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Shine Properties

ChrisWithAk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
41
I know each of the different spacies have differenct properties on their shine in melee and pm. Fox knocks you downwards and to the side, Falco always hits you up. I was playing around with wolf yesterday and was wondering what the rule is with Wolfs shine/flash and what some of the combos you can do with it are.
 

Sycko

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
19
Location
San Jose
Idk if this is the right thread, but what exactly is the point of multiple shines on a shield. Shouldnt it be a better option to just do shine grab? Once again, sorry if this is the wrong thread. Thanks.
 

Pluttergub

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
26
Idk if this is the right thread, but what exactly is the point of multiple shines on a shield. Shouldnt it be a better option to just do shine grab? Once again, sorry if this is the wrong thread. Thanks.
It's possible to buffer a roll out of shinegrab, but it's not possible to do so out of a doubleshine/multishine. For all practical purposes, shinegrab is usually better than multishining since multishining consistently is extremely difficult. I usually just mix up my shield pressure between shinegrab, doubleshinegrab, and shine aerials.
 

G13_Flux

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,076
multishines are far more frame tight to OOS options.

frame 1: shine, first frame of shieldstun + some frames of hitlag
frame 2 (after hitlag): 2nd frame of shield stun
frame 3: 3rd frame of shieldstun
frame 4: 4th and last frame of shieldstun, shine is JCable (first frame of jumpsquat for wolf)
frame 5: 1st actionable frame for opponent, 2nd frame of jumpsquat for wolf
frame 6: 2nd actionable frame, 3rd frame of jumpsquat
frame 7: 3rd actionable frame, 4th and last frame of jumqsquat for wolf
frame 8: 4th actionable frame, wolfs shine comes out

in other words, you can just barely roll out of wolfs multishine, and since rolls and spotdodges are generally quite punishable during good shine pressure, this puts wolf in a pretty safe position. only characters like bowser, DK, GW, samus, zard, and mario have an up b OOS that has a quick enough hitbox/invincibility to escape it.

compare to shine grab, where wolfs grab would start on the second frame of jumpsquat (frame 5 above), and finally come out on frame 11. That gives the opponent 7 actionable frames to either acquire invincibility, hit you, or even throw out a grab of their own that will collide with yours (the winner of the exchange is determined by port priority.

for all practical purposes, most people arent always frame perfect enough to avoid a shine grab, so it usually works, but just be aware that it isnt frame tight.
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
5,598
Location
Beaumont, TX
multishines are far more frame tight to OOS options.

frame 1: shine, first frame of shieldstun + some frames of hitlag
frame 2 (after shieldlag): 2nd frame of shield stun
frame 3: 3rd frame of shieldstun
frame 4: 4th and last frame of shieldstun, shine is JCable (first frame of jumpsquat for wolf)
frame 5: 1st actionable frame for opponent, 2nd frame of jumpsquat for wolf
frame 6: 2nd actionable frame, 3rd frame of jumpsquat
frame 7: 3rd actionable frame, 4th and last frame of jumqsquat for wolf
frame 8: 4th actionable frame, wolfs shine comes out

in other words, you can just barely roll out of wolfs multishine, and since rolls and spotdodges are generally quite punishable during good shine pressure, this puts wolf in a pretty safe position. only characters like bowser, DK, GW, samus, zard, and mario have an up b OOS that has a quick enough hitbox/invincibility to escape it.

compare to shine grab, where wolfs grab would start on the second frame of jumpsquat (frame 5 above), and finally come out on frame 11. That gives the opponent 7 actionable frames to either acquire invincibility, hit you, or even throw out a grab of their own that will collide with yours (the winner of the exchange is determined by port priority.

for all practical purposes, most people arent always frame perfect enough to avoid a shine grab, so it usually works, but just be aware that it isnt frame tight.
First frame shieldstun overlaps with last frame shieldlag? I'm not actually sure on this detail, but that would surprise me given that's not how normal hitlag and hitstun work. IIRC Falco's double shine beats rolls out, yet if shield lag and shield stun overlap, the same would be true of falco's double shine as you say is true of wolf's double shine- they could buffer roll out. Falco's shine has 5 frames shield stun when fresh, but he also has 5 frames jumpsquat. Wolf having 4 frames shield stun and 4 frames jumpsquat means they shine at the same time relative to when shield stun ends, but I'm think shieldstun doesn't start until the frame after shieldlag. meaning it would look like this for wolf:

frame 1: shine hits shield + some frames of shieldlag
frame 2 (after hitlag): 1st frame of shield stun
frame 3: 2nd frame of shieldstun
frame 4: 3rd frame shieldstun shine is JCable (first frame of jumpsquat for wolf)
frame 5: 4th frame shieldstun, 2nd frame of jumpsquat for wolf
frame 6: 1st actionable frame for opponent, 3rd frame of jumpsquat
frame 7: 2nd actionable frame, 4th and last frame of jumqsquat for wolf
frame 8: 3rd actionable frame, wolfs second shine comes out
frame 9: 4th actionable frame, first possible frame of buffered roll invinc
 
Last edited:

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
Wait, I thought shieldstun was based on damage. Shouldn't all shines do the same shieldstun? Or does Falco's do more damage?
 
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