Series Representation

[Robert of Normandy]

Why does Fire Emblem deserve more characters?

Because it's one of Nintendo's longest running series? Each individual game in the series also has a massive and diverse cast.

The characters are interchangeable anyway. Just a new sword wielding hero every game.

Never played a Fire Emblem game before, have you?

Just because 2 characters use a similar weapon doesn't mean they'll use it in exactly the same way. For instance, Marth, Ike, and Lyn all use swords, but in completely different ways. Now, what you've said is true to some extent - most lords from FE 1-5 don't have much to set themselves apart from each other. However, most Lords from after FE6 usually have something to set themselves apart.

 

[Aipom]

Because it's one of Nintendo's longest running series? Each individual game in the series also has a massive and diverse cast.

Never played a Fire Emblem game before, have you?

Just because 2 characters use a similar weapon doesn't mean they'll use it in exactly the same way. For instance, Marth, Ike, and Lyn all use swords, but in completely different ways. Now, what you've said is true to some extent - most lords from FE 1-5 don't have much to set themselves apart from each other. However, most Lords from after FE6 usually have something to set themselves apart.

I am willing to admit I am fairly ignorant when it comes to Fire Emblem. I think Marth & Roy were too similar in Melee, but Marth & Ike in Brawl was a step in the right direction toward differentiation. I saw that Micaiah uses magic, so I felt as though she'd be different.

I just want sword users to be somewhat different from each other. I know they can't be completely unique, but enough that it doesn't feel almost the same playing as them. Same with ray gun users (Fox, Falco, Wolf).

Regardless, there are alot of series out there that warrant some representation, it's just challenging who gets the honor of playability, who gets assist trophy, boss, trophy/sticker, a stage, item, etc.

 

[MasterMushroom]

This thread topic was a bad idea to begin with

 

[---]

This thread topic was a bad idea to begin with

THANK YOU. I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to say it. It's not a bad topic, just one that could be taken elsewhere or be pretty much solved by common sense/looking at some old Sakurai interviews. I think our good friend Metal Overlord gave a good summary of representation on the first page.

 

[grizby2]

id rather see a roster with more franchises than one based on popular franchises getting more reps just because their franchise is huge.

smash should be about seeing the different characters in the nintendo world.

 

[Big-Cat]

Same with ray gun users (Fox, Falco, Wolf).

This isn't directed towards you, but I REALLY hate when people try to use these kind of things as describing a fighting style. It's like when I saw someone suggesting Kumatora for a gloves based moveset and I couldn't believe how stupid it was to make that kind of statement. Not only is it making things way too simplistic, but it tells the reader NOTHING of how they'd play.

On the topic of representation, I think it's a silly thing to discuss. If you can have three or four characters from a very small series, with all providing unique playstyles in Smash, I say let them in. It's more than just popularity. This is why the Starfox series has the potential to have four characters, if only they further diversify Fox, Falco, and Wolf (not that hard for Wolf). The same goes for Earthbound as Claus, Kumatora, and Poo can all provide something different.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The biggest problems I have with the whole series representation thing is that it seems like people only argue it to satisfy some sort of abstract idea they have about the roster

I don't really care who gets in as long as they aren't just completely unnecessary and flat out dumb choices (like putting in Goomba as a character or something), I just want my characters to all feel and play unique, and also be fun to play as. I mean, y'all feel me? You can argue all you want about how this character is or isn't "deserving", or how this one would be a "better" choice; at the end of the day, if said character actually gets into Smash, are they going to really add more to Smash or do they simply fill all the criteria that people seem to have for new characters in Smash? I think that's some of the things we should all be asking

Not to mention, not everyone will be pleased. It is why most of the time we tend to have choices for the roster done in the way what Metal said above rather than representation.

I know Smash Bros might feel like a popularity contest but maybe it's because people take it so much as "what Nintendo's corely" about, and that is think all the roster characters represent Nintendo the best way possible. It's showing around the media a lot this way as well. (IGN, Nintendo's way of marketing series mostly by how they appeared in Smash Bros)
To some degree you might assume so because some character choices were done for those reasons (R.O.B, G&W), but on the other hand, there seems to be assumption which takes it too far nowadays (fandom pressure perhaps because the ones in the roster are featured like, EVERYWHERE we see Smash Bros being around at and people never take notice upon the other franchises or characters you want to be represented which you like UNTIL they're included in Smash Bros.)

I admit I have been one under (and maybe I still am but I think I try to shove it off for good now because it's ruining my hype towards Smash 4 even more). But I think maybe it's better for us to settle down and try to forget about the representation because if anything, I think it's just one of the parts that consists some franchise to be featured, not the whole.

Shortly: representation's something we shouldn't get serious about, it'll be hard to please people based on this and Smash Bros being thought running "under it" has been took too seriously on that, forgetting why some characters made it in despite them feeling "undeserving".

 

[MasterMushroom]

The biggest problems I have with the whole series representation thing is that it seems like people only argue it to satisfy some sort of abstract idea they have about the roster

I don't really care who gets in as long as they aren't just completely unnecessary and flat out dumb choices (like putting in Goomba as a character or something), I just want my characters to all feel and play unique, and also be fun to play as. I mean, y'all feel me? You can argue all you want about how this character is or isn't "deserving", or how this one would be a "better" choice; at the end of the day, if said character actually gets into Smash, are they going to really add more to Smash or do they simply fill all the criteria that people seem to have for new characters in Smash? I think that's some of the things we should all be asking

Not to mention, not everyone will be pleased. It is why most of the time we tend to have choices for the roster done in the way what Metal said above rather than representation.

I know Smash Bros might feel like a popularity contest but maybe it's because people take it so much as "what Nintendo's corely" about, and that is think all the roster characters represent Nintendo the best way possible. It's showing around the media a lot this way as well. (IGN, Nintendo's way of marketing series mostly by how they appeared in Smash Bros)
To some degree you might assume so because some character choices were done for those reasons (R.O.B, G&W), but on the other hand, there seems to be assumption which takes it too far nowadays (fandom pressure perhaps because the ones in the roster are featured like, EVERYWHERE we see Smash Bros being around at and people never take notice upon the other franchises or characters you want to be represented which you like UNTIL they're included in Smash Bros.)

I admit I have been one under (and maybe I still am but I think I try to shove it off for good now because it's ruining my hype towards Smash 4 even more). But I think maybe it's better for us to settle down and try to forget about the representation because if anything, I think it's just one of the parts that consists some franchise to be featured, not the whole.

Shortly: representation's something we shouldn't get serious about, it'll be hard to please people based on this and Smash Bros being thought running "under it" has been took too seriously on that, forgetting why some characters made it in despite them feeling "undeserving".

THANK YOU. I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to say it. It's not a bad topic, just one that could be taken elsewhere or be pretty much solved by common sense/looking at some old Sakurai interviews. I think our good friend Metal Overlord gave a good summary of representation on the first page.

QFT for you 3. Not only that, but this "specific" type of discussion is bound to lead to some nasty clashes over something so trivial and unpredictable. This isn't like discussing a particular character; where some are free to refuse to browse a specific character support thread (or give their one-shot input in one and leave). No matter how many of us wear our "sakurai caps" and butt heads against each other over this specific issue as if our opinion is fact (or even worth 2 scraps); we won't come anywhere close to predicting the EXACT "series representation" numbers. That in itself is entirely up in the air Vs something like predicting specific characters in which we have a 50/50 shot at being right or wrong

And as you said, this could be solved by looking at the old Sakurai Interviews/Journals/entries/etc etc.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Series I hope will get new characters:

Donkey Kong (King K.Rool & Dixie Kong)
Fire Emblem (Chrom / Lucina, maybe Roy and KEEP IKE PLEASE)
Zelda (Impa)
Pokemon (Mewtwo, not interested in anything else)
F Zero (if only to balance out a little better, never played F Zero)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Needs more Murasame Castle and F-Zero. Nuff said!

 

[dezeray112]

Super Mario: Not too sure whether it will get any newcomers.
Legend of Zelda: I think for a newcomer they may probably go for Ghirahim.
Donkey Kong: King K Rool
Pokemon: I would like either Genesect, Meloetta or a new Pokemon Tranier.
Kirby: Don't really know if there will be any newcomers from the Kirby series.
Metroid: Not sure about any newcomers for Metroid. Although I'm interested to see which ones will be the newcomers of the franchise.
Fire Emblem: I think either Chrom or Lyn will be the newcomer candidates.
Star Fox: Maybe Krystal. Although I think Starfox are pretty much fine with Fox, Falco & Wolf.
Yoshi: I don't think there will be any newcomers from the Yoshi series.
Wario: Again, I'm not too sure whether the Wario series will get any newcomers.
Pikmin: Not likely to have any newcomers.
Kid Icarus: I think Palutena seems to be the likely newcomer candidate from the series.
Mother: I don't think there will be any Earthbound newcomers.
F-Zero: If they do add another F-Zero rep (which I'm hoping for), either Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow gets the newcomer spot.
Retro: I think Takamaru and maybe Balloon Fighter for the retro reps.
Third Party: Probably Megaman from Capcom and either Lloyd Irving of the Tales series or Pac-Man from the Namco Bandai franchise.
Others: I would say Little Mac and Isaac will get in.

 

[Aipom]

Really, I want to see some new series representatives in this game. It could really help out some series that could use a boost in popularity, are near death, or are already dead.

 

[Dark Phazon]

im tryna look at it from sakuras point of view.. i dont think many new chars will actually be added.. i think 39-42 chars in total smash4 will have.. instead by re-inventing the old chars moves to make every char feel fresh and new to revive the series and bring new feel to it.

crazy huh? dont hate me im trying to think of what sakura said and would do/mean when he said these kinda stuff.

because face it hate it or love it (i hate it..) sakura is still the lead boss in charge namco are there for just new ideas revamping movesets and creating new fresh feel depth in the chars and balance but everything must go through sakura..

think of all your most wanted smash 4 chars as figurines and your in a airport all the figurines are placed in a suitcase some have peices of metal hidden in them no one knows which ones though... and mr sakura is a metal detector and the plane is your house.. the figurines=smash4 need to go through the metal detector=mr sakura then it will reach the plane=your House.

all these titled threads of 'smash4 most wanted list' should all be re-named 'what do you think sakuras goal/mindset is on smash4' and try to figure out as accuratly as possible what he means/wants in smash4 by evaluating his articles/interviews about smash4.

you could use past smash games to see his sight on melee and brawl but..seems like it wont help much because hes alwayz changing his mind making games different he said no smash will be identical to another there all MEANT to be different to each other.

sure its fun as hell joining kirby in dreamland as we over speculate about wishlists we all praticly already queing up for the hype train at sakura station.. but tge train is not due untill i think 2013 Xmas/2014 Summer.

i dont want to sound like a ******* hurtfull guy i applaud all of your thoughts love tears sweat but im a straight up guy i take in truth more then hope its what matters at the end of the day.

i just honestlt hope its better then brawl..thats my hope..i know/dont expect it to be OVERALL better then melee i do think it will be better then melee in someways but not overall..but plz ir has to demolish the atrocious brawl...

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

Don't really care to debate who is and isn't returning.
So for new representation:

Super Mario: 1 new. Bowser jr (paper mario, or waluigi...eh)
Legend of Zelda: 1-2 Vaati/skull kid/toon zelda (toon zelda for obvious reasons. Vaati for appearing more than once, skull kid for possible majora remake)
Donkey Kong: 1, king k rool
Pokemon: 2-3, mewtwo returns, zoroark for new gen rep, meowth considered for the first game and still an icon pokemon.
Kirby: No new characters.
Metroid: 0-1, ridley if they try, if not ridley returns as a boss.
Fire Emblem: 1, that one new lord in the 3ds game, or lyndis... or another character...only played the first game. Too lazy to look up the character names.
Star Fox: None.
Yoshi: None.
Wario: None.
Pikmin: None.
Kid Icarus: 1-2 palutena, medusa/hades. (palutena a given. I believe sakurai will try to get 2 characters in since it was his last project. Toss up for medusa and hades. I think medusa will make it despite her role. Either way, I think one of them will be a boss in story mode. Dark pit will still be a costume. Viridi, magnus will be assist trophies.)

Mother: 1, Porky, masked man, or kumatora (you guys keep arguing it doesn't deserve another rep, but you're forgetting that it doesn't matter. Brawl had four bosses from nintendo games. Ridley from metroid, Porky from mother, rayquaza from pokemon, and petey piranha. Out of all the franchises they chose porky. They obviously love the series)
F-Zero: None.
Retro: 2-3 Takamaru seems like a given, balloon fighter...Sheriff? I dunno. Maybe lip, or donkey kong jr... who knows.
Third Party: Mega man, pac man, geno/black mage some square enix character.

 

[Dynamo68]

If a new Kirby character gets in, i think it should be Knuckle Joe. As for DK, i hope for King K. Rool.

 

[Dark Phazon]

What Gets me is everyone thinking that 50 Will be the cap for characters..
dont get me wrong i would loveee 50 Characters but 50 is AloT!

And going with what Sakurai said about not over doing the Roster i think 43-45 Sounds ''Realistic'' All Chars are getting Re-Vamped movesets and because of this i gotta strange feeling if anyone will get replaced it is only Ice Climbers and Lucario. Lucario i am certain will be replaced no doubt.

Thus needing like only 10 more chars and the Roster will feel complete i feel like Sm4sh will tie the knot and complete the roster instead of keep replacing/scrapping multiple chars.

Although it would make unlocking chars boring then the past Smashe's..because not many new chars just loads of past characters mostly that is...

Look at my theory and you gotta admit it looks roster complete.

[Keep in mind this is all add-ons from brawl no one Replaced except Lucario and Ice Climbers.]

So Brawl Complete Roster =35 -2 (Lucario and Ice Cilmbers)

So we count on from 33.

Mario Series: (0)
DK: (1) Dixie/K.Rool
Zelda: (1) Ghiliran (whatev
Mother: (0) I Hope..
Starfox: (1) Krystal
Kid Icarus: (1) For Sure..
Kirby: (1) For SUREE..
Metroid: (1) Or Else!!!!!!!!
F-Zero: (1)
Fire Emblem: (1)
Retro: (1)
Pikmin: (0)
3rd Party: (1)
Pokemon: (1) Zoroak or Deoxys and Mewtwo Returns/ PKMN Trainer different gen and startes.

This is how i think its gonna be. I maybe wrong with the replacing thing and maybe more characters do get replaced for more newcomers but my main point is that i strongly think the roster wont exceed 45 chars.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Its True though this thread is gonna turn into Everyone just shoe-horning pushing there fav char through the Sm4sh door..

Tbh its the truth everyone will be happy if there fav char or 2 get in and proberly wont give a damn about who else makes it or not as long as there satisfied that there char made it in. But thats the problem..not everyone's fav char will get in..and thats were all this arguing/fanboy rage/hate comes from everyone sorry to say hate it or like it..but we all know its a big competition..

Expecially when we have been told that the roster wont expand as much as the previous Smash installments did this time round..


And i aint gonna lie or sugar coat it..im pretty much the same..

Namely:

Mewtwo
King K.Rool
Ridley

If 2 outta 3 of those above chars make it in i will be happy..hell i could even live with just one of them getting in..

But its getting to the point were all this fanboyism/specualtions/rumors on newcomers is making me sick..and pretty much making me feel like i dont give a damn who gets in or not.

As long as the game is better then brawl defenetly and has better online then brawl...because we all know thats whats truly important.

Above all for what its worth...

''Good Luck to You All...''

 

[Moon Monkey]

Mario Series: None. Mario, Luigi, Bowser and Peach are good enough.
DK: (2) King K. Rool and Dixie Kong Would round out this series.
Zelda: (1) Unless they really incorporate moves from the Toon Link games (eg Windwaker, Phantom hourglass...) I would take Ghirahim over Toon Link any day
Mother: (0) Just for the love of smash, make Ness and Lucas utilize different moves from their games they really don't need to share the same special moves.
Starfox: (1) Krystal
Kid Icarus: (2) If Palutena is in, change Pit's Final Smash. Magnus could be but I doubt it.
Kirby: None.
Metroid: (1) Ridley. For seriously.
F-Zero: (2) Samurai Goroh Seems plausible and most likely be the only addition I would like to see Black Bull
Fire Emblem: (2) Bring back Roy and add Michiah
Retro: (1) Little Mac would be nice
Pikmin: None
3rd Party: (3) I got a feeling Pacman gonna be and possibly a Tales charater. And have hopes of Megaman joining the fray.
Pokemon: (1) Zoroak/Lucario/Mewtwo

 

[kikaru]

I'm not concerned about overall series representation but I personally do not want the Big 3 (Mario/Zelda/Pokemon) to get 5 slots of characters in the next game. Replacements will be fine, but if they added a fifth character to each series then that severely limits the addition of other great potential characters/series. And in this case either more cuts have to be made to make room for said potential characters or the roster is hardly going to change in terms of series representation.

If the Big 3 each received an entirely new character without cuts, and assuming the two most popular characters (King K. and Ridley) become playable, on top of Sakurai mentioning that the roster won't expand much, then there's your roster right there. Even with cuts we'll see two entirely new series at best as opposed to the six we've seen from the transition from Melee to Brawl.

Mario: (0) None
Zelda: (-1 and +1) Replacement for Link Clone. Personally I prefer Masked Link.
Donkey Kong: (+1) King. K Rool without a doubt.
Mother: (-1 or 0) Personally was not a big fan of Lucas. If they absolutely HAD to make a cut he would be on the top of my list.
Starfox: (-1 or 0) Vary Wolf's moveset more or give him the boot. I really want him to stay but currently he doesn't feel unique enough to completely differentiate between Falco and Fox.
Kid Icarus: (0) While Palutena would be a cool character to have I feel there are more deserving.
Metroid: (+1) Ridley.
Retro: (0 or +1) I'm giving this to Little Mac if an additional (Nintendo) Retro character is included.
Pikmin: (0) Is there even a viable option?
Fire Emblem: (0 or +1) 95% sure Marth and Ike will stay. IF the newest Fire Emblem becomes huge then there's the possibility of adding Chrom/Krom.
Pokemon: (-4 or -1 and +4) Drop Lucario and replace him with either Zoroark or Victini. Possibly change Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon.
Kirby: (0) More deserving characters.
F-Zero: (0)
Wario: (0)
Yoshi: (0)
Sonic: (0)
Metal Gear: (0)
New/3rd Party: (+4) My votes go for Megaman, Isaac, Shulk, and Lloyd Irving. Honestly I would've put down +2 giving it to Megaman and Isaac, however, seeing the rising popularity of Xenoblade made Shulk an actual possibility. Furthermore, if a character from Namco Bandai gets in my vote would go to Lloyd Irving. Though he isn't as well recognized as Pac Man I believe that Lloyd will be much better received than Pac Man. (after looking at the pairing of Pac Man with Bad Box Art Megama in Tekken x Capcom)

Another interesting thing that I was thinking about was the addition of characters like Dixie Kong, Lyndis, a female Pokemon Trainer, and Dr. Mario. But instead of having them take an entire slot they could simply share a slot with their counterparts. This builds off the idea of Wario having an alternate costume. They would work exactly like their counterparts and would also work like an alternate costume but better. This would definitely increase series representation without expanding the roster. Just a thought.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not concerned about overall series representation but I personally do not want the Big 3 (Mario/Zelda/Pokemon) to get 5 slots of characters in the next game. Replacements will be fine, but if they added a fifth character to each series then that severely limits the addition of other great potential characters/series. And in this case either more cuts have to be made to make room for said potential characters or the roster is hardly going to change in terms of series representation.

While it's true that sales don't directly affect the amount of characters each series get, for the most part the more the series has sold the larger it is, and therefore the more characters it warrants when compared to other series. It would be entirely fair if each of the Big 3 did get a new character, in reality they make up about like 85% of the actual total sales of all the Nintendo series in Smash combined. It would horribly unbalanced, but technically if the Big 3 made up 85% of the roster it would be justified. 15 hypothetical characters total out of the entire roster isn't that bad for the three biggest Nintendo series.

While maybe not overly likely for Zelda (still possible though), it's pretty likely and very likely for Mario and Pokemon to get a fifth rep, respectively. It's safe to assume Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and some form of the Trainer won't be going anywhere, with a combination of two from Mewtwo/Lucario/5th gen to make up the fourth and fifth rep. Considering Mario also has Toad, Bowser Jr, Waluigi, and Paper Mario vying for the fifth spot (and they really all do merit inclusion), it's entirely probable one will make it in as the fifth Mario character. Hell, Mario already has had five characters, in Melee, and then there were only 25/26 characters.

If the Big 3 each received an entirely new character without cuts, and assuming the two most popular characters (King K. and Ridley) become playable, on top of Sakurai mentioning that the roster won't expand much, then there's your roster right there. Even with cuts we'll see two entirely new series at best as opposed to the six we've seen from the transition from Melee to Brawl.

Even if Sakurai is cutting down the number of additions, only having five newcomers would be ridiculous. Expect more than that.

Also, maybe we won't reach six new series included this time, but I wouldn't say it'd be impossible, and we'll definitely see more than two. Even just adding Little Mac, a retro character (probably Takamaru) and Mega Man would make it more than two. Throw in an obscure/historical Nintendo character, one or two from among Mii/Shulk/Isaac/Saki/Starfy/etc., and maybe even another third party, and we could very easily see six new series again.

EDIT: See, even you have five new series added. Though Little Mac most likely won't count as a retro, especially since Sakurai said the retro he's thinking of has yet to be "revived", unlike Little Mac.
Also, Lucas isn't going to be cut. Chances are Wolf won't be either.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Here's how i see it.... from 35 on.

Mario Series: (1 tops) 1 of The 4 as I like to call them if any
DK: (1 or 2) K. Rool and/or Dixie
Zelda: (1) Ghirahim
Metroid: (1) Ridley
Starfox: (1 maybe) Krystal if anyone
Kirby: (0) They don't need more, if any waddle dee
F-Zero: (1 tops) Goroh or Black Shadow, maybe neither
Fire Emblem: (1 or 2) deifnately Roy, Chrom is possible
Kid Icarus: (1) I'm thinking Palutena is very likely now
New IPs: (3 - 5) Shulk, little mac, Isaac, possibley Saki and Dillon
Retro: (1) Takamaru maybe another
3rd Party: (1) Megaman, possible a second? I'm thinking Lloyd
Pokemon: (1 or 2) Mewtwo, Zoroark is also possible.

That's how I see it.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Makes me happy to see people posting more realistic roster specualtions after my big post. xD hehehe

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You can't make me post a realistic roster speculation, even if you posted a page long post

 

[kikaru]

EDIT: See, even you have five new series added. Though Little Mac most likely won't count as a retro, especially since Sakurai said the retro he's thinking of has yet to be "revived", unlike Little Mac.
Also, Lucas isn't going to be cut. Chances are Wolf won't be either.

Yes, I added these characters under the assumption that the roster will expand to 40 and that Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda will not get 5th slots. The point I'm making is that for each 5th slot these series receive the chances of other characters such as Isaac, Shulk, and many other potential characters/series are hampered which in turn would make me sad.

As far as cuts go I would definitely like to hear opinions as my current roster of 40 is also balanced around who is getting cut/replaced. In my opinion it would be very unlikely if no cuts and only replacements were made. The decision of who I personally cut from the list is based on:

Characters who have appeared in two or more games are permanent.
Clones have higher chances to get cut though unique characters are still in some danger. (Take Mewtwo for example)

This leaves Olimar, ROB, Lucas, Snake, Sonic, Pit, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Wolf, Wario, Diddy Kong, Toon Link, Ike, Metaknight, and King Dedede.

--------------
Olimar: He's one of the newest original IPs that made it into Brawl. He's safe.

ROB: I feel like he was well received, he is also unique in his moveset and that he's a robot. Safe.

Snake: Super Smash has its own sort of goofiness that everyone can appreciate. Snake definitely contributed to that in a healthy way via his codecs and how he was introduced in the trailer. I want to say he is safe.

Sonic: Least likely to get cut in my opinion as he was the most demanded character for Brawl.

Pit: With the new Kid Icarus: Uprising he's not going anywhere.

Wario: Popular, well received, and fits in Smash perfectly. Safe.

Diddy Kong: Definitely helped the under-represented Donkey Kong series, even with the inclusion of King. K. Rool I feel that Diddy Kong wouldn't 'over-represent' the series.

Ike: He's been the main protagonist in the newest console-based Fire Emblem games. I was honestly pissed when I heard Roy was cut but honestly after some warming up I like Ike better. Safe.

Metaknight and King Dedede: For the same reasons as Wario I feel that they are safe.

------------------
Lucario: He has a chance to be replaced by Mewtwo or a 5th gen Pokemon though I would give it to the latter.

Pokemon Trainer: I feel that him and his Pokemon could use some adjustments. First of all I think we should have the option of switching between a male or female Pokemon Trainer. With strong personal bias I feel that generations 2-4 need some form of representation on the roster. (Piplup, Bayleef, Blaziken) Probably won't happen but hey, I can hope right

Toon Link: Toon Link made it in due to the popularity of Wind Waker. (Don't know how much Phantom Hourglass contributed to that but oh well.) Afterwards he's only appeared in Spirit Tracks. Time to let this guy go just like the last Link clone unless Nintendo pops up with another successful game featuring him.

-------------------
Then there's Wolf and Lucas whom I've already stated my reasons for either including or removing. So I guess my next question: is are there going to even be any cuts to the Brawl roster, and if so who would it be and why?

 

[Hypercat-Z]

You can't make me post a realistic roster speculation, even if you posted a page long post

I think you are right. When the true roster will come out there will be surely some unexpected chars that will make the public go WTF.
Tell me if there was anyone expecting Mr. Game & Watch before Melee and if there was anyone expecting R.O.B. before Brawl.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Thats why in my post i just stated how many newcomers would come for each series and didnt throw that many names about..because who knows who they will put in..there are gonna be 1 or 2 WTF!!! chars for sure.

I only named a few chars of the series i thought that if get another rep for sure it will be

Ridley
Zoroak
Krystal

Also there needs to be/please be 2 blow away chars. Chars that will put Joker face smiles on peoples faces Like Sonic and Snake did in Brawl. Despite now being predicted due to being long over due and fed up.

Yes im talking about you Megaman! Although i have never played any Megaman games ever..I do resepect him and would loveeee to see him in Sm4sh because i know it would make loadsssss of people happy he
is proberly the most deserving char then anyone else.
Also Samus Vs. Megaman..like that aint a dream match made in heaven Like Mario Vs. Sonic.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Also..in a Rumor i read..There wont be any F-Zero or Mother Chars..

I Read alotta rumors because i cant help it but i dont/wont post them anywhere on these boards.. just will cause hate directed to me i could imagine too..

 

[Reyson]

Also..in a Rumor i read..There wont be any F-Zero or Mother Chars..

I Read alotta rumors because i cant help it but i dont/wont post them anywhere on these boards.. just will cause hate directed to me i could imagine too..

Hardly a rumor, it's speculation based on the fact that Earthbound is already overrepresented when compared to other games(2 chars for a 'series' that never got a full international release) and F-Zero lacks recognisable characters and hasn't had a game since the GC. I personally wouldn't mind Samurai Goroh, I do think he's unlikely to get in the game.

I find it a bit strange to see Ghirahim on many people's list when we don't even know if he's a one-shot villain or not. While removing Young/Toon Link is understandable since he's one of the last "clones" left, I think there's still a lot of interesting potential that is wasted on that character. From Minish Cap to Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords, there's so much moveset potential for a younger Link to be unique.

 

[kikaru]

Hardly a rumor, it's speculation based on the fact that Earthbound is already overrepresented when compared to other games(2 chars for a 'series' that never got a full international release) and F-Zero lacks recognisable characters and hasn't had a game since the GC. I personally wouldn't mind Samurai Goroh, I do think he's unlikely to get in the game.

I find it a bit strange to see Ghirahim on many people's list when we don't even know if he's a one-shot villain or not. While removing Young/Toon Link is understandable since he's one of the last "clones" left, I think there's still a lot of interesting potential that is wasted on that character. From Minish Cap to Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords, there's so much moveset potential for a younger Link to be unique.

Toon Link definitely had and still has a lot of potential to change. The Gust Jar and the Deku Leaf for example are perfectly viable weapons for him to use. If we assume another Link clone then people will resort to finding replacement characters such as Ghirahim. Personally I fancy the idea of having Masked Link instead. Although it is far less likely I feel that it would bring more depth and quality than Ghirahim would bring.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Something tells me they will still be some sorta 2nd Link.

I really think they should buff zelda and replace sheik for Skull Kid.

There was a massive pole on a smash website and the winner of that pole was promised to be tweeted to sakurai and skull kid won that poll.

If sheik can still stay since ocarina then she should be replaced by skull kid he has much
more fans too. and that brawl hack of him playable using his final smash to bloody crash a moon on the guy!

Holy crap..and this coming from a guy who doesnt play zelda at all ever..

I just think he awsome char

Link
Zelda (buffed)
Skull Kid
Link Variation (heavily changed)
Ganondorf (HEAVILY!!! changed)

Is LoZ complete imo.

I personally think the game/roster can/should be complete without adding 50 chars max it doesnt need it.

What it needs the most is re-vamped movesets huge changes then no one would complain except mindless trolls.

PS: I dont think its a too out the blue thought of Skull Kid being a char in the 3DS version maybe to secretly hint/tribute to Major's Mask Remake for 3DS? Could happen...

 

[Dark Phazon]

Also imo (3) is a nice round fair number for 3rd party it should look like this be perfect

Sonic
Megaman
Pacman

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Sonic, Megaman and Pacman would be a nice rounded 3rd party roster

In terms of historical importance/ popularity

 

[Dark Phazon]

I Think its perfect! i dunno why people hate sonic..its like they cant like sonic and mario..seriously worse stuck up fanboy..

I would be upset if sonic s not in i aint gonna lie.

Mario Vs. Sonic
Megaman Vs Samus
= Dream matches
Sm4sh = Dream game.

Anythings possible in Sm4sh.

The most iconic/popular They should feed of what Sonic did to Brawl.

And imho Megaman is no doubt the next Sonic hype. And Pacman for tribute.

People seeing Megaman be like Zomfgg!! but Sigh..that means pacman not in..no one would really expect both megaman and pacman in but its possible and i dont see why not

3 Slots and them 3 no more no less Perfect!

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Something tells me they will still be some sorta 2nd Link.

I really think they should buff zelda and replace sheik for Skull Kid.

There was a massive pole on a smash website and the winner of that pole was promised to be tweeted to sakurai and skull kid won that poll.

If sheik can still stay since ocarina then she should be replaced by skull kid he has much
more fans too. and that brawl hack of him playable using his final smash to bloody crash a moon on the guy!

Holy crap..and this coming from a guy who doesnt play zelda at all ever..

I just think he awsome char

Link
Zelda (buffed)
Skull Kid
Link Variation (heavily changed)
Ganondorf (HEAVILY!!! changed)

Is LoZ complete imo.

I personally think the game/roster can/should be complete without adding 50 chars max it doesnt need it.

What it needs the most is re-vamped movesets huge changes then no one would complain except mindless trolls.

PS: I dont think its a too out the blue thought of Skull Kid being a char in the 3DS version maybe to secretly hint/tribute to Major's Mask Remake for 3DS? Could happen...

I know the poll you're talking about. It was plagued by bots and joke voters. Hopefully nobody takes the results seriously.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Oww...
Hey guys i wanna read sakurais twiiter but its all in JPN.. i know i could read it for hours but..twitter translate says.

''Translate into'' And theres bloody all the languages in the world except english..help plz and wtfffff!!!!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah. that wasn't an accurate poll.

It was horribly rigged with bots, etc.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The poll didn't mean jack anyway, so there is hardly any worry.

 

[Opossum]

The results weren't even sent. It was literally a random tweet by the owner saying who won, not the whole result. It meant absolutely nothing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Skull Kid WOULD be much better than Sheik though. Think about it, if Skull Kid would've gotten in Melee, we didn't have need of a character in Brawl with an unused model from a scrapped role. :/ As Skull Kid also appeared in Twilight Princess. Sure, not the biggest or best role, but unlike a certain one-off, he at least was there.

He also had a more influential role, appeared in both OoT and Majora's Mask. And would make as an awesome villain for Young Link. Just think of how awesome it would be to have Link vs Ganondorf vs Young Link vs Skull Kid. And Zelda would still be there, with an actual down B.

But yeah, guess it's too late for him now. But damn, would he be cool.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I think he has rather a decent chance actually to make it into atleast one of the new Smashes.

I dont even play Zelda and i think hes very cool char. He be dropping moons on guys! AHHHH loool.

They really need to sort out Ganondorf though...his moveset needs the most work out of everyone...