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Fawriel

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Hello there!
As you might know, I've applied for a Creative Writing course with a portfolio of short stories. In the end, I created 4 stories with a combined length of something over 20 pages over the course of a little less than 20 days, including coming up with the concept, writing and refining them, and so on. Since 20 pages was the maximum number of pages allowed, I had to cut the worst one, but, such is life.
Naturally, these stories were written in German, so I need to translate them into English first. I'll do that one by one starting with the one I like best, going down from there.

Since I don't want to clutter the forum with threads that are sort of about the same thing, I decided to make one thread for them that I'll update once I'm done with the next story, and since I don't want to clutter up my thread, I decided to link to them separately. Credit and thanks go to Tangent128 for the formating!

Well, here goes.


Three Seconds
 

antimatter

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dude, that was excellent. i felt quite immersed in the story. a couple of minor spelling mistakes, but otherwise well done.
 

Blackadder

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The proffesies of uni-town writing land will approve.
You will get in.

Because this story is good. Das ist alle.
 

Jam Stunna

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Hm, I didn't like this story at all. It starts with a cliche (Fate being a cruel mistress) and then just piles them on from there. I know you've got great talent Fawriel, because i still remember your WWYP entry very well. This one just doesn't do it for me.
 

The Mano Games VII

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1) Well...the story was a decent read...but there were a few things that bugged me. As Jam said, the story basically started out as one big cliche. Now, normally that wouldn't have bugged me too much, but in a story as short as this, it really isn't healthy for the story when you show with a big neon sign what the theme of your story is. Now if you had, I dunno, saved it for the last seconds of your story as some type of discussion, it might have meant something to me, but that's aight.

2) Being nitpicky here on this point...but when you say

"As Mrs. Jaime F. receives a call on her mobile phone while cleaning the windows of her apartment, a series of insignificant events causes her to lose her balance and fall out of the window".

I don't know, I just found "insignificant things" to be a little too vague. Mind telling me, or at least implying, what some of those "insignificant things" are? Like I said though, nitpicky.

3) Some of the "scientific dude's" (as I like to call the coldly logical perspective we see), was a little too emotionless, describing the fall in scientific terms, which to me, seems like something that contradicts the tenseness of the situation. Also, some of his insights focused on some rather insignificant things like...

"Considering her current position, Jaime F. will presumably hit the ground in 3 seconds, thereby breaking several bones including her skull and dying immediately. Considering the position of her acquaintance as well as his physical condition and the texture of the road, he would take approximately 9 seconds at maximum velocity to arrive at his destination. It can be deduced that the acquaintance of Jaime F. is not currently capable of rational thought"

Yeah, I found the breaking her bones thing pretty much just stating the obvious. And as for her "acquintices" physical condition and the texture of the road, what about them? Does the dude have diabetes? Is he winded, tired, breathless, is that his physical condition? And what about the road? Is it bumpy, slippery, does it somehow slow him down? Again, the scientific viewpoint just kinda started talking without even giving us an introduction to what was going on.

"Despite their irrelevance in the act of running, the emotional stress causes strain to be put on the man's facial and manual muscles"

Ya could have just said that the emotional stress caused his face to become strained ya know...

"According to current calculations, in the hypothetical scenario that the acquaintance of Jaime F. were capable of arriving at his destination in time to receive the falling body, he would only succeed in breaking the fall insignificantly, being torn down with it and receiving several injuries of medium to great severity in the process"

Uh...what "current calculations"? Is the "scientist" typing this all down onto a computer or something? I mean honestly, it isn't until the "scientific dudes" very last entry into this situation that he actually paints a picture we (or I) could actually connect to and feel emotion about.

4) The boyfriend of Jaime F. Now his entries are my favorite part of the whole story. He's a likeable dude, we get a really good view of what he's like, and I felt good about him. His entries were sometimes funny as well (loved the whole "disillusioned Santa with a beer bottle" picture). I can't really see much wrong with his entries.

5) Now the ending...frankly it's one of the things that bugs me the most. Now you pretty much spent almost the whole entire story talking about how cruel fate could be and pretty much making making Jaimes death irrefutably certain...and the boyfriend saves her. And there's not even any given or implied reason for his sucess despite half the story drilling it into our heads that Jaime was about to die. Well, I guess we can just through that part of the story out the window then.....

6) As bad as I'm making these flaws sound, it's not really anything that cripples your story...I think what was really this stories biggest handicap was the length. Personally, I think between the introduction, half the story being coldly logical, and how often the story switched perspectives, I think this story was built in a way that doesn't really leave a more than average taste in our mouths. I actually can honestly say that were the story longer, I probably would've cared a lot more for the characters despite the flaws in how the theme is portrayed.

7) The final verdict is...this story isn't bad, the writing is good, and you obviously have talent, there are just some things about the story that take all the impact out of it. Disappointed in yourself for this bad review? Depressed? Don't be pal, there's nothing about this that can't be fixed. I actually did enjoy reading it, just work on some stuff that's all.
 

Fawriel

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First off, thanks for all the nice comments. I really appreciate them, I just didn't reply earlier because I'm afraid I'd end up replying to every single one of them and spamming the thread and stuff.

Hm, I didn't like this story at all. It starts with a cliche (Fate being a cruel mistress) and then just piles them on from there. I know you've got great talent Fawriel, because i still remember your WWYP entry very well. This one just doesn't do it for me.
Like a mallet to the face. Hm.

I'm not really sure what to tell you. I don't see the cliche. Of course, "fate is a cruel mistress". But I do think I treated that ancient idea in a quite different way. At least I don't recall anyone calling fate cruel because it's boring and doesn't care for human ideals.
*gesticulates vaguely*
I dunno. I get the feeling you misunderstood it, but I can't really point out what it is if you just tell me that it's full of cliches and I have no idea what you mean.
I'll just link you to an article explaining briefly what a reconstruction is (though I don't doubt that you know this already), and hope you'll see where I'm coming from.

1) Well...the story was a decent read...but there were a few things that bugged me. As Jam said, the story basically started out as one big cliche. Now, normally that wouldn't have bugged me too much, but in a story as short as this, it really isn't healthy for the story when you show with a big neon sign what the theme of your story is. Now if you had, I dunno, saved it for the last seconds of your story as some type of discussion, it might have meant something to me, but that's aight.
The theme isn't "fate is cruel". It's the reason why it's cruel which I only allude to in the opening that is the whole idea behind it.

2) Being nitpicky here on this point...but when you say

"As Mrs. Jaime F. receives a call on her mobile phone while cleaning the windows of her apartment, a series of insignificant events causes her to lose her balance and fall out of the window".

I don't know, I just found "insignificant things" to be a little too vague. Mind telling me, or at least implying, what some of those "insignificant things" are? Like I said though, nitpicky.
I suppose it kind of clashes with the detailed tone of the rest of those segments when I just allude to "insignificant things". I just couldn't think of anything else to call it. In order to fall out of a window by accident, I suppose there would have to be some thing to stumble over, you might bump your arm against something, do some sort of wrong movement, etc...

3) Some of the "scientific dude's" (as I like to call the coldly logical perspective we see), was a little too emotionless, describing the fall in scientific terms, which to me, seems like something that contradicts the tenseness of the situation. Also, some of his insights focused on some rather insignificant things like...
I beg to differ. If I had told these parts in a dramatic tone, they would've been exaggerated and hard to take seriously. This way, you just get the cold hard facts. Also, it's a little misleading to call the speaker there "scientific dude". I leave open who or what the speaker is, but they signify the coldness of fate and all those predetermined forces of nature that we can't do anything against.

Yeah, I found the breaking her bones thing pretty much just stating the obvious. And as for her "acquintices" physical condition and the texture of the road, what about them? Does the dude have diabetes? Is he winded, tired, breathless, is that his physical condition? And what about the road? Is it bumpy, slippery, does it somehow slow him down? Again, the scientific viewpoint just kinda started talking without even giving us an introduction to what was going on.
"without even giving us an introduction to what was going on"? What do you mean?
I considered those details to be rather irrelevant. The speaker just knows all those facts and describing them would be unnecessary.

"Despite their irrelevance in the act of running, the emotional stress causes strain to be put on the man's facial and manual muscles"

Ya could have just said that the emotional stress caused his face to become strained ya know...
Can I blame that on my Germanness? =<

Uh...what "current calculations"? Is the "scientist" typing this all down onto a computer or something? I mean honestly, it isn't until the "scientific dudes" very last entry into this situation that he actually paints a picture we (or I) could actually connect to and feel emotion about.
That's because you aren't supposed to identify with that speaker, or rather, the speaker doesn't want you to identify. It just describes the situation. Depending on how vivid your imagination is, that might help you identify with the character because of the few details concerning his emotional state. Other than that, the emotion's supposed to come from the diary.

4) The boyfriend of Jaime F. Now his entries are my favorite part of the whole story. He's a likeable dude, we get a really good view of what he's like, and I felt good about him. His entries were sometimes funny as well (loved the whole "disillusioned Santa with a beer bottle" picture). I can't really see much wrong with his entries.
Yaaay.

5) Now the ending...frankly it's one of the things that bugs me the most. Now you pretty much spent almost the whole entire story talking about how cruel fate could be and pretty much making making Jaimes death irrefutably certain...and the boyfriend saves her. And there's not even any given or implied reason for his sucess despite half the story drilling it into our heads that Jaime was about to die. Well, I guess we can just through that part of the story out the window then.....
Wait, since when is it bad to have a twist at the end of the story? It seems kind of unnecessary to write a long story about how someone's falling out of a window, and then, in the end, lo and behold, hits the ground and dies.
Yes, there's no reason given why both are alive at the end.
So, why are they? It must surely have been impossible. How did they manage? Are there any clues?

6) As bad as I'm making these flaws sound, it's not really anything that cripples your story...I think what was really this stories biggest handicap was the length. Personally, I think between the introduction, half the story being coldly logical, and how often the story switched perspectives, I think this story was built in a way that doesn't really leave a more than average taste in our mouths. I actually can honestly say that were the story longer, I probably would've cared a lot more for the characters despite the flaws in how the theme is portrayed.
So... basically you want me to make it longer.
It seems kind of odd to me to make a story about three seconds in the lives of two people an opus of 20 pages. If I had made the story too long, it would've lost all sense of urgency.

7) The final verdict is...this story isn't bad, the writing is good, and you obviously have talent, there are just some things about the story that take all the impact out of it. Disappointed in yourself for this bad review? Depressed? Don't be pal, there's nothing about this that can't be fixed. I actually did enjoy reading it, just work on some stuff that's all.
Well, I can't say I'm happy with suddenly getting two overwhelmingly negative reviews after even the guy who criticizes EVERYTHING I do conceded that it's a good story, but such is life. I apologize if I'm sounding terribly defensive, but I'd be seriously sad now if I got too emotional, so you'll have to deal with defensive Faw.
 

Jam Stunna

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When I say there are several cliches in this piece, here's what I mean:
1) "Fate is a cruel mistress" (Obviously)
2) The nerd who finds true love at a comic book convention (or anime convention, or videogame tournament...basically, the idea that a self-proclaimed nerd will find a pretty, unattached girl at a nerd-sanctioned event)
3) The conversation about God after a close death
4) The accident occurs near Christmas

Not to mention that you state that there's no way he can save her and she will die (which is good, since it adds the emotional weight of loss to the flashback scene), then proceed to have him save her and let her live. You've pulled the rug right out from underneath yourself by trivializing the outcome.
 

Fawriel

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It's not a trivialized outcome. The process of the accident is trivialized by the matter-of-fact voice. The pathetic, romantic human with his love and dreams, oppose that trivialization. It's not trivial to him. If her death occurred, "just like that", it would be the end of the world to him. In the face of the world, it's a random occurrence. In his world, it's the greatest possible catastrophe.
Yes, there are cliches in there. The proximity to Christmas, the romantic circumstances of their meeting, it all looks like it could be out of a good old love story with a happy end. These stories don't necessarily provide enlightenment, but they give us something. They make us feel that there's something more to the world than the emptiness that doesn't care who dies where and how. And both of them know that. And yet this boring fate denies them the right to their happily ever after.
Sure, I could have written an ending where she dies and the guy realizes that all his hopes and dreams are just illusions in an empty world where such things have no value.
But why would I?

What happened at the end? I don't know! Maybe he suddenly got some burst of superhuman strength. Maybe someone unrelated and pretty **** strong caught her and he just carried on after half losing his consciousness and collapsed at that spot. Maybe the gods themselves had pity with him and allowed her to live. Maybe his belief in those values allowed him to negate reality itself.
But whatever happened, it is not trivial.
 

Crimson King

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After reading it, I'm not feeling it. First off, in writing, coincidences do not work. They work in real-life, but in a story, they are terrible because they are so contrived. I felt so cheated when Jamie fell out of the window:
As Mrs. Jaime F. receives a call on her mobile phone while cleaning the windows of her apartment, a series of insignificant events causes her to lose her balance and fall out of the window.

A close acquaintance of Mrs. Jaime F. who is currently on his way to her apartment and is responsible for the aforementioned call, perceives her scream via the mobile phone, looks up and recognizes the falling body of the known person. His eyes widen.
Reading this as I am going, it doesn't work. The acquaintance just happened to be on his way when Jamie F. fell out of a window? It really felt like you were trying hard to sound like Douglas Adams here. In fact, the entire section like the above part just sounds so mechanically forced to me.

The ending: No, I dislike it. First off, you really should study trauma because in all likelihood, both would be dead. The human body can sustain a fall of 30 feet before being severely injured and the act of hitting the pavement has nothing to do with it, it's the sudden stopping that kills you. This is why when Superman or Spider-man would catch someone in mid-air as they fall, they would die in real-life. A person falling on another person will result in A LOT worse than a large bruise. I completely agree with Jamma that the ending totally trivialized the story - the reader is supposed to feel for the two characters, but when one survives I feel like the story was for nothing.

I like the diary idea, and your writing is in a clear and concise way, but the story just doesn't work for me.
 

Fawriel

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After reading it, I'm not feeling it. First off, in writing, coincidences do not work. They work in real-life, but in a story, they are terrible because they are so contrived. I felt so cheated when Jamie fell out of the window:


Reading this as I am going, it doesn't work. The acquaintance just happened to be on his way when Jamie F. fell out of a window? It really felt like you were trying hard to sound like Douglas Adams here. In fact, the entire section like the above part just sounds so mechanically forced to me.
I meant to imply that the phone call caused her to do a movement that set off some sequence of events, like, bumping against the window frame and slipping on something or so, and the phone call was like "yo, I'm about to come over and stuff k". But I guess I didn't really make that clear.

The ending: No, I dislike it. First off, you really should study trauma because in all likelihood, both would be dead. The human body can sustain a fall of 30 feet before being severely injured and the act of hitting the pavement has nothing to do with it, it's the sudden stopping that kills you. This is why when Superman or Spider-man would catch someone in mid-air as they fall, they would die in real-life. A person falling on another person will result in A LOT worse than a large bruise. I completely agree with Jamma that the ending totally trivialized the story - the reader is supposed to feel for the two characters, but when one survives I feel like the story was for nothing.

I like the diary idea, and your writing is in a clear and concise way, but the story just doesn't work for me.
I know they both would die. I said so myself in the story.

*sigh* I guess in the end it's a clash of ideologies. Unfortunately, if I failed to make the story coherent to someone of opposing ideals, I guess I failed overall. Mrr.
 

Crimson King

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You cannot just leave all things implied and assume the reader knows what's going on. For someone to fall out of a window, you need a little more than she tripped and slipped out the window. Sorry, it just doesn't work like that.

Again, if you know they would both die normally, you need to explain HOW they survived. The story does not work unless these two things are really addressed because other than that it just a tale that really makes no sense. Sorry to be so brutally honest, but I think there is a potential here.
 

Jam Stunna

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I agree with CK. Things don't just randomly happen in a story. You said that even you don't know how they survived. If the author can't explain it, how is the reader supposed to make sense of it? You can't contradict yourself in a story, or not without a good reason at least.
 

Fawriel

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I'll grant you that I should have elaborated on the circumstances of the accident.

Explaining how they survived would defeat the purpose of the whole story, however. I want the reader to think about that for themselves. I painted a giant picture of how it's impossible for the girl to survive. Yet she does. How? Why?

I suppose that's why people are so divided about the idea. You must obviously have asked yourself how she could have survived and ended with the conclusion that the guy must have somehow managed to still catch her, and that they still couldn't have survived that and that it's just a plot-hole and a case of lacking research.
My mother was also unable to take the idea seriously when I told her about it because, according to herself, she's very practical and just can't get around the fact that it's impossible.

Meanwhile a friend of mine read the story and managed to interpret almost every single detail in it, including the idea that, apparently, the guy's belief in his own principles is so strong that it somehow managed to override reality (in a similar way to how reason overrides emotions and drives according to Kant).

Well, it's obvious that you are a logical person. If you want an explanation that works for you, here you go then: It works because they're in a story.



EDIT: Jam Stunna, I do know how they survived. Again, I want to make the reader think. I would have gladly accepted attempts from other people to come up with their own explanations, but for some reason hardly anyone seems to even attempt to come up with one.
 

Jam Stunna

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I'll grant you that I should have elaborated on the circumstances of the accident.

Explaining how they survived would defeat the purpose of the whole story, however. I want the reader to think about that for themselves. I painted a giant picture of how it's impossible for the girl to survive. Yet she does. How? Why?

I suppose that's why people are so divided about the idea. You must obviously have asked yourself how she could have survived and ended with the conclusion that the guy must have somehow managed to still catch her, and that they still couldn't have survived that and that it's just a plot-hole and a case of lacking research.
My mother was also unable to take the idea seriously when I told her about it because, according to herself, she's very practical and just can't get around the fact that it's impossible.

Meanwhile a friend of mine read the story and managed to interpret almost every single detail in it, including the idea that, apparently, the guy's belief in his own principles is so strong that it somehow managed to override reality (in a similar way to how reason overrides emotions and drives according to Kant).

Well, it's obvious that you are a logical person. If you want an explanation that works for you, here you go then: It works because they're in a story.



EDIT: Jam Stunna, I do know how they survived. Again, I want to make the reader think. I would have gladly accepted attempts from other people to come up with their own explanations, but for some reason hardly anyone seems to even attempt to come up with one.
We're not trying to pile on you at all, but what you just said isn't how a writer should write. If you want to leave things open to interpretation for the reader, that's fine. But meaning is what's usually left open to interpretation, not the actual events. Being ambiguous for its own sake does not make a story better. Why should a reader be forced to fill in the blanks with actual events? If you had explained how he managed to catch her and survive, and left the reader to wonder about where his super-human burst of speed or strength came from, then that's one thing. But there's nothing there. You might as well have written:

She fell out the window, and _____________________________________________. Then they woke up in the hospital."
Do you see what we're getting at? As a writer, it is your job to deliver the necessary elements of a complete story. You essentially skipped the resolution of the climax. The reader should not be made to fill in plot information with their own imagination. That is one of the hallmarks of bad writing. Your mother is right: writing is supposed to be practical, utilitarian, and straight-to-the-point. You're trying to impart your ideas to the reader, and you've purposefully clouded that idea by omitting critical details. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's a matter of the story actually making sense.

CK is right, this story definitely has potential. The ambiguity (among other things) only serves to hamper it.
 

Fawriel

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Yet others managed perfectly well to understand the ending...


I'll take that criticism into account in the future. However, I stand by the fact that the only radical change I would ever make to the story is that I would leave out the last few lines after the revelation that she's alive.
All things considered, it just seems that this is a divide in different ways of thinking. You see the story as a narrative that just informs the reader of events. I see it as a surreal piece that invites the reader into a story and then plays with their minds. I cannot change the way you view it, which is unfortunate, but can't be changed without rewriting it in a way that would turn it into a whole different thing.
The guy did not gain superhuman strength. That's trivial. He's an ordinary human. That's all I'll say.

I won't go on discussing this subject. You made your points, I made mine. We'll have to agree to disagree. Next post of mine will be to announce the next translated short story.
There's the remastered version of my previous WWYP entry and the story I wanted to enter into the WWYP about the Underworld. I like the former better. Should I put the better one at the end for a bang, or go on in descending order of quality to make sure everyone reads the good stuff?
 

Jam Stunna

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I'd say post the ones that you realy want read first. That way, it's more likely for someone to read them.
 

The Mano Games VII

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Well, thanks for listening to our comments anyways. I know you said you wouldn't discuss it anymore, but when I said the length of the story was too short, I wasn't saying to make it longer, I was simply saying that I thought that was one of the things that got in its way. I mean, your story was a short story so that's all I meant by what I said.

Anyways, keep on writing, don't let the bad reviews frustrate you too much. I'll be happy to read anything you want read.
 

Crimson King

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I think the issue Jam and I have is there is no precedence in the story for any way for her to survive. Harry Potter can get away with flying cars because he's a wizard. In that story, there is a precedence. Superman can get away with flying because he is an alien - precedence. The story really needs to come right out say how she survived, because point-blank, as it is I can't see it getting published if you leave that ambiguous. Also, another thing hampering you from getting published is your lack of ability to take criticism. I know it's hard not to get defensive of your work, but you put it out for our opinions. The best advice I can give you, don't let your friends read your work unless you want cheap praise. I had an awful story that my friends loved, and being non-English majors, it was probably good to them, but when I showed it to the class it got cut down, ripped to shreds and I started over. Fact is, we all know what it takes to write a story, and we also know how ****ing painful it is when you idea doesn't work as well as you saw it. The way to fix that is look at how others interpreted the idea wrongly and see why they interpreted it like that. For a non-English speaker, you took quite a step in translating a story to English, and honestly, it has a very British tone of voice to it, which is hard for even Americans to duplicate. You can write; there is no doubting that, but we don't want to see you fall victim to mistakes we had to learn the hard way.

Mano: remember a Short Story is any work of prose under 30,000 or 50,000 words. The work is a short story without a doubt because it has a beginning and an ending, and the details are there. So, don't freak out if it seems TOO short. The point of the story it to do that, tell a story.
 

The Mano Games VII

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I wasn't really freaking out about it, I just thought that might be a reason why the story didn't really have any impact on me, that's all, I'd imagine it'd be harder to really immerse the character in a short story than it is in a novel.

And Crimson is correct about the importance of others advice. I know you have specific ideas of what you want your story to be, and that's fine, just keep others advice in mind when you make your next story. Who knows? You might have a sudden inspiration on how to follow their advice without drastically altering your story. Just think about what we said for a bit ok?
 

Vampirekain

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Wow! Why all the debating about why she/he didn't die!? Not all stories are about facts guys..I always enjoy a story where I have to imagine what happened and how it happened! To be honest I really liked the story and I'm looking forward to reading the next ones!
 

Crimson King

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Wow! Why all the debating about why she/he didn't die!? Not all stories are about facts guys..I always enjoy a story where I have to imagine what happened and how it happened! To be honest I really liked the story and I'm looking forward to reading the next ones!
A. You over use exclamation points.

B. Short stories, even fiction, have to be PLAUSIBLE. If there is a magical ending, it has to have had evidence throughout the story otherwise the reader is left feeling cheated, confused, and downright betrayed. When you commit to reading some for leisure, you are taking a large portion of your time to focus on someone creating a reality. When that reality is skewed by omission of details, that makes the previous few minutes an overall waste and leaves a bad taste in the readers mouth. It's not a horrible tactic, but it should be avoided unless fully developed.

My best example is "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" by Ambrose Bierce. The ending is quite shocking in that the narrator never escaped his hanging and died; however, if you reread the story with this knowledge, there are several hints and ideas at his eventual death all along.
 

Vampirekain

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Crimson King..I do not write stories. Nor short stories..Basically I barely read books/short stories and so on. As a result when I read something I like, I tend to not over analyze it and just enjoy it for what it is.

What I do is studying Hotel Management and when I have time practice martial arts and play video games!
That's what I do Crimson King.
However I know better than to insult someone else intentionally over something like that..Therefore I ask of you to apologize to me cause your little "A." comment was both completely unnecessary and insulting.
 

ericfynn

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
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short story's

The short story is a literary genre of fictional, prose narrative that tends to be more concise and "to the point" than longer works of fiction such as novellas (in the modern sense of the term) and novels. Short stories have their origins in oral story-telling traditions and the prose anecdote, a swiftly-sketched situation that comes rapidly to its point.
 

Crimson King

I am become death
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Joined
Jan 14, 2002
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28,982
And this got way too off topic with a bot and someone posting a pipe. Fawriel, you'll have to just make a new topic later.
 
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