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sheik sucks(Link is up)

Devilution

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
353
Location
I ****ing love ****.
I need help with against sheik...so I've been playing Sago's sheik lately and well... all he does is dashdance...wait for a move...grab...tilts...aerials...edgeguard. DONE.

but if I get off an u-air or f-air he's dead... basically its whoever gets the first hit off is dead and well...he usually gets the first hit off because sheik is broken.

help?

Heres the match. http://youtube.com/watch?v=xomQa1ylI6Q
 

Koorii

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
45
I'm not so hot against shiek either...but it isn't a good match up anyway...ganon's best bet is his double jump mind games, platform landing and such...the best tactic is to waveland grab...sheik can be chain grabbed 0-death...double jump mind games and Uair are usually good too. the ground or the air isn't a good zone for ganon to fight on. I also found out that foward tilt does wonders against sheik, to keep her from getting in close.
 

CHAOSDRAGON88

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
848
Location
New York city
Your in luck, I am a Sheik/Zelda and i'll give u help. But what is broken? Does that mean that she's supposed to be overpowed ? If you think so your terribly mistaken and the only advantage she has is the attack speed. she is extremely weak and doesnt have a anti-flinch factor and in order to get a kill the opponent must be combo'd to death. but not to get off topic though, be more patient and try to learn their attack pattern.
 

CHAOSDRAGON88

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
848
Location
New York city
Do you know if when i hit the 100 post mark i'll turn into a "journey man"? Those needles can peg you with about 20 damage, but who do you play with? I am kind of mad because i have the same body shape(Muscles too) as ganon and they always mark us as slow. I am the fastest runner i know. I hope they make him fast.
 

joshisrad

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
1,545
Your in luck, I am a Sheik/Zelda and i'll give u help. But what is broken? Does that mean that she's supposed to be overpowed ? If you think so your terribly mistaken and the only advantage she has is the attack speed. she is extremely weak and doesnt have a anti-flinch factor and in order to get a kill the opponent must be combo'd to death. but not to get off topic though, be more patient and try to learn their attack pattern.
Do you know if when i hit the 100 post mark i'll turn into a "journey man"? Those needles can peg you with about 20 damage, but who do you play with? I am kind of mad because i have the same body shape(Muscles too) as ganon and they always mark us as slow. I am the fastest runner i know. I hope they make him fast.
if I may,

O_o
 

linkmastersword

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,587
Location
Herndon and Newport News, Virginia
ok, some tips in the match up, this is one I have massive experience in as my brother is a sheik main.

now, stomp her at 0 damage, then grab her, then chain grab her to 80 ish, and ftilt her off the level. (or aerial/smash attack if you can, but they aren't garaunteed like f-tilt) if she flies off the level, occupy the ledge and ledge hop re grab, roll on to the level if you have less than 100 damage, then run back to get another grab on her. she'll have about 100 herself, from this you can dthrow to fair or bair. both of which should be enough to kill her, or continue the gay ledge gaurd.


if you can't chaingrab because of the level, you need to make sheik come to you, there's really no point in approaching her, she'll cut through anything you throw at her really.

as I said, bait her with random usmash from a distance, then jab her or downward ftilt her as she tries to dash in at you with a grab or dash attack. you can also grab her as she tries to dash attack.

really, it comes down to getting her off the ledge, and you not getting sucked in to her grabs. good luck executing this stuff
 

Devilution

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
353
Location
I ****ing love ****.
I know I can chaingrab to death...if I get off a stomp I'll immediately go into a CG but like...I can barely ever get off stomps because sheik will Shieldgrab...and I can barely ever get off a jab in between there.

and Sheik horribly outranges Ganon in Grab range so its hard to get off a normal one also.
 

KIngGerudo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
1,246
Location
Richmond,CA
sheik just thinks she's good. she talks all that mess but ganon makes sures shes walkin the track and the end of the day. ganon likes his sheiks just like his chicken, battered. so just yea. no FoD vs sheik. funky plats mess up the CG. and if you guys cant tell im bored then try harder to tell that im bored.
 

linkmastersword

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,587
Location
Herndon and Newport News, Virginia
I know I can chaingrab to death...if I get off a stomp I'll immediately go into a CG but like...I can barely ever get off stomps because sheik will Shieldgrab...and I can barely ever get off a jab in between there.

and Sheik horribly outranges Ganon in Grab range so its hard to get off a normal one also.
I hardly ever connect with a stomp if I just throw it out there, and the lag is way too much to get the jab of before she can sheild grab you. but there is a way to space it so she's out of range, or just try to land the stomp behind her.

you should try to space a short hop bair, while still in the air, jump and land the Dair behind her. its risky, but you might be able to mind game her in to it.

the only other thing I can say is that the edge roll to re grab is pretty effective and reliable, and much less technical then most other ganon edge gaurds on sheik. I only do ledge hop Uair if sheik has lots of damage and its a short level, other times I'll just ledge hop up to the stage to grab because the roll may take too long or she'll land right on the ledge so its easier to just hop up and grab.
 

Dr. Hyde

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
715
Location
Sarasota, FL
This match I like to F+air and reverse U+air a lot. since they are the longest and fastest moves to come out, U+air being the latter. Try using a mix of the three major ground combo starts, like do them in a row. D+tilt, F+B, Jab. OR reverse the order, Jab, F+B, D+tilt. as long as you can poke at their shield you will open them up for an F+air.
 

KIngGerudo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
1,246
Location
Richmond,CA
if he light shields, then ftilt him at max range or just wait it out. dont attack him and make him use up his shield. make him make the mistake of coming to you. i had a very similar problem with a sheik i played. he made me come to him and i was the one making the mistakes. as soon as you can turn those tables around. CG becomes way easy.
 

Dr. Hyde

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
715
Location
Sarasota, FL
If they light shield then I'm usually close enough to U+B out and grab them. It isn't something that I would do often but it works. And as far as Light shielding they would lose thier shield faster right? I mean the only time I see people light shield is EGing Marth and to avoid getting hit after someone dies.
 

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
Well, looks like your having alot of trouble on some basic stuff that can be easily avoided.
I know on yoshi's sheik can escape the CG due to the platforms, CG her to 40% then u throw her to fair or bair if she di's behind which leads to free edgeguard.NEVER WASTE A GRAB.
When you recover sometimes you attempt to fair her, shiek can get inside your fair pretty abdly so fastfall to the edge to get away from her edgeguard.
Learn how to do the waveland onto the ledge, this **** is probably one of ganons most usefull tricks.

When pressuring sheik on the edge, keep your space, dont make a wall of fairs right hext to the ledge, space it out so if she comes up and fairs it wont hit inside yours. Another option when sheik is on the ledge is rolling facing towards the stage right next to the ledge and sheikding. If sheik fair she will go through your sheild and you will grab her since shes on the other side, this catches alot of ppl by surpise.
Good stuff though, some good moments in that vid.
If you want an example heres a match of me vs. a sheik on YS also-http://youtube.com/watch?v=mMIMkumXLLo

Check it out, a guide I wrote a while back, it has some good advice.

Sheik-When your fighting sheik it's a grab game. Whoever gets the first grab should be walking away with the opponents stock. Getting a grab can be difficult because of sheiks advantage in speed and manueverability compared to yours. But nonetheless that just means your going to have to put that much more faking out and spacing than the sheiks part.

It's important to always keep yourself moving against her. Dashdance and keep her at bay with aerials, when your fair her shield remember to jab which prevents her getting that nasty grab. Sometimes sheiks get frustrated and attempt to rush in for the grab. Simply jab them as they try to grab and grab them after the jab. A trick I use is do a full jump stop then jump and stomp again. Most sheiks will run in to grab since they think that your going to the ground after the first stomp, but BAM! the ***** gets stomped. Don't waste your stomps at low percents, you can choose to either combo her or grab her out of the knockback(I prefer this).

Out of your grab you can CG sheik to around 85% then which it is best to finish off with a f-smash if they DI forwards, u-smash if up, and f-smash if they di back. ALWAYS finish sheik, you want to dispose of the ***** as quickly as possible because if she gets back to the stage and gets that grab on you thats a stock. On platform levels you can do as you choose before sheik techs on the platform, some options are waveland(what I do) and grab sheik as the techs, or fair/uair techase her from below. Slow full jump and double jumps are great for making sheik approach. To do this full jump or double jump and DO NOT fast fall, this makes the opponent nervous when your above them for such a long time, instead of fairing as they shield just run up and grab! Trust me it works somehow!

Edgeguarding sheik can be a pain, if she gets close enough and she hasnt up-b'd jump out there and bair/uair her. Otherwise grab the ledge and let her get on the stage , waveland off the edge and do as you please because of her lag time.
 

Dr. Hyde

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
715
Location
Sarasota, FL
Try not to grab when she is doing a D+tilt. It's not gonna get her sadly and that leads to a nasty combo. But yeah listen to Linguini
 

linkmastersword

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,587
Location
Herndon and Newport News, Virginia
yeah, you need to overload sheik with interupt moves, i.e. jabs, tilts, even dash attacks. the traditional air game will get you killed, I'm pretty sure all sheik has to do is Ftilt ur aerial approach and she takes priority.

and yeah, just wave land more in general, I think that will help. like fake and aerial to wave land backwards, just so you can make sheik choose an option for you to punish.
 
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