorite characters (and that identify with if that wasn't clear) was Lucina, and my favorite fighting game character of all time is Ibuki. Having men, women, robots, monsters, etc in Smash benefits everyone, not just women.

edit: btw I am male if that wasnt clear.

 

[Kamiko]

I never said gender is the only thing individuals can identify with.

Maybe not, but that's clearly what people think will attract more women. But that really has nothing to do with who likes what. It's just a bonus for those who are already interested. Plenty of people use characters they have nothing in common with anyway.

To be clear, none of this is directed at you specifically. Just people in general.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'm a guy and I'm all for adding girl characters. Some of them are friggin awesome compared to some of these lame guys like Ness, Pit, or Marth. It's not just about having characters for girls to use, it's about having cool characters, some of which are cool, and most of the time attractive. (Micaiah, Palutena, Etc.)

 

[jaytalks]

Maybe not, but that's clearly what people think will attract more women. But that really has nothing to do with who likes what. It's just a bonus for those who are already interested. Plenty of people use characters they have nothing in common with anyway.

To be clear, none of this is directed at you specifically. Just people in general.

I think having more women will give them the possibility to enjoy the game more. The more you enjoy the game, the more you might like to buy it. I just remember being a kid and playing Mario Kart. Every time I would play with girls, it would usually be a mad dash to who could pick Peach first. I imagine it would be very frustrating for me if the only male character I could pick was Mario, and the rest of the roster was like Peach, Daisy, Rosalina etc. That's how I look at it. I would hate for girls to restricted in their options, especially when there are so many worthy candidates that are female. You can use characters that you don't anything in common with, as I have mentioned. I use Ibuki in Street Fighter 4, and I am not japanese, female, or a ninja. But the strength of her design in part comes from the fact she is female, along with the fact is that thematically she is basically a ninja version of Spider-Man.

 

[Kamiko]

I think having more women will give them the possibility to enjoy the game more. The more you enjoy the game, the more you might like to buy it. I just remember being a kid and playing Mario Kart. Every time I would play with girls, it would usually be a mad dash to who could pick Peach first. I imagine it would be very frustrating for me if the only male character I could pick was Mario, and the rest of the roster was like Peach, Daisy, Rosalina etc. That's how I look at it. I would hate for girls to restricted in their options, especially when there are so many worthy candidates that are female. You can use characters that you don't anything in common with, as I have mentioned. I use Ibuki in Street Fighter 4, and I am not japanese, female, or a ninja. But the strength of her design in part comes from the fact she is female, along with the fact is that thematically she is basically a ninja version of Spider-Man.

I don't know, I've never known anyone who's bought a game just for that. As shown in your own example, people play as the opposite gender all the time. There are a bunch of fighters with an all female cast that are still played primarily by male gamers. Anyone not buying Smash Bros. probably just isn't interested in that kind of game.

In your Mario Kart example, kids are generally taught by society to think and act that way. But for cases where that doesn't apply, well that's what I just don't get. If there was one terrible, dull character, and all the great, interesting, well developed characters are the opposite gender, would people really flock to the boring one?

 

[IsmaR]

My sister wouldn't bother with this game/series if Kirby/Pikachu weren't in, not random females.

Additionally she plays as Yoshi and Toad in Mario Kart.

 

[masterluigi1]

I never understood this sort of thinking. Since when is gender the only thing people can identify with? And since when can people only identify with things they already have?

I didn't say it was the ONLY thing a female can Identify with.

My sister wouldn't bother with this game/series if Kirby/Pikachu weren't in, not random females.

Additionally she plays as Yoshi and Toad in Mario Kart.

Ok and that is your sister personally. she has characters that she identifies with but I could say the same thing about my sister that she only plays with peach or zelda.

there are exeptions but overall alot of females like playing with female characters.

 

[Elunairis]

All you guys care about is appearance... How shallow.

 

[Kamiko]

I didn't say it was the ONLY thing a female can Identify with.

I know, like I said above that wasn't really meant to say you did, just that that's the general idea getting tossed around, and that I really don't get how it has anything more or less to do with identity than any other trait. Nor do I get how that would be a major reason anyone would play the game. If I had to identify with a character to enjoy something, I'd have a rather dull life.

 

[loganhogan]

You know, I've been a large supporter of Palutena. She always seemed like the gimmie for the second Kid Icarus rep. But I realized something. Palutena wouldn't really bring anything to Smash Bros as a character that we don't already have. Another magic wielding chick in a dress. Rosalina and Zelda both seem to fit that bill. Sure she'd have a staff and green hair and she's got the quirky personality, but other than that... too similar. Plus, she really talks too much.

However.

Medusa would definitely bring something new to the roster: a female villain. We could definitely use one. She's got history on her side, as she is the original Kid Icarus villain from the NES days, and as far as I can recall, she's the only female Nintendo villain besides Wendy Koopa that isn't just a doppelganger (IE Dark Samus, and Ridley would be a superior 2nd Metroid rep anyway). For moveset, she's definitely got potential with her scepter, teleporting, laser eyes, snakes, magic projectiles, flight, and that transforming into a big floating cyclops head thing.

Medusa also wears a dress and has magic abilities. If we're cutting characters short by comparing them to other characters already in the roster there many others that have it the same or worse than Palutena. To name a few we can use your example on K. Rool, Dixie, Chrom, Roy, Lucina, Isaac, Shulk, Little Mac, and pass it on them.

 

[TopTierPichu]

All you guys care about is appearance... How shallow.

umm no, i want cool characters and nintendo has a lot of cool females that could fit the bill

 

[Richard Nixon]

I'm all for female representation in gaming, but considering this is a crossover and pulls its fighters from other franchises, I don't really think that burden is on Smash Bros. All Sakurai does is select iconic and recognizeable characters from Nintendo games. Female characters in general are less prevalent than male ones, let alone notable female characters who play big roles in their games. It's rare to see a female protagonist, and female villains aren't much more common either. At best, female characters usually play a supporting role, which already puts their priority below more important male characters when it comes to the Smash roster. And choosing a character "just because she's a girl" is never gonna be a good idea. So as it stands the roster's gender ratio is pretty skewed, but I don't really blame Smash Bros for that. It's an issue with video games as a whole - Smash just unfortunately reflects it.

Also, it's painfully simpleminded to think a player will only pick a character they directly relate to, especially over something as irrelevant as gender. I know plenty of guys who main female characters and girls who main male characters. That argument's pretty moot.

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

I'm all for female representation in gaming, but considering this is a crossover and pulls its fighters from other franchises, I don't really think that burden is on Smash Bros. All Sakurai does is select iconic and recognizeable characters from Nintendo games. Female characters in general are less prevalent than male ones, let alone notable female characters who play big roles in their games. It's rare to see a female protagonist, and female villains aren't much more common either. At best, female characters usually play a supporting role, which already puts their priority below more important male characters when it comes to the Smash roster. And choosing a character "just because she's a girl" is never gonna be a good idea. So as it stands the roster's gender ratio is pretty skewed, but I don't really blame Smash Bros for that. It's an issue with video games as a whole - Smash just unfortunately reflects it.

Also, it's painfully simpleminded to think a player will only pick a character they directly relate to, especially over something as irrelevant as gender. I know plenty of guys who main female characters and girls who main male characters. That argument's pretty moot.

I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Richard Nixon! Although I'm hopeful that Smash 4 will have a greater opportunity for more female characters, because all of the main protagonists are in, so support characters have a better shot.

 

[IsmaR]

Obvious **** is obvious.

 

[Hong]

I also want to add that all of Nintendo's senior design staff (particularly Nintendo EAD) consist of older Japanese men. To them, being female is a significant defining trait for a character. You would only have to read any interview that brings up the subject of gender with Shigeru Miyamoto or Yoshio Sakamoto to understand how out-of-touch they are.

Look at the new Pikmin explorers.

You will immediately notice one of them in particular has a space suit different from the others.

Not only does it have a skirt on the outside of the suit, but it's pink, as it is the defining colour of the character. You can see much more of this in Nintendo's DNA. Peach and Wendy Koopa are designed to be "female", and use grossly exaggerated and out-of-touch tropes for the character designs and personality. Wonder Pink, while a character created under the discretion of Hideki Kamiya and not Nintendo's usual design staff, stands as a manifestation of the way they think.

Of course, none of this is knocking on their ability to make good games. In addition, if you look outside of Nintendo EAD, you have Intelligent Systems and Monolith Soft, who both develop and write games with good female characters.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Nintendo needs a game like Hyperdimension Neptunia or Project Diva so that they could have a franchise that is mainly about female character(s). I mean they already have Metriod, but that started at the SNES, they need a newer franchise to appeal to more female gamers. Heck, since I never played Metriod, and since I was about 6 when Melee came out, I assumed that Samus was a dude. They need a female hero (like Micaiah) who can stand up for herself and fight bad guys. That's why I like all the characters from Hyperdimension Neptunia. Their a bunch of funny girls with good personalities that can kick butt. Nintendo needs that, and needs to add it in Smash as well. This leads me to wonder why Neptune wasn't in Playstation Allstars.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I also want to add that all of Nintendo's senior design staff (particularly Nintendo EAD) consist of older Japanese men. To them, being female is a significant defining trait for a character. You would only have to read any interview that brings up the subject of gender with Shigeru Miyamoto or Yoshio Sakamoto to understand how out-of-touch they are.

Look at the new Pikmin explorers.

You will immediately notice one of them in particular has a space suit different from the others.

Not only does it have a skirt on the outside of the suit, but it's pink, as it is the defining colour of the character. You can see much more of this in Nintendo's DNA. Peach and Wendy Koopa are designed to be "female", and use grossly exaggerated and out-of-touch tropes for the character designs and personality. Wonder Pink, while a character created under the discretion of Hideki Kamiya and not Nintendo's usual design staff, stands as a manifestation of the way they think.

Of course, none of this is knocking on their ability to make good games. In addition, if you look outside of Nintendo EAD, you have Intelligent Systems and Monolith Soft, who both develop and write games with good female characters.

While I see the point your trying to make, you have to remember that Nintendo EAD also made incredibly strong and compelling female characters as well.

Like and among many others. Sure there are lots of examples of female being a character trait but there are several examples of strong female characters as well.

Brawl Zelda icon isn't working for some reason.

Nintendo needs a game like Hyperdimension Neptunia or Project Diva so that they could have a franchise that is mainly about female character(s).

Hyperdimension Neptunia?

Attracting female gamers?

What?

That series has fan service up the wazoo! Heck, half of their characters are unrealistically busty! I'm not sure that would attract the average female gamer. Hell, I'm willing to bet the series has an almost entirely male fanbase.

Just because characters are female doesn't mean females will like them.

Do you like all male characters?


Project Diva is a horse of a different color. Hatsune Miku is an idol there. A celebrity. That alone will attract people. Regardless of gender.

They need a female hero (like Micaiah) who can stand up for herself and fight bad guys.

Michiah constantly relies on Sothe for protection and canonically would be dead without him in the opening cutscene.

Fire Emblem has lots of good, strong, female characters but Michiah is not one I would call strong.

Don't get me wrong. She's a good character and I like her, but she's just not a strong female character.

Lyn, Erika, Lucina, etc. would have been much better examples.

That's why I like all the characters from Hyperdimension Neptunia. Their a bunch of funny girls with good personalities that can kick butt. Nintendo needs that, and needs to add it in Smash as well.

We already have some of those....

Every female character in smash currently (barring Wii Fit Trainer) can say that.

All girls with good personalities (WFT has none, the others do though).

All can kick butt (both in smash and out of it).

Samus isn't really funny, but that's not necessary for a good character. There's a place for seriousness too. So, I'm discounting funny.

To further add to the point, most of the popular female characters can say this as well.

Palutena, Dixie Kong, Lyn, Lucina, Robin (kinda), Impa (dare I say it) etc. can all say this.

Nintendo has plenty of strong females. They're all there. You just need to look.

As to the shortage in smash? It's because many of them haven't earned it. And it's not right to give a character a boost just because they're female. It's not gender equality, which is what we should be striving for. You need to put female characters through the same hoops as male ones. That's equality.

This leads me to wonder why Neptune wasn't in Playstation Allstars.

1. It's obscure as heck.
2. Japan-centric game probably won't be noticed by the western game developers.
3. It's obscure as heck.
4. Didn't wanna pay for the advertisement. And PSABR was ALL about the advertisement.
5. It's obscure as heck.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I think having more women will give them the possibility to enjoy the game more. The more you enjoy the game, the more you might like to buy it. I just remember being a kid and playing Mario Kart. Every time I would play with girls, it would usually be a mad dash to who could pick Peach first. I imagine it would be very frustrating for me if the only male character I could pick was Mario, and the rest of the roster was like Peach, Daisy, Rosalina etc. That's how I look at it. I would hate for girls to restricted in their options, especially when there are so many worthy candidates that are female. .

That's just cause Peach is straight up Baller.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Wow, it's like sociology class in here.

I'll just point out not that 25% of the revealed cast is female now. I doubt it'll stay at such a (relatively) high ratio but it's cool.

 

[Koopaul]

So yeah the logic that having more female characters will make the game more appealing to female gamers is stupid. Gamers like the game because it's a good game, regardless of gender.

Despite what I said above, I do like the idea of having more female characters simply because it makes the roster more diverse. Have I expressed before how much I like the idea of a really diverse roster of characters of all kinds? Yeah I have.

 

[3Bismyname]

This leads me to wonder why Neptune wasn't in Playstation Allstars.

PSASBR is made by a western development company. and frankly Hyperdimensions games arent positively received over here. at best they were given scores around 50%. in addition they are a 3rd party company and would be considered a waste on a relatively unpopular franchise. but no i would rather not see Nintendo make a game like Neptunia. its fine to have a game with a predominately female cast, but i find the way women are portrayed, in Neptunia specifically, insulting to the gender. skantly clad, over proportioned, but for some reason look like their maybe 13. they may have strong personalities but even those are common female tropes common to an anime crowd.