Social Smash 4 Social Thread 5.0: ITT - ANYTHING CAN CHANGE! Including the page we end at.

[FalKoopa]

Tch. Assuming I will be here in what? 7 years?

By then, I'll be close to my 30's...

Not sure if I want to be around here by then.

Oh, you don't have to actively take part. Just look at Chronobound. He posts only occasionally. Something like that.

I'll be here for the ride though. Will probably never go into competitive Smash, but it will be fun telling kids about the tears we cried when Mega Man was confirmed, the salt explosion when Ridley was a stage hazard, or the vitriol over Dr. Mario, Dark Pit and Duck Hunt Dog.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Now I'm kinda curious as to who the oldest (And still active) person on SmashBoards is.
[Oldest in terms of actual age, not account age]

We can't find out because that user is likely dead.

 

[DougX]

Look, I'll be frank, if Dark Pit (by some logic) does get into the next game, I at least hope he's vastly de-cloned (rather than being the glorified alt that he was in Smash 4).

I'd like if part of (EDIT: or the main part of) his potentially de-cloned moveset involved whacking people with his staff. I'd find that greatly amusing.

 

[TJ-Works]

Oh, you don't have to actively take part. Just look at Chronobound. He posts only occasionally. Something like that.

I'll be here for the ride though. Will probably never go into competitive Smash, but it will be fun telling kids about the tears we cried when Mega Man was confirmed, the salt explosion when Ridley was a stage hazard, or the vitriol over Dr. Mario, Dark Pit and Duck Hunt Dog.

Interesting.

And where will you find these... k-i-d-s?

 

[Substitution]

It'd probably be the same logic that got him in this game. He's just that easy to implement. And wouldn't de-cloning him take time from a full character? Like everybody thought he did when we saw him with the staff in the concept art.

Sure, "being easy to make" was the reason he got in, but it doesn't have to keep being that reason. You can have him be his own character. Heck, all things considered the Doc and Lucina were most likely made around the same time, and look at them. The former could be considered his own character. Almost.

And according to Luigi, Falco, and every other clone that gained their own moveset (or at least, part), apparently it's easier than you think. Also, I don't see why just because he's a clone they can't take the time to make him unique. He's still a character after all.

 

[Space Stranger]

I will ensure that I stay away from Smash 5 speculation until the actual game is released.

 

[FalKoopa]

Interesting.

And where will you find these... k-i-d-s?

The internet, of course.

The know-it-all youngsters on which the Speculation Engine runs.

 

[Blargg888]

Oh, you don't have to actively take part. Just look at Chronobound. He posts only occasionally. Something like that.

I'll be here for the ride though. Will probably never go into competitive Smash, but it will be fun telling kids about the tears we cried when Mega Man was confirmed, the salt explosion when Ridley was a stage hazard, or the vitriol over Dr. Mario, Dark Pit and Duck Hunt Dog.

There was vitriol over Duck Hunt?
I don't remember that.

In terms of reactions to characters though, I think I'd say that aside from Megaman, Little Mac, Robin, and WFT garnered the best reactions.

 

[Space Stranger]

There was vitriol over Duck Hunt?
I don't remember that.

In terms of reactions to characters though, I think I'd say that aside from Megaman, Little Mac, Robin, and WFT garnered the best reactions.

Funny, because I read a lot of disgust over 's inclusion with her being a "waste of a slot" and "from a niche series".

 

[FalKoopa]

There was vitriol over Duck Hunt?
I don't remember that.

In terms of reactions to characters though, I think I'd say that aside from Megaman, Little Mac, Robin, and WFT garnered the best reactions.

You never have visited the Leaks Group, have you?

Quite a number of people were furious that we got another completely unexpected character after Wii Fit Trainer.

EDIT: I keep mistaking you for Soul. with that avatar.

 

[RamOne]

There was vitriol over Duck Hunt?
I don't remember that.

Of course, because it took [their favorite character that's not playable]'s spot.

 

[Substitution]

I don't know what I'll do. On one hand, that's a while away; but on the other, I do find the idea of tearing into new blood amusing.

There was vitriol over Duck Hunt?
I don't remember that.

I do. Mostly because of its infamy.

 

[aldelaro5]

Ah, yes. My plan was successful...

I feel like indulging in some schadenfreude from time to time, you see.

I say some trollish comment and all hell breaks loose. Rather wondrous display of human nature.

.....ok, let me just tell you why I can't possibly do the same even if I wanted to.

Supporting Paper Mario as you already know as becomming a sort of passion, I basically love to do it so much that doing it in itself makes me happy.

Detracting ANY characters however that are valid (so, at least originating from video games and at least one game released in nintendo platforms) for no logical reasons or logically flawed reasons, this is something I HATE with passion. I basically ENJOY to hate this practice because seeing it and worse, doing it not only makes me mad, but also ashamed if I'm ever involved.

What happened is while I was doing stuff with the passion I love to do, I'm forced to experience the passion I hate, BUT because this is invvolved with the passion I LOVE.....it makes me EVEN MORE ashamed and mad.

You kinda have to see the perspective that I was actually very upset when I saw these flaming. So much that it actually became one reason to do a private group, I wanted to be sure no other persons would expereince this thing....I jsut don't want it to happen.

So, I just wanted to be sure you weren't actually serious despite doubting it, but I guess it's fine. Luckilly, it has calmed down, but I hope no supporters of any characters would live this....it's just sad. it doesn't help both the supporters and it's even worst for those targetted.....

Well, yeah. I stay out of flame wars.

It beceomes especially difficult, when you have, say, K. Rool supporters hating on Roy. I like both of them, and I really hate having to pick a side. It simply ends up alienating me. (Makes me wonder how I became a moderator in the first place. )

Why even thinking there's 2 sides in the first place?

That's a false choice, we can logically prove that both events can happen and even worse, we can even prove logically that both are independant each other.

What I'm trying to say is choose which you like, but please, don't do it on the dislike of others. You should want any charcaters because you want it, not because you don't want another....that's actually a weird logic honestly.....

 

[Frostwraith]

Top 3 roster complaints in Smash 4:
1. The presence of Wii Fit Trainer, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit and Duck Hunt Duo
2. No Ridley
3. Cuts like Wolf, Lucas, Mewtwo and Ice Climbers

Granted, DLC and the Smash ballot mitigated #1 and #3 a lot.

 

[Yoshi-hara]

Dr. Who.

NO, MY JOKE!!!

 

[LancerStaff]

Sure, "being easy to make" was the reason he got in, but it doesn't have to keep being that reason. You can have him be his own character. Heck, all things considered the Doc and Lucina were most likely made around the same time, and look at them. The former could be considered his own character. Almost.

And according to Luigi, Falco, and every other clone that gained their own moveset (or at least, part), apparently it's easier than you think. Also, I don't see why just because he's a clone they can't take the time to make him unique. He's still a character after all.

Somehow I doubt Doc was going to be a costume... It's more likely that he was the first clone chosen because he's a veteran. Notice how he's the most different?

The problem being that clones and their originals often run into inferiority/superiority problems. Not once have we had it where the two are significantly different and still equal without a random glitch balancing things out. At least Dark Pit has hope for his inferiority to be patched with buffs to his arrows' priority. Doc, Falco, and Lucina sure don't. They're basically worse versions of the originals by design.

 

[Substitution]

Top 3 roster complaints in Smash 4:
1. The presence of Wii Fit Trainer, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit and Duck Hunt Duo
2. No Ridley
3. Cuts like Wolf, Lucas, Mewtwo and Ice Climbers

Granted, DLC and the Smash ballot mitigated #1 and #3 a lot.

I can agree with three being suppressed (thank God), but number one will always be around. Sure, the anger for them has died down a bit, but you'll still find it.

Somehow I doubt Doc was going to be a costume... It's more likely that he was the first clone chosen because he's a veteran. Notice how he's the most different?

The problem being that clones and their originals often run into inferiority/superiority problems. Not once have we had it where the two are significantly different and still equal without a random glitch balancing things out. At least Dark Pit has hope for his inferiority to be patched with buffs to his arrows' priority. Doc, Falco, and Lucina sure don't. They're basically worse versions of the originals by design.

But at one point he was. And by the looks of things, it could very much have been late in development (and mind you, his attacks are only slightly altered versions of Mario's and Luigi's attacks. That's a lot of time saved).

Also, what does being inferior/superior have to do with not being able to be de-cloned? Are you implying that because they're not as good they can't be unique? I don't see the connection here.

 

[---]

Pokémon - Nintendo Dream Interview

In the latest issue of the Japanese magazine, Nintendo Dream, Ken Sugimori was asked about the lack of the much-requested Mega Evolution, Mega Flygon. In it, he stated that while they had worked on concepts for Mega Flygon in Pokémon X & Y and again in Pokémon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, they could never get a good design to come together for it.

While there's always the next game, though to be honest, Mega Flygon would have to look really bad compared to some other Mega Evolutions... >_>

 

[EmceeEspio]

I take it back, it's going to be a great day. I dodged multiple bullets from getting in serious trouble for small mistakes.

I keep mistaking this place for the Character thread today. Lack of insanity must be it.

 

[Reiga]

I don't really care about Mega-Flygon.
The only Megas I need are Mawile and Diancie

Seriously, I love they're Mega Evolutions to bits.

 

[Blargg888]

Funny, because I read a lot of disgust over 's inclusion with her being a "waste of a slot" and "from a niche series".

When I say "best" and "Reaction" those definitions actually differ depending on which character we're talking about.
Villager's reaction was mostly tame, some people liked, some didn't, but it wasn't very extreme.
Megaman's reaction was almost undoubtedly the best one in terms of raw excitement. You could hear the scream and the heart attacks from miles away.
WFT's was best in terms of shock and confusion, nobody really knew what to think.
Rosalina's was also relatively tame, though I'm sure Rosalina's fans were really happy, especially with how much she was being called "An unlikely choice".
Little Mac's was one of the best (in terms of positivity) in the west, but in the east it had a lot of negativity.
Greninja's was one of the best in terms of bait and switch/unexpected result. It was really positive though, most reactions I saw were, "IT'S NOT MEWTWO, BUT I'M OKAY WITH THIS."
Reactions to Miis were VERY black and white from what I've seen. It was either LOVE IT or HATE IT. Though I think everyone agrees that the Mii Trailer was just incredible.
Palutena reactions were actually pretty underwheming. Not much happened with that.
Pac-Man reactions were emostly very excited and intrigued, although those were pretty underwhelming too. Although that's probably because of the strange way he was revealed.
Robin reactions mostly consisted of "Gematsu's dead!" which got real old real fast, I barely saw anyone who was actually excited for the character him/herself, even in the Robin thread, there were tons of "Gematsu's dead!" comments. That said, it was one of the best reactions for me personally, because literally minutes after watching the trailer, I got pushed over the edge of two cliffs, and both bought FE: Awakening (My first FE game) and joined SmashBoards.
The Shulk, Bowser Jr., and DH reactions were just so underwhelming it's not even funny. That stupid leak kinda ruined people's reactions to those 3. Although the Shulk thread still seemed pretty excited when he was actually revealed in his trailer. (Because apparently they thought he was a Marth clone, and the trailer dispelled those fears.)
DP was so negative, no need to go into that.
and Lucina was actually kinda glanced over from what I saw, mostly due to Robin being the star of the show.

 

[Substitution]

I'm still waiting for Mega Yanmega. With a name like that you have to make it a thing at some point.

 

[T1T0]

I don't really care about Mega-Flygon.
The only Megas I need are Mawile and Diancie

Seriously, I love they're Mega Evolutions to bits.

I bred and hatched two or three shiny Mawile because I loved the Mega evolution

 

[RamOne]

I'm still waiting for Mega Yanmega. With a name like that you have to make it a thing at some point.

Don't forget Meganium.

 

[Reiga]

Don't forget Meganium.

And of course the name they'd give to Dragonite's Mega Stone.

 

[Blargg888]

You never have visited the Leaks Group, have you?

Quite a number of people were furious that we got another completely unexpected character after Wii Fit Trainer.

EDIT: I keep mistaking you for Soul. with that avatar.

I changed it literally right before you posted this.
Now you can mistake me for @Pacack

(Also, I have visited the leaks group, I don't remember much DH hate.)

 

[T1T0]

And of course the name they'd give to Dragonite's Mega Stone.

I've thought about that a bit haha

 

[EmceeEspio]

I have some favorite pokemon as well, notably:

Lucario (obviously)
Meowth
Scizor
Mewtwo
Serperior
Rayquazza
Flygon

And a few others.

 

[LancerStaff]

But at one point he was. And by the looks of things, it could very much have been late in development (and mind you, his attacks are only slightly altered versions of Mario's and Luigi's attacks. That's a lot of time saved).

Also, what does being inferior/superior have to do with not being able to be de-cloned? Are you implying that because they're not as good they can't be unique? I don't see the connection here.

Sakurai talked about Lucina being a costume, and Lucina only. Dark Pit is pretty easy to see and basically confirmed, Doc not so much after an interview about him after Brawl.

It's wasted effort. You can put all this time into making all of their moves slightly different, but in the end people will just pick whoever they think is better rather then using them equally. When you have separate characters being better or worse at least you have people choosing them because of their gimmicks. Pit and Dark Pit have an interesting relationship specifically because of how similar they are. Main Pit, get Pittwo for free! He has some matchups where he's better, and could have more with better arrows. Yes, one will always be better then the other. But why would you ever just use one? Giving him differences like making his Fair a single hit or turning his Dair into a stall-then-fall would just unbalance the two for the sake of uniqueness. Which isn't really all that unique because we have moves like this already.

 

[Blargg888]

Sakurai talked about Lucina being a costume, and Lucina only. Dark Pit is pretty easy to see and basically confirmed, Doc not so much after an interview about him after Brawl.

It's wasted effort. You can put all this time into making all of their moves slightly different, but in the end people will just pick whoever they think is better rather then using them equally. When you have separate characters being better or worse at least you have people choosing them because of their gimmicks. Pit and Dark Pit have an interesting relationship specifically because of how similar they are. Main Pit, get Pittwo for free! He has some matchups where he's better, and could have more with better arrows. Yes, one will always be better then the other. But why would you ever just use one? Giving him differences like making his Fair a single hit or turning his Dair into a stall-then-fall would just unbalance the two for the sake of uniqueness. Which isn't really all that unique because we have moves like this already.

But that doesn't always apply, seeing as how I main Dark Pit, but don't main Pit.
Kinda like how I main Lucina but not Marth.

 

[Substitution]

Sakurai talked about Lucina being a costume, and Lucina only. Dark Pit is pretty easy to see and basically confirmed, Doc not so much after an interview about him after Brawl.

It's wasted effort. You can put all this time into making all of their moves slightly different, but in the end people will just pick whoever they think is better rather then using them equally. When you have separate characters being better or worse at least you have people choosing them because of their gimmicks. Pit and Dark Pit have an interesting relationship specifically because of how similar they are. Main Pit, get Pittwo for free! He has some matchups where he's better, and could have more with better arrows. Yes, one will always be better then the other. But why would you ever just use one? Giving him differences like making his Fair a single hit or turning his Dair into a stall-then-fall would just unbalance the two for the sake of uniqueness. Which isn't really all that unique because we have moves like this already.

First and foremost, http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-the-clone-characters-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/.

There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics. Since their functionality had differences, forms were separated from each other. However, it was vital that this didn’t increase the required man-hours. Some relative tuning was sufficient as it wasn’t necessary to create balancing from scratch.

Second, so what you're basically telling me is that it'd be bad if he's decloned because he'd be different from Pit? And that in of itself bad because then one would be inferior/superior? And even then we won't be able to make DP unique because there's other moves like them out there (even though it would still make him unique from Pit all things considered).

 

[LancerStaff]

But that doesn't always apply, seeing as how I main Dark Pit, but don't main Pit.
Kinda like how I main Lucina but not Marth.

Keyword being "think." You probably use those two because they're perceived to be easier to use, correct? You think you are better off using those two instead of the originals. (Not that I'm implying they're completely worse.)

If not, then you're playing as them because of the actual character, who are going to exist no matter what.

 

[aldelaro5]

First and foremost, http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-the-clone-characters-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/.


Second, so what you're basically telling me is that it'd be bad if he's decloned because he'd be different from Pit? And that in of itself bad because then one would be inferior/superior? And even then we won't be able to make DP unique because there's other moves like them out there (even though it would still make him unique from Pit all things considered).

Hey, I actually was never aware of that quote!

That one is interesting.....

 

[Space Stranger]

>Street Fighter and King of Fighters (just to name a few) are filled with clones
>Smash fans are the loudest to whine about clones
Top kek.

 

[Blargg888]

Keyword being "think." You probably use those two because they're perceived to be easier to use, correct? You think you are better off using those two instead of the originals. (Not that I'm implying they're completely worse.)

If not, then you're playing as them because of the actual character, who are going to exist no matter what.

No, neither actually. I use Dark Pit because I don't like Pit's moveset.
It's the same for Lucina over Marth.

 

[FalKoopa]

>Street Fighter and King of Fighters (just to name a few) are filled with clones
>Smash fans are the loudest to whine about clones
Top kek.

We obviously have standards to maintain.

 

[LancerStaff]

First and foremost, http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-the-clone-characters-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/.


Second, so what you're basically telling me is that it'd be bad if he's decloned because he'd be different from Pit? And that in of itself bad because then one would be inferior/superior? And even then we won't be able to make DP unique because there's other moves like them out there (even though it would still make him unique from Pit all things considered).

I stand corrected.

Let's say they added a character. This character doesn't have anything unique to them, all his moves are similar to others. What was the point of including this character? He doesn't boast anything unique, and he's similar to others in general playstyle. He could be freaking Ridley and he'd be the absolute most worthless waste of effort just because there's no reason to pick him unless you like the character itself. Whereas this zero: www.gunvolt.com Would be a more valuable addition simply because he would bring a new gimmick.

Same applies to clones. Why recreate a ton of moves for virtually no result when you could keep them the same and end up with more?

No, neither actually. I use Dark Pit because I don't like Pit's moveset.
It's the same for Lucina over Marth.

Lucina has no good advantages and edgy only has the one you'd want to use over Pit's. Not sure what you're trying to pull. Can you, right now, tell me what Dark Pit has over Pit?

 

[Substitution]

I stand corrected.

Let's say they added a character. This character doesn't have anything unique to them, all his moves are similar to others. What was the point of including this character? He doesn't boast anything unique, and he's similar to others in general playstyle. He could be freaking Ridley and he'd be the absolute most worthless waste of effort just because there's no reason to pick him unless you like the character itself. Whereas this zero: www.gunvolt.com Would be a more valuable addition simply because he would bring a new gimmick.

Same applies to clones. Why recreate a ton of moves for virtually no result when you could keep them the same and end up with more?

Wait, so originally it was bad for Dark Pit to be de-cloned, because he wouldn't be like Pit. But now you're telling me that it's bad to be the same as another character? Pick one or the other.
Also, just because you think a character is useless doesn't mean others think the same way.

Lucina has no good advantages and edgy only has the one you'd want to use over Pit's. Not sure what you're trying to pull. Can you, right now, tell me what Dark Pit has over Pit?

That people can like characters and don't have to appease to your standards?

 

[Blargg888]

I stand corrected.

Let's say they added a character. This character doesn't have anything unique to them, all his moves are similar to others. What was the point of including this character? He doesn't boast anything unique, and he's similar to others in general playstyle. He could be freaking Ridley and he'd be the absolute most worthless waste of effort just because there's no reason to pick him unless you like the character itself. Whereas this zero: www.gunvolt.com Would be a more valuable addition simply because he would bring a new gimmick.

Same applies to clones. Why recreate a ton of moves for virtually no result when you could keep them the same and end up with more?



Lucina has no good advantages and edgy only has the one you'd want to use over Pit's. Not sure what you're trying to pull. Can you, right now, tell me what Dark Pit has over Pit?

Lucina doesn't have a tipper, and Dark Pit's arrows go very straight and can't turn. He also has the electroshock arm.

That's what I like about them.

 

[LancerStaff]

Wait, so originally it was bad for Dark Pit to be de-cloned, because he wouldn't be like Pit. But now you're telling me that it's bad to be the same as another character? Pick one or the other.
Also, just because you think a character is useless doesn't mean others think the same way.

It's bad to make him like somebody else because that requires effort. Making him like Pit does not. Simple.

Lucina doesn't have a tipper, and Dark Pit's arrows go very straight and can't turn. He also has the electroshock arm.

That's what I like about them.

So you think you're better off with them because of their playstyle. And Dark Pit's arrows do turn...