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Sigma Busters (Name Pending): Official Discussion Thread

Kirbeh

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True, true, maybe use other Japanese aesthetics in her design, not just explicitly sumo, she is also based off the Japanese giant hornet btw.
I do have another suggestion though. Rather than being solely based on a hornet, why not incorporate elements of the honey pot ant? Ants follow similar hierarchies to bees and the "honey pot" part could be reincorporated into Vespa's design as her abdomen/tail. This is where she would produce the Ambrosium and also serve as her weak point to tie into the "bulky front/weak behind" gimmick.
 

Glubbfubb

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I do have another suggestion though. Rather than being solely based on a hornet, why not incorporate elements of the honey pot ant? Ants follow similar hierarchies to bees and the "honey pot" part could be reincorporated into Vespa's design as her abdomen/tail. This is where she would produce the Ambrosium and also serve as her weak point to tie into the "bulky front/weak behind" gimmick.
Okay I am hearing you out on this one, but I want to make an addition to that addition. Why not loosely base her general build on of all characters, Henry J Waternoose from Monster's Inc.
1717636903599.png

Now this isn't an exact build, far from it, but the ideas you gave just really reminded me of his build, I like to showcase stats and abilities in physical traits. If we are having an engorged abdomen for Abrosium on top of her pronounced gut, having 4 legs to support that massive frame would make sense (and the other 2 legs would be her arms) Waternoose as shown in the film was fast and strong, which is what I am going for with Vespa. It's not a full inspiration or emulation, but something to look into when making the next design sketches. So yeah just look at some core design elements of Waternoose and tell me if any of them would work for the design. What do you think?
 

Kirbeh

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Okay I am hearing you out on this one, but I want to make an addition to that addition. Why not loosely base her general build on of all characters, Henry J Waternoose from Monster's Inc.
View attachment 390695
Now this isn't an exact build, far from it, but the ideas you gave just really reminded me of his build, I like to showcase stats and abilities in physical traits. If we are having an engorged abdomen for Abrosium on top of her pronounced gut, having 4 legs to support that massive frame would make sense (and the other 2 legs would be her arms) Waternoose as shown in the film was fast and strong, which is what I am going for with Vespa. It's not a full inspiration or emulation, but something to look into when making the next design sketches. So yeah just look at some core design elements of Waternoose and tell me if any of them would work for the design. What do you think?
I'm going have to disagree here. This sort of build drastically changes the way Vespa would need to animate and might be less suited for the sumo inspired design. Plus, the whole crabby/actual insecty look is already the Myten Queen's thing and she's the creepy, parasite thing. Since Vespa's a benevolent leader/gentle giant type of character, I want to focus on making her cute.
 

Glubbfubb

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I'm going have to disagree here. This sort of build drastically changes the way Vespa would need to animate and might be less suited for the sumo inspired design. Plus, the whole crabby/actual insecty look is already the Myten Queen's thing and she's the creepy, parasite thing. Since Vespa's a benevolent leader/gentle giant type of character, I want to focus on making her cute.
Yeah just make the best design you can, and ill comment.
 

Glubbfubb

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More people may join this forum who were originally outside of Smashboards, just so you know.
 

Glubbfubb

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DEV UPDATE - The new physics system is not crashing the game anymore, the bad news is that I'm trying to figure out why my character isn't moving, coding is fun.
 

Glubbfubb

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Had some ideas to flesh out Apidon the planet, I think it would be cool if the dominant species of plantlife was fungus instead, giant mushrooms are carved out into large hives, with the spores being melted into a thick cream sauce. There could be mines for truffles, where the Apidon Wasps would go underground to dig up giant rare truffles. The oceans would be highly oily due to all the mycelium in the water supply, and there would be oil drills that dig up not petroleum oil, but cooking oil, and the seabeds have salt mines. Basically, this planet mines spice, but literal spice, making it a top tourist planet, with the largest restaurant in the galaxy orbiting the planet as a satellite. How does that sound?

Most of the animals are either giant living fungi, something like the Puffstool from Pikmin, and giant beasts with highly developed stomachs and teeth. One of the most infamous enemies is the Gripperbiter, a maw on a pair of from legs that bury themselves in the ground and latch onto people that step onto their territory, an infamous pest on the planet.
 
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Glubbfubb

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DEV UPDATE - Fixed some glitches, now trying to make the gravity less wonky, whats going on for you, I am curious Kirbeh Kirbeh ?
 

Glubbfubb

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This is a perfect design, actually, I don't know if her kit would need changes if this is the final design, what's your opinion on that matter.

ALSO GRAVITY WORKS AGAIN, AH YEAH I AM SO BACK

Also I am curious what's your cultural inspirations behind the artwork; I see a lot of origins, especially a few asian ones, though I can't put my finger on it.

Another thing, which is the better name for the smuggling ring that kidnapped Kowalski, Ahab's family is in debt too, and Chell may or may not be part of, Black Gold Gang. Astral Raptors, or Fang and Claw Syndacate, any other better names.
 

Kirbeh

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This is a perfect design, actually, I don't know if her kit would need changes if this is the final design, what's your opinion on that matter.

ALSO GRAVITY WORKS AGAIN, AH YEAH I AM SO BACK

Also I am curious what's your cultural inspirations behind the artwork; I see a lot of origins, especially a few asian ones, though I can't put my finger on it.

Another thing, which is the better name for the smuggling ring that kidnapped Kowalski, Ahab's family is in debt too, and Chell may or may not be part of, Black Gold Gang. Astral Raptors, or Fang and Claw Syndacate, any other better names.
It'll probably need a handful of changes, but I'll go over those in the move set review/rework.

Congrats on restoring gravity.

My art is primarily eastern inspired but it's a blend overall. I like a lot of Japanese artists, especially a lot of the ones that work/worked with Capcom and SNK for a lot of their fighting games. Kinu Nishimura, Bengus, Shinkiro, etc. I also like western art in superhero comics and the like. Plus, a plethora of independent artists from both sides who are in many cases also influenced by each other.

Don't know about a name for the ring honestly, I'll have to think about it. If you can give me more details about what they do, maybe some prominent members, where they're based in and primarily operate, etc. I can try to come up with something fitting. I did have something to add with Chell in particular but that'll be part of a coming post.
 

Glubbfubb

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It'll probably need a handful of changes, but I'll go over those in the move set review/rework.

Congrats on restoring gravity.

My art is primarily eastern inspired but it's a blend overall. I like a lot of Japanese artists, especially a lot of the ones that work/worked with Capcom and SNK for a lot of their fighting games. Kinu Nishimura, Bengus, Shinkiro, etc. I also like western art in superhero comics and the like. Plus, a plethora of independent artists from both sides who are in many cases also influenced by each other.

Don't know about a name for the ring honestly, I'll have to think about it. If you can give me more details about what they do, maybe some prominent members, where they're based in and primarily operate, etc. I can try to come up with something fitting. I did have something to add with Chell in particular but that'll be part of a coming post.
My idea was that it was less of a singular ring and instead a whole council or crime syndicates that act as a shadowy mirror to the unified galactic government; each ring were to specialize in one niche illegalized by the goverment from animal smuggling to assassination to substance trade. Chell is not specifically aligned to the syndicates, moreso a very good hunter to hunt down a specific target, largely to satiate her love of the hunt that her larger species rejects as a whole. She has some moral standards, mainly not hunting sentients, which comes into conflict with the ambiguously sentient Kowalski. Ahab is unwillignly involved in underground boxing, unwillingly because he has to pay off debt his parents caused and subsequently put upon him. Tamm is also a target of animal smugglers since the dust she produces is a key ingredient of Puffdust, an illegal substance. Overall each syndicate does crimes, but they keep to their own bubble and don't try to encroach on the other syndicate's dealings, they try to keep out of each other's business basically.

I don't know if that sounds overly edgy or not.

One fighter concept I do want to establish is an unrepentant mobster, a truly despicable people someone can love to hate, with how there isn't a true villain this fighter would receive the audience's hatred for how unrepentantly cruel they are. To complement this they will be based off an animal everyone hates, like Chihuahuas, Seagulls, or Canadian Geese, whichever one boils people's blood more. Geese probably.
 
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Kirbeh

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One fighter concept I do want to establish is an unrepentant mobster, a truly despicable people someone can love to hate, with how there isn't a true villain this fighter would receive the audience's hatred for how unrepentantly cruel they are. To complement this they will be based off an animal everyone hates, like Chihuahuas, Seagulls, or Canadian Geese, whichever one boils people's blood more. Geese probably.
Not what I was expecting but honestly seems like a pretty funny idea.

Regarding Chell and the Syndicate, part of the coming post is a character who I made close to a month ago now.


Deran, a bounty hunter who takes jobs for both the law and crime rings alike. He's worked both with and against Chell in the past, developing a sort of one-sided rivalry. He sees her as a sort of acquaintance though doesn't get very far given her more stoic nature.

He's got a mostly complete move set which I'll be posting later in the week.

Screenshot 2024-06-09 021151.png

As for the latter idea, I actually already had two characters in the works. A loan shark mob boss (an existing character of mine I'd shelved) to serve as a villain/boss character. He's only existed in text form as I haven't drawn him yet, but he also has a mostly complete move set as he was intended for a previous platfighter idea too.

The other is still just a basic concept, being a true villainess character to fulfill the role of the ruthless huntress/femme fatale/assassin style character. I'll definitely try using the animals you listed to play around with her design. Makes for an interesting direction overall from what I was originally looking toward.

Given the cowboy/stockman-based design on Chell, over time I wound up envisioning her as a more heroic sort of character though still in the grey overall given her profession. Sort of anti-hero-like in a way. You could say Chell is like a slightly softer version of The Man With No Name while Deran is like a more brash Han Solo.
 

Glubbfubb

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Not what I was expecting but honestly seems like a pretty funny idea.

Regarding Chell and the Syndicate, part of the coming post is a character who I made close to a month ago now.


Deran, a bounty hunter who takes jobs for both the law and crime rings alike. He's worked both with and against Chell in the past, developing a sort of one-sided rivalry. He sees her as a sort of acquaintance though doesn't get very far given her more stoic nature.

He's got a mostly complete move set which I'll be posting later in the week.

View attachment 390841

As for the latter idea, I actually already had two characters in the works. A loan shark mob boss (an existing character of mine I'd shelved) to serve as a villain/boss character. He's only existed in text form as I haven't drawn him yet, but he also has a mostly complete move set as he was intended for a previous platfighter idea too.

The other is still just a basic concept, being a true villainess character to fulfill the role of the ruthless huntress/femme fatale/assassin style character. I'll definitely try using the animals you listed to play around with her design. Makes for an interesting direction overall from what I was originally looking toward.

Given the cowboy/stockman-based design on Chell, over time I wound up envisioning her as a more heroic sort of character though still in the grey overall given her profession. Sort of anti-hero-like in a way. You could say Chell is like a slightly softer version of The Man With No Name while Deran is like a more brash Han Solo.
Yeah I always like the honorable criminals despicable criminals dynamic, why do you think Golden WInd is peak. Also crocodiles are peak too, I imagine his muscular build can allow him to do some potent shoulder bashes, he can have a gun with powerful bullets but needing to reload to use them again, and maybe use his muscular tail as a command grab, that's just what I have in mind.
 

Kirbeh

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Yeah I always like the honorable criminals despicable criminals dynamic, why do you think Golden WInd is peak. Also crocodiles are peak too, I imagine his muscular build can allow him to do some potent shoulder bashes, he can have a gun with powerful bullets but needing to reload to use them again, and maybe use his muscular tail as a command grab, that's just what I have in mind.
Shoulder bashes and reloading his revolver are actually already part of the move set. One of the goals in creating him was in order to fit some of the concepts you'd originally written for Chell that I cut from her rework. Since you'd originally crammed so much into her moves, I thought it'd be a waste not to revisit those ideas with a new character. I chose a burly croc both to fit those moves and to compliment her more humanoid but snake-like design. He's a male counterpart who is also reptilian but more overtly animal in design.

He also recycles some of the appearance requests you'd made like the necklace made from various species' teeth.

You guessed half right on the command grab though. He does make use of his tail for some attacks, but his command grab is actually inspired by a wrestling move called the dragon screw. A wrestler grabs an opponent's leg and then spins while dropping to the ground to flip them over.

Then it combines that with how crocodiles will actually fight (and mutilate) each other (and prey) by biting down on a leg and rolling over until they break or tear the limb off.

So, in this case, it's a forward lunge that has Deran bite down and lock the opponent in his jaws and then drop in a screw motion to slam them down with him.

Closest comparison is Zangief's Tundra Storm move in SFV/6.

 
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Glubbfubb

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Shoulder bashes and reloading his revolver are actually already part of the move set. One of the goals in creating him was in order to fit some of the concepts you'd originally written for Chell that I cut from her rework. Since you'd originally crammed so much into her moves, I thought it'd be a waste not to revisit those ideas with a new character. I chose a burly croc both to fit those moves and to compliment her more humanoid but snake-like design. He's a male counterpart who is also reptilian but more overtly animal in design.

You guessed half right on the command grab though. He does make use of his tail for some attacks, but his command grab is actually inspired by a wrestling move called the dragon screw. A wrestler grabs an opponent's leg and then spins while dropping to the ground to flip them over.

Then it combines that with how crocodiles will actually fight (and mutilate) each other (and prey) by biting down on a leg and rolling over until they break or tear the limb off.

So, in this case, it's a forward lunge that has Deran bite down and lock the opponent in his jaws and then drop in a screw motion to slam them down with him.

Closest comparison is Zangief's Tundra Storm move in SFV/6.

Nice that you're recontextualizing some of the original ideas for Chell in a new character, game is going a long way, I even got the walking to work just fine. Once I get the movement not janky anymore I'll be able to work on a moveset for once.

We have most archetypes covered, honestly, all that is really missing is the psychic archetype, you know, Nesses, Roses, Athenas, those people. I have some other ideas, but I have all my archetypes covered. Any archetypes were missing, either from a conceptual or gameplay standpoint.
 

Glubbfubb

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DEV UPDATE: Got Walking, Running, Crouching, and Turning working, all the base ground movement options, now it is onto the aerial stats like Jumping and stuff.
 

Kirbeh

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Nice that you're recontextualizing some of the original ideas for Chell in a new character, game is going a long way, I even got the walking to work just fine. Once I get the movement not janky anymore I'll be able to work on a moveset for once.

We have most archetypes covered, honestly, all that is really missing is the psychic archetype, you know, Nesses, Roses, Athenas, those people. I have some other ideas, but I have all my archetypes covered. Any archetypes were missing, either from a conceptual or gameplay standpoint.
I wouldn't worry too much about trying to fill each archetype/sub-archetype under the sun. We've got a pretty good spread of characters so far, going well beyond even the base roster.

Aremi, Levi, Wynnie, Weevle, LAMBDA, EPSILON, Chell, Ahab, Kowalski, Rudder, Wyrm & Tamm, Erycles, Vespa, Guy, Kalin. the Myten Queen. Deran, Mob Shark (name pending,) and the other potential villainess (probably gonna go with the Canadian Goose and use Chihuahuas (small fry syndicate thugs) and Seagulls (idk yet) for adventure mode enemies.)

For a psychic in particular though, I do have some ideas, but it depends on what kind of "psychic" you have in mind? Lore wise, Ness, Rose, and Athena all have psychic or psychic inspired powers, but they're all pretty different from each other.

Is the prompt here an invitation to try anything or were you looking for something more specific?
 

Glubbfubb

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I wouldn't worry too much about trying to fill each archetype/sub-archetype under the sun. We've got a pretty good spread of characters so far, going well beyond even the base roster.

Aremi, Levi, Wynnie, Weevle, LAMBDA, EPSILON, Chell, Ahab, Kowalski, Rudder, Wyrm & Tamm, Erycles, Vespa, Guy, Kalin. the Myten Queen. Deran, Mob Shark (name pending,) and the other potential villainess (probably gonna go with the Canadian Goose and use Chihuahuas (small fry syndicate thugs) and Seagulls (idk yet) for adventure mode enemies.)

For a psychic in particular though, I do have some ideas, but it depends on what kind of "psychic" you have in mind? Lore wise, Ness, Rose, and Athena all have psychic or psychic inspired powers, but they're all pretty different from each other.

Is the prompt here an invitation to try anything or were you looking for something more specific?
Well Kalin isn't explicitly a psychic, but she has some psycokinetic abilities, mainly her side special and down special if you think hard enough, though again she is more of a mad scientist and teslamancer than psychic. (BTW now matter what I want those two moves kept in her rework, since they are perfect for her.)

As for an actual psychic, I don't think we have seen a hacker utilize the archtype in a fighting game, and a hacker is an obvious inclusion in a sci-fi game, like NEO is one of the most iconic psychics AND hackers in film, obviously not someone like him would be include, though Agent Smith's self-replication abilities would make a fun fighter, again these are just thoughts.
 
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Glubbfubb

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I wouldn't worry too much about trying to fill each archetype/sub-archetype under the sun. We've got a pretty good spread of characters so far, going well beyond even the base roster.

Aremi, Levi, Wynnie, Weevle, LAMBDA, EPSILON, Chell, Ahab, Kowalski, Rudder, Wyrm & Tamm, Erycles, Vespa, Guy, Kalin. the Myten Queen. Deran, Mob Shark (name pending,) and the other potential villainess (probably gonna go with the Canadian Goose and use Chihuahuas (small fry syndicate thugs) and Seagulls (idk yet) for adventure mode enemies.)

For a psychic in particular though, I do have some ideas, but it depends on what kind of "psychic" you have in mind? Lore wise, Ness, Rose, and Athena all have psychic or psychic inspired powers, but they're all pretty different from each other.

Is the prompt here an invitation to try anything or were you looking for something more specific?
I've been thinking, would it work that the villainess is based off the praying mantis, i know its not an animal everyone hates, but it fits the personality you're going for, female mantises eat their husbands for peet sake, and orchid mantises would be something cool to base a fighter on. Just a thought on the matter.
 
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Kirbeh

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I've been thinking, would it work that the villainess is based off the praying mantis, i know its not an animal everyone hates, but it fits the personality you're going for, female mantises eat their husbands for peet sake, and orchid mantises would be something cool to base a fighter on. Just a thought on the matter.
You need to back off and get out of my head. How'd you know I was already making a mantis character?

Jokes aside, in a similar vein to Deran, I did have a mantis inspired character as part of a species that are relatives to the G'nats and took some elements that didn't make it onto weevles kit. Only difference is that she's not a villain.
 

Glubbfubb

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You need to back off and get out of my head. How'd you know I was already making a mantis character?

Jokes aside, in a similar vein to Deran, I did have a mantis inspired character as part of a species that are relatives to the G'nats and took some elements that didn't make it onto weevles kit. Only difference is that she's not a villain.
I mean insects and reptiles are the go-to alien species, and its only inevitable that we have some similar ideas.
 

Glubbfubb

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I know, I was only joking. Still an interesting coincidence though.
Yeah, if your wondering, my kit concept was going to revolve around trapping, using boomerang scythes to catch opponents, while finishing them off with a vice grip command grab.
 

Cyber-DJ

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Shield Idea:
Weak Shield: Weaker, has more hitstun, easier to shieldpoke, more startup and endlag

Strong Shield: Steonger, less hitstun, can't shieldpoke, less startup and end lag, costs 2 bars of meter

This sound plausible?
 

Glubbfubb

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Shield Idea:
Weak Shield: Weaker, has more hitstun, easier to shieldpoke, more startup and endlag

Strong Shield: Steonger, less hitstun, can't shieldpoke, less startup and end lag, costs 2 bars of meter

This sound plausible?
That could work, I want to retool it to cost 1 bar of meter, just like how the hyper specials work.
 

Glubbfubb

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So hey Kirbeh Kirbeh and Cyber-DJ Cyber-DJ I had an idea for a more original take on the classic wavedashing.

When you are in a direction and press the corresponding back trigger (so if your right and you press the right trigger for example) you perform a Roll, this roll gives you burst movement forward while low-profileing certain projectiles and attacks. You can roll cancel by pulling the joystick in the opposite direction, stopping you early.

If you press the back trigger opposite while standing (pressing the left trigger while facing right, for example), you Backdash. Backdashes go farther than rolls, but obviously, since you're facing the opposite direction where you're moving, it's harder to control. You also won't low profile attacks like the roll, but this action can be used to dodge against other incoming attacks, so you trade accuracy and low profile with better mobility.

When you use the right stick for Charge Attacks while doing these maneuvers, you can cancel them but keep the momentum they create, allowing a Burst Cancel Into Charge Attack, or BCICA. So in a way this is both a successor to wavedashing from Melee and DACUS from Brawl.

There is a bit of cooldown when using these, like you have to wait 3-5 frames before using them again, so they can't be spammed to high heavens, thereby making them balanced. When the back triggers are used in the air you can directional air dodge, in case your wondering.
 
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Glubbfubb

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I also have an alternative idea to this concept. When you move left or right initially, you will always walk, by walk, I mean move at your BASE speed. You have a minimum and maximum base speed value when walking, which lower and increase depending on how you tilt the stick. When you press the trigger in the direction you are walking you will do a dashroll, which then takes you to running speed. The dashroll has the player tuck their bodies in initially to low profile, before going back to their normal hitboxes when running. Here is the twist, you can only dashroll while walking, you can't while running, so you have to stop in order to use another dashroll, this means you will lose out on the burst movement option and evasive tool when you run, creating a risk reward system. how does that idea sound. Backdashing still works the same way as stated in the previous post. I feel this can give the game a nice, unique feel from Smash bros, in theory making the game more fast pace but also more exact since you don't have to worry about tilting the stick too hard, forcing you to move in a way you don't. Is that a good idea?

One issue with that is speed tiers will be much more tricky to balance, since everyone moves between one speed tier and the another while having the ability to burst into another speed tier on the fly. Someone with Ganondorf tier speed just will not work, but there will of course be heavy weights. In terms of speed, they would likely be more akin to either DK who has balanced speed, or Charizard/Bowser who have slow walks but fast dashes. However there is a chance Smash's speed tiers just won't work to reference in a system like this, we need to make our own, and that is just harder to measure since now there is no baseline. However, it also gives the game a more original feel, which is always appreciated.

For now, right trigger is dashing, left is backdashing (you can swap in options), left stick is movement, right stick is charge attacks, and tilts are independent from charge attacks, so no more wanting to use a tilt but accidentally using a charge attack and vice versa. It should be noted, Kirbeh Kirbeh that when you turn around while running, after turning you go back to walking, so keep that in mind when making animations.
 
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Glubbfubb

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Okay, third time I am tagging you guys, but I think I finnally perfected the controls, tell me how you think of it, this uses a Switch Pro Controller as reference:

B - Jump, includes Shorthops and Fullhops, which work just like they do in Smash Bros.

Y - Neutral Attacks, the Left Stick determines the direction of the attack.

A - Special Attacks

*The logic here is that you press B to jump, and you press the button to the left for netural attacks and the button to the right for special attacks.

X - Meter - Spend a segment of meter while using special attacks to enhance it, if press it by yourself you will spend a segment of meter to shield. Shields can be used on both the ground and air, but not only are aerial shields weaker than ground shields, but more prone to knockback. Press the meter and neutral buttons together to perform a Hypermax Attack.

Left Stick - Left and Right - Move left and right, you have a minimum and maximum walk speed that will change based on how you tug the stick.

Left Stick - Down - Crouch on the ground, fastfall in the air

Left Stick - Up - Interact with background items such as opening doors, talking to NPCs, or pressing buttons;

Right Stick - Charge Attacks

*Charge Attacks won't activate when you use neutral tilts in a specific way, thereby prevent accidental charge attacks.

Shoulder Buttons - Grabs, in the air you directional air dodge.

Left Trigger - Backdash - Dash backwards for both burst movement and evading certain attacks, at the cost of less control than the Rolldashes.,

Right Trigger - Rolldash - Dash while rolling to low profile against certain attacks, transitions you to running speed, shorter distant than Backdashes but you have more control.

*See previous posts for more nuances on the previous two functions.

+ - Taunts, taunts are always good.

I think these controls are perfect, but Cyber-DJ Cyber-DJ and Kirbeh Kirbeh I need your feedback. Do they work for you guys?
 
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Cyber-DJ

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Swap A and B's function. Everything else looks good to me. But of course, you can always just put an edit controls funcfion so the "oficial" alignment doesn't matter too much.
The base you have is fine Btw
 

Glubbfubb

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Swap A and B's function. Everything else looks good to me. But of course, you can always just put an edit controls funcfion so the "oficial" alignment doesn't matter too much.
The base you have is fine Btw
Potential idea, the issue is that it's harder to press X and B at the same time rather than X and A, I'll look into that though.
 

Kirbeh

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I'm in opposition to these proposals.

Something as basic as running shouldn't have these extra steps in between. Having more advanced movement mechanics/options is fine, but forcing players to roll just to enter their run animation is clunky. Especially if they have to constantly perform this stop and go process just to move around.

The universal low-profile mechanic also falls flat. On an individual basis, we already have characters with moves that can low profile. And this only works for these characters in the first place because they're small. Curling up isn't going to do much for large-bodied characters like LAMBDA, Rudder, Vespa, etc.

Rather than creating a separation in forward and back evasive options, it'd make more sense to just alter the properties on a character basis.

Do a standard shield/guard button and tie the rolls/back dash to it. Then adjust the properties accordingly to fit each character.

Kowalski, for example, is a character focused on spacing and zoning, so he could have a long back dash to put distance between himself and the opponent and a short forward roll since he doesn't actually want to get too close when moving forward.

I also still stand behind the idea that a dedicated meter button would serve better on a shoulder or trigger button instead of the face buttons. Especially in cases where two buttons need to be pressed at the same time, you can always access the meter button using an index finger.
 

Glubbfubb

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I'm in opposition to these proposals.

Something as basic as running shouldn't have these extra steps in between. Having more advanced movement mechanics/options is fine, but forcing players to roll just to enter their run animation is clunky. Especially if they have to constantly perform this stop and go process just to move around.

The universal low-profile mechanic also falls flat. On an individual basis, we already have characters with moves that can low profile. And this only works for these characters in the first place because they're small. Curling up isn't going to do much for large-bodied characters like LAMBDA, Rudder, Vespa, etc.

Rather than creating a separation in forward and back evasive options, it'd make more sense to just alter the properties on a character basis.

Do a standard shield/guard button and tie the rolls/back dash to it. Then adjust the properties accordingly to fit each character.

Kowalski, for example, is a character focused on spacing and zoning, so he could have a long back dash to put distance between himself and the opponent and a short forward roll since he doesn't actually want to get too close when moving forward.

I also still stand behind the idea that a dedicated meter button would serve better on a shoulder or trigger button instead of the face buttons. Especially in cases where two buttons need to be pressed at the same time, you can always access the meter button using an index finger.
The sheild idea was made in response to the fact you were going to use the whole "standard block can be enhanced into a sheild with meter" in your game, so I didn't want to encroach, my goal is to have a unique feel from Smash Bros and therefore justify more of an identity.

How about this, the shoulders are used to guard, but you can roll by pressing left or right, you can also do these maneuvers while moving too, backdashing is now the same as rolling, just backwards from a guard. It should be noted that these rolls don't give invincibility, only by spotdoging, which is done by pressing down while guarding, can be used to get invincibility on the ground. If you not iffy on this, you can use the meter to enhance the guard into a shield, and when in the air you can use a weaker air shield that has the benefits of being a shield in the air. Left trigger can be used for grabs, and the right trigger for meter, since that is the side of the face buttons.

Of course, that is if you're okay with it, since you said you had a similiar idea with your project.
 
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Kirbeh

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I'm going to present an alternative, let me know what you think.

Meter - Gets a dedicated button on either a shoulder or bumper, I'm defaulting to R for this explanation (using the Switch Pro controller as the control model).

Meter can be spent to perform Hypermax Moves or enhance or gain different utility on other commands.

The attack button (A) is used for Hypermax Moves. So, A + R.

Specials (B button) become Hyper Specials. B + R.

Shielding and dodging are mapped to L.

L by itself puts up the shield, tilting left or right will dodge in that direction. Pressing down will spot dodge.

In the air, neutral L will spot dodge and you can press left, right, up, or down to dodge in that direction. Air dodges are also, in general, shorter and laggier than their ground equivalents.

The shield on its own is not tied to meter but is still a limited resource. Shield energy will slowly drain for as long as the shield is kept active, with attacks draining it faster.

Each character's shield will have differing amounts of "health." When completely drained, you can no longer use it, and must rely on dodging to avoid attacks until the shield gauge completely refills (which it does over time on its own so long as you're not in hitstun.)

Quick edit: The shield would have an actual gauge or counter of some kind in the HUD. Perhaps right above the damage counter on character portraits?

If your shield is broken, the attack that broke it will land and the opponent can continue attacking. (Rather than doing the whole shield pop that Smash does and forcing an opponent's combo to stop, they can just keep going with what they were doing.)

L + R performs a Shield Push, pushing away opponents when they try to attack. (This would basically serve as a platfighter version of push-blocking like in Capcom's VS series.) Useful for getting out of shield pressure, but at the cost of some meter.

While shielding cannot be done in the air, you can still use the Shield Push (now Air Push) to get opponents off you without sacrificing your position. This is useful if dodging in a particular direction might still put you in harm's way. (Especially in multiplayer matches with more than 2 players like doubles or free-for-alls.)

Adding R to a dodge will change the dodge into a Wavedash, exchanging invulnerability for a fast movement/offense tool.

You would need to perform L + R + left or right on the stick. You wouldn't be able to turn a dodge into a wavedash part way through of course. You still need to commit to whichever one you use in that moment.

Wavedashing can be canceled into either a Normal Attack or a Charge Attack. (There's your DACUS equivalent.)

The aerial equivalent changes the standard Air Dodge into an Air Escape. At the cost of some meter, this serves as a defense and recovery tool, covering greater distance than an air dodge and doing so faster. It provides the same amount of invulnerability at the start but does also benefit from having a little less end lag than a standard dodge.

Like Up Specials, you can only perform this once (resetting after landing.) The cost is also higher than that of a Shield Push, Wavedash and even Hyper Specials, so it's best reserved for emergencies.

The actual names of these things I'm less concerned about, and the button mappings are flexible (to a degree, we should be aiming for controls that feel comfortable), but as actual mechanics, let me know what you think.

I think this offers something different from Smash without overlapping with my project or other platfighters on the market.
 

Glubbfubb

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I'm going to present an alternative, let me know what you think.

Meter - Gets a dedicated button on either a shoulder or bumper, I'm defaulting to R for this explanation (using the Switch Pro controller as the control model).

Meter can be spent to perform Hypermax Moves or enhance or gain different utility on other commands.

The attack button (A) is used for Hypermax Moves. So, A + R.

Specials (B button) become Hyper Specials. B + R.

Shielding and dodging are mapped to L.

L by itself puts up the shield, tilting left or right will dodge in that direction. Pressing down will spot dodge.

In the air, neutral L will spot dodge and you can press left, right, up, or down to dodge in that direction. Air dodges are also, in general, shorter and laggier than their ground equivalents.

The shield on its own is not tied to meter but is still a limited resource. Shield energy will slowly drain for as long as the shield is kept active, with attacks draining it faster.

Each character's shield will have differing amounts of "health." When completely drained, you can no longer use it, and must rely on dodging to avoid attacks until the shield gauge completely refills (which it does over time on its own so long as you're not in hitstun.)

Quick edit: The shield would have an actual gauge or counter of some kind in the HUD. Perhaps right above the damage counter on character portraits?

If your shield is broken, the attack that broke it will land and the opponent can continue attacking. (Rather than doing the whole shield pop that Smash does and forcing an opponent's combo to stop, they can just keep going with what they were doing.)

L + R performs a Shield Push, pushing away opponents when they try to attack. (This would basically serve as a platfighter version of push-blocking like in Capcom's VS series.) Useful for getting out of shield pressure, but at the cost of some meter.

While shielding cannot be done in the air, you can still use the Shield Push (now Air Push) to get opponents off you without sacrificing your position. This is useful if dodging in a particular direction might still put you in harm's way. (Especially in multiplayer matches with more than 2 players like doubles or free-for-alls.)

Adding R to a dodge will change the dodge into a Wavedash, exchanging invulnerability for a fast movement/offense tool.

You would need to perform L + R + left or right on the stick. You wouldn't be able to turn a dodge into a wavedash part way through of course. You still need to commit to whichever one you use in that moment.

Wavedashing can be canceled into either a Normal Attack or a Charge Attack. (There's your DACUS equivalent.)

The aerial equivalent changes the standard Air Dodge into an Air Escape. At the cost of some meter, this serves as a defense and recovery tool, covering greater distance than an air dodge and doing so faster. It provides the same amount of invulnerability at the start but does also benefit from having a little less end lag than a standard dodge.

Like Up Specials, you can only perform this once (resetting after landing.) The cost is also higher than that of a Shield Push, Wavedash and even Hyper Specials, so it's best reserved for emergencies.

The actual names of these things I'm less concerned about, and the button mappings are flexible (to a degree, we should be aiming for controls that feel comfortable), but as actual mechanics, let me know what you think.

I think this offers something different from Smash without overlapping with my project or other platfighters on the market.
I like these concepts, but one issue is that failing a wavedash may risk wasting meters on a sheild push. Can you also elaborate on the mechanics of a sheild push since I am unfamiliar with that concept. Since there are 6 segments of meter, how much should an Air Escape cost to you? Also you forgot grabs, where would those map too?
 
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Kirbeh

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I like these concepts, but one issue is that failing a wavedash may risk wasting meters on a sheild push. Can you also elaborate on the mechanics of a sheild push since I am unfamiliar with that concept. Since there are 6 segments of meter, how much should an Air Escape cost to you? Also you forgot grabs, where would those map too?
The Shield Push is based on push blocking/advancing guard.

While blocking, you press buttons to literally push the opponent away from you. It's a defensive tool in games like Marvel vs Capcom.

Like the traditional FG counterpart, Shield Push would require you to be in block stun to actually activate. You're not going to be using the Shield Push from a distance like when trying to get in with a Wavedash, and again, you only get access to the Shield Push if you're already being attacked, so there's no risking of doing one when trying for the other.

As for actual cost, I did actually forget that you wanted to break the meter into segments. In that case, I would say Shield Push, Wavedash and Hyper Specials cost 1, Air Escape costs 2.

I do have to ask how exactly you plan to work in Hypermax moves into this system. I'd honestly say, giving Hypermaxes a dedicated super meter might be for the best too. A six-stock meter with a base cost of 1 per action seems pretty low, especially when players are going to want to make good use of those extra tools.

Old video, but good, basic explanation of advancing guard/push block in vanilla MvC3.

 
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