Sheik vs Marth stage discussion

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I recently picked up Sheik as a secondary to beat Marth until I'm more confident in the MU. Since I play Roy, they obviously won't stage strike with Sheik in mind.

Question: From best to worst, what stages should Sheik go to in the Marth MU?
(out of FD, BF, Dreamland, Fountain, Pokestadium, Yoshi's)

 

[TheCandyman]

I'm a marth main and I can't speak for all of us but I really like Pokemon Stadium, maybe it's personal preference because even on that stage playing sheik or falco I feel really comfortable. But I know most Marth like FD and Yoshi's. Dreamland is annoying as marth. And BF and Fountain are pretty even but due to the MU naturally being in Sheik's favor and with Sheik being great on Bf I don't really know.

tl;dr Marths like FD and Yoshi's alot and starting to like PS. DL64 pretty bad for marth, BF Sheiks like. FoD pretty even

EDIT: Sheiks are also starting to like DL64 more recently (Not sure about you though)

 

[Gいたん]

I recently picked up Sheik as a secondary to beat Marth until I'm more confident in the MU. Since I play Roy, they obviously won't stage strike with Sheik in mind.

Question: From best to worst, what stages should Sheik go to in the Marth MU?
(out of FD, BF, Dreamland, Fountain, Pokestadium, Yoshi's)

sup budder

I don't entirely know for a fact what the best and worst stages are, but in my opinion it goes like this:
Yoshi's>FoD>Dreamland>BF/Stadium>FD
I prefer to go to Yoshi's or FoD against marth, mainly because on Yoshi's i can get good Dthrow conversions to rack up damage, have them land on the platform and tech and tech chase from under with up air, and depending on percentage and DI react from there
Usually im able to get another up air into a fair in that situation, but sometimes i might Land and then dash a little until my feet aren't on the platform and rising bair
Up smash also tippers through the platforms so thats a pretty good thing to keep in mind
Edge guarding on yoshi's is pretty easy because the stage is smaller, if they aren't dying off of the blast zone they'll be in arial needle sniping range. When you snipe them their recovery gets worse due to the needle knocking them further and further down
Another thing ive learn to do is when im on the ledge and they're side b'ing in range, jump and do a reverse needle landing on the stage, shooting a needle at him and then quickly dash wavedash turn around to grab the ledge from him
Otherwise i just watch his recovery and jump out and try to bair him. If he's high enough up and trying to get back by side bing or just falling toward the ledge jumping out and rising bair does well.
Ledge fall > Rising bair is also very good against marth because you can push him away from the ledge with even a weak rising bair, and by the time youve risen you got the ledge and that invincibility and his only option is to up b to his depressing death

On Fountain you can do falling arials from platforms really well, like running off of the platform and fairing or bairing, the same up airs to platform tech chase, and also can up smash tipper through platforms here on certain heights
Stage is also good because from under them while theyre on platform up tilt will poke at the lower heights and you can react with your follow ups from there, same things apply as yoshis. For the most part that was just general advice on the MU but yu know

Also a good mixup on tech chasing other than them u airs and **** is jumping and wavelanding on the platform to regrab. You can waveland in place and shield if you think they'll getup attack and if they roll you can jump and waveland in the direction of the roll and chase with that regrab to d throw follow up

I've heard Dreamland is a really good stage against marth because you can zone him out with your needles well due to the size of the stage, and Marth could possibly have difficulties killing while you have the edgeguarding edge over him with all of the things i mentioned imo
FD is alright for me, i dont do too bad because i can get some pretty good zero to deaths and can keep him out with needles in the meantime but Marth can juggle you for years with no platforms to retreat to or land on
Battlefield and stadium i feel they do pretty evenly against eachother on tho
hope u enjoy the best character in the game bruh glhf

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

sup budder

I don't entirely know for a fact what the best and worst stages are, but in my opinion it goes like this:
Dreamland
I prefer to go to Yoshi's or FoD against marth, mainly because on Yoshi's i can get good Dthrow conversions to rack up damage, have them land on the platform and tech and tech chase from under with up air, and depending on percentage and DI react from there
Usually im able to get another up air into a fair in that situation, but sometimes i might Land and then dash a little until my feet aren't on the platform and rising bair
Up smash also tippers through the platforms so thats a pretty good thing to keep in mind
Edge guarding on yoshi's is pretty easy because the stage is smaller, if they aren't dying off of the blast zone they'll be in arial needle sniping range. When you snipe them their recovery gets worse due to the needle knocking them further and further down
Another thing ive learn to do is when im on the ledge and they're side b'ing in range, jump and do a reverse needle landing on the stage, shooting a needle at him and then quickly dash wavedash turn around to grab the ledge from him
Otherwise i just watch his recovery and jump out and try to bair him. If he's high enough up and trying to get back by side bing or just falling toward the ledge jumping out and rising bair does well.
Ledge fall > Rising bair is also very good against marth because you can push him away from the ledge with even a weak rising bair, and by the time youve risen you got the ledge and that invincibility and his only option is to up b to his depressing death

On Fountain you can do falling arials from platforms really well, like running off of the platform and fairing or bairing, the same up airs to platform tech chase, and also can up smash tipper through platforms here on certain heights
Stage is also good because from under them while theyre on platform up tilt will poke at the lower heights and you can react with your follow ups from there, same things apply as yoshis. For the most part that was just general advice on the MU but yu know

Also a good mixup on tech chasing other than them u airs and **** is jumping and wavelanding on the platform to regrab. You can waveland in place and shield if you think they'll getup attack and if they roll you can jump and waveland in the direction of the roll and chase with that regrab to d throw follow up

hope u enjoy the best character in the game bruh glhf

larkins you high as ****

 

[Gいたん]

larkins you high as ****

as u can tell from my dp

edited and added some stuff btw dont know if u saw ily royboy

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

as u can tell from my dp

edited and added some stuff btw dont know if u saw ily royboy

mfw Marth strikes Fountain for Roy and u get memeland for Sheik

 

[The Lemon]

Everyone's sort of saying different things, so I guess I'll continue the trend and give my opinion as well as what I notice from the top players play this MU. That being, people like Shroomed vs PPU, or M2K vs PPMD. I also play this MU a lot, and this is the opinion of what my Marth friend have decided to agree on.

The tl;dr from best to worst for Sheik is:
DL, FoD/BF/PS, FD, YS



Here's my long opinion on stages in Sheik vs Marth:

So what do stages alter in this MU? They alter, punish games, neutral game, and edgeguard opportunities. Marth likes to stay below Sheik, and get her off stage for pretty much a guaranteed punish. Sheik's punish game should stay about the same regardless of the stage, except for FD, where you get guaranteed follow-ups because there are no platforms for Marth to DI to after being dthrow'ed. Yeah, you get a tech chase if he DI's to a platform, which is almost a guaranteed fair or bair, but that's just 12%-13%. You get a lot more without the platforms. Without the platform, you get either a utilt, usmash, or DA, which then leads to more stuff, and again, it's all guaranteed as long as you practice it (it's also not that hard to get down). Check KK's guide on combo'ing off dthrow for the flow-chart. Trust me, your punishes are harder when there is no platform to tech to.

So here's the deal, Sheik's game doesn't really change from stage to stage (offensively, at least), so when we pick stages, we pick more to minimize, Marth's advantages. Those being, he beats Sheik in the neutral, he has easy edgeguards on Sheik, and it's easy to keep Sheik in the air once you get her there. Btw, your goal while recovering is not always to just try to not get hit after you upB, but a lot of times, you need to just accept that you will be fsmashed after you upB onto stage. But, you want to DI so that when you recover again, you don't have to upB to get back on stage, or so that you can beat Marth to the edge. Usually this happens if you force Marth to, for example, fsmash you to the other side of the stage because you upB'ed behind him.

DL is almost universally good for any Sheik vs Marth. Fsmash pretty much never reaches the side platforms, so edgeguarding is a lot harder for Marth if you can get to those platforms. Utilt will barely reach, so tech chasing on platforms is harder too. The top platform is extra high so it's easier for Sheik to get down when Marth hits her up. You also get a lot of room to work with in the neutral, which on smaller stages, Marth will often push you to the corner. Again, your combo game is about the same, but the high side platforms make it hard for Marth to DI to a platform in your combos. You also live to high %'s here.

Now I'll talk about the next 3 together. BF is generally considered neutral, and then FoD and PS are personal preference I think. I personally like bigger stages, so I like PS more. FoD, I just feel really cramped, and then I feel like I get pushed off-stage a lot more. Yes, I can tilt through the platforms, but on other platform stages, I can SH uair through the platforms, so it's only a slight upgrade. Also, the platforms sometimes stop me from SHFFL fairing over Marth's dtilts, which is your primary solution to that. As an extra note, you should probably be weary that on PS, your SH makes you land on the platforms exactly, so if you aren't aware, you might end up flopping an aerial and just land on the platform. Anyways, BF is pretty comfortable. Size is enough for you to work with in neutral, not super difficult to get down from the air. You can be hit by a tipper from one side of the stage to the other and recover without having to upB sometimes...

FD used to be considered good for Sheik, but not Marths are becoming more precise with their attacks. Sheik has poor mobility in the air, so she can't really do the whole, fall one way, then DJ the other to get away. If the Marth knows the MU, after any up-attack, he can stay under her and uair'ing her back up. Yes, Sheik lives longer, and has harder punishes, which is why people thought this stage was better for Sheik, but the poor aerial mobility turned out to be a big deal. I personally, am sometimes fine with this stage though, but I guess games are pretty inconsistent here since both characters' punish games are better here.

Finally, YS. You get hit off stage really easily here. Little room to move. Platforms are at a height that's good for Marth to juggle on. Even the top platform is only a FJ away for Marth. You get more edgeguard opportunities here as well, and maybe you can kill Marth with an uair earlier, but Marth just gets way more advantages. I would ban this stage, but I don't think it's that big of a difference, here and some other stages. If you just like this stage because you play on it a lot, then sure, go ban FD, PS, or FoD, or w/e you prefer.

 

[Gいたん]

my post just got bodied by knowlege lmao
Good stuff @ The Lemon i learned too ayyy

 

[B0MB]

I seem to have the easiest time beating Marth on Battlefield, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Scrandino]

I main Sheik and I feel that at low to mid level I win 70% of the time against Marth. To be honest Sheik has all the tools you need to beat a Marth on just about all stages. I would ban FD and Pokemon though because Marth has some good juggles/combos on Sheik there. Battlefield is a good neutral stage, so is Dream land. Fountain of Dreams is highly in your favor, and Yoshi's story is a little hard at times. Yoshi's is good if you have really good pressure and you are good at getting in on Marth. If the Marth has really good spacing and is just walling you out then maybe a small stage like Yoshi's is a good pick. Sheik defiantly has advantages on some stage against Marth, but it doesn't really matter if you don't know the match up. Best of luck, have fun beating Marth's! (Stages from best to worst) Fountain of Dreams, Dream land, Battle Field, Yoshi's story, Pokemon Stadium, Final Destination.

 

[Luno896]

ok so final destination vs marth is EZ money because once you grab him he's dead (or at 60% higher than before not including techchases), I also like Yoshi's a lot but that's just a me thing (also sweetspot upsmash through platforms is hype), but FoD and Dreamland are probably the best after FD and I'd say Pokemon Stadium is the worst just because of the tiny sides and ****ty transformations. Marths will think FD is a good option against you because marths tend to love FD but they are the most wrong about that. If you can get good at marth combos/punishes and take Marth to FD every time you'll be all set. Honestly with Sheik it's probably more about what you're comfortable with, and you'll want to pick a stage to complement that.

 

[krazyzyko]

Go to FoD or DL
Ban YS

 

[EddyBearr]

Dream Land 64 is the best stage for Sheik against Marth, almost definitively.

I think Battlefield is really good too.

I'm okay with Pokemon Stadium.

Yoshi's Story and Final Destination can be concerning but can be fine.

I dislike Fountain of Dreams against Marth. I think he gets more out of the stage than Sheik does in this matchup.