Sigma Busters: Official Discussion Thread

[Kirbeh]

I've been thinking randomly, if the WIkkan's biggest delicacy is a type of squash, and pumpkins are also squash, does that make them technically cannibals, or is the squad okay to eat since it's non-sentient?

Kinda random, but no, they wouldn't be because they're not eating their own kind.

Is a salmon a cannibal for eating an anchovy? No. They're both fish but they belong to different species.

In the case of your Wikkan species there's an even bigger divide since it's comparing a fruit to a sentient species. Also bear in mind that fruits are a means of spreading a plants seeds and aren't the plant proper.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kinda random, but no, they wouldn't be because they're not eating their own kind.

Is a salmon a cannibal for eating an anchovy? No. They're both fish but they belong to different species.

In the case of your Wikkan species there's an even bigger divide since it's comparing a fruit to a sentient species. Also bear in mind that fruits are a means of spreading a plants seeds and aren't the plant proper.

Just a random thought I had, no worries. People seem to be really receptive of Aremi's kit, so I think we have a keeper.

 

[Glubbfubb]

So Kirbeh do you think Aremi has a balanced recovery. She has a reliable horizontal recovery in Ember Dance, a solid air stalling tool in both her down air, Big Bang, and Firestorm if you want to spend meter, and a risky but flexible Up Special. That is on top of the tether recovery she has in her Vine Tether. Keeping in mind the lack of ledges, do you think this set of recovery tools are not OP?

 

[Kirbeh]

So Kirbeh do you think Aremi has a balanced recovery. She has a reliable horizontal recovery in Ember Dance, a solid air stalling tool in both her down air, Big Bang, and Firestorm if you want to spend meter, and a risky but flexible Up Special. That is on top of the tether recovery she has in her Vine Tether. Keeping in mind the lack of ledges, do you think this set of recovery tools are not OP?

I would say her recovery options are above average, but it balances out with the fact that she's on the lighter side and not particularly strong.

Also, what's her actual jab combo supposed to be like? I assume Jabs 1 and 2 are a standard one-two, short, left/right jabs.

Should Jab 3 be something like Mario's Up Tilt? Ryu's Heavy Up Tilt? Little Mac Up Smash? What are we going for here?

 

[Glubbfubb]

I would say her recovery options are above average, but it balances out with the fact that she's on the lighter side and not particularly strong.

Also, what's her actual jab combo supposed to be like? I assume Jabs 1 and 2 are a standard one-two, short, left/right jabs.

Should Jab 3 be something like Mario's Up Tilt? Ryu's Heavy Up Tilt? Little Mac Up Smash? What are we going for here?

I feel going in the Little Mac inspiration for her jabs would work, complete with a 3rd jab based off Little Mac's up smash, though obviously less potent, but the purple flames would add some flare, no pun intended.

Also just so you know, Little Mac is mainly portrayed as a left-hander and Mario a right-hander, don't know if that is important to your design process but its a unique design element both fighters have.

 

[Kirbeh]

I feel going in the Little Mac inspiration for her jabs would work, complete with a 3rd jab based off Little Mac's up smash, though obviously less potent, but the purple flames would add some flare, no pun intended.

Also just so you know, Little Mac is mainly portrayed as a left-hander and Mario a right-hander, don't know if that is important to your design process but its a unique design element both fighters have.

If you have a dominant hand in mind for each character, we could try to implement it for when the characters are facing right, but since we're working with sprites it's all going to get mirrored anyway.

As for the punches themselves, I was actually thinking Mario (or perhaps the Mii Brawler) would be a better base line given her body type and overall gameplay inspiration.

 

[Glubbfubb]

If you have a dominant hand in mind for each character, we could try to implement it for when the characters are facing right, but since we're working with sprites it's all going to get mirrored anyway.

As for the punches themselves, I was actually thinking Mario (or perhaps the Mii Brawler) would be a better base line given her body type and overall gameplay inspiration.

True, I just wanted to share this tidbit since I didn't know if it mattered to you. I also don't mind what character you pick to base this attack on since it's just a 1-2 jab ending in an uppercut, as long as said uppercut is cloaked in purple flames, the rest of the attack is up to you. Depending on how you style these animations to the right side, it will determine the character's dominant hand. Also, should Aremi have a rapid jab, of the two characters you mentioned to model the jab after, Mario and Little Mac, Little Mac has a rapid jab, but Mario doesn't.

 

[Kirbeh]

True, I just wanted to share this tidbit since I didn't know if it mattered to you. I also don't mind what character you pick to base this attack on since it's just a 1-2 jab ending in an uppercut, as long as said uppercut is cloaked in purple flames, the rest of the attack is up to you. Depending on how you style these animations to the right side, it will determine the character's dominant hand. Also, should Aremi have a rapid jab, of the two characters you mentioned to model the jab after, Mario and Little Mac, Little Mac has a rapid jab, but Mario doesn't.

Preferably, I'd like to avoid rapid jabs tbh, and with Aremi in particular, I don't think it suits her anyway.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Preferably, I'd like to avoid rapid jabs tbh, and with Aremi in particular, I don't think it suits her anyway.

Okay then, good to know. My idea for jab strings like this is that holding the button makes the attack string faster but much weaker, while pressing each attack individually would make each hit stronger. Don't know if that is a good idea though.

 

[Kirbeh]

Okay then, good to know. My idea for jab strings like this is that holding the button makes the attack string faster but much weaker, while pressing each attack individually would make each hit stronger. Don't know if that is a good idea though.

So basically, an auto-combo? With as simple as platfighter controls tend to be and with it only being a 3-hit combo it seems kind of unnecessary. I don't really see the benefit of having a slightly faster Jab 2 and 3 either. The first hit still has to come out the same, and if the idea is to have a quicker move to beat out the opponent, the initial hit is what matters.

 

[Glubbfubb]

So basically, an auto-combo? With as simple as platfighter controls tend to be and with it only being a 3-hit combo it seems kind of unnecessary. I don't really see the benefit of having a slightly faster Jab 2 and 3 either. The first hit still has to come out the same, and if the idea is to have a quicker move to beat out the opponent, the initial hit is what matters.

True, when looking at Mario, when the jab button is held he just does Jab 1 on repeat until he hits someone, letting him do the full combo. Alternately, you can do the combo manually. Either way, he still does the full trio of jabs. May just replicate that for Aremi.

 

[FlexTape467]

Hey I have an idea for a fighter do I just put it here?
Also sorry I haven't been active much on discord. Will try to help out with Sigma Buster stuff. I'm not that good at Smash Bros. but I'd still like pitch in a bit when I can.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Spoiler: Weevle's Moveset

Name - Weevle
Gender - Female
Species - G'nat
Origin - Weevle is a G'nat, a species from the little-known outer limits of the galaxy. G'nats are hematophiles, meaning they can only drink blood as a food source, recently, this diet has caused a crisis among their species. Originally the G'nats were often preyed upon by the parasitic Mytans, who migrated from Mythis to the G'nat's native home planet of Dipteros, often slaughtering them like cattle. Eventually, the G'nats were able to cull their oppressors to the cusp of extinction; however, that came at the cost of the near ruination of both Mythis and Dipteros' ecosystems, while also causing a grave food crisis for the G'nats. While G'nats can survive long periods without food, extended periods without feeding cause the G'nat people to become mindless feral savages that will destroy entire environments without food, and as the growing population of feral G'nats grows, Dipteros fell into a civil war due to the overpopulation of the planet. Weevle is one of the few non-feral G'nats native to Dipteros, as most of the other population has moved off the planet to find new food, which gave them a reputation as conquerors. She was discovered by LAMBDA, who took her in to essentially raise her as their own. No one knows the reasoning behind this action, but it has also resulted in many feral G'nats stowing away on the Double Sigma, which, if escaped, can cause a great ecological threat.

Appearance - Weevle's body is mostly dark gray, with more pale accents on her arms and face. She has purple compound eyes that shift to red when she is either feeding on blood or is particularly battle-ready, with winds curved like the wings of a bat. On her person is a dagger, crimson and radiating a blood-red mist, the dagger was something she found around the wastelands making up her home and contains a hollow cavity to fill with the blood of those she stabs for later feeding. Finally, her mouth has the classic fangs of a vampire. When talking or standing still, she often twitches in the neck with an accompanying buzzing sound, just like a fly.

Archetype - Grappler/Rushdown
Gimmick -

• Multi-jump - Weevle's wings give her the ability to jump up to 5 times.
• Glide - While pressing up, Weevle will glide forward, slowing down her descent and allowing her better recover horizontally. In this state any attack she does will instead be a new attack called Spiral Diver where she falls diagonally and spins like a drill.
• Blood Meter - When Weevle grabs the target, she bites into them, sucking up their blood and filling a Blood Meter. She can perform three different actions when the Blood Meter is full, either press Meter + Shield to perform a Blood Leech to swallow the blood drained and get healed 20% damage, press Meter + Taunt to enter a 5-second Blood Frenzy, where she gains a red and purple aura with all her attacks deal 1.3x more damage while taking 1.1x more damage in return, or you can consume the blood meter to perform a powerful attack in place of the Shield Burst called Bloody Trigger, a potent, albeit short range attack, where Weevle spawns a crimson hurricane to heavily damage opponents that are near her.

Intended Strengths -

• A highly potent fighter, with several high damage grabs, tilts, and specials. Using Blood Frenzy can make this trait even more potent.
• Among the best mobility in the cast, with multiple jumps and the best air speed in the game.
• Weevle's small frame allows her to low profile several attacks, making her highly evasive.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Has the worst defenses in the game, with extremely low weight making her easy to KO.
• A good majority of her stronger options have range issues, despite their good damage.
• Weevle's Blood Meter, while having the potential to be potent, requires her to be close to the opponent in order to allow herself to grab them.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B+
Running Speed - B+
Traction - B+
Jump Height - A-
Air Acceleration - A+
Fall Speed - B
Weight - D-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Four Fist Flash - A rapid-fire jab with each of Weevle's four arms rapidly punching the target one after another.
Forward Tilt - Crimson Blade - A slashing attack using her dagger, with the mist emitted extending the range of the attack. This move can be angled up or down, and the middle of the blade, which is the tip of the actual dagger, has a sweet spot capable of KOing opponents.
Up Tilt - Butterfly Wings – Weevle performs a short backward cartwheel/butterfly kick. This can be used as a retreating attack, as the cartwheel will move her back a bit. While tricky to line up due to needing to face away from the opponent, this move can also be a solid juggling tool for combos.
Down Tilt - Sweeping Mantis - Weevle's leg does a sweeping motion across the ground, launching foes in a semi-spike angle. Despite its stubby range, its speed and decent power make it a good combo tool.
Back Tilt - Beetle Bump – Weevle hops backward a bit, hitting opponents with her closed wings and backside.
Dash Attack - Rolly Polly - Weevle tucks in her body and rolls a short distance. Since her body is tucked in, the attack has light armor, but it has a short attack distance. When the button is pressed in the middle of the attack, Weevle will unfurl and perform Crashing Hopper, a strong dropkick, trading extra end lag in exchange for more distance, power, and mixup potential.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Young Grasshopper – Weevle performs a forward flip, striking with a heel drop enhanced by a trail of blood.
Up Charge - Spinning Dragonfly – Weevle flips onto her back and performs a blood-soaked, spiraling kick upward. This move leaves Weevle airborne.
Down Charge - Spiked Breakspin - A move that has Weevle perform a breakdance spin, with the dagger in her feet making the move have more a sharper animation, and sharper damage.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Red Windmill – A spin in the air, where Weevle's body spawns blood blades to extend the range of the attack, making it one of her longer-ranged melee attacks.
Forward Air - Crimson Axe - An axe kick, capable of spiking opponents if you hit the heel of the move. Red mist trails this move, with the area of the spike being a deep crimson.
Up Air - Cicada Clasp - An upwards clap made with Weevle's wings, good for combos at low percents and a get off me tool at high percents.
Down Air - Bloody Arrow - Weevle brings her legs together, creating a blade at her feet, and drops straight down, spinning like a cyclone. The final hit of the move is a potent spike, so lining up the shot is important.
Back Air - Pain Kick - A thrusting kick from behind, its range and speed allow you to "wall of pain" your opponent.

Grabs:
Pummel - Bite - A bite to suck all the blood out of the opponent, which then fills the Blood Meter.
Forward Throw - Hercules Beetle – Weevle swings the opponent around with surprising strength, sending them flying with a giant swing. It has the most knockback of her throws. Potentially an early kill throw when used at the ledge.
Down Throw - Crimson Drill - Weevle knocks the opponent to the ground and quickly follows up with a drilling stomp attack using blood around her legs.
Back Throw - Rolling Beetle - Weevle flips backward with the opponent several times and slams them into the ground.
Up Throw - Meteor Mite - Weevle flies up with the opponent before crashing back down, this is a kill throw at high percents.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Red Cutters – Weevle launches two blood disks as medium-range projectiles; the initial hit is weak, but on the way back, the projectiles gain stronger knockback, good for bringing opponents in.

• Neutral Hyper - Crimson Scythe – Weevle launches a single, large, spinning blood blade. Deals more damage and more reliably drags opponents on return.

Side Special - Stinging Kick - Using a spiked heel, Weevle performs a potent side-kick. The distances traveled with the kick are determined by her current velocity, with the faster she is in the air, the more the kick travels.

• Side Hyper - Hornet Missile - Weevle's kick now travels at an angle, and the angle can be manipulated during the kick itself.

Down Special - Flying Beetle - Weevle dashes then performs a command grab, with the choice of kicking the opponent forward, backwards, or upwards.

• Down Hyper - Flying Stag - Weevle dashes forward to perform a loop-de-loop attack while grabbing the opponent, eventually crashing into the ground as a powerful command grab.

Up Special - Vampire Drill – Weevle charges her dagger to perform a spinning drill attack upwards, a potent multi-hit, but she will be sent into free-fall afterward. She can guide the spin to get better recovery utility, but it travels less distance compared to other Up Specials.

• Up Hyper - Scarlet Spinner – The move travels farther and deals more hits of damage. The drill is also red due to being charged with blood.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Blood Burst – Weevle creates an explosive projectile made of blood, launching foes away in a radius all around said explosion. This move's range and power will increase based on how full the blood meter is, but will in turn also drain it.
Level 2 - Vermilion - A super version of her rapid jab, enhanced by infusing blood into her strikes. As a super, it has much greater power than the rapid jab, but also gains extended range. The flurry of strikes is capped off with a cross chop from all four arms, enhanced by blood blades.
Level 3 - Vampire Dive – A command grab super where Weevle will launch opponents into the air and perform a frenzy of claw attacks using blood. She'll then finish them off by grabbing them in midair and flipping upside down, slamming back into the ground, Izuna Drop/SPD style.

Okay Kirbeh I decided to update Weevle's kit, since my and your ideas for her are so different. I decided to combine traits from both pitches, while implementing a reworked Blood Meter and gain some new attributes to emphasize her aerial focus. Also yes I gave her a Knuckles glide, again to improve her air game. I also buffed her overall recovery to better justify the initial idea for an Up Special. I may have strayed from her grappler archetype, trading that for some Falco and PM Knuckles-styled moves, but she still has some potent grabs. I wonder if this is a good kit now, I want to emphasize skill with this moveset, and I think the new Blood Meter can help with that.

 

[FlexTape467]

I assume the like on the post is a green light for me to post my concept so here it is:

Name - Nemesis
Gender - N/A
Species - Robot (not an Android, more like an older one that doesn't like as crisp or clean)
Origin - Originally from Earth, which has become a desolate, harsh, radioactive and acidic wasteland after several world wars in 21XX. Most of the humans now are either dead, or far out in space in spaceships, with none of them on Earth. Nemesis was previously a security robot guarding a bunker, but after more than 700 years of operation, the robot had become a mere shell, and was beyond disrepair. However, a few decades before The Double Sigma returned to it's home planet, it visited Earth, in search of more forces, and found the robot. The corrupt AI Core, LAMBDA knew that the robot was dead for over centuries by now, but the AI had a plan to make the robot into a weapon of mass destruction. The robot would simply have its power source change, from a battery, to an AI Core. LAMBDA took one of the dead AI's, and made it power the old automaton. After replacing a few parts, and recoding the AI Core, Nemesis was born. LAMBDA made the reborn mech his right-hand man, because LAMBDA killed/shut down everyone/thing else on the Double Sigma. Since them, Nemesis has been committing vast amounts of war crimes across the outer galaxy to further LAMBDA's goals.
Appearance - Tall, Bronze, Humanoid appearance, A bit rusty, with some dark, sleek steel in some spots, Has red/blue lightbulbs on shoulders, in Siege mode they have some missile launchers on their shoulders too, plus some flamethrowers on their wrists. In Recon mode Nemesis's torso is slimmer, in Siege mode the torso is more blocky

Archetype - Stance (can change between a rushdown-like fighter and a zoner)
Gimmick - Nemesis can change stances with their down special, but doesn't have a down hyper.
Intended Strengths - Very versatile moveset (as a whole)
Can both rushdown and play keep away if played well.
Intended Weaknesses - May be difficult for newer players to play
Changing stances is lengthy, and requires some space because you can still be damaged.
Lacks a Down Special/Hyper

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+) (Recon/Siege)
Walk Speed - B-/C-
Running Speed - A-/C
Traction - B-/A-
Jump Height - B+/D+
Air Acceleration - B/C
Fall Speed - A/C-
Weight - C/A-
Some normal moves are slightly slower in Siege mode. Charge attacks can't be used in Siege mode.

Ground Moves:
Jab - A 3-hit combo if the first punch connects. 3-hit combo is a punch, kick, and then another kick
Forward Tilt - A roundhouse kick, can hit twice under the right circumstances. Can be angled a bit.
Up Tilt - Fires a small beam from its eyes. Can be angled. Low start and end lag, but can't hit most people in the ground
Down Tilt - Spews fire onto the floor from a flamethrower on its right arm. Long end lag.
Back Tilt - Same roundhouse kick from forward tilt, but makes the kick turn another 180 degrees to face the other way at the end. Slightly more end lag.
Dash Attack - Slides feet on the ground and performs a palm strike.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Supercharges their flamethrower behind them, and upon releasing the attack button, thrust their arms forwards, and releases a very hot flame. Can multi-hit.
Up Charge - Does a pinwheel kick. Low range for a charge attack, but comes out fast-ish.
Down Charge - Does a low roundhouse kick.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Does a backflip
Forward Air - An uppercut.
Up Air - Spews fire above them for a bit. Can multi-hit, but has more end lag than the other aerials.
Down Air - Punches downwards, and starts falling down to the ground (or to a blast zone if used off-stage haha). Minor end lag.
Back Air - Nemesis fires a melee range concussive blast from their hand shotgun behind them. Doesn't do much damage, but does the most knock out of their aerials. Small hitbox.

Grabs:
Pummel - Fires an eye beam at the grabbed opponent.
Forward Throw - Fires a shotgun blast at the enemy in the direction Nemesis is facing.
Down Throw - Slams opponent onto ground, and blasts them with his hand shotgun twice. This launches them into the air somehow.
Back Throw - Tosses the opponent behind them, and roundhouse kicks them.
Up Throw - Uppercuts the opponent.

Specials:
Recon mode:
Neutral Special - Shotgun Slug: Nemesis loads a shotgun slug his hand shotgun (which turns his hand into a shotgun), and fires it. About as fast as Mario's fireball, goes about as far as 2/3rds of Battlefield. Does low damage for a projectile.

• Neutral Hyper - Hand Shotgun: Instead of a slug, Nemesis loads an 8 gauge shotgun shell into their hand shotgun. Has more start up and end lag, but instead of a low damage projectile, the 8 gauge shell produces a large hitbox, that does about 15-24% damage and good knockback, depending on how close the target was to the blast. Also knocks Nemesis back a bit. Cannot use this move (or Energy Shotgun) for 3.5 seconds after use.

Side Special - Chokehold: Nemesis dashes towards the direction you choose, and if Nemesis hits an opponent, they'll grab them,, raise them into the air for a bit, and then slam the opponent down. The slam is the main damage source of this special. Long end lag if the move doesn't connect. Similar to Ganondorf's side special

• Side Hyper - Shotgrapple: The move goes farther, has less end lag, and if the move connects, instead of the slam, the opponent will be held in place for a bit longer, and then Nemesis will fire its shotgun at his target, dealing increase damage, and you can tilt the attack to manipulate where the opponent will be knocked back.

Down Special - Function: Recon/Siege
Changes your current stance. If you are currently in Recon mode, Nemesis will transition to Siege mode, and vice versa. Takes about .5 seconds to complete.

• Down Hyper - N/A

Up Special - Liftoff: Nemesis fires their thruster, launching them up into the air. Can hit opponent on the first few frames, but won't do much damage. Average for a recovery. Sends you into freefall when the move ends.

• Up Hyper - Burn Thrusters: Lasts longer than Liftoff, and always has the hitbox (until the move ends of course). The main difference here is that you can tilt the joystick to change you horizontal direction significantly, making your recovery more unpredictable. Sends you into freefall when the move ends.

Siege mode:
Neutral Special - Mortar: Nemesis fires an artillery shell out of the missile launchers, (the height can be changed by tilting the stick, but by default it will travel about 1/2 of Battlefield before detonating). Detonates upon hitting the ground/an opponent. Explosion radius is small. Start and end lag is long

• Neutral Hyper - Missile Barrage: Rapid fires 6 missiles from their missile launchers. Has very long range.

Side Special - Energy Shotgun: Nemesis's shotgun becomes loaded with energy shells, so the shotgun will now fire 3 energy spheres at a 35, 0, and -35 degree angle. Spheres are slightly faster than the slug, and can travel further.

• Side Hyper - Shockwave: Plants the energy shotgun into the ground, and fires it, causing an explosion in the ground, and sending debris across a medium-sized area.

Down Special - Function: Recon/Siege
Changes your current stance. If you are currently in Recon mode, Nemesis will transition to Siege mode, and vice versa. Takes about .5 seconds to complete.

• Down Hyper - N/A

Up Special - Rocket Jump: Nemesis fires a rocket below him, which then explodes and launches them into the air. Doesn't send them into freefall. More effective on the ground than in the air.

• Up Hyper - Searing Blast: Detaches the missile launchers, and burns them with them with their flamethrower, which cooks the ammunition inside, causing an explosion. The explosion causes some self damage, but is overall a more effective recovery in the air than Rocket Jump. If used on the ground, you can also toss the missile launchers in front of you, which will deal damage to enemies. Nemesis will only take half the damage an opponent would. The missile launchers will reappear in 10 seconds. Nemesis can't use missile related attacks until they get the missile launchers back.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Missile Swarm: Nemesis goes into Siege mode, and fires 8 homing missiles from the missile launchers. They home in on the closest opponent .5 seconds after firing. You can control the direct the missiles are fired with the joystick. The missiles will explode after 6 seconds.
Level 2 - Rampage: Nemesis goes into Recon mode, fully loads their hand shotgun with a bunch of shells, and starts shooting wildly, damaging everyone within an area around them. Lasts for 4 seconds. If someone is within the area at the end of the attack, Nemesis will punch them with the hand shotgun, and fire at them the moment the punch connects, dealing heavy damage.
Level 3 - Function: Dragon: Lasts 7 seconds. Gives Nemesis the ability to rapidly shift between Recon/Siege mode, and gives them the better stats of both stances.

I don't feel like giving the normal attacks names, and I probably messed up the balancing on this character, so if anyone has any ideas on fixing this guy, feel free to suggest stuff. If you think the character's fine though, that's cool.

Also if you want me to give a rough sketch of the fighter, I can do that.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I assume the like on the post is a green light for me to post my concept so here it is:

Name - Nemesis
Gender - N/A
Species - Robot (not an Android, more like an older one that doesn't like as crisp or clean)
Origin - Originally from Earth, which has become a desolate, harsh, radioactive and acidic wasteland after several world wars in 21XX. Most of the humans now are either dead, or far out in space in spaceships, with none of them on Earth. Nemesis was previously a security robot guarding a bunker, but after more than 700 years of operation, the robot had become a mere shell, and was beyond disrepair. However, a few decades before The Double Sigma returned to it's home planet, it visited Earth, in search of more forces, and found the robot. The corrupt AI Core, LAMBDA knew that the robot was dead for over centuries by now, but the AI had a plan to make the robot into a weapon of mass destruction. The robot would simply have its power source change, from a battery, to an AI Core. LAMBDA took one of the dead AI's, and made it power the old automaton. After replacing a few parts, and recoding the AI Core, Nemesis was born. LAMBDA made the reborn mech his right-hand man, because LAMBDA killed/shut down everyone/thing else on the Double Sigma. Since them, Nemesis has been committing vast amounts of war crimes across the outer galaxy to further LAMBDA's goals.
Appearance - Tall, Bronze, Humanoid appearance, A bit rusty, with some dark, sleek steel in some spots, Has red/blue lightbulbs on shoulders, in Siege mode they have some missile launchers on their shoulders too, plus some flamethrowers on their wrists. In Recon mode Nemesis's torso is slimmer, in Siege mode the torso is more blocky

Archetype - Stance (can change between a rushdown-like fighter and a zoner)
Gimmick - Nemesis can change stances with their down special, but doesn't have a down hyper.
Intended Strengths - Very versatile moveset (as a whole)
Can both rushdown and play keep away if played well.
Intended Weaknesses - May be difficult for newer players to play
Changing stances is lengthy, and requires some space because you can still be damaged.
Lacks a Down Special/Hyper

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+) (Recon/Siege)
Walk Speed - B-/C-
Running Speed - A-/C
Traction - B-/A-
Jump Height - B+/D+
Air Acceleration - B/C
Fall Speed - A/C-
Weight - C/A-
Some normal moves are slightly slower in Siege mode. Charge attacks can't be used in Siege mode.

Ground Moves:
Jab - A 3-hit combo if the first punch connects. 3-hit combo is a punch, kick, and then another kick
Forward Tilt - A roundhouse kick, can hit twice under the right circumstances. Can be angled a bit.
Up Tilt - Fires a small beam from its eyes. Can be angled. Low start and end lag, but can't hit most people in the ground
Down Tilt - Spews fire onto the floor from a flamethrower on its right arm. Long end lag.
Back Tilt - Same roundhouse kick from forward tilt, but makes the kick turn another 180 degrees to face the other way at the end. Slightly more end lag.
Dash Attack - Slides feet on the ground and performs a palm strike.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Supercharges their flamethrower behind them, and upon releasing the attack button, thrust their arms forwards, and releases a very hot flame. Can multi-hit.
Up Charge - Does a pinwheel kick. Low range for a charge attack, but comes out fast-ish.
Down Charge - Does a low roundhouse kick.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Does a backflip
Forward Air - An uppercut.
Up Air - Spews fire above them for a bit. Can multi-hit, but has more end lag than the other aerials.
Down Air - Punches downwards, and starts falling down to the ground (or to a blast zone if used off-stage haha). Minor end lag.
Back Air - Nemesis fires a melee range concussive blast from their hand shotgun behind them. Doesn't do much damage, but does the most knock out of their aerials. Small hitbox.

Grabs:
Pummel - Fires an eye beam at the grabbed opponent.
Forward Throw - Fires a shotgun blast at the enemy in the direction Nemesis is facing.
Down Throw - Slams opponent onto ground, and blasts them with his hand shotgun twice. This launches them into the air somehow.
Back Throw - Tosses the opponent behind them, and roundhouse kicks them.
Up Throw - Uppercuts the opponent.

Specials:
Recon mode:
Neutral Special - Shotgun Slug: Nemesis loads a shotgun slug his hand shotgun (which turns his hand into a shotgun), and fires it. About as fast as Mario's fireball, goes about as far as 2/3rds of Battlefield. Does low damage for a projectile.

• Neutral Hyper - Hand Shotgun: Instead of a slug, Nemesis loads an 8 gauge shotgun shell into their hand shotgun. Has more start up and end lag, but instead of a low damage projectile, the 8 gauge shell produces a large hitbox, that does about 15-24% damage and good knockback, depending on how close the target was to the blast. Also knocks Nemesis back a bit. Cannot use this move (or Energy Shotgun) for 3.5 seconds after use.

Side Special - Chokehold: Nemesis dashes towards the direction you choose, and if Nemesis hits an opponent, they'll grab them,, raise them into the air for a bit, and then slam the opponent down. The slam is the main damage source of this special. Long end lag if the move doesn't connect. Similar to Ganondorf's side special

• Side Hyper - Shotgrapple: The move goes farther, has less end lag, and if the move connects, instead of the slam, the opponent will be held in place for a bit longer, and then Nemesis will fire its shotgun at his target, dealing increase damage, and you can tilt the attack to manipulate where the opponent will be knocked back.

Down Special - Function: Recon/Siege
Changes your current stance. If you are currently in Recon mode, Nemesis will transition to Siege mode, and vice versa. Takes about .5 seconds to complete.

• Down Hyper - N/A

Up Special - Liftoff: Nemesis fires their thruster, launching them up into the air. Can hit opponent on the first few frames, but won't do much damage. Average for a recovery. Sends you into freefall when the move ends.

• Up Hyper - Burn Thrusters: Lasts longer than Liftoff, and always has the hitbox (until the move ends of course). The main difference here is that you can tilt the joystick to change you horizontal direction significantly, making your recovery more unpredictable. Sends you into freefall when the move ends.

Siege mode:
Neutral Special - Mortar: Nemesis fires an artillery shell out of the missile launchers, (the height can be changed by tilting the stick, but by default it will travel about 1/2 of Battlefield before detonating). Detonates upon hitting the ground/an opponent. Explosion radius is small. Start and end lag is long

• Neutral Hyper - Missile Barrage: Rapid fires 6 missiles from their missile launchers. Has very long range.

Side Special - Energy Shotgun: Nemesis's shotgun becomes loaded with energy shells, so the shotgun will now fire 3 energy spheres at a 35, 0, and -35 degree angle. Spheres are slightly faster than the slug, and can travel further.

• Side Hyper - Shockwave: Plants the energy shotgun into the ground, and fires it, causing an explosion in the ground, and sending debris across a medium-sized area.

Down Special - Function: Recon/Siege
Changes your current stance. If you are currently in Recon mode, Nemesis will transition to Siege mode, and vice versa. Takes about .5 seconds to complete.

• Down Hyper - N/A

Up Special - Rocket Jump: Nemesis fires a rocket below him, which then explodes and launches them into the air. Doesn't send them into freefall. More effective on the ground than in the air.

• Up Hyper - Searing Blast: Detaches the missile launchers, and burns them with them with their flamethrower, which cooks the ammunition inside, causing an explosion. The explosion causes some self damage, but is overall a more effective recovery in the air than Rocket Jump. If used on the ground, you can also toss the missile launchers in front of you, which will deal damage to enemies. Nemesis will only take half the damage an opponent would. The missile launchers will reappear in 10 seconds. Nemesis can't use missile related attacks until they get the missile launchers back.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Missile Swarm: Nemesis goes into Siege mode, and fires 8 homing missiles from the missile launchers. They home in on the closest opponent .5 seconds after firing. You can control the direct the missiles are fired with the joystick. The missiles will explode after 6 seconds.
Level 2 - Rampage: Nemesis goes into Recon mode, fully loads their hand shotgun with a bunch of shells, and starts shooting wildly, damaging everyone within an area around them. Lasts for 4 seconds. If someone is within the area at the end of the attack, Nemesis will punch them with the hand shotgun, and fire at them the moment the punch connects, dealing heavy damage.
Level 3 - Function: Dragon: Lasts 7 seconds. Gives Nemesis the ability to rapidly shift between Recon/Siege mode, and gives them the better stats of both stances.

I don't feel like giving the normal attacks names, and I probably messed up the balancing on this character, so if anyone has any ideas on fixing this guy, feel free to suggest stuff. If you think the character's fine though, that's cool.

Also if you want me to give a rough sketch of the fighter, I can do that.

Again we're pretty filled on the current roster, but I like the ideas, I don't know the ethical or legal ramifications of including a fan made idea, so I can't guarantee this idea being added. Would be a cool thing to pin, since now I know that there are popular requests for a stance system character. But again I have no idea if I can even include this idea specifically. Hope you understand.

 

[FlexTape467]

Again we're pretty filled on the current roster, but I like the ideas, I don't know the ethical or legal ramifications of including a fan made idea, so I can't guarantee this idea being added. Would be a cool thing to pin, since now I know that there are popular requests for a stance system character. But again I have no idea if I can even include this idea specifically. Hope you understand.

Yeah that's cool. I get it.

 

[FlexTape467]

you think a 2v2 mode could be implemented?

 

[Glubbfubb]

you think a 2v2 mode could be implemented?

Of course, that's a staple of the genre

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh I managed to rearrange some files and managed to make the game more flexible to code while taking up less total data, which is a good thing. What updates do you have?

 

[FlexTape467]

Kirbeh I managed to rearrange some files and managed to make the game more flexible to code while taking up less total data, which is a good thing. What updates do you have?

epic

 

[Glubbfubb]

Some more random thoughts I had when designing the backgrounds of these characters, Kirbeh , I think instead of Viprin, Chell's homeworld, being essentially Space Australia, I think it would be cooler if it were essentially a supergiant planet housing oversized beasts and other fanged monstrosities. This would likely house our Hyrule Temple-esc stage, taking place in the deep wilderness of Virpin. And to survive, the local Viprex population evolved hard, dense scales and thick muscles, making them quite durable and heavy for their build, adding some reasoning behind Chell's heavy/cruiser weight stats.

 

[FlexTape467]

Some more random thoughts I had when designing the backgrounds of these characters, Kirbeh , I think instead of Viprin, Chell's homeworld, being essentially Space Australia, I think it would be cooler if it were essentially a supergiant planet housing oversized beasts and other fanged monstrosities. This would likely house our Hyrule Temple-esc stage, taking place in the deep wilderness of Virpin. And to survive, the local Viprex population evolved hard, dense scales and thick muscles, making them quite durable and heavy for their build, adding some reasoning behind Chell's heavy/cruiser weight stats.

hyrule temple-esc how?

 

[Glubbfubb]

hyrule temple-esc how?

A bigger stage basically, for more casual battles

 

[FlexTape467]

A bigger stage basically, for more casual battles

got it

 

[Glubbfubb]

got it

Temple

Temple is a stage introduced in Super Smash Bros. Melee, which returns in Super Smash Bros. Brawl as a Melee Stage, and in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate as a familiar stage. It is commonly known as Hyrule Temple, though...

www.ssbwiki.com

Something like this, in case you're wondering.

 

[Kirbeh]

Kirbeh I managed to rearrange some files and managed to make the game more flexible to code while taking up less total data, which is a good thing. What updates do you have?

Slow going due to work and irl obligations as usual, but I've started actual sprite work for Aremi. I still haven't read your update on Weevle. but I'll get to that along with any last revisions/suggestions as soon as I can.

Some more random thoughts I had when designing the backgrounds of these characters, Kirbeh , I think instead of Viprin, Chell's homeworld, being essentially Space Australia, I think it would be cooler if it were essentially a supergiant planet housing oversized beasts and other fanged monstrosities. This would likely house our Hyrule Temple-esc stage, taking place in the deep wilderness of Virpin. And to survive, the local Viprex population evolved hard, dense scales and thick muscles, making them quite durable and heavy for their build, adding some reasoning behind Chell's heavy/cruiser weight stats.

Souds good to me. Anything in mind for this stage? Ruins in a desert or jungle maybe?

I assume the like on the post is a green light for me to post my concept so here it is:

I'll echo Glub's sentiment here.

We do appreciate your interest in the project, but as far as fighters go, we've got a pretty lengthy list to work through already (most of whom will 100% not actually make it into the game). The current aim is to have 8-10 fighters comprise a base roster and we've got a little over double that in total from Glub's character concepts. Given that they're just as much my own characters at this point from the actual design process, I've pretty much shelved the wholly original contributions of my own in order to focus on Glub's core roster given that it's his game and all.

Again, the enthusiasm is much appreciated but we're not really looking to take on even more work when we're only just laying down the basics of a foundation.

It's pretty much a messy passion project as things currently stand (if that wasn't already apparent from two forum posters brainstorming in a public and unprofessional setting.) We don't really know what we're doing, how long it'll take to complete or if it'll find any success.

More to the point, as Glub said, using ideas from an outside party would only complicate things.

It's not like I'm officially under his employ either mind you, but I'm able to volunteer/contribute work to the project and sign off on use of my work when the time comes to do so. As a minor, you can't and would not be allowed to contribute either way.

Glubbfubb said they'd put a pin on it, but I'd advise against it.

I hope that doesn't come off as discouraging though F FlexTape467

I would say that if you're interested in doing some game dev, to just do some research/practice on your own and start jotting down/sketching ideas for something all your own. You can't join a team, but you could still start learning with a small personal project. Start learning the basics of Godot or Unreal with some video tutorials, stuff like that.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Slow going due to work and irl obligations as usual, but I've started actual sprite work for Aremi. I still haven't read your update on Weevle. but I'll get to that along with any last revisions/suggestions as soon as I can.


Souds good to me. Anything in mind for this stage? Ruins in a desert or jungle maybe?


I'll echo Glub's sentiment here.

We do appreciate your interest in the project, but as far as fighters go, we've got a pretty lengthy list to work through already (most of whom will 100% not actually make it into the game). The current aim is to have 8-10 fighters comprise a base roster and we've got a little over double that in total from Glub's character concepts. Given that they're just as much my own characters at this point from the actual design process, I've pretty much shelved the wholly original contributions of my own in order to focus on Glub's core roster given that it's his game and all.

Again, the enthusiasm is much appreciated but we're not really looking to take on even more work when we're only just laying down the basics of a foundation.

It's pretty much a messy passion project as things currently stand (if that wasn't already apparent from two forum posters brainstorming in a public and unprofessional setting.) We don't really know what we're doing, how long it'll take to complete or if it'll find any success.

More to the point, as Glub said, using ideas from an outside party would only complicate things.

It's not like I'm officially under his employ either mind you, but I'm able to volunteer/contribute work to the project and sign off on use of my work when the time comes to do so. As a minor, you can't and would not be allowed to contribute either way.

Glubbfubb said they'd put a pin on it, but I'd advise against it.

I hope that doesn't come off as discouraging though F FlexTape467

I would say that if you're interested in doing some game dev, to just do some research/practice on your own and start jotting down/sketching ideas for something all your own. You can't join a team, but you could still start learning with a small personal project. Start learning the basics of Godot or Unreal with some video tutorials, stuff like that.

For Chell's stage, I would say a partially unearthed ancient city built around the fossil of some large extinct creature, this would be in the more desert-esc area of Viprin, some miles off the more habitable jungle areas.

Sorry for the sudden flood of messages, btw, a lot of stuff happened in the server and I wanted to share updates of the game to you since you don't go there as much, I am more instantaneous in responding in the server than on the forum since I get notified of new messages there sooner than on Smashboards.

 

[Glubbfubb]

My next course of action is designing different platforms to test how my character interacts with different platform types such as ice that lowers traction, sand that decreased speed, among other stuff, basically a true test stage to test the physics. Plus its a good place to keep finished assets to add to other stages.

 

[Kirbeh]

So, I was looking over the Verm concept, and honestly, I'm kind of at a loss on how to go about it. I understand that you were going for a mage style character, but he honestly feels too traditional fantasy mage from the description you currently have. I'm strictly talking visuals here for the record, but I feel like they clash with the rest of a cast and don't seem all that complimentary to Kalin design wise.

I think going for a more punk aesthetic for their attire and general appearance would look better standing next to Kalin. I know it's a pretty drastic shift, but a more modern looking punk or goth sort of look would potentially fit better.

Spoiler

ignore mob shark man

 

[Glubbfubb]

So, I was looking over the Verm concept, and honestly, I'm kind of at a loss on how to go about it. I understand that you were going for a mage style character, but he honestly feels too traditional fantasy mage from the description you currently have. I'm strictly talking visuals here for the record, but I feel like they clash with the rest of a cast and don't seem all that complimentary to Kalin design wise.

I think going for a more punk aesthetic for their attire and general appearance would look better standing next to Kalin. I know it's a pretty drastic shift, but a more modern looking punk or goth sort of look would potentially fit better.

ignore mob shark man
View attachment 392296
View attachment 392297
Made a female version too for a potential shift to a goth "witch" sort of theme.

I like the concept you have, I especially like the hunched over design carrying the spiked staff on the first document, reminds me of an evil Yoda or something, if you can make that one match the height of Kalin he could work. I think to compliment the two, they should instead be true contrasts in design, with Kalin appearing prim and proper like the scientist she is, albeit with a crazy streak, while Verm is scraggly but has a surprisingly tender heart.

Also, I am deciding to add a new Guts Meter action to expand air movement, the Air Boost, an air dash yes but one that also utilizes physics instead of a straight dash forward. If you play a Sonic boost game, imagine him boosting in the air, having gravity drop him to the ground, that is essentially this action. It's both a burst movement option and a recovery tool. Will work on this concept more.

Also how do you like Verm's moveset, I quite like it, one of my favorites of the cast.

 

[Kirbeh]

I like the concept you have, I especially like the hunched over design carrying the spiked staff on the first document, reminds me of an evil Yoda or something, if you can make that one match the height of Kalin he could work. I think to compliment the two, they should instead be true contrasts in design, with Kalin appearing prim and proper like the scientist she is, albeit with a crazy streak, while Verm is scraggly but has a surprisingly tender heart.

Also, I am deciding to add a new Guts Meter action to expand air movement, the Air Boost, an air dash yes but one that also utilizes physics instead of a straight dash forward. If you play a Sonic boost game, imagine him boosting in the air, having gravity drop him to the ground, that is essentially this action. It's both a burst movement option and a recovery tool. Will work on this concept more.

Also how do you like Verm's moveset, I quite like it, one of my favorites of the cast.

We've reached another divisive one it seems. I'm fairly mixed on Verm's actual moveset and I really don't like the first batch of doodles I made for him.

I'll write up a revision on the moveset like usual, but before I do, I think it's more important to come up with a design we can agree on.

A character's visual design can and often does inform parts of their play, and I want to take that into account when writing out the revision.

 

[Glubbfubb]

We've reached another divisive one it seems. I'm fairly mixed on Verm's actual moveset and I really don't like the first batch of doodles I made for him.

I'll write up a revision on the moveset like usual, but before I do, I think it's more important to come up with a design we can agree on.

A character's visual design can and often does inform parts of their play, and I want to take that into account when writing out the revision.

I do think the hunched design should be the one that we should focus on, though that can be further refined into him having a poor or off-kilter posture, ala characters like Igor or Dr. N. Brio. As for the kit, I feel Toxic Flask and Black Mist would be the cornerstone of his character archetype, concept, and kit, as it offers both potent stage control and the ability to send out status effects, Verm's specialty, while I don't mind Specter Ball and Shadow Winds being cut/reworked, though I want his neutral special to be a projectile with weird properties to fit his off kilter.

Also how does the airboost idea work, I quite like it.

 

[Kirbeh]

I do think the hunched design should be the one that we should focus on, though that can be further refined into him having a poor or off-kilter posture, ala characters like Igor or Dr. N. Brio. As for the kit, I feel Toxic Flask and Black Mist would be the cornerstone of his character archetype, concept, and kit, as it offers both potent stage control and the ability to send out status effects, Verm's specialty, while I don't mind Specter Ball and Shadow Winds being cut/reworked, though I want his neutral special to be a projectile with weird properties to fit his off kilter.

Also how does the airboost idea work, I quite like it.

I like the air boost. Don't really have much to add until I actually see how it actually functions in practice.

For the most part the specials I'm fine with, it's a mix of moves from all the other categories that I'll be targeting.

As for their appearance, I suppose it's back to the drawing board.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I like the air boost. Don't really have much to add until I actually see how it actually functions in practice.

For the most part the specials I'm fine with, it's a mix of moves from all the other categories that I'll be targeting.

As for their appearance, I suppose it's back to the drawing board.

The airboost works fine, made it so that you can't spam it by making it you can only do one air boost until you land on the ground, air boosts, like all actions, are character specific, some have good ones, some have below average ones, Aremi is some awkward place in the middle.

 

[Kirbeh]

Verm round 3

 

[Glubbfubb]

Verm round 3
View attachment 392299

Verm looks like the type of guy that would spend all day on message boards painstakingly analyzing each frame of every piece of media he watched to point out a potential detail ONLY HE COULD NOTICE while having his fingertips and breath have Cheetos dust infused on the molecular level, this is a perfect design for him, I just want to point out he looks like that.

 

[Kirbeh]

Verm looks like the type of guy that would spend all day on message boards painstakingly analyzing each frame of every piece of media he watched to point out a potential detail ONLY HE COULD NOTICE while having his fingertips and breath have Cheetos dust infused on the molecular level, this is a perfect design for him, I just want to point out he looks like that.

Could've done without the description but I'm glad you like it?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Could've done without the description but I'm glad you like it?

It was just a funny joke that popped in my head, sorry about if it hurt you

 

[Kirbeh]

It was just a funny joke that popped in my head, sorry about if it hurt you

Hurt? That'd be silly, of course not. Just not the imagery I wanted in my head atm lol

 

[Glubbfubb]

Hurt? That'd be silly, of course not. Just not the imagery I wanted in my head atm lol

Oh, that's good, I was also going to say I got some serious Filbert vibes from Rocko's Modern Life when looking at him too.