Shield poking/breaking

[M@1funk$hun]

So I'm getting more consistent with predicting when people are going to shield, and I personally feel that absolutely decimating their shield would be something good to do in a match. Some may say grabs are better, but it's not like the information I'm asking for is gonna be bad
so what moves on Mario are good for breaking a shield?
sh fair seems a little too risky on shield. I remember j3ly saying something about
bair waveland uair uair on a shield then throwing a nair to poke through
but I'm looking for more of a omgshieldbreak kind of thing
shield-stun statistics would be very useful

 

[Blanky]

man idk dude. when it comes to shield pressure, mario isnt really the greatest. dont know what move would be best for a shield poke.

EDIT: this post was completely pointless. holla.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

man idk dude. when it comes to shield pressure, mario isnt really the greatest. dont know what move would be best for a shield poke.

EDIT: this post was completely pointless. holla.

psh go lick your scrotum

 

[j3ly]

Some chars have the option of attempting to break the opponents shield on a successful reaction/prediction. Mario does not, unless they roll a ridiculous amount.

You are much better of using a spaced move against the shield to push your advantage.
In smash as long as you space well against their shield they can't do anything offensive. I'm not sure if mario can outspace a perfect CPU marth, but take my word that he can outspace every other characters shield.

Not accounting for peoples WD oos habits: You are better off trying to bait after a hit on the shield. Bait, or jab (following an l-cancel close to the ground). Unless, you're first hit was a bair waveland (waveland behind them), and you followed up with some sexyness I need to make a vid about. We do not have a frame advantage on said sexyness, but seriously who if going to see it comming. Deathgazer do, but Deathgazer has been dealing with bair waveland for comming up to a year.

My theory is that if you space a bair against a shield, and waveland in the same short hop you are guaranteed a shield spike on the 3rd attack (2nd against characters with a small shield).

Attack 1 - Bair (waveland behind).
Attack 2 - Uair/bair (during waveland, so you keep 100% of the momentum).
Attack 3 - You're choice. I Recommend nair, bair, uair, Fh FF dair. Fh FF dair will auto-cancel and combo into anything combo-able. You could bait at this point if you want, if they have you're pattern on lock and roll/WD oos perfectly every time.

As I said, mario doesn't have the option of going for a shield break unless you have some kind of psychic powers, and you're opponent never wd's oos. Bait after a spaced attack, or do that sequence above, so far I've not found any other effective options.

"GRAB WHENEVER EFFING POSSIBLE,"
Bamsey et.al.

 

[j3ly]

The above applies only to moves that don't give alot of time for the opponent to react, i.e forwards usmash, ftilt.

The reason I say forwards is because backwards usmash pushes a shielding opponent away, alot.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

yeah, backwards usmash is a great combo starter
more of a "do it oos" option than "on a shield" option
and I understand about the grab thing, it's just I would hate for not only me, but Mario as a character
to become predictable
because then we're going to have to work even harder for our grabs against people who know the matchup

 

[condemned_soul]

just because we have grabs does not make it to where we HAVE to use them. I see plenty of marios that rarely grab and do pretty well (N0ne).

im different because if I see i can get the grab im going for it since the combo will be worth it in the long run.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

so after a little experimenting I've found spaced fair and jabs to be the most effective
spaced bair just doesn't do it for me
and if you space the fair right it does a nice hit to the shield and anyone that isn't marth won't grab you
and about the jabs, mario's have little to no down time in between so I use them similar to pikachu's
the one part where they can grab you is after you get the kick out they can grab you, but it takes some pretty strict timing

 

[A2ZOMG]

I like F-smashing against shields.

 

[Moof]

a lot of times a sh cape to uair or dair can catch 'em off gaurd (shield grabbers bane)

 

[StealthyGunnar]

moof tellin truth./

 

[Blanky]

moof tellin truth./

troof*
10charz

 

[MarioMariox2]

TBH, Dsmash. Don't shieldbreak, go around it!

 

[StealthyGunnar]

<3 dsmash <3

 

[M@1funk$hun]

lolwut? dsmash is too punishable for me unless you space it. like whenever I dsmash on shield I always end up shielding myself which messes up my flow.
another update

down-b shield pokes

=3

 

[MarioMariox2]

Hey, it worked for peach! I wish Mario's hitboxes were finished already so we can see if it's 100% viable since it appears milage is varying.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

same, but I know there is frame data somewhere I just gotta find it
might get going on that in a few
but anyway I've also been experimenting with reverse uairs just in general
bair->reverse uair ->dj -> bair-> reverse uair is an easy combo on floaties (they don't even have to be that low on percent) with bad DI it's possible to do it on c. falc

 

[MarioMariox2]

Does the last hitbox of Uair hit the opponent horizontal like how Falcon's uair does?

 

[M@1funk$hun]

nope it's like a weak uair but with the same dmg

 

[condemned_soul]

im starting to bair alot more for spacing and its been working out for me

 

[j3ly]

way harder, but far better to do it with uair aswell

 

[StealthyGunnar]

ive found that if u shbair at low % and they **** up di and di toward u, u can utilt and hit them

 

[M@1funk$hun]

so I found a seemingly gimmicky/funny option today
when you are on somebody's shield, cape it.
you can space the cape so it just hits the shield, but it's funny as hell when they try to punish you with a shield grab

 

[StealthyGunnar]

lol i was just thinking about that. ya beat me to it

 

[M@1funk$hun]

the best is when you do it on like link or samus. someone with a massive lag on their grab. I caped their shield and when they went for the grab I just DD'd a bunch

 

[StealthyGunnar]

lol or do it to samus on her shield, and cape her again, when her grab is wtill out lol.

 

[j3ly]

lol u shouldn't really consider being shield grabbed a good option. instead of accepting it you should get angry that you made a mistake like that

i never liked the cape the shield, too slow unless you SH cape-> late aerial -> grab. bair is normally quick spacing move for alot of chars. but still lulzy

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i really wouldnt do this **** in a tourney. maybe friendlies lol.

 

[j3ly]

if a falco likes to sh dair oos, and you are near the edge, caping that sh dair oos makes them pivot SD, lol.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

lol i wanna see that.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

that's awfully specific
and I'm not entirely sure why the falco would do that
but hey you're in the UK
don't know what you crazy mofos do up there
=P

 

[condemned_soul]

actaully i would like to keep this thread alive until i know the best way to shield break with mario. whats the best way to shield break as maro?

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I DON'T KNOW
THATS WHY I MADE THE THREAD
AND I STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT
all of his hitboxes feel so god dam soft

 

[condemned_soul]

A@ZOMG shed some knowledge on us so we can be one step better at being a good mario

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I wanna recruit boss back man, he knew what was up
DJ nintendo didn't play much mario at ROM3 either so I was kinda depressed
although his bowser was the ****

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you're trying to break shields with Mario, you're probably playing way too unsafe. Mario's pressure game isn't suited to work for extended periods of time like the pressure games of Falcon or space animals. It's intended to go for simple punishes when people squirm out of shield, and creating combo opportunities.

High damage moves like F-smash and F-air may take a nice chunk out of shields. But when your best go-to move for keeping people locked down is your Jab combo, you're really not going to be breaking shields with your pressure game. Maybe if all your aerials did as much damage as Ganon's, then we could start considering shield break possibilities.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I suppose you're right...
*sigh* I really wanted an epic shield break too...that would just be so great to pull off
dtilt is good for poking. that's about all I learned in the past day or so

 

[condemned_soul]

well i guess im going to leave shield breaking with mario alone sadly

 

[MarioMariox2]

Dair -> Jab -> Retreating Dsmash to shield break?

 

[condemned_soul]

does that work?