SH fair to uair or dair

[MookieRah]

Every good Marther out there knows the effectiveness of the double fair; however, I rarely ever see anybody talking about the other possibilities with Marth's second aerial attack. Your options are just limited to another fair, and while fair is a more all purpose 2nd aerial you can do an uair or even a dair.

Fair uair has a lot of benefits. It combos better on heavier/faster falling characters and sets up for uptilts and then more aerials. You space it differently too, so if you are getting too close to your opponent to get the max out of a fair you can switch into an uair.

Fair to dair is also useful, but it's by far the most situational of the 2nd aerials. It has some nice features. It's easy to tip it to spike on fox and falco, and the lag it gives them gives you enough time to land a grab. For other characters it is a good choice at low percent cause it pops them up slightly, not as high as uair and not as horizontal as fair. I haven't experimented much with this one, cause I didn't *think* it would be all that great untill a friend of mine pointed it out.

 

[Schweppes]

I think Fair -> Uair is fairly well-known...

I've used Fair -> Dair if I'm by the edge and it's convenient, ie. Fair a fastfaller at low percent from above a platform -> Dair, but never in a SH...I'll try it.

Fair -> Bair has it's uses also for example if they roll behind you during/after the Fair.

 

[Aiser]

I really like the fair > uair combo cause liek you said it works well on heavys. but fair > dair seems really situational I mean unless you can spike with it not sure what kind of things you can open up with it. I'll experiment with it see what I get though. <_<

 

[MookieRah]

Fair -> Bair has it's uses also for example if they roll behind you during/after the Fair.

Well, I was primarily talking about setup options, in which case I don't see fair to bair practical; however, it should be noted that it is doable.

I think Fair -> Uair is fairly well-known...

I wasn't saying it was new or not well-known, simply that it is rarely discussed. All I see is double fair threads, and rarely does anyone mention that it is not limited to just two fairs.

Keep in mind, a lot of people aren't aware of all the knowledge known about characters, and this in particular is something that *should* be discussed more often, or as often as double fair simply because it's on the same topic and is also incredibly effective.

Personally, I am an off and on Marth player, and by making this topic I was hoping to learn a little more about it's potential uses while still inform others of it's existance and start up an informative and interesting fresh topic.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Fair to Uair is the better choice, you set yourself up for better combos racking up percents. i still think that it would probably be more useful to just double fair, due to the fact proper DI can get out of the fair/uair combo, its mainly situational but if its pulled off it works great.

 

[REØ]

space animals...fair>uair>grab

 

[MC Mike]

Fair to Uair is the better choice, you set yourself up for better combos racking up percents. i still think that it would probably be more useful to just double fair, due to the fact proper DI can get out of the fair/uair combo, its mainly situational but if its pulled off it works great.

Yeah i agree Fair/Fair is a better combo (IMO) than Fair/Uair. Fair/Uair can be good depending on char and the percent so basically it is situational like he said. Also Fair/Fair leads into tippers which is good.

 

[BrTarolg]

why not fair +overb + fair
you have to be REALLY fast but you do lift yourself off the ground with over+b. <shorthopped>

 

[Schweppes]

There's so many ways to create effective combos with Marth, it's kinda absurd to try and name them all...

BTW, I tested out the Dair, and to be honest I can't find a very practical use for it...Uair seems to be better in nearly every way (unless you can spike).

...it is rarely discussed. All I see is double fair threads...

That's because all the newbs don't understand the Fair -> Fair combo that you see a LOT of in Vs. matches...and once you master Fair -> Fair, Fair -> Uair is no problem, and thus you don't see many threads about it. =o

Edit: You do mean Fair -> Dair in one SH, right? Not Fair -> (DJ) Dair.

 

[MookieRah]

I do mean fair > dair in one shorthop. I'm curious as to how fair > dair works on CC'ing opponents. It seems to be the most powerful in terms of knockback/power (assuming that you spike with it), so perhaps it would be more effective at screwing CCer's up at earlier percents than the other aerials.

 

[Schweppes]

My main concern is the lag...even if you DO L-cancel it, it's plenty of time for a Fox, Samus, and other CC'ing characters to counter...and the fact that you can't really space it makes it all the easier. Also, if you land the Fair, your opponent will be in the air - and the Dair will spike him to the ground, not bounce him up, I believe.

If you can make it work, go for it. I want to see vids. =o

 

[MookieRah]

It bounces if you don't tip it, it spikes if you do. On fastfallers they go through that odd backflip on the ground animation if you hit them with it at low percent. I very much doubt that if you fastfall it and l-cancel it that they couldn't be able to hit you out of it. I dunno how effective it would be overall, especially seeing as how uair is an easier option that yeilds the same results, but why throw out the possibility that it might not have many uses with only theory smash?

 

[RCD]

fair to nair

 

[SOPF]

fair to nair

RCD, Fair to Nair is a horrible choice in double SH aerials being that only the first, much weaker in terms of knockback, attack comes out before landing. If you can find some good use for those two attacks in a single SH please let me know because apparently I overlooked that aspect of Marth.
Anyway, as to this thread, although I don't actually use the double SH aerials that often, I find the Fair->Dair almost useless, but the double Fair and Fair->Uair have their uses, especially in setting up combos. I prefer the double Fair but that's just my opinion.

 

[metroid1117]

why not fair +overb + fair
you have to be REALLY fast but you do lift yourself off the ground with over+b. <shorthopped>

I just created a thread about that .

Anyway, there are lots of things you can do after a short-hopped FAir; as stated above, you can use another FAir, an UAir, a DAir, a NAir if you want the semi-jab cancel, a BAir if they roll behind you, and Dancing Blade if you're quick. You can even waveland behind your opponent and grab them if they don't shieldgrab you. I personally don't use the FAir -> DAir; unless you miss the first FAir or your opponent crouch-cancels, your opponent won't be directly under you, and if they are under you and slightly in front of you, I'd rather follow up with a non-sweetspotted FAir and then either grab or FSmash after it depending on their damage.

 

[knightpraetor]

personally the only use i can see for it is killing CCers if they CC your first aerial....even so.. it's more likely that they will hit you before the dair comes out.


also..i've sorta forgotten when i should DJ to the dair and when i should just fall to kill CCers..even so like i said..you won't get much use out of it...good players CC and then counter rather fast...i can get a little use on samus i guess if they're dsmashing...that's when i think you jump afterwards..can't think of any other cases

 

[ArcNatural]

It's funny that you mention 3 of the four aerials for the sh fair -> fair,dair,upair. Why hasn't anyone pointed out the Nair? The Nair never fully comes out (only the first hit) but this IS extremely good for getting a Fair -> Nair -> Grab on floatier characters. I tend to alternate between this and an Upair when I get too close after the second Fair. This is also pretty effective to be able to l-cancel to dash behind/away since it takes a little longer to come out than a Fair. I really love this tactic at higher percentages where an Upair would send them too high to combo effectively. A lot of players are surprised when I pull this out, I don't know I just find it effective and links to many other options.