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Official Sea Chart - Toon Link Stage Research Thread

D

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So from what I've read here, is this correct for Toon's optimal stage?: 1) Platforms for safer landings, camping, sharking, etc. 2) mid height ceiling so Toon can KO with u-air but also not get KOed as early due to his light weight? Mainly, I'm having issues deciding which ceilings are really best for TL, or if the ceiling even matters as much as platforms do.
Yeah low ceilings can kind of suck for us because of Gay's lightness, but they can also be great since two of his best kill moves (uair and usmash; uair more than usmash) kill even earlier on stages with low ceilings. With customs, mainly short-fuse bombs and fire arrows paired with the flying spin attack (fire arrow>FSA combo), low ceilings become fantastic for us because Gay can capitalize on the low ceiling very well, helping quite a bit with difficulty killing.
 
D

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Anyone have any thoughts on the new stages, Miiverse and Dreamland?

Personally I'm loving Dreamland. It has a lot of the benefits of BF but is easier to circle camp, and gives more room to run away from characters that normally give us no breathing room. I've found camping with fire arrows and short-fuse bombs to be amazing on DL, too. I've found sf bomb>uair to kill ridiculously early when you're on the top platform and the bomb hits an opponent below you.

Miiverse, on the other hand... Ugh, not liking this stage anywhere near as much as I thought I would. The platforms feel way too long (like, I'm pretty sure they are larger than BF's, but haven't checked), which messes us up at the start of the match if you're using fire arrows since you can't just put an uncharged arrow on the ground since it'll stay on the platform if it's uncharged. Platform camping also seems a lot harder because of the longer platforms since it's more area we have to cover when landing on one. The SV-like bottom is annoying as well, so it's not as easy for our upb to slope up like on BF.

Personally I think BF and DH are still our best stages, with DL as a close third. What about you guys, what do you think?
 
D

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Anyone know if the issue with the tether randomly failing on Lylat was ever patched out? Haven't had it happen to me in a few months, but I've also played on that stage only a few times in the past few months, so maybe I was just lucky those times or something.
 

Lucy_ya dawg

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The platform affords you the opportunity to camp without having to move yourself. Viable strategy. Just oppress them then backthrow. Of course i'm morphing my game into a mix between aggro and camp (dat hyro+mjg). You know anyone that camps aggressively?

edit" sprinkled with jash tech, jerms spacing +swordsmanship and that shadow1pj randomly being better than everyone factor lol
 
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CURRY

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;______;
You know that crack in between the platforms of BF that you can throw a bomb down through? Miiverse's platforms are too long for that.
Yep.
 
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HeroOfWinds

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Battlefield gives the larger boundaries to prevent Toon getting killed early and uair is godlike for sharking on this stage, especially when random bombs and rangs cause missed techs on platforms. Plus the platforms give a great mindgame opportunity with bombs. Shield with a bomb on a platform, cancel shield and fall through platform and flick c-stick to instantly throw bomb under platform either left or right. proceed with the punish of your choice
 

Halfy

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If you zair at the exact height so that it would go through a platform, your zair bounces off the side of the platform, which is useless and puts you into some lag. It can also be seen if you tether the edge three times then try to tether again while very close to it.
 

Halfy

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I may have worded this wrong. This happens above the main platform of a stage, at the same height as a smaller, intangible platform such as the side ones on battlefield. The zair has the same effect as the failed tether except the intent of the player was not to recover, but to damage the opponent with zair. The effect is similar to the effect of a failed tether in the specific situation in which you have already tethered the edge 3 times without landing onstage. The zair does not reach to its normal range, it instead stops at the edge of the platform. Of course, some stages are more prone to this happening, for example this cannot happen at all on FD but is of concern when playing on battlefield.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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I may have worded this wrong. This happens above the main platform of a stage, at the same height as a smaller, intangible platform such as the side ones on battlefield. The zair has the same effect as the failed tether except the intent of the player was not to recover, but to damage the opponent with zair. The effect is similar to the effect of a failed tether in the specific situation in which you have already tethered the edge 3 times without landing onstage. The zair does not reach to its normal range, it instead stops at the edge of the platform. Of course, some stages are more prone to this happening, for example this cannot happen at all on FD but is of concern when playing on battlefield.
That's quite interesting, though I don't think I've ever seen this before and I'm having a tough time re-creating it, so it must be super precise if true. Do you have a vid/replay I could look at?
 

Halfy

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That's quite interesting, though I don't think I've ever seen this before and I'm having a tough time re-creating it, so it must be super precise if true. Do you have a vid/replay I could look at?
This is an awkward situation... I had a replay where I spent a minute doing this but my disc broke, so I can't upload it until I get a new disc. The way I would do it is I would stand on the main stage of battlefield and slightly to the left, facing left. Just jump and wait for the right height to release the zair. I guess you can test it if you want, or I'll be getting a disc sometime this week so you could just wait for me.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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This is an awkward situation... I had a replay where I spent a minute doing this but my disc broke, so I can't upload it until I get a new disc. The way I would do it is I would stand on the main stage of battlefield and slightly to the left, facing left. Just jump and wait for the right height to release the zair. I guess you can test it if you want, or I'll be getting a disc sometime this week so you could just wait for me.
I might just wait. I'm obviously not standing in just the right place. I can manually adjust which specific frame I use Zair, but if I'm not standing in the right spot in the first place, it won't work.
 

Halfy

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So i got my new disc.

Huh. Now I'm having trouble with finding the right spot. I definitely know it happened , you probably just have to be a very specific distance from the platform is all.
 

Moobussir

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I have a question about Duck Hunt and Lylat, since my local tourney is looking to legalize both as counterpicks. Duck Hunt looks to be a good stage, but I wonder about how much of an interference the ducks and the dog might be. I can imagine bombing the ducks and surprising my opponent with the explosion as a cool trick, but if boomerangs get stopped, that's something scary for me.

On the other hand, the bit about Lylat's faulty tether grab scares me. I like to jump off stage just a bit, then use the tether to quickly pull myself up to mindgame my opponent and sneak in more attacks. Do tethers close to the stage work when it angles, or does it just fail when you're at a distance? (I can't really test this on my own, which is why I ask)
 

Moobussir

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Okay, I went and tried Duck Hunt at my local this week, and I have some comments from my experience. Not sure what has been said before but I'd like to put my own notes as well. (Is there a basic archive of stage notes we can assemble at some point? I think there's one in the matchup thread, but some notes for stages in general would be nice too)

Overall, I think it's a great Toon Link stage, but I personally feel I'm not taking full advantage of what the stage offers. Some of the best things the stage has is the wall on the side, for wall jumping (And if you play FG, you get good at wall-jumping), and the low blast barrier on the bottom. I whiffed a hookshot recovery in fast fall once, but I didn't die off the bottom, and ofc the wall makes it easy to come back (Here's that clip so you can see how low I went: https://youtu.be/LTQbdqIxZcc?t=9m22s). I think that low blast barrier can be a huge plus when you need to camp down low since the side barrier are pretty close, and if other's try to wall jump or wall cling, you have bombs to interfere.

The side blast barrier definitely seems close by, but it's not that drastically close either. A lot of moves that should have killed (Our back throw/F-Smash, a large variety of everyone else's moves) didn't kill early like we all might have hoped. (Back throw didn't kill at the ledge at 112%). Not anything good or bad, just important to note.

The ducks can be situationally good or bad. They can sometimes interfere with our projectiles, but they also interfere with your opponents, and I find that even when my projectiles are stopped by a duck, my opponent has been conditioned to not approach anyway, so it's not so bad. One thing I always feel could be really interesting is using a bomb on a duck to have the wide explosion hit your opponent off guard, but it seems too situational to bother trying.

The bush provides an interesting place for us to use as a situational advantage, and I find it to be useful to stay away from others with linear projectiles (Shiek, Greninja, Bowser Jr.), while we bombard from higher ground with bombs/boomerang. The tree is a nice relieve spot, as long as we shield before someone approaches, and we can have interesting shenanigans there too (Like here XD: https://youtu.be/Cv_U5Xlh90o?t=4m26s). In addition, while we can use it to recover situationally, we can also use bombs as a quick projectile to disturb people who think they can recover high safely, as seen a bit later in that clip (4:40, please don't mind my D-air there, I've become too D-air happy recently..) Finally, the dog seems to help more then anything, since it tends to break up the fighting, and you can hold shield on it while it rises, making you almost untouchable. And if your opponent rises, it still reset neutral, which is a good place for us I'd think.

Overall, the stage feels good to use, but I'm definitely not as confident when I pick this stage as I was on Delfino Plaza (And I don't even know why I liked that stage, but I once heard it's a great Toon Link stage as well). Despite that, it's a good stage to pick, but I want to know what others think as well.
 

Trash Boat

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Against rush-down characters like fox or captain falcon, I like to counter-pick FD so they only have two ways to approach us
 

Moobussir

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Against rush-down characters like fox or captain falcon, I like to counter-pick FD so they only have two ways to approach us
I agree, they have very few tricks to get in otherwise, and Smashville gives both of them the advantage of the moving platform, which benefits them way more then it does us. FD is nice for being barren.

Something else I want to mention is that Battlefield and Dream Land can be good stages vs Falcon. Despite the platforms being beneficial to him in many ways, because he's so tall, bombing him from above a platform he's under will connect. It's the most satisfying thing to make them fear you XD.

Vs. Fox I'm not certain if he's tall enough but I will test that one day.
 

SmolFry

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Personally speaking I think:
Smashville is the best stage for TL. You can work a lot of angles with boomerang.
T+C is alright because it's like a cross breed of SV and FD except for the low ceiling.
FD is great but I often see it banned when it comes to striking in tournament because projectile spam is a bit too easy.
BF and Dreamland I don't like because it adds additional terrain to account for when throwing bombs and boomerangs, Dreamland especially because you can get blown off the edge by wispy when trying to dair spike on the ledge, and grass apparently effect JCBT physics.
Personally I just try to avoid Lylat (but not ban it because it's not the worst for us) and
DH is meh.
 
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Moobussir

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Personally speaking I think Smashville is the best stage for TL. You can work a lot of angles with boomerang, T+C is alright because it's like a cross breed of SV and FD except for the low ceiling. FD is great but I often see it banned when it comes to striking in tournament because projectile spam is a bit too easy. BF and Dreamland I don't like because it adds additional terrain to account for when throwing bombs and boomerangs, Dreamland especially because you can get blown off the edge by wispy when trying to dair spike on the ledge, and grass apparently effect JCBT physics. Personally I just try to avoid Lylat (but not ban it because it's not the worst for us) and DH is meh.
Smashville is good but I personally feel like, because it's a good stage for everyone, and everyone is pretty comfortable on it, picking other places can help, especially if you feel the advantage there. I feel fairly comfortable on BF for that reason. Yes, there's more places to account for, but you also have safer ways to use your projectiles (Boomerang angled up on/towards platform) and safer places to go too, like top platform on sharking. Plus, the large blast barriers on the side mean we can live a good long while, and we can make it back without gimp most always.

T&C is the stage I always ban because those close blast zones, not to mention the MUCH larger amount of space you have to account for, which we simply don't have reach for. Up-Air is a good killer and B-throw can work well in some situations but being on the lighter side does not help our survival.

I don't think DL is one of the stages where grass affects us. After all, the ground where characters walk isn't even covered in grass. And it would be infamous if it was known for that. Aside from that, DL has closer blast zones then BF but not by much, so it's risk/reward for us. The wind is very interesting as it more often then not will either assist/mess up your approach, or force you into the corner as your opponent tries to wall you out.

But of course it's all personal preference in the end. I pick Duck Hunt often enough to be known for it, as the walls and the ducks have never harmed me, only helped.
 

MajoraLink100

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Any other stages (besides Arena Ferox) that are bad for TL on the 3ds version?
 

Moobussir

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Any other stages (besides Arena Ferox) that are bad for TL on the 3ds version?
Toon Link traditionally doesn't have a lot of stage trouble. It mostly will come down to comfort. A lot of Tink's don't like Battlefield for example, but it's my favourite stage and comfort pick. It's all just practice after all. Yoshi's can bother you if the platform is not facing your way while you're on it, but that's really about it.
 

MajoraLink100

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Toon Link traditionally doesn't have a lot of stage trouble. It mostly will come down to comfort. A lot of Tink's don't like Battlefield for example, but it's my favourite stage and comfort pick. It's all just practice after all. Yoshi's can bother you if the platform is not facing your way while you're on it, but that's really about it.
Thanks
 

AsrielMemeurr413

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I feel like Battlefield, Smashville, and T&C are good for Toon Link. As a Mid-low level player, I'm not good with z drop bomb to zair combos, but with the platforms, this should be easier than FD. This also gives Toon Link a place to run in danger, and fire uncharged arrows, especially on Smashville. Finally, all these stages give him extra jumps for better aerial combos, and set up bomb re-catch attacks.
 

Lomogoto

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what do you all think about the newly proposed stage list as it pertains to toon link? as detrimental as i think having 4 stages is, i dont think ill miss lylat eating my grounded arrows.
 
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