Servants of Evil ~a Ganondorf discussion thread /move and topic #3

[Nelo Vergil]

Hey fellow board members and Ganondorf mains alike, I've been searching around these boards for a long time (though not so long have i actively been posting) and lets face it, Ganondorf does not demand alot of respect in this game, often considered the worst character of the roster, often coming up short in tournaments in both Japan and North America, as well as a learning curve (a very small one but its there) have put alot off alot of people from using him.

Thats why I thought this thread would be a good idea, a place where people can just talk Ganon, whether about his history, his gameplay, his tactics, his tourney progress, w/e. Here all Ganondorf mains, or any one can contribute to the community something about Ganondorf, as long as it does just that, CONTRIBUTE. If you can't think of anything to add yourself, then add on to the topic of the day, or talk about the move of the day, which will allow both pros and joes alike to give input on the different mechanics and uses to Ganondorf's moveset, one piece at a time. Feel free to also vote on new topic's of the day to give us something to talk about for a while to come.

Also I'll keep a list of useful threads so if your looking for something specific you just have to come here to find it, feel free to suggest other threads to go here.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=139737
Ganondorf's Video Thread made by DarkSpidey13, go here for videos of Ganon gameplay, as well as other extras such as homerun contest or the thunderstorm tutorial.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144632
a very informative guide for beginners and veterans alike by ~Shin~, here you'll find detailed stats on his moveset, advice for battle, as well as a few extra Ganon related things

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162214
the Ganondorf matchup thread created by Flying Dutchman, if you need help on a specific character look here, also matchup's are ever changing so feel free to add to any matchup here.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169424
a flame choke breakdown made by Jekyll for one of Ganon's must needed guide moves, the side-B

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164751
a very awsome compilation of the more advance parts of Ganon's game, made by the awsome Sliq, very good thread, a must see

Topic of the Day: Best partner to conquer all others
Going back to a Brawl related topic, this ones relatively simple, Ganondorf is a character lacking when it comes to match ups 1v1, but what about 2v2, who is the best team mate to have, do you feel like you have to change any strategy to accomadate for others, and remember, Team attack is on
Move of the Day: Side-B
The third move of the day is the Ganondorf's Gerudo dragon replacement, the Flame Choke, since this move has so much depth to it, this is gonna be the move of 2 days, so come talk about the Ganoncide enabler

I'll keep an index of past Topic's and Move's here, though i'll only select one comment on each to go along with it, as well as listing what posts/pages they were talked about

DAY 1
T:Ganondorf's Tier, posts 2-8

For Ganon, I'd say a range between middle of Low Tier to low of Middle Tier. He has problems with many characters up there, but Ganon has his own fair share of strengths to overwhelm.

Move:Uair, posts 2-8

The uair can be used to juggle at low percents and even maybe a gimp kill

Day 2
T:Ganondorf and VA posts 9-24

Zelda grunts. I'm not complaining
But on a serious note, the gaming world might be in an uproar if they introduced a Zelda game "now with real character voices!" or something similar to FFX's cover lol.

M:F-tilt

Ganon's ftilt seems to completely overshadow his jab to me. They both come out at about the same speed, but ftilt has better range and knockback. His jab has substantially more hitstun, but too slow for follow-up. In any case, his ftilt is one of his best moves, mainly because he has nothing else that's better. I miss his old ftilt from melee! ;-;

Credit goes to all the thread creators as well as VersatileBJN for the thread idea

 

[Gleam]

Good topic.

Tier wise, well Ganondorf has always been placed between Middle and Bottom, the majority being bottom. I myself feel he falls around low tier. I think that as time goes on, Ganondorf will slowly rise up and (pray to the Goddess Din above) He may get to Mid tier with very hard work.

I must say Uair is actually my favorite aerial of Ganondorf, because mainly its his best aerial. Speed, little lag, knockback, reach, an almost 360 degree hit ratio. I probably use Uair most to finish an oppoent off the stage.

 

[HeoandReo]

A lot of my friends that play say that Ganon sucks, but he's still awesome in his own way. I secondary'd him in Melee,(Previously mained Falcon) and since Falcon isn't as great anymore(read: I can't use him as well), and that Ganon is really fun to play, now he's my main.

For Ganon, I'd say a range between middle of Low Tier to low of Middle Tier. He has problems with many characters up there, but Ganon has his own fair share of strengths to overwhelm.
I hope he ends up low, myself. Another reason for people to be driven away from him, so that the handful of Ganons can be unique.

I like uair. It's actually one of my main killing moves because of the pseudo-spike at the end and my propensity to edgeguard. It's good for aerial combos and the like as well. RAR'ed uairs are the sex. Not my favourite aerial move, (That award would go to dair/Thunder Drop, for being the best spike/damage dealer/combo-er in the world, cuz I love spikes.) but still an asset to Ganon play.

My liking for dair could also be attributed to my dair-focused style as Falcon in Melee, but that's another story for another day...

 

[Devil7]

Ganon is definently low tier unless something major happens he sits at the bottem. The uair can be used ti juggle at low percents and even maybe a gimp kill

 

[Neo M.J]

I think he will end up as a high low tier, theres simply to many snake, MK and other overpowered charterers being used for him to shine, kinda like DK in melee, he might have potential, but low user base hurts him in the tier list.

 

[goodoldganon]

Sadly, the best Ganon will get is top of the low tier. Doesn't stop him from being incredibly fun though.

 

[:034:]

We're lucky if we get into low tier, honestly. It's not that Ganon is bad, it's just that a lot of others are much better, and have a lot more over Ganon. Ganon just has too many bad match-ups.

 

[Metal_Dave]

Somewhere around low tier for sure, but he'll still own face regardless of tier.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Best case scenario is that he gets to bottom of mid. He's extremely bad, he just sucks compared to the rest of the roster.

And this thread has a serious lack of Renth.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

might as well start this off mainly cuz of the topic.

Honestly Ganondorf is a villian that you can tell would have a greta memorable voice, and thats derived just from his laugh, to me I think i'd be great for him to talk, with nintendo's great writing would help cement his already great legacy, just as long as Link grunts i'd be fine with voice acting.

His ftilt besides just being bad*** is a great way to set up lack luster recoveries to be edgeguarded, as well as a great ko method.

 

[misterbee180]

You know, for people who main or play w/ ganon you really have a odd placement for him. What about his abnormally great priority and power? And his lack of lag on almost all of his moves? What about his long range shield grab? What about his thunder stomp that kills at 70 to 90 percent? I main ganon and I find his placement on this "tier list" that people have made to be horrendiously wrong. Sure, he has quite a learning curve and you can't just walk into a tournie and expect to pick him and win w/o extensive training. But once you have become great, like me with him, his power makes him one of the best characters in the game.

As I tell my friends, to win with ganon, all you have to do is play like your opponant is you biotch and you will win. Play with the knowledge that you are a stronger and better character than them and ganon will have quite a distinct advantage.

 

[Metal_Dave]

...are we talking about the same game?? His shield+grab is not anything out of this world. In fact his grab range is not that great at all, he struggles so much even trying to grab smaller characters like pikachu where your just forced to drop the option of grabbing in your game.
As for thunder stomp it kills more like at 100+ well...depending on the stage but like on FD/BF it's around there. He is a hell of a character, and has always been my favorite but your giving him way too much credit...honestly. Best character in the game? That made me laugh. lol

 

[Gleam]

You know, for people who main or play w/ ganon you really have a odd placement for him. What about his abnormally great priority and power? And his lack of lag on almost all of his moves? What about his long range shield grab? What about his thunder stomp that kills at 70 to 90 percent? I main ganon and I find his placement on this "tier list" that people have made to be horrendiously wrong. Sure, he has quite a learning curve and you can't just walk into a tournie and expect to pick him and win w/o extensive training. But once you have become great, like me with him, his power makes him one of the best characters in the game.

As I tell my friends, to win with ganon, all you have to do is play like your opponant is you biotch and you will win. Play with the knowledge that you are a stronger and better character than them and ganon will have quite a distinct advantage.

If only the bold part was true. Ganondorf does have lag, hell, it's the supposed "lag" that many people think he's down right horrible.

I can see why people would want to put him so low, but at the same time I feel that some of the disatvatages people say Ganon has are a little, incorrect. For one, the lack of L-cancelling. One aerial has been affected by the lack of L-cancelling, and that's Fair. Now Fair was an awesome move, and because of no L-canceling, it hurt Ganon.

Every other aerial has no lag on landing, and considering Nair and Uair, and perhaps Bair, has very little start up lag, make them very good aerial attack. Dair, as everyone probably knows can be short hopped to get no lag.

In a sense, Ganondorf's aerials have not changed much from Melee, stronger I would say, but nevertheless, they have not changed much. I would say Ganon's aerials were nerfed, but not in the sense that everyone says.

And where Ganondorf's aerials were nerfed, his ground game was severely buffed, for reasons I don't think I need to explain.

Another thing that I've witnessed, is people saying Ganon has terrble reach. This is just plain out wrong. I don't know what the distiction between far reach and low reach is, but I can be certain that Ganondorf doesn't fall under the low end. If he did, he'd certainly be on the upper end of it.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

o boy, seems i started a tier war

 

[0RLY]

Ganon's ftilt seems to completely overshadow his jab to me. They both come out at about the same speed, but ftilt has better range and knockback. His jab has substantially more hitstun, but too slow for follow-up. In any case, his ftilt is one of his best moves, mainly because he has nothing else that's better. I miss his old ftilt from melee! ;-;

 

[HeoandReo]

Actually, I don't play any Zelda games, so I can't really offer input on the question. But I have a gut feeling that it wouldn't be Zelda with the voices.

Ftilt is also awesome. One of my preferred combos is Flame Choke--->dtilt--->ftilt at low %s, and it's a viable kill move at the high %s. It has very good range and priority as well. There is some noticeable startup and ending lag, though, and a quick reacting character can punish either before or after.

The move also has the dubious distinction of looking cool in battle, but not quite so much when paused. (Either that or I haven't found a way to make it look epic.)

 

[Sora Master2.0]

Heres the thing. Gannon has trouble with the approach every now and then. I think the best way to get Gannon up on the tier list, is for mind games. That'll help get him higher. And we need more risks when using him because he's a heavy so he won't be KO'd so easy. And one of the simplest ways to dodge "most" projectiles is a rush attak or a simple click of the A button. Thats all I can think of.

 

[Renth]

is this a brawl or melee discussion i'm tarded and didn't look where the thread is anyway..

I love brawl ganon and melee ganon i don't believe in either game they're low tier.

Sorry for this crappy post lol feel free to ask questions though

 

[Gleam]

the last time I knew, Melee Ganondorf was at the very bottom of mid tier. I remember a long time ago he was high tier. (those were the days.)

I seriously think Brawl Ganon will be like Melee Ganon. At the bottom because he has lag and crappy recovery and what not. Then, new techniques (Like L-cancelling and wavedashing that were discovered in Melee) will soon let Ganondorf rise up in the ranks. Probably not to his Melee days, but certainly rise.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

I rather hope Ganon gets the lowest tier position possible.

1. Use it as a taunt when you win/ a john when you lose >_>

2. People will see you use a low tier character and severely underestimate you, thinking the match will be handed to them.

 

[:034:]

Zelda kind of already has voice acting. Just grunts, but still. Anyway, they'd probably screw up on actual voice acting.

Ftilt is the best of the tilts. It looks awesome and it kills pretty easily. Too bad it doesn't have a bit more range though, sometimes it seems as if Jab has more range than the ftilt..

 

[Tenki]

Zelda grunts. I'm not complaining
But on a serious note, the gaming world might be in an uproar if they introduced a Zelda game "now with real character voices!" or something similar to FFX's cover lol.

I come up short with the f-tilt often, and with people talking about its range, I keep feeling like it should reach as far as, say, Ike's f-tilt, or at least outrange his smash. But it doesn't. It has alot less startup lag than the other two though, so I like that about it. It seems like a good edge-guarding move/move to use near the edges, true to 300's demonstration of the f-tilt.

Back where I was able to play with random people offline, I used to shout "(THIS IS) SPARTA!" as the f-tilt hit them xD.

 

[Phoenix Reborn]

I would have to consider Ganondorf to be low tier. I used to main Wolf, but after many rounds of playing and also many rounds of losing, I felt that trying to play this game with a serious attitude only ends up leaving me demoralized and disappointed. The first time I used Ganondorf (Even though he was no match for my opponents) I laughed at the sheer hilarity of just how much POWER goes into his attacks.

Now I main Ganondorf because he makes me laugh. There's nothing like getting thrown off stage and then managing to land a Side-B on the poor fellow who tries to come after you and Ganonciding with them clenched in your fists! >=D

But yeah, I think Ganon is low tier to me, and quite frankly I actually like it that way. To the inexperienced player, the underdogs are the ones that they expect least to do well. I however, feel that Ganon's raw power has promise and I've made it a goal to get as good with him as I possibly can to surprise unsuspecting Brawlers out there!

Heres to all Ganon fans!

 

[Devil7]

Ganon should have Samuel L. Jackson as his voice actor. That would be total bad @$$, that and who reads anymore anyways.

The spartan kick can be used around 25% near the edge so your opponent flys out and all you generally have to do is edgehog.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

all right day 3 is up guys

on a quick side note i see Renth graced this thread with his prescence, has nayone seen him play brawl, i've looked around and seen nothing (not that I'm complaining, still got bizzaro and sliq videos to watch for Ganon )

 

[Devil7]

Ganon really good with characters that have long range attcks like zelda, pit, link, yoshi, samus, and lucario. Of all I would pit and Zelda are the best.

The flame choke is definently his best move because of tech chasing and the fact it can be tacked onto the end of almost any move he has.

 

[HeoandReo]

Since Ganon's more of a sluggish power character, I'm thinking someone like Meta Knight who can combo. The projectile people also sound like a good idea, though. (I don't have much experience in team battles) It really depends on the style of the player and the synergy of the team.

Flame Choke is yet another one of Ganondorf's really good moves. It can tech-chase, setup for combos, and do an irresistably cool suicide move. I always go for a Ganoncide when given the opportunity, no matter how impractical. (Unless I'm at the last stock, though. I try to maintain some common sense.)

 

[Grunt]

Ganondorf is clearly Top Tier. he has a gleaming gold sword, but wont use it, because he doesn't want to get it dirty. he's that badass.

on a serious note:

he need a projectile.

 

[Metal_Dave]

The teams game is very interesting, because I've won at a doubles tourney with a team of Ganon & Ike(and everyone was like wtf??). So I mean you can either go with two strong characters and rock people's faces or more of a conservative game with someone who is agile, or has a projectile, and the ability to combo.

 

[The_Dyne]

Flame Choke has given me some really good memories, like the time I tech chased my friend 6 times; he started panicking a little, though he tried not to show it. Classic...

And on the subject of teams, I seemed to do really well with Pit as a teammate.

 

[WastingPenguins]

sometimes it seems as if Jab has more range than the ftilt..

I'm 99% sure that it does.

 

[Renth]

I currently have no recording equipment.