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Slopes, how do they work?

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Okay, so I thought I would take some time to try and solve a mystery that's been bugging me for awhile. Sometimes when you try and wavedash on a slope, Nana doesn't cooperate and instead chooses to spaz out and jump into the air.

I do not know what strange magical code makes her do this, but I know more or less *when* it happens. Any time you try and wavedash UP a slope there is a risk of Nana deciding just to jump instead. It doesn't happen if you try and wavedash down a slope, only up.

It appears to be mitigated somewhat depending on the angle of your wavedash and the timing of your airdodge; delaying the airdodge almost always keeps her from going crazy. Certain slopes are worse than others. Typically, the more steep the slope, the less leeway you get when it comes to this.

Sloped areas include:

--The many hills and ramps of the PS transformations.
--The sides of Yoshi's Story; these are fairly lenient but they still get in your way.
--Half of Brinstar :/
--The third distinct segment of Rainbow Cruise's circuit, and the left part of the ship. When the ship starts sinking you can't WD going left OR right because the angle is so steep, but usually you're off the ship by then.
--The two ramps on DK64 (these are AWFUL, you practically can't WD on this stage at all unless you're going towards the center of the level)
--The stationary segments of Mute City are actually tilted slightly; for the first two I believe they're tilted to the right, so you can WD right without a problem but if you go left Nana starts jumping. For the third, it's the opposite.
--Pretty much all of Corneria.

*

Slopes, part 2: As it turns out, sloping upwards is not always your enemy. In the rare situation that you grab on a slope, facing DOWNWARDS, and try to have Nana run forward to do something like reverse d-throw d-air, she will NOT execute the aerial. The moment she jumps, you will lose control and cannot input any attacks for her. So if you were facing downwards on one of DK64's slopes and tried to do reverse d-throw d-air, it wouldn't work; she'd just jump in the air and do nothing. Happens in a lot of areas.

I'm pretty sure the counterpick stage info isn't useful to most of you since I'm the only IC too dumb to change characters on those levels, but it's worth keeping in mind especially on PS and YS.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
My only guess about why this happens is that it's really easy to do long, fast wavedashes on slanted surfaces and because of the six frame delay between Popo and Nana, Popo may be far enough away from Nana for her to break free from Popo's control before reacting to the airdodge input.

Regardless of what causes this, it is incredibly obnoxious. It's the main reason I avoid Brinstar like the plague.
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Distance doesn't seem to have much to do with it; I've tried perfectly timed wavedashes where I didn't go all that far, and sometimes we broke, sometimes we didn't. I've also tried going backwards up the slope so that Nana is behind at the start of it to cancel that, and it didn't do anything.

I'm actually alright with Brinstar. Played Darkrain 2 times there in tournament and actually won one of them o_O. Beat him twice on RC as well.

The counterpick levels actually have one major advantage for the ICs; if you can somehow get grabs, there are handoff opportunities EVERYWHERE. Brinstar is chock full of handoff spots, including the breakable bit in the middle, though it seems heavily skewed towards b-throw. That's okay with me though, since you can jump up to the platforms and combo off it against floaties when you know it's coming, or just CG with it against fast fallers :) Winning on Brinstar is an amazing feeling, but it gives you TONS of chances to do crazy combos which is even better.

Mute City, likewise; so many platforms for the other guy to get trapped on, little FD means you handoff all day, and if you've got the positional advantage during the traveling sections you get free grabs into serious hurtful death. And the floor saves Nana a lot! You just can't really WD left for 2 thirds of the stage lol.
 

Smasher89

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,936
Location
Sweden
Isn't the slopes facing upwards(KJ64) easier to get a long WD on?
I also think that there should be some chaingrab that can possibly work better(or create openings for interesting tricks).
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
It is easier because you can just go horizontal and get a good dash. It sucks because Nana decides to jump in the air.

If the opponent smash DIs onto the slope (say you're CG'ing upwards) then it will remove all the d-air stun and let them act immediately. Maybe there's something else interesting we can do though.

On DK64 if you manage a sync'ed grab on the moving platforms (you know, once every thirty matches you play there) you can charge u-smash and wait for the platform to go really high. Though right now, all I want to do is do some crazy looping cross-platform chaingrab using those rotating platforms. It would be amazing.
 
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