Sheik and Greninja's Wall Climbing and Omegas

[Illuvial]

With their wall jumping and wall holding ability any Omega that has a huge platform that extends all the way down (like Gerudo Valley) becomes their heaven. They can play so insanely lame, and a lot of characters can't really do much about it. I've been playing matches against friends and they absolutely hate how much I can wind the clock down once I get a stock lead. They take lame to a whole new level, and its apparent that these characters have really solid counterpick Omega stages now, which is kinda a shame. Its certainly not banworthy or anything, but its worth noting, I feel

What are your thoughts? Do you think their stalling is really, really useful or do people just not know how to deal with it yet? Do you think its more of a problem for Sheik or Greninja (personally I think Sheik abuses it way better)?

 

[infomon]

How are you abusing the wall climb? Are you just falling waaay down the side and hanging out there? Doesn't the wall-cling end after a set amount of time?

I could see this destroying L'il Mac but someone with a vertical projectile like Ness or Sonic should lol @ this.

 

[Illuvial]

How are you abusing the wall climb? Are you just falling waaay down the side and hanging out there? Doesn't the wall-cling end after a set amount of time?

I could see this destroying L'il Mac but someone with a vertical projectile like Ness or Sonic should lol @ this.

You can sit there and just constantly jump and hang and just stay on the wall permanently. You might think that someone could just try using a projectile or something against them, but any smart player would just use Sheik or Greninja's hellishly slick and deceptive Up Bs to avoid those, and its so obvious to use a projectile against them that they would see it coming from a mile away.

Regardless, it makes MUs against certain characters horribly one sided

 

[<π]

If you try to stall out like that with sheik eventually you'll die. gren can recover from hell.

I can't talk much for Gren, but these stages do greatly increase sheik's recovery and edge guard game.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Don't forget about us

This is a gimmick really. Just find a. character with a projectile that can stop them. I'm thinking Villager, bowling balls and tress for days.

 

[infomon]

Gimmicky 'til it happens to you in tourney maybe, on their counterpick. I look forward to seeing this being used in real matches to determine if it's an actual threat or if we'll find effective ways to counter it.

 

[Coq1]

Isn't stalling banned in tournaments ?

 

[Chiroz]

Isn't stalling banned in tournaments ?

It is but "what is stalling" needs to be clearly defined in order to regulate it. Anyways, wall clinging improves Greninja's and Sheik's recovery and ledge guarding game so well. Greninja has a unique property to this wall clinging/jumping which is extremely weird. When holding the ledge if you smash backwards Greninja will actually perform a wall jump from the ledge instead of dropping. Pretty cool.

 

[SonicZeroX]

It is but "what is stalling" needs to be clearly defined in order to regulate it. Anyways, wall clinging improves Greninja's and Sheik's recovery and ledge guarding game so well. Greninja has a unique property to this wall clinging/jumping which is extremely weird. When holding the ledge if you smash backwards Greninja will actually perform a wall jump from the ledge instead of dropping. Pretty cool.

I think if your hitbox touching the stage when you are holding onto a flat ledge, then tapping back makes you walljump. I know Falcon did this in Melee.

 

[Thinkaman]

I can't find a single way to get around the same anti-exploit rules that were in Brawl. Walljumps have a cooldown, and cling duration is cut in half each time used in succession without touching the ledge/stage. After cling 3, the cling duration is too short to continue the wall jump loop.

And of course, this being smash 4, repeat ledge grab is a non-option.

 

[Chiroz]

I think if your hitbox touching the stage when you are holding onto a flat ledge, then tapping back makes you walljump. I know Falcon did this in Melee.

Ummm, maybe this is what's happening. It also counts as Greninja is wallclinging. When dropping from the ledge he can't cling for a short period of time unlike Sheik or Lucario who can.

 

[LinkNIvy]

It is but "what is stalling" needs to be clearly defined in order to regulate it. Anyways, wall clinging improves Greninja's and Sheik's recovery and ledge guarding game so well. Greninja has a unique property to this wall clinging/jumping which is extremely weird. When holding the ledge if you smash backwards Greninja will actually perform a wall jump from the ledge instead of dropping. Pretty cool.

Sheik gets one wall jump while clinging to walls as well.

 

[Chiroz]

Sheik gets one wall jump while clinging to walls as well.

Yea but Greninja can get it from the ledge for some reason. Also Greninja is the only one who can't cling for a full second after he drops the ledge (while the other 3 can cling instantly). This leads me to believe that the game thinks Greninja is "clinging" to the ledge when he's actually just grabbing on to it (This is only on walled Omegas though).

 

[DavemanCozy]

You could wall-jump infinitely with Samus in the center bottom of Battlefield in Melee. That got banned in tournaments. Why not just do the same if it turns out to be terribly cheap in Smash 3DS?

Also, this:

I can't find a single way to get around the same anti-exploit rules that were in Brawl. Walljumps have a cooldown, and cling duration is cut in half each time used in succession without touching the ledge/stage. After cling 3, the cling duration is too short to continue the wall jump loop.

And of course, this being smash 4, repeat ledge grab is a non-option.

 

[Fortress]

Just another gimmick. It's a feature in Project M, too, that doesn't see too much use in high-level play, mostly due to the fact that the opponent has the ability to counterpick a stage without walls. Chalk this trick up to the random stage pick environment of For Glory. I guarantee it's not going to be as huge an issue in tournament play, especially when TO's can enforce anti-stalling rules.

 

[Tesh]

i can definitely see this being annoying as it wastes a good bit of time, but aside from mac, i can't think of anyone that cant just go down there and hit you pretty easily. and mac will just dsmash you the second time you grab the ledge anyway.

 

[Metal B]

In "For Glory" you can simply report a person, since stalling is also against Nintendo's therms.