Shieldpressure as Lucas (and ghetto locks)

[KaptenFullkorn]

EDIT: ALL THIS WAS RESEARCHED IN 1.10 ITS TIME TO REVISIT THE LAB TO SEE IF THIS HAS ANY NEW APPLICATIONS.

Hello all mamas boys! Recently my friends i usually play with have started shielding more and more of my PK fires and zair pokes so that made me think. How good is Lucas shieldpressure? I dedicated a bit time in the lab trying to find efficent ways to inflict as much dmg on the shield as possible while still trying to keep the windows for punishes out of shield as small as i could.

This was what i came up with.

Both examples are tried on a fully charged shield; the first one being [falling Uair, dtilt x2, Fsmash] second one being [zair dtilt, jab 1 & 2, Psi Magnet, Ftilt(sweetspot)]

However this isnt final by all means, I'd like to find out how reliable this actually is - how can your opponent escape it and/ or punish it. I would love to spend some time in the Lab with someone who have much experience labbing. ( @Kodystri im lookin at you seductively)


And lastly, something i noticed while playing around aswell.

It aint anything big or grand at all. But I've read that many of our fellow Lucas players have struggled with the zair dtilt jablock setup. This one is for you, It will kill if the opponent misses the tech or techs in place. However my guess is that its easily avoided by teching away or teching towards Lucas. As the previous - I'd like to do more tests before stating anything final.

Much love / GP

 

[Scootch]

Huh. That is very cool. I will have to try that out later! I am a new Lucas player so if you have any tips for me tell me here: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-lucas-player-any-tips.417139/

 

[BasedGamerAce]

Hello all mamas boys! Recently my friends i usually play with have started shielding more and more of my PK fires and zair pokes so that made me think. How good is Lucas shieldpressure? I dedicated a bit time in the lab trying to find efficent ways to inflict as much dmg on the shield as possible while still trying to keep the windows for punishes out of shield as small as i could.

This was what i came up with.

Both examples are tried on a fully charged shield; the first one being [falling Uair, dtilt x2, Fsmash] second one being [zair dtilt, jab 1 & 2, Psi Magnet, Ftilt(sweetspot)]

However this isnt final by all means, I'd like to find out how reliable this actually is - how can your opponent escape it and/ or punish it. I would love to spend some time in the Lab with someone who have much experience labbing. ( @Kodystri im lookin at you seductively)


And lastly, something i noticed while playing around aswell.

It aint anything big or grand at all. But I've read that many of our fellow Lucas players have struggled with the zair dtilt jablock setup. This one is for you, It will kill if the opponent misses the tech or techs in place. However my guess is that its easily avoided by teching away or teching towards Lucas. As the previous - I'd like to do more tests before stating anything final.

Much love / GP

The 1st shield pressure string seems pretty reliable. The hardest part would probably be landing the falling Uair (because of how weird the hitbox is, at least for me). The 2nd shield pressure string doesn't seems as good as the 1st, but solid either way. Both strings seem like they depend on your opponent not jump-canceling shield (they'll most likely be hit by something if they drop shield, try to grab, or roll), but it's more noticeable in the 2nd string (In the time between the psi magnet and the ftilt). These are just some observations though. I haven't done any testing on this yet, so I can't say how easy it is to escape. Good stuff either way.

Now on to the "Ghetto jablock" (lol). I've know about this for a while and use it as a "last resort" when I need a kill (because it only works at high percents). The opponent can tech it, but they probably won't because of the awkward timing. Out of this you can get a fsmash (no tech), dsmash (no tech for 1st hit, tech in place for 2nd hit), a sweetspot dash attack (tech roll forward), and a grab (tech in place and tech roll forward). The hardest one to punish is when they tech roll towards Lucas because they might end up behind you. The best option to punish this (and kill) is probably a pivot grab or pivot fsmash.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

The 1st shield pressure string seems pretty reliable. The hardest part would probably be landing the falling Uair (because of how weird the hitbox is, at least for me). The 2nd shield pressure string doesn't seems as good as the 1st, but solid either way. Both strings seem like they depend on your opponent not jump-canceling shield (they'll most likely be hit by something if they drop shield, try to grab, or roll), but it's more noticeable in the 2nd string (In the time between the psi magnet and the ftilt). These are just some observations though. I haven't done any testing on this yet, so I can't say how easy it is to escape. Good stuff either way.

Now on to the "Ghetto jablock" (lol). I've know about this for a while and use it as a "last resort" when I need a kill (because it only works at high percents). The opponent can tech it, but they probably won't because of the awkward timing. Out of this you can get a fsmash (no tech), dsmash (no tech for 1st hit, tech in place for 2nd hit), a sweetspot dash attack (tech roll forward), and a grab (tech in place and tech roll forward). The hardest one to punish is when they tech roll towards Lucas because they might end up behind you. The best option to punish this (and kill) is probably a pivot grab or pivot fsmash.

Yeah after a while playing you pretty much summed it all up. Actually pretty spot on lol! Your points on the ghetto lock makes me think we have a similar playstyle on our Lucas. Its great that you summed it all up to share tho!

 

[BasedGamerAce]

Here are the percents that the "Ghetto jablock" (I'm really going to start calling it that) should start working (AKA the percents characters start going into tumble from Zair) for every character (minus the miis and Shulk's different monado forms). I did this all in training mode so rage and staleness (if Zair even stales) would effect the percents. Also, I only did the "sweetspot" (4% hit) because the 2% hit wasn't even working at 170 on Mario.

Mario: 111%
Luigi: 111%
Peach: 106%
Bowser: 129%
Yoshi: 115%
Rosa & Luma: 100%
Bowser Jr.: 116% (might also change depending on if you hit the kart or not)
Wario: 116%
DK: 125%
DDK: 108%
Mr. Game & Watch: 98%
Little Mac: 102%
Link: 115%
Zelda: 104%
Sheik: 104%
Ganondorf: 119%
T. Link: 108%
Samus: 117%
Zamus: 101%
Pit: 110%
Palutena: 107%
Marth: 107%
Ike: 116%
Robin: 109%
Duck Hunt: 107%
Kriby: 99%
DDD: 123%
Metaknight: 101%
Fox: 100%
Falco: 102%
Pikachu: 100%
Charizard: 121%
Lucario: 112%
Jigglypuff: 94%
Greninja: 109%
ROB: 116%
Ness: 109%
Captain Falcon: 115%
Villager: 111%
Olimar: 100%
WFT: 110%
Shulk: 114%
Dr. Mario: 111%
Dark Pit: 110%
Lucina: 107%
Pac-Man: 109%
Mega Man: 114%
Sonic: 109%
Mewtwo: 96%
Lucas: 109%
Roy:109%
Ryu: 114%

Looking at these percents... I should probably start using Zair more at kill percents...and not as a last resort. Hope this is helpful!

 

[JesterJaded]

Here are the percents that the "Ghetto jablock" (I'm really going to start calling it that) should start working (AKA the percents characters start going into tumble from Zair) for every character (minus the miis and Shulk's different monado forms). I did this all in training mode so rage and staleness (if Zair even stales) would effect the percents. Also, I only did the "sweetspot" (4% hit) because the 2% hit wasn't even working at 170 on Mario.

Mario: 111%
Luigi: 111%
Peach: 106%
Bowser: 129%
Yoshi: 115%
Rosa & Luma: 100%
Bowser Jr.: 116% (might also change depending on if you hit the kart or not)
Wario: 116%
DK: 125%
DDK: 108%
Mr. Game & Watch: 98%
Little Mac: 102%
Link: 115%
Zelda: 104%
Sheik: 104%
Ganondorf: 119%
T. Link: 108%
Samus: 117%
Zamus: 101%
Pit: 110%
Palutena: 107%
Marth: 107%
Ike: 116%
Robin: 109%
Duck Hunt: 107%
Kriby: 99%
DDD: 123%
Metaknight: 101%
Fox: 100%
Falco: 102%
Pikachu: 100%
Charizard: 121%
Lucario: 112%
Jigglypuff: 94%
Greninja: 109%
ROB: 116%
Ness: 109%
Captain Falcon: 115%
Villager: 111%
Olimar: 100%
WFT: 110%
Shulk: 114%
Dr. Mario: 111%
Dark Pit: 110%
Lucina: 107%
Pac-Man: 109%
Mega Man: 114%
Sonic: 109%
Mewtwo: 96%
Lucas: 109%
Roy:109%
Ryu: 114%

Looking at these percents... I should probably start using Zair more at kill percents...and not as a last resort. Hope this is helpful!

Thanks a lot for these percents, I didn't even know Zair could tumble a character below 100%. This makes for an even wider range of relatively safe kill options with Lucas, going from Fair > jablock starting at 60% or so to Zair > Jablock only 40% away.

A little off topic, but does anyone know when Fair > jablock stops working?

 

[BasedGamerAce]

Thanks a lot for these percents, I didn't even know Zair could tumble a character below 100%. This makes for an even wider range of relatively safe kill options with Lucas, going from Fair > jablock starting at 60% or so to Zair > Jablock only 40% away.

A little off topic, but does anyone know when Fair > jablock stops working?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSjZMMUwGtI

A video I made that shows that the Zair to Jablock can work (I just assumed you meant Zair to Dtilt Jablock, I'm not even sure what else jab locks at that high percent).

And the Fair to Jablock percents...I have no clue. I've never experimented with Lucas and Jablocks until now, so I've never tested it. I'll try to test it this weekend. If I don't, Wednesday or Thursday for sure (because no school for me)!

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

Gonna give this another run in the lab to see if the shieldchanges in 1.1.1 did any good to these strings or not.

 

[SpandexBullets]

PATCH 1.1.1:

we gotta test his aerials - some of his Brawl power might be back since non of his shield stunning was reduced.

WE MIGHT FINALLY BE BETTER THAN NESS AT SOMETHING

 

[EdreesesPieces]

PATCH 1.1.1:

we gotta test his aerials - some of his Brawl power might be back since non of his shield stunning was reduced.

WE MIGHT FINALLY BE BETTER THAN NESS AT SOMETHING

We're better at recovery

 

[BasedGamerAce]

PATCH 1.1.1:

we gotta test his aerials - some of his Brawl power might be back since non of his shield stunning was reduced.

WE MIGHT FINALLY BE BETTER THAN NESS AT SOMETHING

I wish I could help to, but I'm gonna be away from my wii u, and my cousin doesn't have Lucas...time to go test some doc stuff.

(I just noticed we supposedly have the exact same mains lol)

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

Alright, tested a lot with Spirst.

The main two things I have is that Lucas is great and Kirby sucks.

I'm not too knowledgeable on pre-patch Lucas, but post-patch his F-Air, F-Tilt, D-Tilt, Jab 1, N-Air/D-Air cross up, PK Fire and Z-Air are all safe on shield. PK Fire and Z-Air were safe before, but you had to super space them. Spacing is a lot less strict on them now, so that'll be fun to mess around with.

From our tests, Kirby has nothing that's safe aside from pre-patch things like reverse U-Air. F-Air and D-Air cross up are generally better, but they're still not safe. I really don't know how Kirby is going to do anything now because he can't approach at all, everything he has is unsafe and he's going to struggle punishing much more.

I'll play around with it more but honestly I'm contemplating dropping Kirby. He's really not going to be able to function anymore.

Seems like this patch can be important for Lucas, as stated earlier i wanna do some labbing with this but I'd GLADLY take any help and / or assistance since it seems like my best smashfriends have taken somewhat of an hiatus...

EDIT: SpandexBullets that picture cracked me up lol!

 

[FUEGO!]

Okay, Luigi refugee here. I tried to pick up lucas around when he came out; however I came the the conclusion that the aggressive playstyle that i wished to try with him was impossible when Shields were strong like 1.1.0.

Well, I'm curious if the patch just fixed this problem entirely by making his aerials safe on shields, and therefore we actually have an approach option other than PK fire spam and Zair Spam.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: it is now a day later. I got to play a few people at a meet up with Lucas, and let me tell you...I think my wish has been granted. All of his aerials are MUCH safer on shield, and even can do enough shield damage is combo'd into each other, can break a shield pretty easily.

 

[The Elephant]

How many frames do you have to tech the Zair?