Shroom for the Stars: Captain Toad for Smash 4! CHAPTER 11: IT'S A MII; TOAD!

[Arcadenik]

Why can't we have both?

Smash Toad's default costume could be THE Toad and the alternate costume is Captain Toad... or vice versa.

 

[jigglover]

Actually I totally wouldn't mind that.

Also I don't want Toad, I want CAPTAIN Toad.

Me too, actually. Wario functions better with moves from Wario Land and Warioware because he is a very discernable and unqieu character compared to the rest of the series he is in in both appearances.

However, Captain Toad using attacks from SMB2, for example, would just be strange. It doesn't fit captain toad, becuase while they are officially the same person, they have very dofferent personalities and feels.

 

[Arcadenik]

Me too, actually. Wario functions better with moves from Wario Land and Warioware because he is a very discernable and unqieu character compared to the rest of the series he is in in both appearances.

However, Captain Toad using attacks from SMB2, for example, would just be strange. It doesn't fit captain toad, becuase while they are officially the same person, they have very dofferent personalities and feels.

And yet we have Captain Toad throwing turnips in his own game... the same ability found in SMB2. So I don't think Captain Toad using SMB2 moves is out of character.

 

[YoshiandToad]

And yet we have Captain Toad throwing turnips in his own game... the same ability found in SMB2. So I don't think Captain Toad using SMB2 moves is out of character.

This is true. If he starts throwing subcon potions, unless that's in Captain Toad Treasure Tracker, I'll agree THAT might be a little odd.

It's a little too early to tell what options are available to the Captain outside the Pickaxe, Turnips, Minecart and Headlamp(which is the one thing that wouldn't translate into a default Toad costume) but I'm certainly going to be keeping an eye out for any other mechanics within the game that may work in a fun Captain Toad moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

Captain Toad is the closest thing to a real "THE Toad" to exist.
And since he's getting his own game....yeah, he would be a welcome addition.

Just make him ditch the backpack so he can jump.

 

[smashbro29]

Christ this is the most pointless thing ever.

 

[GM_3826]

This is a strange idea. As a recovery I could think of Captain Toad throwing his backpack up to the stage and following his backpack after having thrown it. For the jump thing he could with each jump have things falling of his backpack(which have no influence on other fighters and are purely for a certain explanation of why Captain Toad suddenly is able to jump)

I like this as an idea, but I think Sakurai is too worried about not respecting the rules Captain Toad has to accept in his game(s).

Alright, sorry, I just get a bit moody sometimes. Yeah, I guess that's kinda both a point for and against Captain Toad.
In case you're wondering, I was never a Toad supporter. I'm just here because in Japan, Toad is a similar situation to Ridley. Everyone wants them in, but it just isn't thought of as likely, because "He's too big," "He's a boss," and "He's a special." If he was added along with Ridley, it would mean both sides of the fandom, Western and Eastern, would get what they truly want.

 

[Arcadenik]

Really? Toad is the Ridley of Japan...?

 

[GM_3826]

Really? Toad is the Ridley of Japan...?

Here. http://smashboards.com/threads/obse...es-desires-for-smash-4-by-chronobound.338160/

Also, its important noting that Toad is very popular in Japan, though this does not translate to Smash Bros. requests since these is a deep pessimism that his permanent role in the Smash Bros. series is as Peach's special. If such pessimism did not exist, Toad would definitely be amongst the most wanted newcomers for Smash 4 in Japan (possibly in the A-tier range).

 

[YoshiandToad]

Really? Toad is the Ridley of Japan...?

I'm a little skeptical on this one, even as a huge Toad fan.

It's true he IS very popular in Japan, to the point he was the 8th most popular video game character in Japan one year...not Mario character, Video game character.

However, the support for Toad allegedly has been hindered by his role as Peach's meatshield whilst Ridley fans in the west are tenacious despite their setbacks and as a result he's less called for than Ridley is over here even though their situations of being well known Nintendo icons forced into NPC roles are similar;

Also, its important noting that Toad is very popular in Japan, though this does not translate to Smash Bros. requests since these is a deep pessimism that his permanent role in the Smash Bros. series is as Peach's special. If such pessimism did not exist, Toad would definitely be amongst the most wanted newcomers for Smash 4 in Japan (possibly in the A-tier range).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Captain Toad started getting this level of support over there for Smash 5/Smash 4 DLC character after Treasure Tracker is released. He is a very iconic character(or his species is) and being the star of a game probably won't hurt his support cause in future titles.

 

[GM_3826]

I'm a little skeptical on this one, even as a huge Toad fan.

It's true he IS very popular in Japan, to the point he was the 8th most popular video game character in Japan one year...not Mario character, Video game character.

However, the support for Toad allegedly has been hindered by his role as Peach's meatshield whilst Ridley fans in the west are tenacious despite their setbacks and as a result he's less called for than Ridley is over here even though their situations of being well known Nintendo icons forced into NPC roles are similar;



That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Captain Toad started getting this level of support over there for Smash 5/Smash 4 DLC character after Treasure Tracker is released. He is a very iconic character(or his species is) and being the star of a game probably won't hurt his support cause in future titles.

Yeah, I know, not necessarily the best comparison. But Japan has a tighter lip. They can't have the Japanese Smash fans rioting about Toad being included. Plus, being a special is much much more pessimism-inducing then being a boss. It implies there's even less in store for him.

 

[fogbadge]

Really? Toad is the Ridley of Japan...?

i doubt it there is no way toad is to big

 

[Rasumii]

Captain Toad, woo.

 

[Bowserlick]

I am not sure about the Captain. He has a headlamp and that is about it.

I think a Toad with a SMB2 and 3d World build would work the best. I suggested Toad with rocket boots pre-Brawl as a homage to Mario Kart, but now it seems that Zamus has implemented that idea.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Amiibos are compatible with Captain Toad's Treasure Tracker... Hmmm...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Captain Toad is a 2015 game though correct?

So at most I can see (unless Toad's been hidden from us this entire time) him being DLC and not starting roster.

 

[powerprotoman]

Captain Toad is a 2015 game though correct?

So at most I can see (unless Toad's been hidden from us this entire time) him being DLC and not starting roster.

comes out this holiday

 

[Tree Gelbman]

****. Like I need more to buy this damn year for Wii U.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's what I think. Captain Toad's thing is he can't jump under his own power so I'm thinking he keeps a bunch of Mario Power-ups in his back-pack to help him.

For example his standard jump is a spring coming out from the bottom of his pack to launch him upwards.

 

[jigglover]

Here's what I think. Captain Toad's thing is he can't jump under his own power so I'm thinking he keeps a bunch of Mario Power-ups in his back-pack to help him.

For example his standard jump is a spring coming out from the bottom of his pack to launch him upwards.

I already gave an answer to that, though.

The blowy fan platforms from SM3DW's Captain Toad levels. They can just appear and move him up.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I already gave an answer to that, though.

The blowy fan platforms from SM3DW's Captain Toad levels. They can just appear and move him up.

That sounds more like his Up-B. I was talking standard jumping.

Bonus points if he screams in surprise during it.

 

[jigglover]

That sounds more like his Up-B. I was talking standard jumping.

Bonus points if he screams in surprise during it.

Nah I meant it as jumps. It would make him a unique fighter. Fabulous recovery, but susceptible to camping.

 

[fogbadge]

if worse comes to worse they can always give him a jet pack in his rucksack

 

[BluePikmin11]

This game better not be $60, I have a feeling if it's that price, tons of people won't buy Captain Toad's game.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Mine Cart bunny hops maybe?

Ladders? Pipes? Unsure.

This game better not be $60, I have a feeling if it's that price, tons of people won't buy Captain Toad's game.

Yeah, this is a big fear as well for me. How much do puzzle games retail at?

That said it's a puzzler with boss battles, but full price is going to be asking a lot for a non platform adventure...if the game turns out to be quite long with enough variation, fair enough but it'll take some really good reviews to make people want to pay $60.

 

[Deleted member]

I already gave an answer to that, though.

The blowy fan platforms from SM3DW's Captain Toad levels. They can just appear and move him up.

I gave an answer too; make him ditch the backpack.

It's not like he needs it, right?
If he does, then how about a gimmick where you can wear the backpack, which gives you access to certain moves and makes you really hard to knock off the stage, but you can't jump.
If you need to jump, you can take the backpack off, which also makes you faster, but you lose access to the moves that require the backpack and you're much easier to send flying.

Though that seems complicated, so yeah, just leave out the backpack.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I gave an answer too; make him ditch the backpack.

It's not like he needs it, right?
If he does, then how about a gimmick where you can wear the backpack, which gives you access to certain moves and makes you really hard to knock off the stage, but you can't jump.
If you need to jump, you can take the backpack off, which also makes you faster, but you lose access to the moves that require the backpack and you're much easier to send flying.

Though that seems complicated, so yeah, just leave out the backpack.

I actually do quite like this idea.

It's a complex gimmick, and HIGHLY unlikely to be how it actually works, but what if Captain Toad's backpack could contain something like five items? He can 'empty' his backpack like so, to lighten the load, giving him an improved jump(and slight improved speed) but in doing so he becomes as light as Pichu was and becomes incredibly easy to KO?

You can pick new items up to improve your survivability, but whilst carrying said items in your backpack you won't be able to use them until you empty them.

Fits Captain Toad's collecting nature I guess?

 

[RomanceDawn]

With this new game I can definitely see Toad getting in on the action next time around. But who knows? DLC isn't impossible.

 

[jigglover]

I gave an answer too; make him ditch the backpack.

It's not like he needs it, right?
If he does, then how about a gimmick where you can wear the backpack, which gives you access to certain moves and makes you really hard to knock off the stage, but you can't jump.
If you need to jump, you can take the backpack off, which also makes you faster, but you lose access to the moves that require the backpack and you're much easier to send flying.

Though that seems complicated, so yeah, just leave out the backpack.

I would certainly argue that the rucksack is a surprisingly iconic part of Captain Toad, though. The most iconic is his headlamp, obviously, but the backpack is honestly quite an important character to his character. In the Galaxy series, he even stores power stars in there!

 

[Rasumii]

I feel like he can throw his backpack up, which would propel him up because it's pretty heavy. Who knows, but I do like the idea of lightening the load of the backpack and whatnot.

 

[Oz37]

Well, if you remember, he manages a pitifully tiny hop when you try to jump with him. I think that should just translate into him having a really poor jump with a good recovery to make up for it.

Oh, btw, C. TOAD FOR SMASH. Ahem... just thought I'd throw my support out there.

 

[Arcadenik]

I would certainly argue that the rucksack is a surprisingly iconic part of Captain Toad, though. The most iconic is his headlamp, obviously, but the backpack is honestly quite an important character to his character. In the Galaxy series, he even stores power stars in there!

What good are Power Stars to Toad? Rosalina already uses them for her Final Smash... and to be honest, it wasn't impressive at Smash Invitation.

Anyway, I think people are making mountains out of mole hills with Captain Toad's inability to jump. He cannot jump because that's part of the gameplay in his own levels and games. We all know Toad is capable of jumping as shown in SMB2, NSMBWii/U, and 3D World. There's no explanation for why he cannot jump in Wario's Woods when he was able to jump in SMB2. There's an explanation for why he cannot jump in Treasure Tracker. His backpack is too heavy.

In Smash, Toad should be able to jump but he has very poor jumping height... almost as if he jumps as high as Brawl Ganondorf. But his Up+B recovery should be very good and gives lots of height. That's where the Propeller Mushroom comes in.

Yes... Toad in Smash should be a heavyweight with poor jumping height despite his small size and excellent running speed. Toad in Smash should represent all the playable Toads in Mario platformer games and Toad's own games regardless of whether SMB2's Toad and Captain Toad are the same person or not. That means, Toad in Smash should be based off THE Toad, Captain Toad, and Blue/Yellow Toads.

 

[Forcerounds]

I still don't know how I feel about Captain Toad as a playable character in Smash. I obviously want Toad playable, but do I want all of the features Captain Toad has to offer? I'll withhold judgement on that for now until we get more information on Treasure Tracker, but nothing changes the fact that I want a classic Toad with moves inspired by SMB2, NSMBU, SM3DW, and Wario's Woods the most.

Captain Toad may be the best defined character of his species, and that's great, but he doesn't capture the essence of Toad from his other playable roles. Mainly, his speed and hidden strength. In SMB2, Toad has the fastest running speed, the fastest plucking animation, and is not slowed down much when picking up a heavy object. The excuse for why Captain Toad cannot run very fast or jump is because he has a heavy backpack on (this is based on what Nintendo Treehouse said on their first gameplay demo for E3 2014). Toad from SMB2 or Wario's Woods would not be as slow as Captain Toad if they had that backpack on. If a playable Captain Toad means that he has to be burdened in a way that is not representative of Toad's history in the series, then I'll be disappointed unless slower movement and even weaker recovery (I do not expect even a classic Toad to jump very high based on how he plays in SMB2 and SM3DW) provides a clever advantage. And so I'll wait to see if Treasure Tracker puts the backpack to good use. So far, it looks like it doesn't store anything specific. The items Captain Toad uses so far are plucked from the ground, including the pickaxe.

Do I think Captain Toad as DLC in some form is reasonable? Yes, it's very reasonable. I anticipate Nintendo having a hard time advertising and selling Treasure Tracker. Especially if they are demanding a high price for it. DLC for Smash Brothers is a perfect way to get people interested in trying new series, and Toad already has a character model in the game to work off of. My wish is that Classic Toad with a Captain Toad costume (meaning his appearance will have no bearing on his moves) will become DLC when Treasure Tracker launches.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I originally didn't like the idea of Toad in Smash, but that all changed when I first played Super Mario 3D World. The Captain Toad levels in that game are a lot of fun, plus there's all of the Toad Brigade's appearances all over the cosmos in Super Mario Galaxy.

In conclusion though, Captain Toad has my support, he'd be a fun addition.

 

[The Drilling Juggernaut]

Captain Toad not being able to jump is a part of his character so they need to design him with that in mind. Of course we can't have a character who doesn't jump, but showing him struggling to jump and falling like a rock would be unique. His backpack gives him an excuse to be a small heavywight. I also like the idea of him ditching his backpack for his Up B: He strips it and gets a boost and falls slower, but it respawns after he lands.

 

[kylexv]

Add me to the Toad Brigade.

With the unveiling of Captain Toad's Treasure Tracker, his chances just skyrocketed. If not Smash 4, then he will definitely be in Smash 5.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm passing down the thread to @ YoshiandToad .

@Scoliosis Jones
@Opossum
@Swampasaur
@FalKoopa

Please give the man his new thread.

I'll still be visiting pretty often though.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm passing down the thread to @ YoshiandToad .

@Scoliosis Jones
@Opossum
@Swampasaur
@FalKoopa

Please give the man his new thread.

I'll still be visiting pretty often though.

Thank you Louie (and assorted mods)!

I'll rework the thread over the next few days.

 

[Genexican]

A while back I probably would have argued for hours on end as to why Cap. Toad would be a waste of a slot. But since then I've had it explained to me more and more on how he could actually work, and have a rather decent moveset. Same goes for Daisy.

 

[YoshiandToad]

A while back I probably would have argued for hours on end as to why Cap. Toad would be a waste of a slot. But since then I've had it explained to me more and more on how he could actually work, and have a rather decent moveset. Same goes for Daisy.

Throwing your fetching sombrero into the ring of support, senor?

Talking of which; the support list is now up to speed with the Toad Brigade members.

Need some clarification on Kon and Yosher's level of support whether I should keep them or remove them though; they seem to like Captain Toad, but maybe not for Smash.