Sheik Stage Discussion

[_Tree]

Note: This thread was originally created and run by @ saviorslegacy . Most things written here are his words, not mine. Since he'll be fighting sharks for the next year, I thought I'd take over and update this thread. This is also why I'll be quoting myself in the following overviews of each stage. (Also sorry if I'm a scrublord at running a thread. First time.)

Yo! Sheik stage discussion! Post your thoughts on each viable stage, as well as how well Sheik performs on each one and where she should take certain characters. While not every stage here is a legal pick, it is possible that they become a part of the rule-set under some tournament organizers, so we might as well discuss them if the possibility of playing on them is there, no matter how small.
We are only discussing stages that are being considered as Neutral or Counter Pick stages. No point in bringing up stages that may never see competitive play.

Useful Links
The official stage discussion can be found here: http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/
Stage lists for both 3DS and Wii U can be found here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Stage
The official Apex rules for stages can be found here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74563582/Apex/Apex2015_Rulebook.pdf

Neutral

Final Destination

Final Destination is for the most part a neutral playing field. The only clear advantage here is there are no platforms to save people from Needles. Allowing Sheik to force an approach.

With the addition of Burst Grenade we have another projectile to zone and camp with, giving us an advantage against a lot of the cast (or at least making us neutral) when playing on FD, as they won't have platforms to work around them. We can cross the stage easily due to our high movement speed, and the walls of the stage allow for quite a few wall-cling and bounce-off points. The only significant disadvantage is that when facing characters with superior zoning ability like Villager, they will have a greater advantage, so avoid this stage when matched up against them. Obviously, when going for Omega stages try and aim for ones that have walled sides, as that will increase our survivability and bouncing fish options (I recommend Gerudo valley for the sweet music).

I will advocate for Omega stages with walls as much as I can. The wall cling/wall jump option is simply so strong to me. Bouncing Fish is an option DIRECTLY out of wall cling, plus the obvious recovery boost we get from wall jumping. But more so than that, it ups our edgeguarding game. Smash 4 benefits those who recover low. The walls limit our opponents' recovery options, and it allows us to stage spike at any point in their recovery. Instead of kicking them into the one little spot on, say, SV, we have a whole wall to bash them against.

TL;DR:
Good in some MUs, average-to-bad in others

Advantages:
FD is wide and flat, meaning that a single Fair string can do a lot of damage. It also means that you can force approaches with needles, because there aren't platforms for people to hide on.
Another thing that the lack of platforms helps with is covering landing options; opponents have very limited landing options here, so you can cover them well.

Disadvantages:
Landing yourself can be difficult though; sort of the inverse of Battlefield. Bouncing Fish and Sheik's aerial mobility helps here a lot, but some characters are fast enough to follow you anyways. Certain characters will also outcamp you and force you to approach here, without the assistance of platform cover.

Other Notes:

• Some Omegas have walls all the way down which can aid our (or other's) recoveries. Some stages (such as Kalos League) have walls which can be BF'd off of, but not wall clung/jumped from.
• Blast Zones are average size here as well.

Battlefield

The platforms here are Sheik's bread and butter. Sheik can easily combo off of platforms, but at the same time they hurt her Needle game because Sheik needs to be on the ground to throw her needles straight. That being said her aerials are incredibly fast and with good priority. This means you can out class most characters on the platforms. Sheik's USmash will also tipper hit anyone standing above her on the two lower platforms.

This stage is good because, as you said, Sheik has good aerials and maneuverability, allowing her to basically own the platform part of the stage. This is also a good place to take zoning characters, as the platforms will allow for alternative approaches. Like FD, this stage has good spots for wall-clinging and bouncing-off, so they'll help with survival and our edge-guarding game.

Anyway, I personally prefer Battlefield as a starter for Sheik, as we can get nice Up-smash kills on the platforms and have better ledge shenanigans. Also, the top platform makes U-air juggelijg and hitting easier, where as Smashvilles moving platform tends to work against this. However, WiiU BF now has some straight parts below it, so you really need to watch out when recovering.

TL;DR:
Really good

Advantages:
Sheik has really fast aerials, so platform pressure is pretty easy. The hitbox of Fair (and to a lesser extent Bair) also allow Sheik to pressure platforms rather safely, which is handy. Usmash will also hit opponents standing on either of the 2 lower platforms, and will always tipper. You can get kills by Nairing someone onto the platform and then techchasing with Usmash, which is also handy.
The other great thing about this stage is that it allows Sheik more options to escape juggles (though significantly less now that you can't ledge-cancel BF; why ), which is something that she normally has (small) issues with.

Disadvantages:
As stated earlier, Sheik's needles have to be thrown from the ground to go straight, so you can't hit people on platforms easily with them. This means your opponent can force an approach if they're on a platform... but them being on a platform is a disadvantageous position, so that's mitigated some.

Other Notes:

• The underside of the stage is asymmetrical; Sheik can Bouncing Fish off of the architecture on the right side of the stage to recover.
• Blast Zones are average size.

Smashville - WiiU

Smashville: Everyone loves this stage. I don't know one person that doesn't. Thankfully it's a decent stage for Sheik as well. Our mobility allows us to use the platform to its fullest combo potential, as well allowing us to get around zoners with a lot of stage control (although they can use it against us, so be careful). The sides of the stage aren't as abusable as something like Battlefield or FD, but it's still possible to bounce off them. Sheik has issues killing sometimes, so a filthy little tactic that could be used is grabbing the opponent on the platform when it's near the side blast zones and throwing into them. Bouncing fish helps us secure this as well. And hey, us Sheik players have something on this stage (and Town and City) that no one else does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utOGSVKmgCs&feature=youtu.be
Overall, a good stage. Learn it, love it. Take anyone here.

TL;DR:
This stage is absolutely amazing for Sheik.

Advantages:
It's wide enough that you can play defensive/needle camp when needed, while also being small enough that people can't easily escape you if they're trying to camp. It's long enough that you can Fair string pretty well across it, but easily the best thing about this stage is that if you catch someone in a Fair string while the platform is off the stage, you can 0-death them incredibly easily by just carrying them up to the platform and off from there.
Bonus advantage:
for some reason everyone likes going here because it's the 'most neutral stage'. It isn't at all, but luckily for us it's one of Sheik's best stages, and people like taking us there.

Disadvantages:
The Downsides to this stage are small things like not being able to BF into the stage to recover (unlike Siege and some Omegas, for example), but nothing really major.

Other notes:

• You can BF onto a balloon and bounce off of it, either to cover options or escape (or just look flashy, of course).
• Blast Zones are average size.

Yoshi's Island - 3DS

Yoshi's Island can propose some problems for Sheik. The slopes allow a large majority of the cast to crouch under her Needles and the large platform in the middle some times tilts to high to use it to approach campy characters. That being said you can use the walls to wall jump and bounce off of with Bouncing Fish. This greatly increases you off stage game.

Yoshi's Island: This stage is alright. I think the little grooves in the stage that allow for opponents to dodge needles is offset by the fact that the stage is walled. Our crouch is pretty low, so we can actually use the grooves to our advantage when facing characters with linear projectiles. It should be noted that the platform gives characters that are strong-on-the-ground-but-weak-in-the-air a large field of extra elevation, so avoid this stage when facing someone like Little Mac.

Your needle game is hindered by the slopes and large platform allowing your opponent more options in the neutral game. I avoid it most of the time. (also another not to take little mac to because of life saving ghosts and large middle platform as stated above).

Counter Picks

Castle Siege - WiiU

Castle Siege: The First form of this stage is ok. Platforms are a pretty standard fair, and the deep walls allow us more recovery options, as well edge guarding tools. The second form's statues block our needles...but allow us to bounce around a bit, which I think is a worthy trade. Watch out for the walk-offs, but don't be afraid to use them yourself. The final form is akin to a tilting FD. Nothing special, but our needles may get blocked. The transitions on this stage I feel are a bit more awkward than others, so use your mobility to capitalise on that and put your opponent into a poor position while the stage transitions, possibly gaining you a quick kill. This stage works well as a counter-pick to most characters.

TL;DR:
Matchup-dependant, but good. (Bonus: Doesn't seem to be a stage Diddy likes!)

Advantages:
Temporary (45sec) walkoff in the form of the 2nd transformation (as well as during the transitions); Fair strings, you know the drill by now.
Platforms allow us to mix up landing options a ton, and with customs we can still needle camp if we wish on this transformation.
Bouncing Fish can be bounced off the wall on the 1st (and 3rd...?) transformations for extra recovery distance.
Slight dips(pt1)/tilts(pt3) let us crouch and dodge more things than normal, if you're mindful of your positioning.

Disadvantages:
Transformations can save gimped opponents.
First transformation is also a bit small, and if you want to avoid your opponent to catch your breath it's not the best spot to do so.
Hitting statues in the 2nd area incurs hitlag, making your moves less safe. This can also be an advantage by extending the length of time your hitbox is active, but Sheik's moves aren't particularly benefitted by this (as opposed to, say, Ganon or Ike's giant, powerful hits).

Other Notes:

• Piercing needles go through the statues, allowing us to camp still.
• Bouncing Fish will bounce off the statues, letting us set up some cheesy/flashy kills if that's your thing

Delfino Plaza - WiiU

Delfino: Almost exactly the same as Skyloft. Platforms are a cinch to traverse, and the multiple walls that come in are great for bouncing fish. Generally, don't tango with many characters in the water. While we do have a spike, it's very hard to utilise. Often, opponents will have better spikes at there disposal, gaining a greater advantage in the water.

TL;DR:
Solid, but no huge plusses or minuses.

Advantages:
This, like the other 'travelling' stages, seems to be pretty solid but average for us. We have some neat things here, but generally the stage doesn't directly assist nor hinder Sheik.
Low ceiling during transitions lets us kill earlier with some of our easier kill setups (Dthrow->Uair), and Sheik's generally elusive enough to avoid getting grabbed during the transitions if played right.

Disadvantages:
Low ceiling during transitions is more useful to some other characters (Diddy, for example) than us.
Water is far more useful to characters with stronger spikes than us.

Other Notes:

• When I say the blast zones get closer during transitions, I mean by a lot. They seem to shrink when approaching a new area (or leaving it?), then grow to the transformation's size.

Duck Hunt - WiiU

Duck hunt: I ask for Ghirahim, Midna, Zant, Groose...yet we got a dog and this stage. The tree platforms give us extra elevation and therefore more answers to an opponent trying to get back. The tufts of grass that obscure parts of the stage don't really benefit us, but character's like Villager can hide their saplings there, so don't take characters that rely on setups here. (I don't actually remember if we can bounce off the ducks here. If we can that's quite an advantage, as they cover a wide area of options.)

TL;DR:
An alright stage, that I hear a lot of talk about being good. Maybe it is; I personally dislike it in general though.

Advantages:
It's basically FD but with a few additions. The tree on the left allows you to get super early kills if you can trap people there (Dthrow->Uair carrying people into the blast zone is great), and is also a solid camping position. Don't be afraid to retreat there and charge needles... against most people. Some will absolutely kill you for going up there.
The ducks can be Bouncing Fished off of to punish things (for example: BF through an Air Dodge, bounce back and hit them), to move around, and to mix up landings as well. This only works when the sky is blue though; ducks can't be interacted with while the sky is red.


Disadvantages:
Pretty similar to FD, but opponents also have ways around needle camping. The you have to be mindful of the dog too, because he can break your strings or push you into a punish if you're not paying attention. (Pay attention and it happens to your opponents, though!)

Other Notes:

• It's by no means even close to guaranteed, but if you can position the dog under you while you get a grab, Dthrow to Usmash can be hilarious. (Don't actually go for this in a real match, but if it happens link me to the video!)
• This is a 2D stage (similar to Flat Zone X and a few others; if you turn the camera you'll notice that the fighters are actually 2D rather than 3D models). This changes only a few things, but some of them are important. Basically, on most stages certain hitboxes are too deep into the Z axis to actually land (or some dodges avoid moves like this; Dedede's Brawl spotdodge is the most notable), such as Greninja's Fsmash (facing right only...?) and some of DK's moves. This flattens those as well, so certain moves will hit when they wouldn't on other stages.
• If you're hidden behind the patch of grass that pops up, it's difficult to see if you throw needles/grenades

Halberd - WiiU

Halberd: I hope you like gourmet race. The standard form of this stage is similar to Smashville but without a moving platform. Sharking is possible here, so come up with an U-air or Vanish. In the beginning of this it's possible to kill the opponent straight up in they aren't able to stay on the platform, so use all your tools to try and score that. The second form of this stage's sides dip in an odd way, but they can still be bounced off of. The hazards here are pretty easily avoided (especially the cannon ball). If the laser focuses me, what I like to do is throw the opponent off the stage and then lock the laser around the edge area. This limits their return options.

TL;DR:
Generally more helpful to opponents than us, but not necessarily a bad stage for Sheik.

Advantages:
Low ceiling combined with a platform at tipper Usmash height lets us get early kills, and Dthrow/Dtilt/Ftilt->Uair works obscenely well here.
Stage control seems slightly more advantageous here than most places, due to the dip in the middle of the stage and the way the platform is designed. Sheik is great at taking stage control, so this is helpful.

Disadvantages:
Other characters often get more from this stage than we do, such as Diddy/ZSS/other vertically-oriented killers and those who can shark under the stage (Jiggs/MK/etc). We of course die much earlier off the top as well as Sheik is rather light.

Other Notes:

• If you have the Laser targeting you, get your opponent offstage and target the laser at the ledge. Either your opponent dies, or you get easy pickings if they manage to get over it (this works for any character, of course)
• Don't be in the Hangar as the flying part takes off at the start of the match, you will die instantly
• You CAN SDI out of the laser, so do it

Kongo Jungle 64 - WiiU

Kongo jungle 64: This stage is pretty versatile. Having trouble with zoners? Take 'em here. Because of the indent in the stage and our very low crouch we are able to sneak under their barrage. The two high platforms allow us more edge guarding options, as we can jump on and use them if the opponent decides to recover high. Because of the nature of the stage our mobility allows us to shark opponents. The barrel allows us more recovery options, but does the same for the opponent, hindering our gimp game. I wouldn't take Little Mac here, but It seems good for Mega man and the like.

TL;DR:
Generally not that great; HUGE blast zones.

Advantages:
The main advantage that matters here is that Sheik has an amazing recovery, so as long as you aren't sent through the blast line you're probably coming back. If you're up against someone with a poor recovery (or someone you know you can gimp) this is a solid choice because you'll survive longer without your opponent doing so.
Crouching in the center of the stage is also hilariously safe most of the time, which is neat.

Disadvantages:
You can go through the ledge with your teleport (if you try to go to the ledge horizontally from too close), which is rather aggravating. If you're worried, just recover onto the stage.
Opponents can survive when they shouldn't thanks to the barrel.

Other Notes:

• Blast zones here are HUGE (Horizontally and vertically)
• Characters shot from the barrel are invincible (and a hitbox) until they're at about the height of the top platforms (and can tech on said platforms as well)
• When shot from the cannon, characters will regain their jumps.
• Diddy's Uair takes a while to kill here, and has a (relatively...) gimpable recovery. If you're super confident in gimping Diddys, this becomes an amazing stage.

Lylat Cruise - WiiU

Lylat cruise: I don't mind this stage, but I know some people hate it. Thankfully this stage caters to us more often than not. The tilting will block our needles, but affects other character's projectiles more. The edges here are tricky. Basically Brawl's equivalent of the Melee battlefield edges, it's pretty easy to get snagged underneath them and SD, so be careful when getting back or styling. I primarily use this stage to counter keep-away stuff, as the tilting and platforms provide many ways to get around a wall of gyroids and charge shots.

TL;DR:
Another great stage for Sheik

Advantages:
Platforms are all at the correct height to always hit tipper Usmash, which is nice. They're also at the right height to continue fair strings on, and pressure safely. Also You can abuse Sheik's crouch along with this stage's tilting to dodge even more things than normal. Speaking of the tilting, this stage doesn't really screw with Sheik's recovery much (practice recovering from under the stage for like 5min and you'll see what I mean), but it definitely does screw with certain other characters' recoveries.
Once again, the platforms let you mix up your landing options (see Disadvantages as well, though). On the other hand, while opponents can cover landing options fairly well here, Sheik is a master of it.

Disadvantages:
With the platforms all being low to the ground quick opponents can simply shark you safely from underneath; this is arguably worse than not having them in some MUs. This works both ways though, and Sheik is great at covering landings.
The tilting makes needles (and certain other moves, at times) miss or far less useful in general.
If you haven't practiced your recovery here, it can screw you up and cost you a stock.

Other Notes:

• Average blast zones
• Omega Lylat has equally screwy ledges, and Sheik still isn't bothered by it. Opponents often are, though.
• There is a glitch on this stage: As the stage tilts, certain attacks that move the fighters can put the fighter in the air temporarily (happens at the ledges & engines only) which cancels the current action.
  • You can use this to your advantage if you know it's coming, which is neat.

Town and City - WiiU

Town and City: Most of what I have to say about this stage is largely similar to Smashville. The main difference is the stage's platforms. The triple platforms are seldom used due to their height, and as such don't affect our game too much. The two platforms are able to be used effectively for elevated combos, so chuck characters up there with an up throw if they can't handle unstable ground. As I've said before our mobility allows the platforms to be abused pretty well, and the balloons on the stage belong to us. Sorry for the lack of elaboration. This stage is simple. Take character's like Robin and Little Mac here.

TL;DR:
One of my personal favorite stages. Good in a lot of matchups, but bad in a lot as well (low ceiling).

Advantages:
Wide and Flat, which has a lot of the advantages of FD. Also has (high) platforms which lets us mix up our landings/recoveries, and they're pressurable like on BF (you just have to full-hop most of the time too). The low ceiling also allows our Uair and Usmash to kill earlier (which is awesome), but some other characters get more out of this than we do. Also, on the "Smashville" portion (the one with 2 low platforms), you can get the Fair strings to death like on SV.

Disadvantages:
Low ceiling makes us die even earlier against some characters. Platforms also allow an escape from needle camping.

Other Notes:

• Horizontal Blast Zones are average distance, but the ceiling is low (2nd lowest out of all the legals in this list, only after Halberd)
• Platforms will kill players on them as they fly off.

Pilotwings - WiiU

Pilot Wings: Basically a combination of FD and Lylat. The tilting will affect our needles, but thankfully we aren't reliant on them. Other zoning characters will suffer here however, so take them here. We can wall-jump and bounce off the main engine, so we can use that for positioning and different setups. Generally, our recovery game is pretty good, so if we're caught in a bad situation off-stage because of the tilting we can make it back. Characters like Falcon are not so fortunate however. Due to our fantastic gimp game, take characters like him here for a great advantage.

Wuhu island - WiiU

Wuhu island: The transformations on this stage are mostly good for us. The fencing arena and jet-ski finish line both have walls to use liberally, and the bridge area allows us to shark opponents, especially if they can't act in kind. The boat...is weird. There's a thing that if a character has a specific type of down-throw they can use it to make you hit the bottom of the ship, even while on top of it, killing you instantly. I'm not sure if Sheik can do the same. Almost solely because of that I'd recommend not taking characters like Ness here. Apart from that though this sage is inoffensive. Take any characters here similarly to Skyloft.

TL;DR:
Also seems pretty average

Advantages:
Traveling transformations (the surfboard-like flying things) are generally wide and flat (good for Fair strings) and have low platforms (good for safe pressure).
There are some temporary walkoffs, which are also good for Fair string low% kills.
Most transformations are either easy to fight on (and generally FD-like) or advantageous to camp with needles (or grenades, on some occasions)

Disadvantages:
Completely anecdotal, but people seem to live a while here. I think the blast zones may be a bit larger than normal? Not sure though.
Water areas are much better for characters with decent/strong spikes than they are for us.

Other Notes:

• I don't believe the boat glitch works on Sheik with any character, so you shouldn't have to worry about that
• Watch out for the red Balloon on the cliff area, it has strong knockback. Also watch out for the takeoff at the end of that transition, it's incredibly fast for some reason and will kill people still on the cliff.

Skyloft - WiiU

Skyloft: This stage is very good for us. Getting around the shifting platforms is no problem, and the fact that many of the transformations have a multitude of walls means we can harass the opponent with bouncing fish from nearly any angle. Recovering is also easier because of that and our ability to wall jump. Avoid the water on one the transformations, unless you can get the opponent in there and use it to your advantage with things such as a footstool. Pretty much the same deal as Delfino, so take characters that have bad mobility or air game here.

TL;DR:
Honestly not sure; it doesn't seem bad, though? Seems to not do much or hurt much.

Advantages:
Temporary walkoffs give you the ability to kill at ludicrously low percents with simple Fair strings.
Certain traveling section arrangements let you pressure opponents on platforms really well, while also being wide and flat for more Fair strings and needles.

Disadvantages:
Not sure; some areas the blast zones seem kind of far, but I may be wrong about this.

Other Notes:

• I play here a decent amount, and it never seems particularly amazing nor particularly awful.

Arena Ferox - 3DS

This stage starts out exactly like Final Destination but then transform into several different stages. There are no hazards at this stage. The stage does not have a set transforming pattern and will reset to the FD form between each spawn. I believe this stage to be good for Sheik since she can adapt to the changing environment very easily. The only transformation that is actually bad for her is the two statues.

This stage is weird, but ok. Ceilings are always a big no-no, but I think they're fine here due to being temporary, preventing a permanent cave-of-life. It looks like the multiple variations could make things interesting. We benefit a lot from this stage, as we make traverse it easily due to being nimble, and the various walls allows for damage racking with F-tilt, jab combo and opens up more bounce-off points. I think, at least at the beginning of this game's lifespan, that this stage should definitely be considered for being a counter-pick.

-Two Statues

These statues can be destroyed and block projectiles. This will hurt Sheik's Needle game. You can attack the statues with bouncing fish to bounce off of them. This can also hurt Sheik since she will some times not go through the statue and will instead attack it. The statues also have platforms that will benefit Sheik.

-Platforms with a Ceiling

The ceiling will allow Sheik to combo very efficiently, but be aware that you aren't the only one. You can also wall jump or Bouncing Fish off of the platforms that are solid.

-Hanging Platforms

The center post is solid and the hanging platforms can be damaged allowing you to Bouncing Fish off of them. The platforms will add to Sheiks game combo game.

-Rotating Platforms

The center platform is solid and thus has a ceiling. Same as before, this will add to your combo game, but will also help you opponent.

Reset Bomb Forest - 3DS

This stage starts out as the picture above shows it and then transforms. In between the transformation a flat walk of stage is summoned. The walls on the stage add to Sheik's off stage game. The top platform can allow for an early kill using Uair. I personally dislike this stage. It feel very awkward to play on.

I don't like this stage. It becomes more unwieldy to play on as time goes on, with the second phase lacking a main fighting platform, and the transition having walk-offs. The final form has lots of points for us to bounce off of, but the addition of a hazard really pushes me away from this stage. While I think we would have a bit of an advantage on this stage when compared to a lot of characters, I think for the sake of fairness this stage should be avoided.

-Reset Bomb Walk Off Stage

At this stage you have several seconds to combo someone to the side and get an early kill. Be aware of the same thing happening to you.

-Aftermath

*this was unfortunetly, the only good picture I could find/was willing to look for ATM*
At this part of the stage there will be a monster that will go across the bottom. He does 12% and has quite a bit of knock back. The entire top left section can be destroyed and is solid. It has very little health though.

Tortimer Island - 3DS

I do not like this stage at all. The items dropped is not my issue here. My issue is that you cannot grab the far left ledge. It also has a very high ceiling which means no Uair killing or USmash killing at normal kill percents. Not being able to see your character while under water makes me like this stage even less. There is also a stage hazard in the form of a shark that appears off to the right periodically. This is possibly a counter pick against Sheik.

This stage feels a little large. It's also weird in the fact that edge-guarding is basically removed due to the removal of visibility under the water. This is bad for us in a big way, as we excel at edge-guarding, removing one of our main ways of dispatching opponents. This stage also has random health pick-ups, which is definitely not good, often undoing a lot of the work a player has done throughout the match. I would say no to this stage as a counter-pick.

Prism Tower - 3DS

A very good counter pick for Sheik to use. As others have pointed out it forces people into the air during most transitions. This would be a good counter pick against characters that need to control the ground or that are very campy.

This stage is actually pretty good for us. The dynamics of the stage pose no problem, due to our great speed and maneuverability. We can combo well between platforms because of our great aerials too. This is a great place to take characters that shun any kind of air-combat, as they are basically forced to take to the skies during the stage's transformations. It's also great for fighting zoners, as there many platforms for us to use to approach with. I've heard a bit of debate about the use of this stage due to how much it disadvantages some characters and benefits others, but if made legal this is definitely a solid choice.

I very much like this stage. I take people here when Battlefield is banned. Sheik can adapt quite well to the changes in platform and here recovery feels endless sometimes with all of her tools. The walk off is the only thing holding this back but seeing how it is only one of the transformations in a set order we see less of it and it's super short

Brinstar - 3DS

Brinstar is by far my favorite counter pick for Sheik right now. The top platform allows you to get an early kill with f-tilt> Uair. You can destroy the center with a single grenade. Bouncing Fish will bounce off of the membranes allowing you to move around quite efficiently. I will have to upload a video in the future showing this. The only downside to Brinstar is that there are no walls to jump off of.

If this stage lacked a hazard it would be another solid choice. We can work around the platforms for combos, and bouncing off membranes is something we can almost exclusively take advantage of. But alas, the lava does seem keen to show it's face here every so often, which is what pushes me away from advocating this stage's use. Hazards suck, straight up. I don't want any element of chance in my competitive games, and even if both players agreed to lame-it-out, this would be boring to watch and play, drawing out matches further than they currently are.

DLC Stages

Miiverse

Miiverse is BF but with one important thing: The platforms are wider. This mostly doesn't matter, but you can hit tipper usmash if you're standing on the edge of the centre platforms and the target is standing above you on the top platform.

This probably makes it better than BF for Sheik.

Dream land 64

Tipper usmash connects same way as it does for BF in Dream land. I really like that stage, the lower ceiling means we can get an easier time getting uair kills.

Disclaimer-
There are many other possible stages that can be used as counter picks, but I think this is enough for now. It seems like these are what is up in the air at the moment.

I need everyone to give me their input on each stage. Especially the counter pick stages.
Feel free to comment on any of the stages above if not all of them. I am not going to force everyone to discuss one stage. I assume there will be conflicting views on some of the stages, that is debate enough.

For the time being my own personal opinion of each stage will be listed. Challenge my opinion and give me yours.

 

[_Tree]

Final Destination: With the addition of Burst Grenade we have another projectile to zone and camp with, giving us an advantage against a lot of the cast (or at least making us neutral) when playing on FD, as they won't have platforms to work around them. We can cross the stage easily due to our high movement speed, and the walls of the stage allow for quite a few wall-cling and bounce-off points. The only significant disadvantage is that when facing characters with superior zoning ability like Villager, they will have a greater advantage, so avoid this stage when matched up against them. Obviously, when going for Omega stages try and aim for ones that have walled sides, as that will increase our survivability and bouncing fish options (I recommend Gerudo valley for the sweet music).

Battlefield: This stage is good because, as you said, Sheik has good aerials and maneuverability, allowing her to basically own the platform part of the stage. This is also a good place to take zoning characters, as the platforms will allow for alternative approaches. Like FD, this stage has good spots for wall-clinging and bouncing-off, so they'll help with survival and our edge-guarding game.

Yoshi's Island: This stage is alright. I think the little grooves in the stage that allow for opponents to dodge needles is offset by the fact that the stage is walled. Our crouch is pretty low, so we can actually use the grooves to our advantage when facing characters with linear projectiles. It should be noted that the platform gives characters that are strong-on-the-ground-but-weak-in-the-air a large field of extra elevation, so avoid this stage when facing someone like Little Mac.

Arena Ferox: This stage is weird, but ok. Ceilings are always a big no-no, but I think they're fine here due to being temporary, preventing a permanent cave-of-life. It looks like the multiple variations could make things interesting. We benefit a lot from this stage, as we make traverse it easily due to being nimble, and the various walls allows for damage racking with F-tilt, jab combo and opens up more bounce-off points. I think, at least at the beginning of this game's lifespan, that this stage should definitely be considered for being a counter-pick.

Reset-bomb forest: I don't like this stage. It becomes more unwieldy to play on as time goes on, with the second phase lacking a main fighting platform, and the transition having walk-offs. The final form has lots of points for us to bounce off of, but the addition of a hazard really pushes me away from this stage. While I think we would have a bit of an advantage on this stage when compared to a lot of characters, I think for the sake of fairness this stage should be avoided.

Tortimer island: This stage feels a little large. It's also weird in the fact that edge-guarding is basically removed due to the removal of visibility under the water. This is bad for us in a big way, as we excel at edge-guarding, removing one of our main ways of dispatching opponents. This stage also has random health pick-ups, which is definitely not good, often undoing a lot of the work a player has done throughout the match. I would say no to this stage as a counter-pick.

Prism tower: This stage is actually pretty good for us. The dynamics of the stage pose no problem, due to our great speed and maneuverability. We can combo well between platforms because of our great aerials too. This is a great place to take characters that shun any kind of air-combat, as they are basically forced to take to the skies during the stage's transformations. It's also great for fighting zoners, as there many platforms for us to use to approach with. I've heard a bit of debate about the use of this stage due to how much it disadvantages some characters and benefits others, but if made legal this is definitely a solid choice.

Brinstar: If this stage lacked a hazard it would be another solid choice. We can work around the platforms for combos, and bouncing off membranes is something we can almost exclusively take advantage of. But alas, the lava does seem keen to show it's face here every so often, which is what pushes me away from advocating this stage's use. Hazards suck, straight up. I don't want any element of chance in my competitive games, and even if both players agreed to lame-it-out, this would be boring to watch and play, drawing out matches further than they currently are.

 

[Lord P Wallington]

FD shiek is good for needlespam, but battlefield is good for arial combos

 

[Wasserwipf]

I'll just trhow this randomly in... Raindbow road (or cruise? i dunno). Once you figured how the stage works, it's gold. Especially if your opponent doesn't know how it works. The transformations are so weird that they allow for really crazy combos and gimps. Also, Sheik has the tools to kick you opponent into the cars.

 

[Anuran]

Battlefield - Arguably Sm4sh sheik's best stage. She excels at aerial fighting and platform maneuvering. I pretty much take people here if they leave it open.

FD(omega forms) - While I personally do not like this stage that much as a project M player I understand that objectively sheik is quite strong here. The needle game is strong with this one. Obviously do not take little mac here.

Yoshi's island - Not great, not awful. Your needle game is hindered by the slopes and large platform allowing your opponent more options in the neutral game. I avoid it most of the time. (also another not to take little mac to because of life saving ghosts and large middle platform as stated above)

Prism tower - I very much like this stage. I take people here when Battlefield is banned. Sheik can adapt quite well to the changes in platform and here recovery feels endless sometimes with all of her tools. The walk off is the only thing holding this back but seeing how it is only one of the transformations in a set order we see less of it and it's super short.

Arena Ferox - Meh, I hate the statue transformation but other than that its alright. Basically pokemon stadium sm4sh 4 edition. *lots of things to BF off of*

I do not agree that Reset bomb forest, Tortimer island, or Brinstar should be allowed in competitive play for the obvious reason that these stages allow for a player to play to a individual stage gimmick (hazard, random health, and hazard respectively).

 

[saviorslegacy]

The best stages for Sheik are definitely FD and Battlefield. With the addition of Burst Grenade we have another projectile to zone and camp with, giving us an advantage against a lot of the cast (or at least making us neutral) when playing on FD. Battlefield is good because, as you said, Sheik has good aerials and maneuverability, allowing her to basically own that part of the stage. Both stages also have good points for us to wall-cling and bouncing fish into. Obviously, when going for Omega stages try and aim for ones that have walled sides, as that will increase our survivability and bouncing fish options (I recommend Gerudo valley for the sweet music).

Yoshi's is alright. I think the little grooves in the stage that allow for opponents to dodge needles is offset by the fact that the stage is walled. It should be noted that the platform gives characters that are strong on the ground but weak in the air a large field of extra elevation, so avoid this stage when facing someone like Little Mac.

Arena Ferox is weird, but ok. Ceilings are always a big no-no, but I think they're fine here due to being temporary, preventing a permanent cave-of-life. It looks like the multiple variations could make things interesting. I think, at least at the beginning of this game's lifespan, that this stage should definitely be considered for being a counter-pick.

The final two though...I can't agree on. First off, the reset bomb forest becomes more unwieldy to play on as time goes on, with the second phase lacking a main fighting platform, and the transition having walk-offs. The biggest factor though is that both stages have hazards. I very much hate competitive games that have elements that boil down to chance, and Smash is no exception to that rule. Hazards severely impact on the desire for matches to be decided on player skill alone, with even a small amount of percentage tacked on by a hazard potentially meaning life-or-death for a player later on. Even if both players agreed to lame it out once a hazard arrives in order to avoid being damaged by it, this would extend the length of matches by a great deal, dragging matches out way too much. I know the 3DS version is severely lacking in viable stages, but I really don't think these should be considered as counter-picks.

Just my opinion though.

I'll just trhow this randomly in... Raindbow road (or cruise? i dunno). Once you figured how the stage works, it's gold. Especially if your opponent doesn't know how it works. The transformations are so weird that they allow for really crazy combos and gimps. Also, Sheik has the tools to kick you opponent into the cars.

I'm with tree in that battlefield and FD are solid for sheik (though I personally prefer battle field and pretty much always take it when it is left open.) Brinstar and reset forest are not to be considered in my opinion hazards and the bottom blast zone inhibitor are too much. Ferox is pushing it but i'm okay with it kinda meh for sheik because it tampers with projectiles, same goes to yoshi's. Boy do I hate those statues and hills. I'm very curious as to why you didn't consider Prism tower. Its a really solid stage with no hazards and only 1 questionable transformation (a walk off) that only stays for a few seconds for a few seconds.

Of the viable stages in my opinion I would rate them this and would encourage people to use the same format
Key 1=worst, 5 = best

5 - Battlefield
4 - FD, Prism tower
3 - Yoshi's, Ferox

I apologize for not being clear earlier. I only listed the stages that are currently being discussed here in the official stage analysis and discussion thread. http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/
The only ones I have not listed yet are Tortimer Island and Prism Tower. Mainly because I haven't played them enough to get an initial impression. I will go ahead and add them though. Please give me your impression of them.

Also, when replying please refer to a single stage instead of comparing 2 back and forth. That was I can quote your information into the OP.

 

[_Tree]

Ok, fixed my response. Added opinions on Tortimer island and Prism tower, as well as separated my responses for every other stage.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Ok, fixed my response. Added opinions on Tortimer island and Prism tower, as well as separated my responses for every other stage.

You good sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

I actually disagree with YI thought.
Having walls does not off set the fact that a lot of the cast can duck under our needles. Needles > walls
Sure, we can do the same thing back to other characters, but for the most part Needles > other projectiles.

I also disagree with your view on stage hazards. Personally, my favorite counter pick in Brawl was Norfair (before it got banned.
In stages like Brinstar, survival goes to the most nimble and the fastest; we are both in every regard.

 

[Anuran]

ughhh I went back and edited mine all out following tree's lead but my computer lost internet and all my work was for nothing :/

 

[_Tree]

In stages like Brinstar, survival goes to the most nimble and the fastest; we are both in every regard.

This is kind of why I wouldn't advocate the stage. Other less nimble characters would be more likely to be hit by the lava, creating an unfair disadvantage for those unequipped to deal with a large stage hazard, even if they're able to deal with single opponents on an even battleground. I don't think the ability to deal with stage hazards should be a necessity when initiating a 1v1, hence my decision to go against this stage.

Sure the stage might be good for us, because we are very able to get away from the hazard quickly, but it can be unfair for others. So select it if it's legal I guess, but I don't think we should complain if it's banned.

 

[saviorslegacy]

This is kind of why I wouldn't advocate the stage. Other less nimble characters would be more likely to be hit by the lava, creating an unfair disadvantage for those unequipped to deal with a large stage hazard, even if they're able to deal with single opponents on an even battleground. I don't think the ability to deal with stage hazards should be a necessity when initiating a 1v1, hence my decision to go against this stage.

Sure the stage might be good for us, because we are very able to get away from the hazard quickly, but it can be unfair for others. So select it if it's legal I guess, but I don't think we should complain if it's banned.

That's why it is a counter pick.
Lets say something like this happens......

Little Mac vs Sheik @ FD
Little Mac wins and is 1 - 0

Sheik can now choose a counter pick stage. Sheik goes Brinstar to help her chances at winning and putting Little Mac at a clear disadvantage.
Sheik wins and is 1 - 1.

Little Mac can now counter pick to take Sheik where ever he wants to take her. ie Yoshi's Island


You see, in the end it balances out. A MK in Brawl would not hesitate to take an Ice Climbers to Brinstar.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*accidental double post
please ignore

 

[_Tree]

Ah, damn, forgot it was a counter-pick. That does sound more reasonable. However, in my personal opinion, I still think it should not be used. This is a bit of a separate argument to what I was talking about, so I apologize for shifting my focus, but I don't think any stage that has elements that add or subtract percent (or launches players) should be allowed. I think the outcome of a match should be decided by a player's skill through how they trade percent with the opponent and figure out how to take the advantage in a match. Once we introduce hazards, problems arise. If someone gets hit, that hazard becomes a confounding variable.
For example: If someone is defeated, who's to say that the reason they hit the blast-zone was due to the percentage that their opponent racked up on them, or because of the small amount that the hazard tacked on? We don't know, but we do know there could be a possibility of the hazard having an influence, therefore creating the possibility that the outcome of the match was decided by the stage rather than the opponent. Once we remove the stage with the hazard, we at least remove the possibility. I don't think the outcome of the match should be decided by how well a player can avoid a stage hazard either, as you're fighting both the stage and the opponent, not just the opponent on their own.
I allow stages like Yoshi's because the random platforms have a minimal effect when compared to something like the lava on Brinstar.

You've probably heard something similar to this many times before, but that's my reasoning behind it. Call me boring, but that's personally how I like to play.

 

[saviorslegacy]

In a tourney you don't get choose what stages are allowed, the TO does.

 

[_Tree]

Well, when I say allow, I mean I'm in favor of the stage being used. I probably could have worded that better.
Of course, when the legal stage list is released (or TOs decide on a stage list) I will have to abide by it whether I like it or not. If there's any kind of vote for what stages should be legal, however, I won't be in support of stages like Brinstar.

 

[Anuran]

fixed my reply from earlier.

 

[saviorslegacy]

fixed my reply from earlier.

Alright, thank you.

Does anyone else have anything to say?
*throws hands up*
Guess people care little about the 3DS stages and are waiting for the Wii U version.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Alright, Wii U version is out and we need to know our counter pick stages and bans. Here is the current discussion thread on stages for Wii U.
http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/page-39#post-17985775

Long story short... we're looking at these.
Battlefield / Miiverse
Town and City
Pilot Wings
Skyloft
Wuhu Island
Smashville
Kongo Jungle 64
Final Destination
Castle Siege
Halberd
Delfino
Lylat Cruise

We can safely assume that these we be neutral:
Final Destination
Battlefield
Smashville

and that everything else will be a counter pick until the actual rules have been posted.
So give me your opinion on your favorite counter pick and your least favorite stage/what counters Sheik.

I will update the OP in a bit.

 

[suarsuar]

I love anything with platforms tbh.

Starting at BF is usually good news for me and ftilts and fairs.

Personally I think that tight, platform heavy stages are key.

I feel that omega stages in general do not offer as many options for comboing - which goes without saying for all characters that like platforms.

imho.

 

[Erodote]

Yeah I agree.
Obviously, as Sheik has a lot of trouble for killing, plateforms are really interesting because they assure sweetspot for Usmash and Bair.
I like BF and SV a lot, compared to omega stages.

 

[_Tree]

Ok, after Australia finally got the WiiU version I had a chance to play every proposed legal stage. I'll do a seperate writeup for each here soon, so sorry to keep you waiting Saviors.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Kinda sorta updated..... now give me your opinion.
I will revise more later when I am done revising my other threads.... *sigh*

 

[_Tree]

Final destination and Battlefield/Miiverse are pretty much the same in the WiiU version, so my comments on those are the same.

Neutral stages

Smashville: Everyone loves this stage. I don't know one person that doesn't. Thankfully it's a decent stage for Sheik as well. Our mobility allows us to use the platform to its fullest combo potential, as well allowing us to get around zoners with a lot of stage control (although they can use it against us, so be careful). The sides of the stage aren't as abusable as something like Battlefield or FD, but it's still possible to bounce off them. Sheik has issues killing sometimes, so a filthy little tactic that could be used is grabbing the opponent on the platform when it's near the side blast zones and throwing into them. Bouncing fish helps us secure this as well. And hey, us Sheik players have something on this stage (and Town and City) that no one else does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utOGSVKmgCs&feature=youtu.be
Overall, a good stage. Learn it, love it. Take anyone here.

Counterpicks

Town and City: Most of what I have to say about this stage is largely similar to Smashville. The main difference is the stage's platforms. The triple platforms are seldom used due to their height, and as such don't affect our game too much. The two platforms are able to be used effectively for elevated combos, so chuck characters up there with an up throw if they can't handle unstable ground. As I've said before our mobility allows the platforms to be abused pretty well, and the balloons on the stage belong to us. Sorry for the lack of elaboration. This stage is simple. Take character's like Robin and Little Mac here.

Pilot Wings: Basically a combination of FD and Lylat. The tilting will affect our needles, but thankfully we aren't reliant on them. Other zoning characters will suffer here however, so take them here. We can wall-jump and bounce off the main engine, so we can use that for positioning and different setups. Generally, our recovery game is pretty good, so if we're caught in a bad situation off-stage because of the tilting we can make it back. Characters like Falcon are not so fortunate however. Due to our fantastic gimp game, take characters like him here for a great advantage.

Skyloft: This stage is very good for us. Getting around the shifting platforms is no problem, and the fact that many of the transformations have a multitude of walls means we can harass the opponent with bouncing fish from nearly any angle. Recovering is also easier because of that and our ability to wall jump. Avoid the water on one the transformations, unless you can get the opponent in there and use it to your advantage with things such as a footstool. Pretty much the same deal as Delfino, so take characters that have bad mobility or air game here.

Wuhu island: The transformations on this stage are mostly good for us. The fencing arena and jet-ski finish line both have walls to use liberally, and the bridge area allows us to shark opponents, especially if they can't act in kind. The boat...is weird. There's a thing that if a character has a specific type of down-throw they can use it to make you hit the bottom of the ship, even while on top of it, killing you instantly. I'm not sure if Sheik can do the same. Almost solely because of that I'd recommend not taking characters like Ness here. Apart from that though this sage is inoffensive. Take any characters here similarly to Skyloft.

Kongo jungle 64: This stage is pretty versatile. Having trouble with zoners? Take 'em here. Because of the indent in the stage and our very low crouch we are able to sneak under their barrage. The two high platforms allow us more edge guarding options, as we can jump on and use them if the opponent decides to recover high. Because of the nature of the stage our mobility allows us to shark opponents. The barrel allows us more recovery options, but does the same for the opponent, hindering our gimp game. I wouldn't take Little Mac here, but It seems good for Mega man and the like.

Castle Siege: The First form of this stage is ok. Platforms are a pretty standard fair, and the deep walls allow us more recovery options, as well edge guarding tools. The second form's statues block our needles...but allow us to bounce around a bit, which I think is a worthy trade. Watch out for the walk-offs, but don't be afraid to use them yourself. The final form is akin to a tilting FD. Nothing special, but our needles may get blocked. The transitions on this stage I feel are a bit more awkward than others, so use your mobility to capitalise on that and put your opponent into a poor position while the stage transitions, possibly gaining you a quick kill. This stage works well as a counter-pick to most characters.

Halberd: I hope you like gourmet race. The standard form of this stage is similar to Smashville but without a moving platform. Sharking is possible here, so come up with an U-air or Vanish. In the beginning of this it's possible to kill the opponent straight up in they aren't able to stay on the platform, so use all your tools to try and score that. The second form of this stage's sides dip in an odd way, but they can still be bounced off of. The hazards here are pretty easily avoided (especially the cannon ball). If the laser focuses me, what I like to do is throw the opponent off the stage and then lock the laser around the edge area. This limits their return options.

Delfino: Almost exactly the same as Skyloft. Platforms are a cinch to traverse, and the multiple walls that come in are great for bouncing fish. Generally, don't tango with many characters in the water. While we do have a spike, it's very hard to utilise. Often, opponents will have better spikes at there disposal, gaining a greater advantage in the water.

Lylat cruise: I don't mind this stage, but I know some people hate it. Thankfully this stage caters to us more often than not. The tilting will block our needles, but affects other character's projectiles more. The edges here are tricky. Basically Brawl's equivalent of the Melee battlefield edges, it's pretty easy to get snagged underneath them and SD, so be careful when getting back or styling. I primarily use this stage to counter keep-away stuff, as the tilting and platforms provide many ways to get around a wall of gyroids and charge shots.

Duck hunt: I ask for Ghirahim, Midna, Zant, Groose...yet we got a dog and this stage. The tree platforms give us extra elevation and therefore more answers to an opponent trying to get back. The tufts of grass that obscure parts of the stage don't really benefit us, but character's like Villager can hide their saplings there, so don't take characters that rely on setups here. (I don't actually remember if we can bounce off the ducks here. If we can that's quite an advantage, as they cover a wide area of options.)

 

[Wasserwipf]

Duck hunt: I ask for Ghirahim, Midna, Zant, Groose...yet we got a dog and this stage. The tree platforms give us extra elevation and therefore more answers to an opponent trying to get back. The tufts of grass that obscure parts of the stage don't really benefit us, but character's like Villager can hide their saplings there, so don't take characters that rely on setups here. (I don't actually remember if we can bounce off the ducks here. If we can that's quite an advantage, as they cover a wide area of options.)

Yes we can!
But overall I think this is actually quite a nice stage for us, as we have some... rather unusual options. Sheik benefits in general from stages that go straight down here, so thats your pick if omega is banned and you want those. (even tho I totally lost my mind and went braindead the last time I played on it. Dunno what happened there.

Anyway, I personally prefer Battlefield as a starter for Sheik, as we can get nice Up-smash kills on the platforms and have better ledge shenanigans. Also, the top platform makes U-air juggelijg and hitting easier, where as Smashvilles moving platform tends to work against this. However, WiiU BF now has some straight parts below it, so you really need to watch out when recovering.
(Yes I am trying to turn this into a discussion "whats the best starter for sheik", even tho this is still MU dependend.)

Overall, good summary, I can agree with most of that. Where do you take the time to write all that? I haven't even figured out all the stages yet (say i lack experience on Skyloft, Pilotwings and WUHU island).

Also, dropping this in here randomly, Sheiks D-throw Stage spike works on WiiU BF as well and on Halberd Omega. I might take the time to test out all the stages...

 

[_Tree]

(Yes I am trying to turn this into a discussion "whats the best starter for sheik", even tho this is still MU dependend.)

I don't think anyone will fight you on Battlefield being the best starter haha. The platforms belong to us, as well as helping with combos and getting around zoners. U-smash goes up though the platforms. Top platform allows for juggling. Plenty of bounce-off points. I'd say it's pretty good.

Where do you take the time to write all that?

I have a severe problem where I write too way much when writing. This severely hindered me on my English exam, even though it was my best subject -__-

 

[MetaBhreat]

I will advocate for Omega stages with walls as much as I can. The wall cling/wall jump option is simply so strong to me. Bouncing Fish is an option DIRECTLY out of wall cling, plus the obvious recovery boost we get from wall jumping.

But more so than that, it ups our edgeguarding game. Smash 4 benefits those who recover low. The walls limit our opponents' recovery options, and it allows us to stage spike at any point in their recovery. Instead of kicking them into the one little spot on, say, SV, we have a whole wall to bash them against.

 

[suarsuar]

-snip-

People know better honestly.

But then again I never thought to take to an omega wall stage if they didn't ban FD.

I just love BF and Delfino so much. :x

But yeah, what the **** do you ban against Sheik?

Girl is good everywhere.

 

[Endeby]

I'm personally not a fan of Delphino at all. Sure, we have a lot of wall shenanigans and can fair people out at the walk-off part. Still, I find that the lack of off-stage game and tiny blastzones hurt us in a lot of matchups.

 

[ArikadoSD]

bumping ._.

imo, Sheik holds her own in nearly all stages; the only ones that are really problematic are Delfino and Halberd, and only because their ceilings are so low and other characters can kill us so early. All other stages come down to personal preference; I personally really dislike Battlefield because I feel like the platforms restrict my movement too much, but I know it's not bad at all for Sheik. A lot of other characters are really annoyed by Lylat but not Sheik; Sheik actually loves Lylat because she's one of the few characters with recoveries that aren't messed up by Lylat's ****ed up edges, and the platforms aren't as restrictive as Battlefield and you can still get a tipper Fsmash from below platforms.

I like Smashville the best because it's not as big as FD, has a useful moving platform, and is flat so you can go to town with Fair strings and Bouncing Fish without being annoyed by platforms.

I do like Battlefield against certain characters though, mainly Sonic, Little Mac (although irrelevant as hell), and zoners because they seriously hate platforms.

 

[_Tree]

Just a little note: Saviors said it earlier, but it would be much appreciated if everyone could voice their opinions on each stage as a separate area. For example, state all your thoughts on battlefield, and then all your thoughts on Smashville etc. This will make it easier for me to slot it into the respective stage area in the OP.

 

[Torterra]

Me personally Duck Hunt it my favorite stage. After losing a stock what I like to do is jump in the tree on the left of the stage and charge my needles. I also like using bouncing fish on the side of the walled stage for edge guarding. Another thing I like about the tree on the left is jumping from branch to branch with up airs and getting an early kill on my opponent. I've done this many times. Lastly, I like the smaller tree on the right side of the stage, because if my opponent is under it, then it's an easy sweet spot up smash. I always counter pick Duck Hunt. I would like to work on using bouncing fish against the ducks though.

 

[Jaxas]

Alright, let's see... I'm no pro obviously, but I may as well chime in with my thoughts on our local (rather large, I know) stage list:

Note: As you'll see, I don't think Sheik really has any particularly awful stages, just ones where certain MUs become trash.

Also, shoutouts to @ParanoidDrone for the stage research threads; they're linked in all the spoilers.

Spoiler: Smashville

Smashville

TL;DR:
This stage is absolutely amazing for Sheik.

Advantages:
It's wide enough that you can play defensive/needle camp when needed, while also being small enough that people can't easily escape you if they're trying to camp. It's long enough that you can Fair string pretty well across it, but easily the best thing about this stage is that if you catch someone in a Fair string while the platform is off the stage, you can 0-death them incredibly easily by just carrying them up to the platform and off from there.
Bonus advantage:
for some reason everyone likes going here because it's the 'most neutral stage'. It isn't at all, but luckily for us it's one of Sheik's best stages, and people like taking us there.

Disadvantages:
The Downsides to this stage are small things like not being able to BF into the stage to recover (unlike Siege and some Omegas, for example), but nothing really major.

Other notes:

• You can BF onto a balloon and bounce off of it, either to cover options or escape (or just look flashy, of course).
• Blast Zones are average size.

Spoiler: Battlefield

Battlefield

TL;DR:
Really good

Advantages:
Sheik has really fast aerials, so platform pressure is pretty easy. The hitbox of Fair (and to a lesser extent Bair) also allow Sheik to pressure platforms rather safely, which is handy. Usmash will also hit opponents standing on either of the 2 lower platforms, and will always tipper. You can get kills by Nairing someone onto the platform and then techchasing with Usmash, which is also handy.
The other great thing about this stage is that it allows Sheik more options to escape juggles (though significantly less now that you can't ledge-cancel BF; why ), which is something that she normally has (small) issues with.

Disadvantages:
As stated earlier, Sheik's needles have to be thrown from the ground to go straight, so you can't hit people on platforms easily with them. This means your opponent can force an approach if they're on a platform... but them being on a platform is a disadvantageous position, so that's mitigated some.

Other Notes:

• The underside of the stage is asymmetrical; Sheik can Bouncing Fish off of the architecture on the right side of the stage to recover.
• Blast Zones are average size.

Spoiler: Final Destination

Final Destination

TL;DR:
Good in some MUs, average-to-bad in others

Advantages:
FD is wide and flat, meaning that a single Fair string can do a lot of damage. It also means that you can force approaches with needles, because there aren't platforms for people to hide on.
Another thing that the lack of platforms helps with is covering landing options; opponents have very limited landing options here, so you can cover them well.

Disadvantages:
Landing yourself can be difficult though; sort of the inverse of Battlefield. Bouncing Fish and Sheik's aerial mobility helps here a lot, but some characters are fast enough to follow you anyways. Certain characters will also outcamp you and force you to approach here, without the assistance of platform cover.

Other Notes:

• Some Omegas have walls all the way down which can aid our (or other's) recoveries. Some stages (such as Kalos League) have walls which can be BF'd off of, but not wall clung/jumped from.
• Blast Zones are average size here as well.

Spoiler: Town & City

Town & City

TL;DR:
One of my personal favorite stages. Good in a lot of matchups, but bad in a lot as well (low ceiling).

Advantages:
Wide and Flat, which has a lot of the advantages of FD. Also has (high) platforms which lets us mix up our landings/recoveries, and they're pressurable like on BF (you just have to full-hop most of the time too). The low ceiling also allows our Uair and Usmash to kill earlier (which is awesome), but some other characters get more out of this than we do. Also, on the "Smashville" portion (the one with 2 low platforms), you can get the Fair strings to death like on SV.

Disadvantages:
Low ceiling makes us die even earlier against some characters. Platforms also allow an escape from needle camping.

Other Notes:

• Horizontal Blast Zones are average distance, but the ceiling is low (2nd lowest out of all the legals in this list, only after Halberd)
• Platforms will kill players on them as they fly off.

Spoiler: Lylat Cruise

Lylat Cruise

TL;DR:
Another great stage for Sheik

Advantages:
Platforms are all at the correct height to always hit tipper Usmash, which is nice. They're also at the right height to continue fair strings on, and pressure safely. Also You can abuse Sheik's crouch along with this stage's tilting to dodge even more things than normal. Speaking of the tilting, this stage doesn't really screw with Sheik's recovery much (practice recovering from under the stage for like 5min and you'll see what I mean), but it definitely does screw with certain other characters' recoveries.
Once again, the platforms let you mix up your landing options (see Disadvantages as well, though). On the other hand, while opponents can cover landing options fairly well here, Sheik is a master of it.

Disadvantages:
With the platforms all being low to the ground quick opponents can simply shark you safely from underneath; this is arguably worse than not having them in some MUs. This works both ways though, and Sheik is great at covering landings.
The tilting makes needles (and certain other moves, at times) miss or far less useful in general.
If you haven't practiced your recovery here, it can screw you up and cost you a stock.

Other Notes:

• Average blast zones
• Omega Lylat has equally screwy ledges, and Sheik still isn't bothered by it. Opponents often are, though.
• There is a glitch on this stage: As the stage tilts, certain attacks that move the fighters can put the fighter in the air temporarily (happens at the ledges & engines only) which cancels the current action.
  • You can use this to your advantage if you know it's coming, which is neat.

Spoiler: Duck Hunt

Duck Hunt

TL;DR:
An alright stage, that I hear a lot of talk about being good. Maybe it is; I personally dislike it in general though.

Advantages:
It's basically FD but with a few additions. The tree on the left allows you to get super early kills if you can trap people there (Dthrow->Uair carrying people into the blast zone is great), and is also a solid camping position. Don't be afraid to retreat there and charge needles... against most people. Some will absolutely kill you for going up there.
The ducks can be Bouncing Fished off of to punish things (for example: BF through an Air Dodge, bounce back and hit them), to move around, and to mix up landings as well. This only works when the sky is blue though; ducks can't be interacted with while the sky is red.


Disadvantages:
Pretty similar to FD, but opponents also have ways around needle camping. The you have to be mindful of the dog too, because he can break your strings or push you into a punish if you're not paying attention. (Pay attention and it happens to your opponents, though!)

Other Notes:

• It's by no means even close to guaranteed, but if you can position the dog under you while you get a grab, Dthrow to Usmash can be hilarious. (Don't actually go for this in a real match, but if it happens link me to the video!)
• This is a 2D stage (similar to Flat Zone X and a few others; if you turn the camera you'll notice that the fighters are actually 2D rather than 3D models). This changes only a few things, but some of them are important. Basically, on most stages certain hitboxes are too deep into the Z axis to actually land (or some dodges avoid moves like this; Dedede's Brawl spotdodge is the most notable), such as Greninja's Fsmash (facing right only...?) and some of DK's moves. This flattens those as well, so certain moves will hit when they wouldn't on other stages.
• If you're hidden behind the patch of grass that pops up, it's difficult to see if you throw needles/grenades

Spoiler: Kongo Jungle 64

Kongo Jungle

TL;DR:
Generally not that great; HUGE blast zones.

Advantages:
The main advantage that matters here is that Sheik has an amazing recovery, so as long as you aren't sent through the blast line you're probably coming back. If you're up against someone with a poor recovery (or someone you know you can gimp) this is a solid choice because you'll survive longer without your opponent doing so.
Crouching in the center of the stage is also hilariously safe most of the time, which is neat.

Disadvantages:
You can go through the ledge with your teleport (if you try to go to the ledge horizontally from too close), which is rather aggravating. If you're worried, just recover onto the stage.
Opponents can survive when they shouldn't thanks to the barrel.

Other Notes:

• Blast zones here are HUGE (Horizontally and vertically)
• Characters shot from the barrel are invincible (and a hitbox) until they're at about the height of the top platforms (and can tech on said platforms as well)
• When shot from the cannon, characters will regain their jumps.
• Diddy's Uair takes a while to kill here, and has a (relatively...) gimpable recovery. If you're super confident in gimping Diddys, this becomes an amazing stage.

Spoiler: Skyloft

Skyloft

TL;DR:
Honestly not sure; it doesn't seem bad, though? Seems to not do much or hurt much.

Advantages:
Temporary walkoffs give you the ability to kill at ludicrously low percents with simple Fair strings.
Certain traveling section arrangements let you pressure opponents on platforms really well, while also being wide and flat for more Fair strings and needles.

Disadvantages:
Not sure; some areas the blast zones seem kind of far, but I may be wrong about this.

Other Notes:

• I play here a decent amount, and it never seems particularly amazing nor particularly awful.

Spoiler: Wuhu Island

Wuhu Island

TL;DR:
Also seems pretty average

Advantages:
Traveling transformations (the surfboard-like flying things) are generally wide and flat (good for Fair strings) and have low platforms (good for safe pressure).
There are some temporary walkoffs, which are also good for Fair string low% kills.
Most transformations are either easy to fight on (and generally FD-like) or advantageous to camp with needles (or grenades, on some occasions)

Disadvantages:
Completely anecdotal, but people seem to live a while here. I think the blast zones may be a bit larger than normal? Not sure though.
Water areas are much better for characters with decent/strong spikes than they are for us.

Other Notes:

• I don't believe the boat glitch works on Sheik with any character, so you shouldn't have to worry about that
• Watch out for the red Balloon on the cliff area, it has strong knockback. Also watch out for the takeoff at the end of that transition, it's incredibly fast for some reason and will kill people still on the cliff.

Spoiler: Delphino Island

Delphino Island

TL;DR:
Solid, but no huge plusses or minuses.

Advantages:
This, like the other 'travelling' stages, seems to be pretty solid but average for us. We have some neat things here, but generally the stage doesn't directly assist nor hinder Sheik.
Low ceiling during transitions lets us kill earlier with some of our easier kill setups (Dthrow->Uair), and Sheik's generally elusive enough to avoid getting grabbed during the transitions if played right.

Disadvantages:
Low ceiling during transitions is more useful to some other characters (Diddy, for example) than us.
Water is far more useful to characters with stronger spikes than us.

Other Notes:

• When I say the blast zones get closer during transitions, I mean by a lot. They seem to shrink when approaching a new area (or leaving it?), then grow to the transformation's size.

Spoiler: Castle Siege

Castle Siege

TL;DR:
Matchup-dependant, but good. (Bonus: Doesn't seem to be a stage Diddy likes!)

Advantages:
Temporary (45sec) walkoff in the form of the 2nd transformation (as well as during the transitions); Fair strings, you know the drill by now.
Platforms allow us to mix up landing options a ton, and with customs we can still needle camp if we wish on this transformation.
Bouncing Fish can be bounced off the wall on the 1st (and 3rd...?) transformations for extra recovery distance.
Slight dips(pt1)/tilts(pt3) let us crouch and dodge more things than normal, if you're mindful of your positioning.

Disadvantages:
Transformations can save gimped opponents.
First transformation is also a bit small, and if you want to avoid your opponent to catch your breath it's not the best spot to do so.
Hitting statues in the 2nd area incurs hitlag, making your moves less safe. This can also be an advantage by extending the length of time your hitbox is active, but Sheik's moves aren't particularly benefitted by this (as opposed to, say, Ganon or Ike's giant, powerful hits).

Other Notes:

• Piercing needles go through the statues, allowing us to camp still.
• Bouncing Fish will bounce off the statues, letting us set up some cheesy/flashy kills if that's your thing

Spoiler: Halberd

Halberd

TL;DR:
Generally more helpful to opponents than us, but not necessarily a bad stage for Sheik.

Advantages:
Low ceiling combined with a platform at tipper Usmash height lets us get early kills, and Dthrow/Dtilt/Ftilt->Uair works obscenely well here.
Stage control seems slightly more advantageous here than most places, due to the dip in the middle of the stage and the way the platform is designed. Sheik is great at taking stage control, so this is helpful.

Disadvantages:
Other characters often get more from this stage than we do, such as Diddy/ZSS/other vertically-oriented killers and those who can shark under the stage (Jiggs/MK/etc). We of course die much earlier off the top as well as Sheik is rather light.

Other Notes:

• If you have the Laser targeting you, get your opponent offstage and target the laser at the ledge. Either your opponent dies, or you get easy pickings if they manage to get over it (this works for any character, of course)
• Don't be in the Hangar as the flying part takes off at the start of the match, you will die instantly
• You CAN SDI out of the laser, so do it

Spoiler: Pokemon Stadium 2

Pokemon Stadium 2

TL;DR:
Honestly not positive, but it seems really good for Sheik.

Advantages:
Default:
Default transformation is really good, as it's FD with easily pressured platforms. Lots of space, flat ground, and it's not particularly difficult to force approaches if you desire.

Electric Transformation:
This transformation revolves completely around having stage control, and abusing it once you do. Sheik is great at taking control of the stage with her speed and safety, and while it's more difficult to acquire here it's much more rewarding than normal.
Once you're in control you can needle opponents as they try to take center stage, chuck grenades at them if they're waiting on the ledge, and safely and easily repel them if they get near you. Definitely a great position to be in.

Ice Transformation:
Not particularly good or bad, but it does let us do sliding F/Dtilts and the like while staying safe, and it makes (sliding) Usmash a lot safer as well.

Ground Transformation:
Not good or bad. You can toss grenades over the hill if you're opponent isn't approaching and is a ways back.

Flying Transformation:
Ever wished your Uair could kill at any percent? Well now it (almost) can! With the way Sheik's Uair drags people with her and how this transformation changes gravity, you can carry your opponent almost all the way up to the blast zone if you catch them with a simple jumping Uair. The timing seems a bit different out of a Dthrow, just as a heads up.
Also, we can get down with Dair faster than most characters, which is handy.

Disadvantages:
Default:
No particular disadvantages, really. Average for us at worst.

Electric:
Some other characters can make use of stage control better than we can (DHD probably, as an example).

Ice:
Makes controlling Sheik more difficult if you're not used to it. Also lets other characters be safer by doing retreating tilts.

Ground:
Not sure who it's good or bad for; lets people charge if they have charging moves? Maybe?

Flying:
Short Hop Aerials (aka SHFair) doesn't work here, so you have to either commit to being airborne for a while or stick to the ground. (Luckily Sheik's ground game is also stellar)
Controlling Sheik is very difficult if you're not used to this area.
Other characters can get more out of this transition (as ever, looking at you, Diddy).


Other Notes:

• You can jump out of your skid animation (important for Ice transformation)
• Average-sized blast zones

Not sure if this is actually helpful at all (and I feel like I'm a broken record sometimes), but here it is - hope it helped someone at least!

 

[_Tree]

Will update the OP with PS2 soon. Uni work and medical problems like to make things difficult for me.

Good work everyone who's contributed though. The thread's feeling more complete already.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Let's get the DLC maps included in this discussion. This is a thread that needs to not die.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Miiverse is BF but with one important thing: The platforms are wider. This mostly doesn't matter, but you can hit tipper usmash if you're standing on the edge of the centre platforms and the target is standing above you on the top platform.

This probably makes it better than BF for Sheik.

Tipper usmash connects same way as it does for BF in Dream land. I really like that stage, the lower ceiling means we can get an easier time getting uair kills.

Anyway gonna drop this here LOL, the tier list of Sheik's stages imo.

S: FD, SV
A: T&C
B: BF, DL, Castle Siege, DH
C: Lylat
D: Delfino, Halberd

 

[_Tree]

Updated with Legal DLC stages. Will post my own thoughts on them soon.

 

[Joaco]

Thanks for your hard work Tree! I'll give my input later.

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

How do we all feel about flat stages like Duck Hunt and FD? I constantly have people ban them against me because of my habit of playing keepaway with needles. This makes me a sad panda.

Nevermind, just answered my own question by looking up. A-derp-a-herp.