Shield pressure in pm

[USUX_LEGEND]

Any characters with a strong shield pressure game aside from fox falco peach in pm? Im aware of lucas's godly shield pressure already, but are there any others? Also frame traps and mixups/crossups on shield do not count

 

[GeZ]

Shield pressure is a bit specific. Falcon and Mario can really lock down your options, but that doesn't involve trapping you in your shield as much as it involves punishing every transition from shield. Plus shield pressuring is a bit moot if you can get a grab.

 

[Justkallmekai]

Lucas's is so fu[king god like. But I think that Link can shield pressure decently. Oh and Pit can too, he's pretty good at it.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Shield pressure is a bit specific. Falcon and Mario can really lock down your options, but that doesn't involve trapping you in your shield as much as it involves punishing every transition from shield. Plus shield pressuring is a bit moot if you can get a grab.

I like the idea of shield pressure abd chipping down on block, its one of my favorite this to do as rushdown characters in fighting games and smash bros is no exception. Shield pressure is rarely moot either, you wear down the shield stripping the opponent of a defense option and making them more susceptible to shield pokes and shield breaks when they decide to block again. Plus getting a grab is not always optimal because of the risk if you miss and attacking on shield is meant to cover their options when they predict a grab anyway. I just love how shield pressuring adds so much depth to the game and adds so many options to watch for with both players.

I dont understand how you think falcon can catch an opponents out of shield however, or at least better than anybody else. Mario i can understand with his cape and quick jab for mixups and good mobility and aerials to crossup the opponent, but falcon has always been known to have less than steller options on the opponents shield outside of grab and spacing nairs and gentlemens.

Lucas's is so fu[king god like. But I think that Link can shield pressure decently. Oh and Pit can too, he's pretty good at it.

What do link and pit use to pressure on shield?

 

[GeZ]

Shield pressure is meant to cover options, yes, but so few characters can shield pressure so absolutely, and the ones who can, should do so while mixing in grab attempts. If while shielding you hold the C-Stick left or right, it'll buffer rolling at the soonest possible opportunity. If you're paying attention to your opponents habits when shield pressuring, you can use a move OoS to swat them away. If you notice their shield pressure puts them in front of you and isn't perfect (as most characters aren't) you can grab them in between moves.

There's a reason the meta has more of a focus on all the intricacies of grabbing and tech chasing rather than shield pressure, and it's because very very few characters have the tools to shield pressure so well that the opponent can't find a way out. But grabbing is instant, leads to combos or tech chasing, and when used right is a better mixup. Grab game is just more important man. Soz.

And Falcon can run after the opponent and grab to chase rolls, use movement around the opponent to bait out attacks and then punish their ending lag, jab their shield and then grab the opponent, and land behind them when they're shielding so they can't retaliate well.

 

[shairn]

Lucario's shield pressure is pretty daunting.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Shield pressure is meant to cover options, yes, but so few characters can shield pressure so absolutely, and the ones who can, should do so while mixing in grab attempts. If while shielding you hold the C-Stick left or right, it'll buffer rolling at the soonest possible opportunity. If you're paying attention to your opponents habits when shield pressuring, you can use a move OoS to swat them away. If you notice their shield pressure puts them in front of you and isn't perfect (as most characters aren't) you can grab them in between moves.

There's a reason the meta has more of a focus on all the intricacies of grabbing and tech chasing rather than shield pressure, and it's because very very few characters have the tools to shield pressure so well that the opponent can't find a way out. But grabbing is instant, leads to combos or tech chasing, and when used right is a better mixup. Grab game is just more important man. Soz.

And Falcon can run after the opponent and grab to chase rolls, use movement around the opponent to bait out attacks and then punish their ending lag, jab their shield and then grab the opponent, and land behind them when they're shielding so they can't retaliate well.

I could argue with you about shield pressures place in the meta, but its just something i like to do and have fun doing. On characters like fox in melee shield pressure is a reliable alternative to simple shinegrab shdnanigans, neither is truly better than the other except that shield pressure is far more technical, just like how playing a campy fox, or an aggressive fox or a dashdancing fox or a shine heavy fox isnt a "better" playstyle than the alternatives, though some are more technical than the others. I love pressuring shields and was aware of how few characters are capable of it which is why i wanted to ask if there were any other characters that were capable of it. And if you get your opponent to buffer roll everytime you contact their shield then youve already won.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Lucario's shield pressure is pretty daunting.

How does lucarios pressure work

 

[shairn]

Because of Lucario's move-canceling mechanics, so long as he keeps to jabs/tilts, it's difficult to do anything OOS.

 

[Guilu]

Can't you cancel Lucario's moves into his command grab (Side B) as well ? I don't know how safe that is, but the thought of it is certainly not reassuring.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Can't you cancel Lucario's moves into his command grab (Side B) as well ? I don't know how safe that is, but the thought of it is certainly not reassuring.

If so itll probably be something like a slow shine grab

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Can't you cancel Lucario's moves into his command grab (Side B) as well ? I don't know how safe that is, but the thought of it is certainly not reassuring.

Yup, you can.
My friend thinks Dash Attack is a good approach because of it.
If the other guy shields, instant command grab.
If he gets hit, you have follow ups.
If he rolls, nothing is lost.

So yeah, Lucario's shield pressure is pretty damn good.

I dunno if he's a reliable source of smash advice, though.

 

[GeZ]

Yup, you can.
My friend thinks Dash Attack is a good approach because of it.
If the other guy shields, instant command grab.
If he gets hit, you have follow ups.
If he rolls, nothing is lost.

So yeah, Lucario's shield pressure is pretty damn good.

I dunno if he's a reliable source of info, though.

Dash attack xx command grab is escapeable, albeit a bit difficult to escape. Dash attack is a bit of an obvious approach though, since it's fairly stuffable, spot dodgeable, and grabbable by some characters. But you are right, Lucario's shield pressure is pretty sweet.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Dash attack xx command grab is escapeable, albeit a bit difficult to escape. Dash attack is a bit of an obvious approach though, since it's fairly stuffable, spot dodgeable, and grabbable by some characters. But you are right, Lucario's shield pressure is pretty sweet.

Yeah, I figured it wasn't that great of an option.
I'll just let my friend believe it's godlike and make him feel silly

 

[Mera Mera]

Yup, you can.
My friend thinks Dash Attack is a good approach because of it.
If the other guy shields, instant command grab.
If he gets hit, you have follow ups.
If he rolls, nothing is lost.

So yeah, Lucario's shield pressure is pretty damn good.

I dunno if he's a reliable source of smash advice, though.

I don't play Lucario but I've read on good bit on Lucario and I play a good one. From what I've heard, f-tilt -> command grab combos on shield if f-tilt is fresh, but f-tilt is slow enough where x -> f-tilt is always escapable (x being dash attack or one of the jab hits). Anything else on shield should not be able to lead to command grab reliably.

Also Lucario's dash attack is not a great approach from what I've read and experienced. If you have a charge you should pretty much only approach with down B canceled down smash or aerial down B canceled bair from what I hear. Maybe other down B cancels or up B cancels are viable approaches, but my point is Lucario's neutral game is terrible without a charge. While dash attack is one of his best options when he doesn't have a charge, that's not saying much.

But yeah, even though it has some holes in it, Lucario's shield pressure game is definitely good.

 

[Justkallmekai]

I like the idea of shield pressure abd chipping down on block, its one of my favorite this to do as rushdown characters in fighting games and smash bros is no exception. Shield pressure is rarely moot either, you wear down the shield stripping the opponent of a defense option and making them more susceptible to shield pokes and shield breaks when they decide to block again. Plus getting a grab is not always optimal because of the risk if you miss and attacking on shield is meant to cover their options when they predict a grab anyway. I just love how shield pressuring adds so much depth to the game and adds so many options to watch for with both players.

I dont understand how you think falcon can catch an opponents out of shield however, or at least better than anybody else. Mario i can understand with his cape and quick jab for mixups and good mobility and aerials to crossup the opponent, but falcon has always been known to have less than steller options on the opponents shield outside of grab and spacing nairs and gentlemens.

What do link and pit use to pressure on shield?

My froend shield pressures with Link using all his items and his Usmash, surprisingly it'll somewhat work, and Pit he can use his neutral air that'll work for the most part and his Fsmash maybe.

 

[Guilu]

What about Lucario's down air to command grab ? How safe is it ?

 

[KhanYe]

What about Lucario's down air to command grab ? How safe is it ?

Safe, provided you crossover the opponents' shield, you can cancel the first hit of dair into force palm.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Wolf
Cause is space animal

 

[Mera Mera]

What about Lucario's down air to command grab ? How safe is it ?

Oh yeah, people were saying that's really good (and you can use it as an out of shield option). I don't know if it's guaranteed, but it is good regardless.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Lucarios shield pressure is so good that people are advised to only shield when really necessary, so you can guess its pretty good...

 

[Fortress]

What do link and pit use to pressure on shield?

'Rangs, bombs, and Z-airs are extremely good options. You can break an opponent's shield by instant-tossing the same bomb at an opponent's shield over and over, though it takes a high degree of skill to do. 'Rangs are quick and easy, and can always be used to punish the opponent's movement choice from shield. Z-air is an extremely safe poke with decent damage and multiple hits.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Do you have footage of that bomb toss shield break?

 

[Empyrean]

@ Fortress too bad the guy you're responding to got banned yesterday.

 

[Fortress]

Do you have footage of that bomb toss shield break?

Hylian does somewhere, I'm sure. Check out the Link threads.

@ Fortress too bad the guy you're responding to got banned yesterday.

Eh, other people can at least read it.

 

[9bit]

@ Fortress too bad the guy you're responding to got banned yesterday.

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure he'll read it on his next account.

 

[Empyrean]

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure he'll read it on his next account.

Give him 2 weeks, he'll be back.

 

[Justkallmekai]

Lucarios shield pressure is so good that people are advised to only shield when really necessary, so you can guess its pretty good...

Yea you're actually right, Lucario is good at shield pressuring.

 

[Phaiyte]

Lucarios shield pressure is so good that people are advised to only shield when really necessary, so you can guess its pretty good...

That is a basic fundamental in this game.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Yeah, but against Lucario you take rather risky spot dodges more instead of shielding I mean generally you should avoid it but against Lucario you have to avoid it extra hard...

 

[Rat]

Wolf's only block strings only come from lasers.

Wolf's NAir is 0 on block
Wolf's DAir is -3 on block

So NAir, Shine does not lock the opponent in their shield.