Data Shulk patch thread

[Goesasu]

ok backslash startup frame got reduced!!! how useful is this? time to lab it up.

Down throw angle seems iffy to me, in a bad way.

aiir slash got a new animation effect like a wave of energy when the blade go upwards. its cool.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Down air does 17% instead of 18%.

EDIT: I done goofed.

 

[Masonomace]

It seems like U-air was changed in some way but I can't figure that out atm.

Down air does 17% instead of 18%.

You may wanna re-check. D-air's hitboxes differ depending on whether the opponent is grounded or airborne. The 1st hit grounded will deal 7% & 5% if hitting in the air. The 2nd hit will deal 11% sweetspotted with the Blade sweetspot or 10% with the Beam sourspot

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I believe Back Slash was the main change, according to the Dantarion Data Dump. What that records and what could slip by it I have no clue (apparently Shield weight may have increased?)

 

[Nammy12]

His frame data is still the same for smashes/tilts/aerials.
AS still frame 10, and I'll assume vision was left alone as well.

Lemme get a gif of backslash up.

 

[Masonomace]

His frame data is still the same for smashes/tilts/aerials.
AS still frame 10, and I'll assume vision was left alone as well.

Lemme get a gif of backslash up.

@MASTERLINKX posted this in the skype group:
http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1438310100688.webm

 

[foolssigma]

http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1438310100688.webm

This was posted in the change log thread for backslash

Edit: 'd

 

[Berserker.]

Any differences with the art mechanics (notably shield art)?

 

[Nammy12]

Apparently Shulk's up air received changes as well.
Can't figure out what it is though. Maybe made it easier to link into the second hit?
The startup is the same.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/shulk.html

Also, backslash's endlag is still the same.
*edit* I'm 99% sure on this. At most, there is a frame difference.

 

[Berserker.]

Back Slash is actually usable now. As in, for punishing tech rolls and doing it off from b-throw. It's also better for dealing with projectile camping

So yeah. I'll see if there are other changes. I'm kinda doubting it though. The shield art buff may need waaay more testing

 

[erico9001]

According to @SiLeNtDo0m, Back Slash has a frame speed modifier rather than a change to the asynchronous timer. And according to one of his mates who did frame by frame comparison, it's frame 25 instead of 31. This makes it faster than Back Slash Leap

Nair now combos into Back slash, and in Vanilla, works on ROB at 60%. Works til later percents with Monado Jump. I can confirm that back slash leap does not combo at this percent, even with monado jump, which allows Shulk to get closer. This confirms that it is faster than back slash leap.

We can also see that it has an animation change.

Uair...
Well, it has the same damage, knockback, and seems to have the same range. Idk.

 

[Berserker.]

I think it's possible to squeeze in the back hit with the right spacing. I'll try labbing it

Not observing any other changes at the moment. Shield art needs to be tested though

 

[erico9001]

So, Boxing Ring has almost exactly the same vertical blast zones on wii U and on 3ds

On Smash Wii U updated, Shield mode does not die from Shulk's uncharged up smash at 164%, and does at 165%. This is the same for the 3ds version. Shield mode is not buffed in terms of knockback taken.

 

[Berserker.]

So, the only confirmed change at the moment is Back Slash starting at F25 now? I'll wait on u-air though. There may have been change with the aerial but idk exactly what it could be (maybe its ability to connect or the hitbox placement?) Alright

So, Shulk's frame data is unchanged, his auto-cancels are still garbage, back slash is usable now.... I'll try double checking just to be sure

Edit: I feel like I'm wasting time with testing the KB. It's all the same to me

 

[drogoth232]

I have a good background in brawl modding so I can read the code to some degree, here's the changes that are on Dantarion's mastercore. Just giving general stuff, nothing specific until I get more time.

Up Air has a new hitbox with almost hte same data as it's previous hitbox. One value was changed which seems to be KB
It's secondary hitbox seems to have gotten a damage buff

Back Slash: It has something triggered on frame 1 (or frame 2, synchronous timers are weird), not sure what. Obviously not a hitbox. Something else also gets triggered on frame 31, but the attack itself ALSO starts on frame 31. I'd wager that the two unknowns are probably frame speed modifiers seeing as how people are saying it comes out faster (which slow up or speed down a move depending on the multiplier you give it).

You guys can choose to believe me or not, but I implore you guys to check out my background in brawl coding both on Smashboards and KCMM. (I think the only person who knows me is Erico lol )

 

[Number Three]

Back Slash is usable now! Today is a good day!

 

[Berserker.]

Alright then. I'll add the mentioned changes

Anyone can double check on the landing lag and ending lag on Shulk's moves (@ Nammy12 or @ erico9001 or @ Masonomace ) ?

 

[Berserker.]

An extra hit box? Hmmm interesting. I wonder how it will affect U air.

Also, apparently, dash attack has less cooldown. How true could it be?

Gif:
http://gfycat.com/WelloffSereneDiscus
I dunno as its 3ds and wii u comparison.

 

[Rawbinator]

Is the dash attack change legit? The post in community notes says the bottom is 1.0.0

 

[Berserker.]

Is the dash attack change legit? The post in community notes says the bottom is 1.0.0

Dash attack's ending lag wasn't changed since 1.0.0

So yeah it's legit

 

[Nammy12]

@ Berserker. I might be going a bit crazy but I'm not so sure on that dash attack buff.

1.08 3DS and 1.10 Wii U

I counted the frames and they look the same.

 

[Berserker.]

I asked for help to double check Shulk's FAF and landing lag frames so we'll know if Shaya's gonna scratch his head or not about dash attack. Lol

 

[monadoboyy]

I still don't get the uair buff, looks the same to me. Were you always able to hit people with the 10% hitbox out of a SH if your back is facing the opponent? You have to be really close.

 

[Berserker.]

I still don't get the uair buff, looks the same to me

Horizontal coverage was slightly increased according to the files. Knock back angle of the new hitbox is 96 degrees

 

[kenniky]

Uair first hit has a new hitbox, angle 100 -> 100/96, WKB 60 -> 80/60, size 5.5 units -> 6.2/6.0 units; second hit size 3.5/5.5 units -> 3.8/6.5 units

it basically got bigger

 

[Goesasu]

Can someone else please verify downthrown knockback angle seems weird to me, like stronger.

i cant combo it into Dbuster ftilt anymore only fsmash.

 

[Berserker.]

Can someone else please verify downthrown knockback angle seems weird to me, like stronger.

i cant combo it into Dbuster ftilt anymore only fsmash.

There weren't any mentions of d-throw in Dant's patch list

Oh, and the Monado art mechanics definitely didn't change at all. Double-confirmed by Dantarion's patch list

 

[Goesasu]

There weren't any mentions of d-throw in Dant's patch list

Oh, and the Monado art mechanics definitely didn't change at all. Double-confirmed by Dantarion's patch list

thanks, must be placebo then.

 

[Berserker.]

So far, with the patch list, files, etc. and the unnecessary ;-; testing of checking his damage output and KB, here's how the list for 1.1.0 looks for Shulk. Random note to add: Shulk's final smash with smash art has 222 KB so no. Smash art wasn't changed either. Shield art wasn't changed either. Buster art, jump art, and speed are the same ****. Ending lag and landing lag differences are yet to be found yet.... (except maybe dash attack)
1.1.0

Frame data
Back Slash start up decreased (Frame 31 >> Frame 25)
Dash attack end lag decreased (?)
U-air's 1st hit angle: 100 > 100/96
U-air's 1st hit WKB 60 > 80/60
U-air's 1st hit range 5.5u > 6.2u/6.0u (First hit)
U-air's 2nd hit range 3.5u/5.5u > 3.8u/6.5u (Second hit)

Monado art mechanics are still the same

Damage outputs for Shulk
Jab 1 3.5% >> 3.5%
Jab 2 3.5% >> 3.5%
Jab 3 (Sweetspot) 5.3% >> 5.3%
Jab 3 (Sourspot) 4.2% >> 4.2%
Dash attack 11% >> 11%
F-tilt (Sweetspot) 13% >> 13%
F-tilt (Sourspot) 11.5% >> 11.5%
D-tilt (Sweetspot) 9% >> 9%
D-tilt (Sourspot) 7% >> 7%
F-smash 18.5% >> 18.5%
U-smash 18% >> 18%
D-smash (Sweetspot, up close) 14% >> 14%
N-air (Tip) 8% >> 8%
N-air (Base) 7% >> 7%
F-air (Base) 7.5% >> 7.5%
F-air (Tip) 6% >> 6%
B-air (Base) 12% >> 12%
B-air (Tip) 8% >> 8%
U-air 15% >> 15%
D-air 18% >> 18%
Back Slash 16% >> 16%
Air Slash 11.5% >> 11.5%
B-throw 12% >> 12%
F-throw 11% >> 11%
U-throw 7% >> 7%
D-throw 7% >> 7%

Patch KB values for Shulk
Dash attack 132 >> 132
F-tilt (Blade) 134 >> 134
D-tilt (Blade) 112 >> 112
U-tilt (Blade) 122 >> 122

F-smash (Sweetspot/No tilting/Full charge) 223 >> 223
D-smash (Up close, front hit/Full charge) 205 >> 205
U-smash (Up close/Full charge) 208 >> 208

N-air (Base hit) 103 >> 103
F-air (Base hit) 110 >> 110
B-air (Sweetspot) 139 >> 139
D-air (Sweetspot) 124 >> 124
U-air (Sweetspot) 139 >> 139

Back slash (Base, Back hit) 170 >> 170
Air slash 138 >> 138

D-throw 112 >> 112
F-throw 99 >> 99
B-throw 104 >> 104
U-throw 83 >> 83

Techs
MALLC and MADC are still in
Deactivation buffering is still in

 

[erico9001]

I can't test end-lag because I have no means of testing the two versions of the game with the same amount of latency. If I'm using my tv screen or my gamepad screen, there is latency, when there is none with me 3ds screen.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

So apparently the Back Slash buff was better than we thought!

Finished taking a general look at all characters endlag on moves with side by side comparisons between pre and post-patch. Though many of these have been confirmed since I started work on it last night. I only checked the custom moves of specials that have been changed, not every single one. And my setup did not allow me to look at dash grabs and pivot grabs. And I didn't check DLC characters because I only had them on one version of the game, and can't input my codes for 3DS without updating the system. Now, the results are:
Shulk – Side B startup reduced, but total frames is unchanged. Custom Side Bs do not share this change.

Shulk's Back Slash start-up reduced by 9 frames, from 31 -> 22

Shulk's Back Slash total frames (on level ground) reduced by 1 frame, from 73 -> 72

Zapp and Will: The Super Frame Bros.

Any other frame changes you think were made, let me know and I'll check. Gonna finish going through Sheik's frame data tomorrow.

Frame 22. With the jump it's basically a ranged smash attack that we can use in the air at this point.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Keep in mind though that the hitbox on frame 22 is when he's at about the apex of his jump. Standing opponents will be hit on around frame 23-25 depending on their size.

It's kinda like Link's dash attack now.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

True, though that's still nice to surprise folks on platforms. Especially if they've taken a little shield damage and then WHAM Buster Back Slash shield break.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Oh baby, you know what I like to do? Activate jump arts in the neutral and menace my opponent like a drone where they can't catch me in the air. Then when they whiff an attack up at me, I punish with backslash from behind where they're facing. It's not like they can turn around while airborne. Foolproof.

<- - Doesn't play Shulk competitively.

Hey so I've checked and double checked Shulk's dash attack and I'm not seeing a difference in endlag between pre and post patch.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Interesting...thanks a bunch for checking again! Guess dash attack is still dash attack.

 

[RevolverTurtle]

Nice to see Shulk buffs, to me it looks like they've buffed the characters that actually takes effort to play like Shulk, Robin and Greninja... But then again I caught wind they buffed Luigi which I can't see why for the life of me...

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Found the evidence for shulk's dash attack. I'm quite puzzled. I'm doing the same thing here and the dash attacks end at the same point for me. There are many undocumented changes to character IASA frames in all previous patches, so maybe the 3DS in this gif is older than 1.08? Maybe he failed to hold the shield button at the same time as the wii u version? If anybody knows the creator of this, let me know.

 

[Masonomace]

I did a just-in-case check kind of thing with Back Slash's fall phase looking slower by testing Jump art, & it doesn't affect the fall speed. I also checked to see if Jump Speed or Shield affected the jump height to it & learned that they still don't. Eh

 

[gridatttack]

With the slow starting backslash, you can actually catch opponents easier in the air after they air dodged, as you are almost falling at the same speed. before you went too fast. I guess it depends on the character too.

Found the evidence for shulk's dash attack..

I shared the same gif I found on the patch thread. However, based on the game data dump, they only listed U air and Back Slash, so perhaps the dash attack reduced cooldown is a hoax :<

 

[kenniky]

Data dump doesn't include faf afaik