Smash 4 Controller Lag Comparison

[Deleted member]

The Gamecube Controller is too clunky, confusing, and sensitive for me.

The original Classic Controller is where it's at.

 

[WinterShorts]

Tearbear in SoCal is high on the PR and he uses a Wiimote + Nunchuck. And if you were referring to Wiimote by itself, sorry for wasting ur time

Wiimote by itself. Still kind of interesting he uses the numchuck.

 

[~Burst~]

There is no way they all have equal output time, he has to be doing something . . . off
unless nintendo sat there and locked inputs of the controllers to be equal which would be the dumbest thing I have every heard of.

Using anything except a GC controller is dumb.

wth would you know? You play a game where game cube is your only option lmao. Pretty much any controller other than wii mote is better than gamecube. 2 ****ty triggers that reduce reaction time, only 1 shoulder button, terribly sized buttons.Its horrible.
Obviously if you're used to something you will keep using it and thats fine but don't sit here and make it seem like it has amazing architecture when it doesn't lol.

 

[ReturningFall]

This is awesome.

But it reminds me of when the GCN adapters ran out in the first couple months and people were buying mayflash adapters instead.

Now the drivers have been reverse-engineered and we see the mayflash adapters are very slightly inferior (not enough to matter, but not quite the same as the Nintendo ones), I'm curious if there's any other quantifiable differences. Time to put another debate to rest?

I'm betting no change. The consistent 7 frame lag suggests any lag is some other internal process independent of the hardware. But if the setup is available...

 

[FireBall Stars]

If I remember correctly, 7 frames is the input lag namco usually uses to make the online gameplay easier to work with and close as possible to the offline game.

They usually couple it with buffering to make it "affect the game less".

But man, seven frames, that's a lot of input lag. I guess that's what makes the game feel clunky on the controls, at least it's consistent unlike Brawl's input lag.

 

[Iceweasel]

To anyone wondering why he got more lag by changing to a "lagless" CRT, here's why: To say that a TV is lagless, (or so nearly lagless to not even bother measuring it, as with CRTs) doesn't tell you anything about what happens to the signal before it goes to the TV. If a system natively outputs digital signals, but also has hardware and code to output an analog signal, then guess what, the digital signal is going to leave the system faster. Some of the newer flatscreens can now receive, process, and output an image in less than 1 frame. If you do your research and get a good gaming TV, input lag is nearly nonexistent. Thus, depending on how long signal conversion takes, it may actually be better for you to play your games on a good flatscreen than a CRT.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

3DS player here. Despite people's initial feelings about it, it is quite a good controller option for the game, it takes some time to adapt since at first it felt that the grab and shield buttons were too far away but it works like a charm now that I've mastered it. Perseverance and dedication pays off.

 

[InfinityAlex]

There is no way they all have equal output time, he has to be doing something . . . off
unless nintendo sat there and locked inputs of the controllers to be equal which would be the dumbest thing I have every heard of.

I think it's likely that there is some input lag between controllers, but the difference is negligible that it comes out at less than a frame. But hey, what do I know?

 

[Blackrider213]

Is there any difference in latency between the Gamepad display and a TV? In my experience for casual settings, the Gamepad display has less latency compared to a TV.

 

[InfinityAlex]

Is there any difference in latency between the Gamepad display and a TV? In my experience for casual settings, the Gamepad display has less latency compared to a TV.

This will likely be due to your TV settings. Things like post processing and unsuitable TV modes will cause lag on the TV compared to the Gamepad.

 

[Zairuen]

GameCube all the way. I started with Melee, and the GameCube controller is like a mold. So comfortable.

GameCube 4 Lyfe

 

[FloriCA]

Unfortunately, on my precious Wave Bird GC Controller, both L and R are broken.

So it is the Wii U Pro. Besides the GC Controller, one of the best Controllers I've ever used. I still scratch my head on how the amazing battery life is possible.

 

[Kink-Link5]

It's astonishing people are willing to pay 80 dollars to play this game, let alone an additional $24 for all the DLC.

Using anything except a GC controller is dumb.

How's that 7 frames of lag treating you?

 

[recme]

Using anything except a GC controller is dumb.

lol gg wp

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

wth would you know? You play a game where game cube is your only option lmao. Pretty much any controller other than wii mote is better than gamecube. 2 ****ty triggers that reduce reaction time, only 1 shoulder button, terribly sized buttons.Its horrible.
Obviously if you're used to something you will keep using it and thats fine but don't sit here and make it seem like it has amazing architecture when it doesn't lol.

The GC controller is the best dude. I can't think of any other controller that would allow me to play melee at a high level. The button placement is perfect, the c-stick is amazing, the control stick is very easy to use for tilts / shield drops... the GC controller does it all.

I guess smash 4 doesn't require fast / complex inputs so you could use any controller you like. I would probably still use the GC controller if I Played that game anyway because I'm used to it.

 

[BuTTNutz]

#7frames!!!!!!

 

[DigitalAtom6]

Thanks, I actually didn't know this, but is it still connect to the system? Because I've seen people turn them off then throw them in their backpacks which after awhile a button gets pressed.

I've personally tested it. If you press any button that are not the triggers, the controller will activate and automatically reconnect with the system, unless you put it into something or somewhere that will interfere with the signal. Examples of what can disrupt the signal are simple distance, interference from other wireless devices or microwaves or dense materials like brick, thick glass or metal. This is why it's best to put the controller away when you're done playing. Either you put it around something soft to prevent the buttons getting pressed or put it so it's surrounded by other stuff and won't bump into anything.
The other way is by putting into a metal box. Metal interferes with the signal greatly and if it's the right size, the chance of any buttons getting pressed are nearly nil. You might want to ''furnish'' the box to prevent scratches if you care about that.
If you can't find a metal box, I recommend making one that is the right size out of wood. It's easy to work with and a square shape at the right size will prevent any of the top buttons getting pressed by accident.

Doing this isn't completely necessary IMO, but it's the best way to prevent accidental reconnections that I can think of.

 

[Donkey_Inferno]

Hori Battle Pad anyone..? No..? Just me..? ;_;

 

[DairunCates]

So...there's deliberate input lag on a wired controller.

1) why
2) why
3) how- sorry why

No, there's lag because of basic physics. The 7 frames you are seeing is the time it takes the signal to pass to the TV, the game to process the input, and then output to the television. Keep in mind, this is 7 frames filmed at 120 fps (so double the FPS of the game itself). Meaning that the input lag for the controllers is 3.5 frames in a 60 FPS game (slightly more than a 20th of a second). Keep in mind that the average human median reaction time is 215 milliseconds or about a fifth of a second. No human being can even process that level of lag.

Truth be told, if you took this down to the millisecond level and shot with high speed cameras, you might see a couple of milliseconds of advantage here for the wired controller since electricity DOES move faster than a wireless signal, but at such a short distance, it's near instantaneous anyway. Of course, that kind of difference is so far out of the realm of human perception that there's no point in arguing over it. Ever.

So, yeah. Computers take time to process and your TV takes time to output. It all adds up to about a 20th of a second, but it's literally too fast for you to notice.

 

[tbtechwiz]

So smash 4 continued with brawl having "potentially" random input lag on every command? Wonderful.

so now he must use controller homebrew hacks to use the same controllers on melee and run the test again because i think this statement keeps a debate hole still open lol

 

[PinkRanger]

Before I could get my hands on an adapter, I used the Wii U gamepad. But now, I use a Gamecube Wavebird.

 

[FireBall Stars]

No, there's lag because of basic physics. The 7 frames you are seeing is the time it takes the signal to pass to the TV, the game to process the input, and then output to the television. Keep in mind, this is 7 frames filmed at 120 fps (so double the FPS of the game itself). Meaning that the input lag for the controllers is 3.5 frames in a 60 FPS game (slightly more than a 20th of a second). Keep in mind that the average human median reaction time is 215 milliseconds or about a fifth of a second. No human being can even process that level of lag.

[...]

I'm pretty sure he's using a 120 fps camera to be completely certain but is counting 2 frames as 1 to give an in-game reference, so those 7 frames are indeed 7 frames.

Still, being 7 frames or half of that is too slow to be considered because of physics. 64, Melee and PM all have a 1 frame input lag and Brawl had a more input lag programmed in but it varied randomly, but I'm not mistaken it did not get bigger than 4 frames for wireless controllers. Consoles read input commands much faster than a single frame, it is up to the game when it will execute that command.

The input lag in smash 4 is deliberately programmed in, to do a few things: Put all controllers on equal ground and make the offline game more similar to the average online game, that is something Namco has been making with Soul Calibur and Tekken for a while.

 

[smashbro29]

Should have compared Mayflash adapter to Nintendo's but alright this is cool.

 

[Kneutronic]

The Wiimote and Nunchuk is what I use the most.

 

[lordvaati]

The input lag in smash 4 is deliberately programmed in, to do a few things: Put all controllers on equal ground and make the offline game more similar to the average online game, that is something Namco has been making with Soul Calibur and Tekken for a while.

I'm surpriesed how many people can't seem to have grasped this fact yet.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Game Pad > All

 

[Blackrider213]

This will likely be due to your TV settings. Things like post processing and unsuitable TV modes will cause lag on the TV compared to the Gamepad.

So then, is there a setup in which there would be no difference in latency compared to the Gamepad and TV? Is it also possible to have a setup in which the Gamepad has more latency than a TV?

 

[Giampstoise]

Personally, i prefer the gamecube controller, but i also really like the 3ds. However.... nobody should ever be forced to use the wii remote without the nunchuck... it's just.... no.

 

[PidgeyTheory]

It's hilarious how people will argue over the silliest things.

 

[NownZy]

I play smash on the 3ds because I don't have a wii U

Same. It sucks but I ain't got the money to drop on a Wii U just to play smash

 

[Iceweasel]

Same. It sucks but I ain't got the money to drop on a Wii U just to play smash

Have you played Bayonetta yet? The Wii U version is the best one. And Bayo 2 is alright, I guess. And there's... ummm... the new Zelda might be good?

Joking aside, it's worth checking Craigslist for a used Wii U, if only for Smash and Bayo 1. And if your computer is a potato that can't run Dolphin, it might be nice to not need a CRT to hook up your Wii to for when you want to play that. All five of the good games on Wii.

Make sure it has the gamepad though, or you won't be able to start your game, if the game will even display on your TV.

 

[NownZy]

Have you played Bayonetta yet? The Wii U version is the best one. And Bayo 2 is alright, I guess. And there's... ummm... the new Zelda might be good?

Joking aside, it's worth checking Craigslist for a used Wii U, if only for Smash and Bayo 1. And if your computer is a potato that can't run Dolphin, it might be nice to not need a CRT to hook up your Wii to for when you want to play that. All five of the good games on Wii.

Make sure it has the gamepad though, or you won't be able to start your game, if the game will even display on your TV.

Well I have an original wii and I play melee on it but I could sell that to help fund a wii u. It looks like a very nice console.