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Slightly nervous....

Ogre_Deity_Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
1,445
Location
Central New York
Okay. This has been talked about before, but never on a straight up scale (or none I could find really...)

Speed v.s Power.

Now lets look back at Melee, because that's the basis of everyone's Smash nowadays. I've heard this from both Tourney players and Casuals. Speed wins, OKAY? I'm not going to argue that claim, because it is, in fact true.

(But it's not the character, it's the player!)
(STFU! GO AWAY! By your freaking logic, Bowser should be winning tourneys! HE'S NOT!!!)


Sorry. Anywho, this is extremely apparent. Not only can the speedy characters interrupt any and all attacks, right? This is apparently going to be solved by "Super Armor"

But what of dodging? The attacks maybe in part uninterruptable, but their speed will still be lacking and any player worth their weight with a fast character will just end up dodging and totally punish the player for even making a move!

Any ideas on how Sakurai plans to address this if he does at all?

Will I ever shut up?

Is this thread lame because I'm half asleep, coming off a caffiene high and it's past midnight?

(Hint, the third answer is yes.)

EDIT: WHOOPS! Sorry, I meant to add on the execptions to the Speed wins rule. Pichu and Pikachu. Thanks for reminding me people. The main question I'm trying to ask though is, "Is Super Armor enough to let the slow characters stay on par with the Quick characters?"

Thanks Tony_
 

Jackal478

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
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Mechanicsville, VA
Well in Brawl you can tell that the heavier characters will be Stronger and have extra Defenses.

...while the light characters may be a tad weaker.
 

Artc

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
45
I'm not sure if super armor will make all heavy characters the new god tier, but it will have some uses. Example: fox wants to drill shine bowser, he short hops and d-airs, bower sees this and starts an f-smash. The drill hits bowser, but bowser doesn't flinch. Either fox gets hit before he lands, during the shine, or not at all, depending on the speed of the f-smash. Super armor might not reverse the tiers, but it will give the heavy characters a boost.
 

BigRick

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Montreal, Canada AKA Real City brrrrrrrrapp!
"Is Super Armor enough to let the slow characters stay on par with the Quick characters?"

No.

Smash is a fighter/platformer hybrid... as long as the quick characters aren't badly nerfed (can't combo, can't kill for ****, die like *****es), overall mobility will always be the most dominating stat in 1v1s because there is plenty of room to move around.

Super Armor will greatly increase a power char's effectiveness in teams and FFAs, where there is less room to run.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
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Messages
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This is why stage size is so important. On smaller stages, the heavier characters will be extremely dangerous. As for the main question at hand, the answer is a big fat DEPENDS. It all depends on how good the superarmor is, how tough the fast characters are, etc. etc. etc. We just will not know until the game comes out.
 

Katy Parry

The Only Zelda in Indiana
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NNID
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Brawl IS NOT going to be the same as Melee. Your just basing stuff off Melee logic.

Sora wants to improve the characters, such as Zelda for instance. She's a powerful, slow character. WRONG. She was slow, and had 1 powerful move. Now, imagine if they did the this:

Made her fsmash & usmash one powerful hit.

Made her have less lag.

BOOM! SHE SUPER CRAZY CHARACTAH NOW!

Well, that's what I hope happens...
 

Hydde

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If the super armor is really good.... then i see the powehouse characters having a key advantage.

Fox, sheik, falco which are the combo players for excellence...all of them depend in some way or another, of "pokes" to set up players in melee combat. Yeah sure, they have incredible grab game, but lets say that they fight against a good bowser with super armor, which knows how to take blows when needed and how to dodge when needed, and skillled in shffling .....

the quick players will have to think twice before going rampant against the bowser player, because we all know that bowser doesnt need much to KO, the problem before was his lag and speed... but with this kind if inmunity, you simply cannot go crazy against bowseer.

and this helps a lot on the mindgame department.
 

Kentalish

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Messages
1,427
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Qualicum Beach, BC
for shining i dont think thats going to be in anymore because there using a different engine.


dont listen to tier lists make games not fun play who u want to play
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
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It's OK to avoid tier lists. Just don't expect to rise in the competitive community without understanding it at least.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
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i own fox and falco all the time with my young link it depends whos playing
I own Fox and Falco all the time with my Young Link as well. I am a Young Link main, so it is bound to happen. However, once you start playing really good players, you quickly realize that Young Link does not hold up so well. I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that you have not traveled very far for big tournaments (and big = big names, not large number of entrants).
 

Pluvia's other account

Smash Master
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No Internet?!?
People, look at the size of Bowser!!



He's HUGE!

Seriously!



Now look at how much reach he has!




Due to his size and reach, I'm guessing he's slightly more powerful in Brawl. Mix this with the fact that he doesn't flinch when you hit him with some attacks, I think that speed just might not be enough to win at Brawl.


Bowser for God Tier!
 

NES n00b

Smash Master
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EDIT: WHOOPS! Sorry, I meant to add on the execptions to the Speed wins rule. Pichu and Pikachu. Thanks for reminding me people. The main question I'm trying to ask though is, "Is Super Armor enough to let the slow characters stay on par with the Quick characters?"
Link is better than Young Link, generally. Samus is slower than alot of characters, but is still one of the best. Ness and Pikachu is faster than other characters, but are still very crappy (especially Ness). Peach is slower in dashing speed (FC makes her alot faster close range but you know what I mean), but beats alot of characters.

There is more to this game than speed. Usually, the best characters are speedy characters that are given way too powerful of moves (Fox's moves are way too powerful for how fast he is along with Falcon) or given ways of shutting alot of characters games down (Marth's range and speed and Falco's SHL and Dair/Nair to shine makes it hard to approach or counter effectively).

Edit: He probably won't fix it. =(
 

Mr. Ocax

Smash Journeyman
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Sep 18, 2007
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Link is better than Young Link, generally. Samus is slower than alot of characters, but is still one of the best. Ness and Pikachu is faster than other characters, but are still very crappy (especially Ness). Peach is slower in dashing speed (FC makes her alot faster close range but you know what I mean), but beats alot of characters.

There is more to this game than speed. Usually, the best characters are speedy characters that are given way too powerful of moves (Fox's moves are way too powerful for how fast he is along with Falcon) or given ways of shutting alot of characters games down (Marth's range and speed and Falco's SHL and Dair/Nair to shine makes it hard to approach or counter effectively).

Edit: He probably won't fix it. =(
Yeah thats what is so wrong about the game. It's not that they're too fast. It's that they are fast as **** AND incredibly powerful. It's just the definition of "cheap."
 

Spellman

Smash Ace
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There are generally six different areas that are important in Smash Bros.

-Speed
-Defense
-Power
-Weight
-Reach
-Size
 

Oskurito

Smash Lord
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"Is Super Armor enough to let the slow characters stay on par with the Quick characters?"

No.

Smash is a fighter/platformer hybrid... as long as the quick characters aren't badly nerfed (can't combo, can't kill for ****, die like *****es), overall mobility will always be the most dominating stat in 1v1s because there is plenty of room to move around.

Super Armor will greatly increase a power char's effectiveness in teams and FFAs, where there is less room to run.
He owned this thread
 
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