Sheik's Downsmash as a KO move?

[Suo]

Lately I've been seconding Sheik, working on edgeguarding and spacing etc.

I quickly realized that Downsmash is my favourite move of Sheik and would spam it, probably too much.

I noticed two things, Sheik can easily get many opponents to the edges/off of the stage. I also noticed that Sheik's downsmash, fresh, when used away from the middle of the stage actually packs quite a punch.

Could it be a viable KO tool? I'm thinking of using a playstyle with no downsmashing, and instead punishing mistakes near the edge with it when the opponent is at 120-ish percent, hopefully resulting in easier KO's.

Thoughts?

 

[imdavid]

Its a viable KO move at 130+ percent and chances are your dsmash is so decayed it wont work... but at that high of a percent, its really hard to set up a KO seeing how nothing combos well anymore. Youre just better off transforming if they are that high of a percent

try dsmash -> transform , safer ko option

 

[SinkingHigher]

No point really. Edgeguarding will KO in half the time it takes to get them to the appropriate percentage.

I would say use it near the ledge to set up an edgeguard, not to KO.

 

[The Great Leon]

it has a nice trajectory when youre on the ledge

e.g. vs falcos side b

 

[Tristan_win]

Sheik downsmash is like meta knights just longer lasting (more lag)

If you don't use it then yes it's a great killing move since it's so easy to land but since most sheik style depend on it to punish then it quickly gets decayed especially in match ups were you can't tilt combos very effectively.

I would personally like to see a sheik style of not using the downsmash as a punisher, mainly so I could copy your strategies and add them to my own ^^.

Anyways if you are going to try to use your downsmash for kill then you should keep in mind
1. You can change directions with all of your attack including your ftilt (one frame slower then dsmash)
2. For charaters that you can't tilt combo easily the chain may help make this disadvantage in a few match ups (like Peach and such)
3. You should only use it semi near the edge and make sure you hit them with the first kick of the dsmash. I'm pretty sure it's stronger then the last.

 

[-Mars-]

You really shouldn't be ko'ing with this as it's one of her best moves. Besides ftilt, this is probably her best out of shield option.

I love to use buffered dsmashes, those are too quick.

 

[Suo]

Yea I definitely get that it is a very valuable move in Sheik's arsenal.

My reasoning behind giving up the awesome punishing ability of D-smash, for the only slightly less effective Jab and Tilt game Sheik has, is that if I can get my opponent to 120-130% I now have two major options for KO's.

I can either go for the Fair, Bair, or Nair KO, or I can punish them with the extremely fast and easy to land Downsmash.

Suddenly the opponent has to respect both the ground and the air, and any mistake while grounded could lead to a KO. I find that the Upsmash is just to slow to be a really viable tool on the ground, consistently at least.

I do concede that it might be more effective to train my Zelda to a decent level and go D-smash>Transform, but their are already many Sheik players that are experimenting with that playstyle.

I really believe Sheik has a lot of potential to be great, it just might require thinking out of the box

Mind you, this is mostly theory on my part, and I need to do more testing and training. I'll be using Sheik for counter picking at the next bi-weekly in my area, I'll be sure to post about my experiences.

Maybe, just maybe, this could be a viable strategy.

 

[sniperworm]

I believe that saving the Dsmash for killing could be a really good strategy (especially if you don't like using / are not good with Zelda). Sheik has a lot of quick moves that could be used to punish things rather than repeatedly using Dsmash. It should also be noted that since Sheik has a relatively low damage output per hit, as long as you stop using Dsmash by about mid-percents, it'll probably be fairly fresh by the time you're ready to kill.

For me, this strategy would never work because I love to use Dsmash too much. Luckily for me, since I main Zelda/Sheik, I have no problem changing to Zelda if necessary (I'm usually don't have to switch for kills though).

 

[hurricaneap60]

I don't use dmash often because my friends are quite good at punishing it.
Instead I use lots of grabs, jabs, bair and sometimes fair approaches, and tilts.
To punish people who anticipate my grabs and spotdodge, I fsmash because it's easier to follow up a fmash than a dsmash.

Regardless, I end up not killing with dsmash more than once every couple of matches simply because it's easier for me to predict rolls/techs/jumps with an usmash(sheik's or zelda's) or to gimp them.

 

[choknater]

This is Drephen's move, and it works the same way as it does in Melee.

Watch Drephen Melee videos and you will understand the true meaning of Sheik's down smash.

Explanations can only do so much.

 

[hurricaneap60]

I've watched way too many melee videos, haha. I know who drephen is, and I used to play some sheik in melee, and a good friend of mine had a competent sheik.

I understand the merit behind Drephen's style but...
The people I play are cautious, patient players who rarely throw themselves into situations where a spotdodge would land an easy smash.
Of course whenever they DO approach recklessly, I put on my robe and wizard hat.... and go drephen on their *****.

I probably play this way because I am forced to approach/punish agressively the characters I play against: most notably DDD. Plus, a handful of whiffed dsmashes have become bats in my face from the same guy who also plays Ness. I've also experienced quite a few shieldgrabs MID-dsmash which were annoying.

I've also found that instead of dsmashing, a jab combo/tilt lock/grab and follow up/all three will often lead to the same amount of damage (or more) and are also less punishable, so I've been fine with these alternatives. This also keeps the dsmash fresh for when it is more difficult to rack up damage: namely from 70% (tilt stops working AS well) to 120% (when an upsmash can reliably kill)

Largely it's a matter of playing safe on the ground and saving your insanity until they are off the ledge ^^

 

[choknater]

yeah, jabbing/tilts is very safe if you want to hit someone close to you

but for cases like where marth can up-B you out of tilt/jab lag

you should dsmash

dsmash is the safe move, the easy way out

i feel a tinge of satisfaction when i hit someone hard after pressing c-stick down

that is true drephen styling

btw

even if people play patient on you...

drephen is the MOST patient

therefore

drephen styling = never missing dsmash

or

never using a punishable dsmash

heheh

happy dsmashing everyone

dsmash perfectly

 

[demodemo]

if you get all of the hits of the downsmash off (cornerias wall) it does like 30 soemthing damage. I got 34% off an uncharged dsmash fresh, it was awesome haha