Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

Lyncario

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I spent the entire day with my family, so I wasn't able to watch MinusT's new animation until very recently and I am still beyond stunned at what I was able to witness. Everything in it is just so perfect.
 

TheTuninator

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So the details of the questionnaire taken during the popularity poll held on June 2020 has now been made public.
There are some interesting data, but as for Smash speculation, I think question 01, 03, and 07 are the important ones.

The result of the questionnaire for Poll 16 (June 6th - June 13th, 2020)
The result of the questionnaire for Poll 15 (January 27th - February 2nd, 2019)

Question 01 was asking your age. As you can see in the results, the number of votes increased quite a lot (10,163 -> 13,370) and the percentage of teenagers also increased while the other groups of different ages decreased. I think this shows that the franchise is really succeeding in its generational shift. So if Touhou gets a representation in Smash then the main target audience would be the teens.

03, your area. When you add up every answers says outside of Japan, Poll 16 had exactly 20.0% votes coming from foreign regions while Poll 15 had 15.84% votes. Most are coming from East Asia (10.17% -> 13.73%) . From North America (2.24% -> 2.36%), from Europe (1.54% -> 1.76%), so not much differences. The number of votes increased from 9.981 to 13.034. So I think the rise of Chinese market isn't something you can dismiss here.

07 was asking the when you find about Touhou. The highest percentage was 9.35%, around May 2014, between TH14 and TH14.3. When Poll 15 was held, the highest was 10.69%, around August 2008, between TH10 and TH11. Comparing the result of Poll 16 and Poll 15, the percentages are increasing after 2012 or 2013, starting from Symposium of Post-mysticism and then significantly gotten higher after TH14. Also, over 20% of people are gotten into Touhou after TH15. I think this result does match up with the result of Question 01.
It's genuinely fantastic to hear that the series is managing to find an infusion of new blood! What's your take on how the newer/younger fans are finding the series? Is it mostly that Youtube talking head stuff?
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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It's genuinely fantastic to hear that the series is managing to find an infusion of new blood! What's your take on how the newer/younger fans are finding the series? Is it mostly that Youtube talking head stuff?
Yukkuri is really a thing on YouTube probably more than people overseas recognize. Yukkuri videos are literally everywhere in any genre.
Try type in "スマブラ ゆっくり" on YouTube search bar than you find out how much they're earning views.
I think autocompletion of the combination of these words with ゆっくり (Yukkuri) might tell you more. 解説 (Explanation), 実況 (Commentary), 歴史 (History), 科学(Science), 事件 (Incidents), 時事 (News), 茶番 (Farce), 旅行 (Travels), 料理 (Cookings), 朗読 (Readings), レビュー (Reviews) and such.
 

perfectchaos83

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Been looking forward to this. Can't wait for the full thing/sequel. I absolutely love the improvement. MinusT has come a long way since Reimu vs Remilia


So the details of the questionnaire taken during the popularity poll held on June 2020 has now been made public.
There are some interesting data, but as for Smash speculation, I think question 01, 03, and 07 are the important ones.

The result of the questionnaire for Poll 16 (June 6th - June 13th, 2020)
The result of the questionnaire for Poll 15 (January 27th - February 2nd, 2019)

Question 01 was asking your age. As you can see in the results, the number of votes increased quite a lot (10,163 -> 13,370) and the percentage of teenagers also increased while the other groups of different ages decreased. I think this shows that the franchise is really succeeding in its generational shift. So if Touhou gets a representation in Smash then the main target audience would be the teens.

03, your area. When you add up every answers says outside of Japan, Poll 16 had exactly 20.0% votes coming from foreign regions while Poll 15 had 15.84% votes. Most are coming from East Asia (10.17% -> 13.73%) . From North America (2.24% -> 2.36%), from Europe (1.54% -> 1.76%), so not much differences. The number of votes increased from 9.981 to 13.034. So I think the rise of Chinese market isn't something you can dismiss here.

07 was asking the when you find about Touhou. The highest percentage was 9.35%, around May 2014, between TH14 and TH14.3. When Poll 15 was held, the highest was 10.69%, around August 2008, between TH10 and TH11. Comparing the result of Poll 16 and Poll 15, the percentages are increasing after 2012 or 2013, starting from Symposium of Post-mysticism and then significantly gotten higher after TH14. Also, over 20% of people are gotten into Touhou after TH15. I think this result does match up with the result of Question 01.
Interesting summary of data. Still quite surprised at the generational shift.
 

zriL

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Yukkuri is really a thing on YouTube probably more than people overseas recognize. Yukkuri videos are literally everywhere in any genre.
Try type in "スマブラ ゆっくり" on YouTube search bar than you find out how much they're earning views.
I think autocompletion of the combination of these words with ゆっくり (Yukkuri) might tell you more. 解説 (Explanation), 実況 (Commentary), 歴史 (History), 科学(Science), 事件 (Incidents), 時事 (News), 茶番 (Farce), 旅行 (Travels), 料理 (Cookings), 朗読 (Readings), レビュー (Reviews) and such.
I didn't know about that, it's pretty wild indeed. I even found this channel that does only smash videos with yukkuri voices, most videos have 100k+ views, it's pretty impressive : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyTaStlK0neSuKveYOIioaw. I don't understand the content though it seems humoristic, I wonder if they talk about Reimu for smash sometimes.
Imagine a Reimu alt in smash with the yukkuri head, the meme game would be off the rails. Actually, they could make a good mii hat with this, but let's hope Touhou doesn't get only that.
 
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Soulor

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Aw yis. Yukkuri vids.

I brought up Yukkuri and their significant presence in the JP YouTube community long ago here.

They've been around for many years, covering a very wide range of content, not just games.

A good amount of Touhou Yukkuri videos are always on "trending" on JP YouTube as well.

The day Reimu is announced for Smash, I'd love to see their reactions and videos commenting on such.



*Haha, I was going to share a bunch of videos and some explaining text but eh it's late and I'm on mobile. Oh well~
 

kaithehedgefox

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The day Reimu is announced for Smash, I'd love to see their reactions and videos commenting on such.
Unfortunately, I predict most of the reactions to Reimu's inclusion will be negative because most people mistakenly think Touhou is obscure.
 

kaithehedgefox

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I think most of the reactions will be "I don't know who this cute anime girl is, but I like cute anime girls", personally. Anime finds a way.
While I support Reimu, most people want all obscure 3rd party characters to remain unplayable in all circumstances. Most people won't like Reimu's inclusion even if we do due to the reasons in my previous post above.

If I showed people this artwork of Reimu, people in the West would just refer to her as something along the lines of "The Girl from Touhou", but they wouldn't be able to call her "Reimu".
touhou-hakurei-reimu-1.jpg

I've already aforementioned that not only do most people mistakenly think that Reimu is obscure, but also, not many people know her name. Coincidentally, Reimu shares both of these traits with Ren/Joker (Persona) and Yu (Persona). I support Yu (Persona) as well too.

TLDR: Reimu, Ren/Joker (Persona), and Yu (Persona) are iconic, but most people don't know their names.
 
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kaithehedgefox

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I think it's fine if people don't know her name as long as they know she is from Touhou. Many characters are recognized by their game already.
I understand, but could you please explain why although Reimu is iconic including in the west, why don't most western fans know her name?
 
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zriL

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I understand, but could you please explain why although Reimu is iconic including in the west, why don't most western fans know her name?
I believe western fans definitely know her name. I suppose you are talking about non-fan people who heard about Touhou but don't know the name of Reimu.

There are many simple reasons for this :
  • The name is Japanese, people don't remember names very well in foreign language
  • Touhou is known for music, which doesn't state any name
  • Touhou is known for fanarts, which don't state any name (unless you look into it) (many people like Touhou fanart without knowing it's from Touhou or which character it is)
  • Touhou is known for many other characters, many characters' name can be known by different people but most people don't know every name, including Reimu

The only thing were the names are actually important is the game, which aren't even officially translated. And we all know people almost never discover Touhou through the games.
Some memes state some names so that's basically the only place from where non-fan people could know the names, and also having friend who are actual fans.

In the end, it's really not surprising. Anyways, if Reimu gets in Smash, it would be to represent Touhou as a whole, not because she is iconic by herself. Many Touhou characters are very popular on their own, Reimu is only slightly more popular and the logical rep as the playable character. The annual popularity poll show this very well, I'm not sure if there is any franchise where character popularity is as spread as for Touhou. For example, Reimu is the favorite characters of only 5% of the fans, while also being the top character (2nd this year). It's incredible when you think about it.
 
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kaithehedgefox

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I believe western fans definitely know her name. I suppose you are talking about non-fan people who heard about Touhou but don't know the name of Reimu.
You are correct, there are not many Western Touhou fans, which probably explains why most people in the West, everyone knows Reimu, but nobody knows her name.

There are many simple reasons for this :
  • The name is Japanese, people don't remember names very well in foreign language
  • Touhou is known for music, which doesn't state any name
  • Touhou is known for fanarts, which don't state any name (unless you look into it) (many people like Touhou fanart without knowing it's from Touhou or which character it is)
  • Touhou is known for many other characters, many characters' name can be known by different people but most people don't know every name, including Reimu
I'm aware of all those facts! To summarize, within the West, Touhou is better known for its soundtrack and fan-content than its official content. Yet in both the West and East, people are still unaware of how iconic and famous Touhou is.

The only thing were the names are actually important is the game, which aren't even officially translated. And we all know people almost never discover Touhou through the games.
Some memes state some names so that's basically the only place from where non-fan people could know the names, and also having friend who are actual fans.
To compare, Bill (Contra) is better known as "The Contra Guy" than "Bill" because his official name is rarely mentioned. Same occurs with Reimu, in the West, nobody knows her name because her name is rarely mentioned outside of official Touhou media.

In the end, it's really not surprising. Anyways, if Reimu gets in Smash, it would be to represent Touhou as a whole, not because she is iconic by herself. Many Touhou characters are very popular on their own, Reimu is only slightly more popular and the logical rep as the playable character. The annual popularity poll show this very well, I'm not sure if there is any franchise where character popularity is as spread as for Touhou. For example, Reimu is the favorite characters of only 5% of the fans, while also being the top character (2nd this year). It's incredible when you think about it.
To add on, Reimu is not only the main protagonist of Touhou, but she is also more iconic than Shantae, who is another indie rep. Once again, if I asked people which of the two indie reps are more iconic, people would say "Shantae is more iconic" because not many people are aware of Touhou's iconicness.

All I can really say is that if Reimu gets in, a lot more people will definitely know her name. Kind of obvious, but still.
If Reimu makes it in, people who don't know her name, but still recognize her, would probably react by saying "I never knew this girl had an official name until now!".
 

zriL

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To add on, Reimu is not only the main protagonist of Touhou, but she is also more iconic than Shantae, who is another indie rep. Once again, if I asked people which of the two indie reps are more iconic, people would say "Shantae is more iconic" because not many people are aware of Touhou's iconicness.
Hard to say if Reimu herself is more iconic than Shantae. Google trend seems to tell Shantae is more known in the US right know, but Touhou as a whole is much stronger. Like we explained earlier, Reimu represents Touhou, it's pointless to talk about Reimu iconicness alone, Touhou is much more iconic as a whole.
Whereas for Shantae, Shantae is both the name of the game and the character, so anyone who knows the game knows the character, but that also means she is probably the only things people know about Shantae. I'm pretty sure you'll hardly find any non-fan of Shantae who knows anything else about Shantae, while it's pretty easy to find people who know about Touhou while not knowing about Reimu.

In the end, comparing Reimu and Shantae like you do isn't very relevant. You should compare the games and everything about them. Unfortunately, Touhou has generated so much different stuff over the years that it's very hard to estimate its "iconicness".
 
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TheTuninator

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While I support Reimu, most people want all obscure 3rd party characters to remain unplayable in all circumstances. Most people won't like Reimu's inclusion even if we do due to the reasons in my previous post above.

If I showed people this artwork of Reimu, people in the West would just refer to her as something along the lines of "The Girl from Touhou", but they wouldn't be able to call her "Reimu".

I've already aforementioned that not only do most people mistakenly think that Reimu is obscure, but also, not many people know her name. Coincidentally, Reimu shares both of these traits with Ren/Joker (Persona) and Yu (Persona). I support Yu (Persona) as well too.

TLDR: Reimu, Ren/Joker (Persona), and Yu (Persona) are iconic, but most people don't know their names.
The thing to keep in mind is that this whole roster speculation community is vanishingly small and inbred in the context of the broader Smash community. Smash has tens of millions of players, so no matter what contrarians in roster speculation communities might think about a given character, they're less than a drop of water in the bucket when it comes to Smash players. All that really matters is the character's broader appeal to the fanbase as a whole, and I've always been of the opinion that being a cute anime shrine maiden will get you real far when it comes to the 2020s Smash community. Anime and manga has probably never been more popular in the US than it is right now.
 
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SharkLord

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While I support Reimu, most people want all obscure 3rd party characters to remain unplayable in all circumstances. Most people won't like Reimu's inclusion even if we do due to the reasons in my previous post above.

If I showed people this artwork of Reimu, people in the West would just refer to her as something along the lines of "The Girl from Touhou", but they wouldn't be able to call her "Reimu".

I've already aforementioned that not only do most people mistakenly think that Reimu is obscure, but also, not many people know her name. Coincidentally, Reimu shares both of these traits with Ren/Joker (Persona) and Yu (Persona). I support Yu (Persona) as well too.

TLDR: Reimu, Ren/Joker (Persona), and Yu (Persona) are iconic, but most people don't know their names.
I wouldn't go as far as to say the majority doesn't want niche third-parties, just the most vocal people. Almost nobody in the Western Smash circles knew who Terry Bogard was until Sakurai gave us a forty-minute rundown on the history of Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, and you'd be laughed out of the room for daring to even consider Joker until he crashed the Game Awards.
Reimu has a style unique from the current roster and a lot of great songs that are easy to license, and the majority of Smash players are casuals who will probably buy anything because it's Smash. Besides, I'm expecting a lot of people from the early 2010's to get all nostalgic from the time Touhou was everywhere, because apparently Touhou went extremely viral back then.
Reception to Reimu will most likely be more positive than you think.
 

kaithehedgefox

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I'm expecting a lot of people from the early 2010's to get all nostalgic from the time Touhou was everywhere, because apparently Touhou went extremely viral back then.
Reception to Reimu will most likely be more positive than you think.
Back in the Early 2010s, during the Wii era, everyone was aware of Reimu's iconicness, but nowadays, nobody is aware of Reimu's fame anymore. However, Reimu has remained iconic to this day since the mid-late 2000s.

I can already envision people backlashing by responding, "Why the heck is Reimu a playable character instead of a mii costume/spirit/assist trophy?"

Here's how I would react to the protest against the inclusions of Reimu, Terry (King of Fighters), Kyo (King of Fighters), and other mistaken-for-obscure 3rd party characters:
"Demoting Reimu, Terry, Kyo, etc.. to assist trophies in Smash 6, to make way for characters along the lines of Bomberman, Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, etc. would be terribly gratuitous. Thus, it would be best to have Bomberman, Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, Reimu, Terry, Kyo all playable in the same installment. Furthermore, asking for Reimu to be unplayable, is pretty much like asking for Chun-Li to be unplayable."
 
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SharkLord

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While I have the chance to avoid doubleposting, I have a question to ask. I'm looking into getting a Touhou game off of Steam, but I'm not used to downloading translation patches. Do I just need to get the game from Steam, then go to the Touhou Translation Patch Center and download the required patch, or is it a bit more complicated than that? I though it would be best to check in advance, since I'd assume there's at least some people here who are more experienced than me in this area.
 

Blankiturayman

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While I have the chance to avoid doubleposting, I have a question to ask. I'm looking into getting a Touhou game off of Steam, but I'm not used to downloading translation patches. Do I just need to get the game from Steam, then go to the Touhou Translation Patch Center and download the required patch, or is it a bit more complicated than that? I though it would be best to check in advance, since I'd assume there's at least some people here who are more experienced than me in this area.
It's essentially just that, you get the game, and then the general patcher off the wiki page. Then run the patcher, and it'll detect the games you have, and patch it. And there you'd go! If you want a more detailed guide, there's one on steam here, it says it's for 16, but really, it should work with all the games currently there. Good luck and have fun!
 

kaithehedgefox

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Reimu has made several appearances outside of her home-franchise. I can name a few.
  • IOSYS (a now-obscure EDM band) music videos.
  • Walfas (a now-obsolete animation program)
  • Mugen
  • Reimu has also been featured on thumbmails of certain trance/nightcore videos.
 

Rikarte

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Reimu has made several appearances outside of her home-franchise. I can name a few.
  • IOSYS (a now-obscure EDM band) music videos.
  • Walfas (a now-obsolete animation program)
Wait, you're telling me that the Touhou main character shows up in Touhou fan content?
I have no idea what you're on about tbh - we just recently got a collab with Hello Kitty, one of the largest brands in the world.
 
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zriL

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Wait, you're telling me that the Touhou main character shows up in Touhou fan content?
I have no idea what you're on about tbh - we just recently got a collab with Hello Kitty, one of the largest brands in the world.
This is not the point. The point is Reimu is everywhere but her name isn't. I can't check for Hello Kitty but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't say anywhere the name of the characters in the Hello Kitty side of the communication.
 

PurpleXCompleX

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Reimu has made several appearances outside of her home-franchise. I can name a few.
I am sorry but these picks out of all the appearances Reimu has outside of Touhou? That made me chuckle. Mostly because, yes, Iosys is a Touhou music circles, and Walfas was made by a western Touhou fan to make custom Touhou characters and scenes (and then became a very DeviantArt subculture), Mugen is a big meme and Nightcore videos on YouTube rely on stolen music and art with low effort editing.

Sure, people probably easily encountered Reimu and Touhou without really being aware of it, but thats also mostly a sign of ignorance and lack of research or how people dont credit Touhou in the first place.
The Smash community has often proven to be very ignroant towards many video game franchises. You had often had to hear that people did not recognize Dragon Quest or believe, that it does not warrant an inclusion in Smash. Or how people claim they love Castlevania Symphony of the Night, get hyped about Simon Belmont, but wont recognize Richter. And people who have never heard of King of Fighters / Fatal Fury before even with its huge fighting game legacy.
I think at this point it shouldnt matter whether or not people know a series or character, as long as there is still a large portion of fans and/or legacy backing them up. After all, Smash Bros. is a great way to introduce people to franchises they didnt know about previously.

And to add to the references to Touhou that media outside of Touhou made
Nowadays, you have countless of rhythm game arcades and games featuring Touhou music, like Sound Voltex, Groove Coaster, Taiko Drum Master, Pop'n Music...
People make Touhou mods and fan content for a lot of games, theres crossover collabs with Graffiti Kingdom Lord of Vermillion, the Nendoroid PSP game, theres numerous homages to Touhou project outside of collabs like with League of Legends, Undertale, or in some manga and anime.
And all of this is on its way to only get bigger as time goes on. You can tell with the increase of young fans and generally, how the Japan only Touhou Popularity poll got more voters. I'd also say that even in the west there has been a new wave of Touhou fans... for better and worse.

The Shantae and other Indie stuff is just like zriL says. What I have noticed too is that Shantae buzz is more open in the west. News outlets will report about them, and like here, as part of the Nintendo consumerbase, of course you would be aware of Shantae and other Indies by now due to news and game releases. And of course that spreads, people talk about it and are aware of this game series.

While Touhou has really only been something more Japan-exclusive, really mostly because ZUN (and other creators) can't just easily translate it and with ZUN along the lines of "well if the fans do it themself then thats fine by me."
Touhou is very much more than just a Indie game series, besides games, Touhou also includes music, print work including manga, real-life conventions focused solely on Touhou (Reitaisai), Live Shows and News Websites focoused solely on Touhou (Touhou Station and Touhou Garakuta).

What I am saying is, Touhou is Doujin culture as a whole. Sure, you may say "yeah people do know about X Indie series though over here." But what is that in comparison to the entire legacy and amount of content made by fans out of passion?
No other franchise spawns this much fan content, has multiple conventions for only this series, a dedicated Comiket day which is the biggest convention in Japan, thousands of fan musicians, fangame creators, artists, animators, ... its pretty much a cult following.
But people will still somehow talk all of this down in favor of their own favorites.
 
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SharkLord

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Adding on to the outside appearances topic, Touhou characters appeared in a Don-chan RPG alongside the cast of Kirby, Ace Attorney, and Monster Hunter, among others. Said Don-chan RPG is also on the Switch, though we don't know if they keep the crossover content. We went over this last page, so I'm sure you're all aware of this.

Also apparently Suika showed up on ESPN once. No, I am not ****ing kidding. They actually used an image of Suika operating a camera that one time.
 

kaithehedgefox

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I am sorry but these picks out of all the appearances Reimu has outside of Touhou? That made me chuckle. Mostly because, yes, Iosys is a Touhou music circles, and Walfas was made by a western Touhou fan to make custom Touhou characters and scenes (and then became a very DeviantArt subculture), Mugen is a big meme and Nightcore videos on YouTube rely on stolen music and art with low effort editing.
I knew all about that a long time ago. LOL!
 
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Lasatar

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I don't want to be rude or disrespectful to a user, but guys, just ignore Kai. He's the exact same over on GameFAQs, and reading his posts for any extended period of time is almost physically painful with the way he presents his "arguments". He has (no joke) literally suggested that Reimu would be called "Touhou Girl" if she was ever added to Smash, because "Touhou is famous but nobody knows who Reimu is, so they'd take that into account if they added her".

It's seriously a whole other level of cringe.
 
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BernkastelWitch

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I wouldn't go as far as to say the majority doesn't want niche third-parties, just the most vocal people. Almost nobody in the Western Smash circles knew who Terry Bogard was until Sakurai gave us a forty-minute rundown on the history of Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, and you'd be laughed out of the room for daring to even consider Joker until he crashed the Game Awards.
Reimu has a style unique from the current roster and a lot of great songs that are easy to license, and the majority of Smash players are casuals who will probably buy anything because it's Smash. Besides, I'm expecting a lot of people from the early 2010's to get all nostalgic from the time Touhou was everywhere, because apparently Touhou went extremely viral back then.
Reception to Reimu will most likely be more positive than you think.
I severely doubt Reimus reception would be negative if she got in. Mixed at best like Terrys but may end up being more positive. The casual gamers and strictly Nintendo or Console gamers may not know much about her due to them not being in that bubble but hardcore Indie fans, Shmup fans, and those who look into Japanese games will know about her. Especially those who were around in late 2000s to early 2010s where Touhou blew up in the Western side of things.

I can argue some people either have a very small window of Newcomer possibilities that they can't comprehend characters outside of your typical Geno/Waluigi/Sora/Doom Guy choices or like I said, are part of corners of gaming that haven't crossed into Touhou yet.

I do think once people learn more about Touhou and how surprisingly influential it was for being a silly Doujin bullet hell series, they will welcome Reimu with open arms, like how Terrys gameplay reveal had history on SNK as a whole which swayed uninformed peoples minds.
 

kaithehedgefox

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I don't want to be rude or disrespectful to a user, but guys, just ignore Kai. He's the exact same over on GameFAQs, and reading his posts for any extended period of time is almost physically painful with the way he presents his "arguments". He has (no joke) literally suggested that Reimu would be called "Touhou Girl" if she was ever added to Smash, because "Touhou is famous but nobody knows who Reimu is, so they'd take that into account if they added her".

It's seriously a whole other level of cringe.
I actually didn't think Reimu would be called "Touhou girl". It was just a joke idea I had in mind. And I still support Reimu. I was never trying to offend anyone.

Remember when I said a that dude I know was creating a Touhou Smash fangame? Well he just announced a new fighter! Here is your Smash reveal everyone:
What game is this?
 
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gavtel

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A new variant stage has been added to Genso Skydrift called "Redevelopment Area A" (a variant on the Outside World stage). The update also adds some bonus costume colours, alongside the usual course route changes (Sea of tranquility), character buffs (Youmu and Sanae Last Word buff and Clownpiece's Curve and Mass are increased) and bug fixes.
 

Rikarte

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Well, this was made, and apparently by very popular request as well. Might take a couple pointers from here for my moveset, though I disagree with some of the stuff drawn from the fangames.
Yeah, I don't like referencing moves from fangames either but overall this is a really well thought out moveset. Nicely researched too, I'm actually impressed!
 

kaithehedgefox

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
687
Yeah, I don't like referencing moves from fangames either but overall this is a really well thought out moveset. Nicely researched too, I'm actually impressed!
I haven't watch the video yet. I know that most official Smash movesets usually don't reference fan-games. However, moves that reference fangames can be interesting. I once made a Waluigi moveset that references fangames.
 
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