Smash 4 Custom Moves being Legalized?

[Squaddle]

If we start banning custom moves for being OP, I think we should start banning defaults that are too strong as well.

I'm not saying OP moves should be banned, I'm saying if there were anything game-breaking about some loadouts (like mii fighter's uppercut), then I'd be more concerned about using them in tournaments, something which for the most part I haven't seen.

Unless you're fine 8% KOs

 

[digiholic]

I'm not saying OP moves should be banned, I'm saying if there were anything game-breaking about some loadouts (like mii fighter's uppercut), then I'd be more concerned about using them in tournaments, something which for the most part I haven't seen.

Unless you're fine 8% KOs

I wasn't really trying to put an argument in your mouth, it's just that your post made me think of something I wanted to say.

In the case of the One-Inch Punch, that's a consideration for a ban because of a bug, not because of power. The One-Inch Punch itself isn't too big of a problem, since it's independent of percentage, it doesn't make for any early kills on anyone but Jigglypuff. Yes, this makes Mii Brawler a hard counter to Jiggs, but Marth was a hard counter to Ness and Lucas in Brawl, and Fox is a hard counter to 80% of Melee's cast, so I don't think that's really ban worthy.

 

[Thinkaman]

The good news about Piston-Punch is that comparatively, it isn't even that good of a move. I'd never even consider it for a second against anyone but Jigglypuff--and even then I'd only consider it!



As for Zelda, I actually think she is probably top 5 in 4v4, no joke. Literally everything about her entire moveset thrives the more people and activity there is.

 

[Octagon]

So, many of us have been playing predominantly with customs for the last 4 months. Here's some facts, for better or for worse:

• Yes, most characters have 1 or 2 optimal movesets for most or all matchups.
• Customs are on average worse than defaults.
  • I prefer the default option to either custom 60% of the time.
• Thankfully, no custom is broken.
  • The very best customs options are not as dominating as some default options.
  • Still, Kong Cyclone and Timber Counter can be a big threat to players who don't understand them.
• Customs definitely benefit balance, but do not cause anyone to leapfrog Sheik or Diddy.

For comparison, here is my current opinions on character tiers with and without customs:
Naturally, any tier list is highly opinionated, so anyone will find things they disagree with. The point here is the big picture.

1v1, no customs, ordered within each level:








1v1, customs, ordered within each level--each level relative to the above:








Moves up 4 tiers relative to a no-customs list:
Moves up 2 tiers relative to a no-customs list:
Moves up 1 tier relative to a no-customs list:

Note: We shouldn't discuss general tier opinions in this thread; Character Competitive Impressions is the place for that. I'm just copying this to try and give people with little custom moves experience an idea of what to expect.

K well if customs don't contribute much to the game, why is there so much discussion of customs being allowed at big tournaments? It's cause it all comes down to play styles. It doesn't matter if you think customs are worse than the default most of the time cause that's what you think of customs. I doubt you main with every character, have tried out every single characters customs for each of their moves, and have figured out which ones are the best, when at the end of the day it all comes down to play style.

 

[Thinkaman]

K well if customs don't contribute much to the game, why is there so much discussion of customs being allowed at big tournaments? It's cause it all comes down to play styles. It doesn't matter if you think customs are worse than the default most of the time cause that's what you think of customs. I doubt you main with every character, have tried out every single characters customs for each of their moves, and have figured out which ones are the best, when at the end of the day it all comes down to play style.

I feel like there's some miscommunication here.

My previous post, like the majority of my posts in the last 2 days, was in resolute support of customs.

 

[Raijinken]

I wasn't really trying to put an argument in your mouth, it's just that your post made me think of something I wanted to say.

In the case of the One-Inch Punch, that's a consideration for a ban because of a bug, not because of power. The One-Inch Punch itself isn't too big of a problem, since it's independent of percentage, it doesn't make for any early kills on anyone but Jigglypuff. Yes, this makes Mii Brawler a hard counter to Jiggs, but Marth was a hard counter to Ness and Lucas in Brawl, and Fox is a hard counter to 80% of Melee's cast, so I don't think that's really ban worthy.

There are a lot of bugs that result in unfavorable matchups. While I myself think "game-breaking" bugs (or at least matchup-breaking bugs) should be banworthy, I know a few who would say "that's the way the cookie crumbles". But it's yet another tricky scenario. What determines that it's a bug and not intended? Footstool infinites, for instance.