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Should shortcomings in your personal life have an effect on your public position?

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TigerWoods

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Should shortcomings in someone's personal life have an effect on their public position?





Overview

Recently and in the past, the personal lives of many officials have either ruined, almost ruined, or may ruin their public positions. Here are a few examples:

-Nevada Senator John Ensign's Affair upset the Nevada community and may cost him his next election.
-John F Kennedy's Affair showed the not-so-angelic side to one of America's most venerated presidents.
-Governor Sanford's Affair dealt a blow to the republican party, as well as ended in his resignation.
*Additional Source

Argument

If a leader is effective and efficient, I don't see why their personal lives should affect their public duties. After all, we are all human and make mistakes.

Pretend you are an employer. Would you fire your best employee, who earns thousands of dollars for your company, just because he/she cheated on his/her wife/husband?

1) Nevada Senator John Ensign has not committed any criminal act. He has fulfilled his duties in the Senate and has advanced the view of his supporters. Why should his relationship affect his political position if he has done nothing wrong in the Senate?

2) As a whole, Americans generally look past John F Kennedy's scandal, as his charisma and leadership during the Cold War outweighed his shortcomings. We respect him because he did his job, and he did it well. He was a president. An unfaithful husband, maybe, but a great president nonetheless.

3) Governor Sanford, although not an outstanding governor, did not do anything illegal. Again, he cheated in his relationship, not in his profession. He did his job.








You may say that the public officials must be trustworthy, and that their personal shortcomings make them untrustworthy. However, your standing with your wife and your standing with your public campaign aren't related. These people are trustworthy when it comes to their profession.
 

Ryan Ludovic

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That would depend. If some president elect was running for president, and was taken to court for a **** charge, or they are addicted to substance, or are a pedophile who was caught with illegal content, their personal life certainly should hinder their political life.

The line, in my opinion, is drawn around where they are in the blurry vision of illegal activities, or harmful activities. If the senator wants to cheat on his wife.. well.. that's a shame for him and his family.. but if he's carrying out his job honestly, it should not effect him. To make judgement on that, would require his entire private life be analyzed, and for everyone in the parties stories to be exposed. That would be unfair to him, and everyone involved. It's personal business, and that is all it is.

People already are more concerned with what the first lady is wearing, or if the president is smoking, instead of the bills that are being passed / etc here in the United States. We dig deep enough into the private lives turning them not into political figures, but celebrities. We need to logically prioritize what is more important by what the person is being accused of. When they reach the harmful stages or even criminal stages, they need to be delt with. If in their personal lives, they are cheating on their wife, or whatnot.. That's something that should not effect their job.
 

Motel Vacaville of the West

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I don't think personal shortcomings should affect a politician's image and their role.

A politician mainly uses a political platform from his/her life such as a 2nd amendment supporter, or a LGBT politician, to reach a demographic to relate to.

I see how contradiction may tarnish a political figure's image such as adultery can ruin an image though. The public always wants to point fingers at the politician who is "big on family" whenever he looks at another woman or has an affair with another person.

Either way, as long as they did their job, they should be remembered in history.
 

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Pretend you are an employer. Would you fire your best employee, who earns thousands of dollars for your company, just because he/she cheated on his/her wife/husband?
A public servant's personal life does not matter to me, personally, but it speaks to their integrity. If they can't be trusted to lead an honest home-life, then there is a chance, however minute, that they cannot be trusted to lead as public officials.

Arguably, the moment the job's taken, by default even if they are not internally corrupt at all, they are still a piece of the engine which is corrupt, and therefore corrupt. -source

1) Nevada Senator John Ensign has not committed any criminal act. He has fulfilled his duties in the Senate and has advanced the view of his supporters. Why should his relationship affect his political position if he has done nothing wrong in the Senate?
Although adultery is not illegal in Nevada, it still speaks to his moral character, and as a public servant, a senator no less, he should have to live up to the highest of moral standards. We rely on the Legislative branch to make our laws, and since there can be no Moral Code within Law, it falls to makers of Laws to be bastions of morality, so that their Lawmaking is not corrupt.

2) As a whole, Americans generally look past John F Kennedy's scandal, as his charisma and leadership during the Cold War outweighed his shortcomings. We respect him because he did his job, and he did it well. He was a president. An unfaithful husband, maybe, but a great president nonetheless.
True, but really its more Presidents get a bigger break, arguably because it takes much more to remove them from office.

3) Governor Sanford, although not an outstanding governor, did not do anything illegal. Again, he cheated in his relationship, not in his profession. He did his job.
The real problem with Gov Sanford wasn't just in the affair, but his possible miss-use of funds to pay for it.
 

TigerWoods

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Motel Vocaville:
I don't think personal shortcomings should affect a politician's image and their role.

A politician mainly uses a political platform from his/her life such as a 2nd amendment supporter, or a LGBT politician, to reach a demographic to relate to.

I see how contradiction may tarnish a political figure's image such as adultery can ruin an image though. The public always wants to point fingers at the politician who is "big on family" whenever he looks at another woman or has an affair with another person.

Either way, as long as they did their job, they should be remembered in history.

I agree completely.



Sucumbio:
A public servant's personal life does not matter to me, personally, but it speaks to their integrity. If they can't be trusted to lead an honest home-life, then there is a chance, however minute, that they cannot be trusted to lead as public officials.


While indeed there is a chance, I don't see it as a basis to remove them from their position. However if proof that they are untrustworthy in their work comes to light(such as accepting bribes etc.), then I think they should not be trusted.

Sexual desire is a very strong force, and can lead many people with good intentions astray. Just because an official succumbs to this doesn't mean that they will accept bribes, lie in office, etc.


Arguably, the moment the job's taken, by default even if they are not internally corrupt at all, they are still a piece of the engine which is corrupt, and therefore corrupt. -source

Maybe it's just because I'm really tired, but I don't understand what you mean here. Please elaborate?


Although adultery is not illegal in Nevada, it still speaks to his moral character, and as a public servant, a senator no less, he should have to live up to the highest of moral standards. We rely on the Legislative branch to make our laws, and since there can be no Moral Code within Law, it falls to makers of Laws to be bastions of morality, so that their Lawmaking is not corrupt.

If adultery isn't illegal in Nevada, then it's not against the law. Apparently the law, does not see it as a big enough offense(Thomas Jefferson for example).

Also, I don't understand what you mean by "Moral Code." Lawmakers, who we put in office due to our shared views, make our laws. It is our job to hold them to their promises, or to choose a better lawmaker if they create corrupt laws.

It sounds like you're trying to argue that a legislative official who has done something that is not within your particular 'moral code', will make corrupt laws...which is a sweeping generalization. All legislative officials have done things they are not proud about, and have flaws on their record. By the above logic, all officials will be corrupt.



True, but really its more Presidents get a bigger break, arguably because it takes much more to remove them from office.
I disagree. President Kennedy has done a lot for the nation during the Cold War and he carried out his laws... despite having a mistress. Plus, I don't think presidents get a bigger break are much more intensely scrutinized than any other official, even if they are much harder to remove from office.


The real problem with Gov Sanford wasn't just in the affair, but his possible miss-use of funds to pay for it.
Didn't read about that... in that case I digress. You are correct.
 

Sucumbio

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While indeed there is a chance, I don't see it as a basis to remove them from their position. However if proof that they are untrustworthy in their work comes to light(such as accepting bribes etc.), then I think they should not be trusted.

Sexual desire is a very strong force, and can lead many people with good intentions astray. Just because an official succumbs to this doesn't mean that they will accept bribes, lie in office, etc.
True...

Lets step back a bit and consider the impact of an affair.

A public official commits adultery. We'll assume it's in one of the states where it's not illegal. The media blows this way out of proportion, anyway, slanting the public eye towards calling for his resignation. He then resigns.

Was it the media's fault he resigned? Or his fault, for cheating in the first place? Logically speaking, it's the latter, although your argument does bring up a good point in the meddling of the media on politics which is pretty much at the heart of this topic. Perhaps its the media that needs to butt out, and stop glamorizing the personal lives of public officials, turning them into pseudo-celebrities and thus applying the same lip service.

Now let us consider that same public official's ... official duties, and assume for the moment that his affair is NOT found out by the public. Does his affair jeopardize his job? Does he hold any security clearances that are protected under spousal law that are not protected otherwise? He could be a senator on the armed services committee, or maybe he's a joint chiefs member... is having them run around on their wife good or bad for national security? I'd summit it's dangerous even to allow even the slightest breech of that type. And so no one plays favorites, if you're a public official, you're held to the same expectations in the public's eye, the media's eye, and in practice.

Now let us consider the mindset of an adulterer in general. Having cheated myself, I can attest it does have a lot to do with sexual desire. It's almost never about true fulfillment. David Letterman recently had inter-office relationships come to light, and he.. made light of them, very professionally I may add. He's not even a public official (though I think he'd make a great mayor or something) and yet had this same thing come to light about... a mayor, or what have you, yeah, up in arms people would be. This is because... we look to our public officials for a check and balance of our own moral fortitude. It's not enough to go to Church for instance. We need real world examples of the 'the right thing to do' and when officials have affairs, seemingly abusing their power (it's not a hard stretch to imagine Clinton being all 'yo, I'm the president, down on me *****), our illusions are shattered, and this should not go unpunished, should not be ignored. After all, if a Senator can cheat all he wants and get away with it, why can't everyone else?

Maybe it's just because I'm really tired, but I don't understand what you mean here. Please elaborate?
heh, actually I'm going to admit I really hated that source I was forced to cite, but I just cannot remember the original source material. It's from years ago, in my college intro to poli sci class... basically, Government is corrupt, so by taking a position within it, you're automatically corrupt even though you may not -personally- be corrupt you still are corrupt.

An example: I am elected to the HoR for my district. I get up to capital hill, where I find out my staff liaison to the white house has been secretly accepting bribes to keep certain legislation from being reviewed. Basically he literally takes the document and throws it at the bottom of the pile every few weeks so that it remains there. I catch him doing this, and prepare to fire him but just as I'm about to do so, the House leader taps my shoulder (hey, you can't fire so-in-so, -I- didn't give you permission to do that, you work for me, buster). "No, I work for the people!" yeah, that's idealism at work, real politics doesn't work that way, and next thing you know, my 1 term going on 2 is 1 term going on nothing because my days are over.

In essence (and this is highly debatable and off topic, really) there are no truly non-corrupt politicians, only non-corrupt people, and the longer you are in whatever office you're in, the more corrupt you may become, until finally, you are in fact committing acts of corruption yourself, not just looking the other way while others are doing it.

If adultery isn't illegal in Nevada, then it's not against the law. Apparently the law, does not see it as a big enough offense(Thomas Jefferson for example).

Also, I don't understand what you mean by "Moral Code." Lawmakers, who we put in office due to our shared views, make our laws. It is our job to hold them to their promises, or to choose a better lawmaker if they create corrupt laws.

It sounds like you're trying to argue that a legislative official who has done something that is not within your particular 'moral code', will make corrupt laws...which is a sweeping generalization. All legislative officials have done things they are not proud about, and have flaws on their record. By the above logic, all officials will be corrupt.
About Nevada: it's not illegal there, but as the public, we still recognize it as the wrong thing to do, and again Public Officials are put on a pedestal which means our expectations of their moral fortitude is higher.

About Moral Code: There is Law, then there is Moral Law (the laws of Moses, for example). We expect our lawmakers to be of the utmost moral character, because we don't want our laws being made by drunks, gamblers, womanizers, etc. This is idealistic to a fault, obviously, I'd be willing to bet most capital hill politicians are all three, lol That's not the point though, the point is in the Idealism, and that is what's threatened when a public official's deviance from morality is brought to light. -Moral- of this story? Cheat if you must, but dont. get. caught.

I disagree. President Kennedy has done a lot for the nation during the Cold War and he carried out his laws... despite having a mistress. Plus, I don't think presidents get a bigger break are much more intensely scrutinized than any other official, even if they are much harder to remove from office.
They are very scrutinized, however a good example would be Clinton's approval rating NOT dropping much if at all during his scandal. Everyone pretty much accepted that he got a blow job under the table by a staffer, and big F'ing deal, kinda thing. Had it been someone of less importance, however, the media spin would have been enough to get them to resign, as we are seeing now quite a bit. Take the male senator who resigned after being caught soliciting a young male over AIM (a staffer too). And he even stood atop a high cloud of anti-gay SPAM. Just goes to show that people aren't what they seem, and if they're so untrustworthy as to be saying one thing while doing another, it's better (for politics' sake) to oust them (even though technically, you or I are just as moral as the next guy or gal or as them). It's not about whether they deserve to be ousted for their bad decisions. Its about the destruction of the illusion of the perfect people that we elect based on their presentations of themselves, and trying to preserve that.

I don't necessarily think that's a good thing, mind you, but that's a different subject. If we want to segue into that, then sure... Should a Public Official's rubber-stamp persona be required to be down-to-earth and real, or high on a pedestal for others to gawk at?
 

GoldShadow

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They are very scrutinized, however a good example would be Clinton's approval rating NOT dropping much if at all during his scandal. Everyone pretty much accepted that he got a blow job under the table by a staffer, and big F'ing deal, kinda thing.
Completely untrue.

Do you not remember the huge uproar and that Bill Clinton was impeached for it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
 

Dorsey

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In general, no, I don't one's personal shortcomings should affect their public position. However, I also believe it to be circumstantial.

Excuse me for being a little off-topic but it's interesting, in my opinion, and at least somewhat relevant.

Sen. John Edwards was considered by most, a more viable/electable candidate for the democratic party than Obama. Whenever I hear people discuss his role in the democratic nomination, they say that him not being faithful to his wife is what lost it for him. However, before this even happened his support wasn't too good, or at least not what it should have been. Personally, I feel that the primary reason for his failure in the presidential race was due to the influence big corporations have on politics. Big business has always ruled the world and it's people like John Edwards, who have devoted much of their lives to screwing these corporations over as a defense lawyer, that keep them in check. Aside from keeping them in check John Edwards is very, very good at his job--point being, he's the last person big corporations would want in office(someone whose profession was representing people > big business)

Comments, or anyone have similar feelings?
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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Sen. John Edwards was considered by most, a more viable/electable candidate for the democratic party than Obama. Whenever I hear people discuss his role in the democratic nomination, they say that him not being faithful to his wife is what lost it for him. However, before this even happened his support wasn't too good, or at least not what it should have been. Personally, I feel that the primary reason for his failure in the presidential race was due to the influence big corporations have on politics. Big business has always ruled the world and it's people like John Edwards, who have devoted much of their lives to screwing these corporations over as a defense lawyer, that keep them in check. Aside from keeping them in check John Edwards is very, very good at his job--point being, he's the last person big corporations would want in office(someone whose profession was representing people > big business)

Comments, or anyone have similar feelings?
I almost entirely agree with you there, perhaps not on the specific example there, but in my opinion the point still stands. The affect is especially strong when it involves media companies. If a politician wants to attack a media corporation with legislation, then he will become the subject of a whole number of attacks from said media corporation.

As for the on topic discussion, I would say that someone's personal shortcomings shouldn't affect their public position. This should almost always be the case unless the shortcoming is relevant to the position they will/are holding and that it proves that the person can't do a good job. Eg. A fraudster and conman as president. This could result in millions of dollars of government money being funnelled into a personal bank account.
 
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That really does depend. If it's something small, then no, it shouldn't have a effect in your life.

But if it's something major like cheating on over ten womens like Tiger Woods did, then it should.
 

Dre89

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The problem with it having an influence on careers is that once you fire people based on personal shortcomings, it's sort of inconsistent to keep others who have shortcomings as well.

The problem is, everyone has shortcomings.

Although 'sins' have varying degrees, discriminating against certain sins can be inconsistent and problematic.

I think where the line should be drawn is when the person's actions conflict or compromise the organisation's goals eg. An anti-drug spokesperson taking drugs or a Bishop turning gay etc.
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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I think where the line should be drawn is when the person's actions conflict or compromise the organisation's goals eg. An anti-drug spokesperson taking drugs or a Bishop turning gay etc.
Yeah, then they look like complete hypocrites, like Ted Haggard! Not only will it make them extremely unpopular, in some cases, it will impair their judgement; drugs are an example of this. A person using drugs, will have a very different mind, than before he started taking them, usually considered a worse mind. You don't want a president who's constantly looking for a "fix" while he's in office and then going on a violent rampage under the influence of drugs.
 
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