Official Sea Chart - Toon Link Stage Research Thread

[Jash]

Wanna talk about why X stage is good/bad for Toon Link? Found a cool trick on a stage you wanna share? Discuss those and anything related to Toon Link and stages here!

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know how useful this is (probably not useful at all), but for those who don't know, we can dair off the stage from the top of the tree on Duck Hunt and on one of the stationary side platforms on Kongo Jungle and make it back to the stage. It'd be nice if there were some way this could be useful, though I doubt it since it's too much effort to set up.

Also, from the Skype group:
[5:57:11 PM] ultrament2: I've been thinking about this for quite a while and I believe firmly and surely that The Great Cave Offensive is the absolut best stage for Toon Link : ^)
[7:01:07 PM] theflow: SmashVille is great for toon link, hands down
[7:19:40 PM] Jasudin: ^ Platforms help a lot with camping.
[7:20:19 PM] ultrament2: Smshville and T&C are good, too

 

[Jash]

I think battlefield might be one of toon links best stage, surprisingly toon link does well on platforms due to the range on his aerials. platforms bring a bunch of opportunity to set up traps and keep stage control on lock.

 

[Scamper52596]

I haven't really got the hang of using Toon Link on Battlefield, unfortunately. Sometimes when I throw a bomb, it hits the edge of one of the lower platforms and explodes right in my face.
I greatly enjoy Smashville and Town & City though. They both give Toon Link a little more room to get around.

I don't enjoy fighting on the Omega forms of Mushroom Kingdom U, Yoshi's Island, Windy Hill Zone because I feel that something about the grass physics mess with Toon Links ground mobility. It's a shame too because I love the music on those levels.

 

[Deleted member]

Battlefield is really nice for us in this game. I find myself going there a lot, and could definitely see it being our best stage. All the neutrals seem pretty good for us, though. Except maybe Yoshi's on the 3DS and Lylat. As for Lylat, I hear it's supposed to be a good stage for us but personally I have so much trouble there for some reason, I don't know why. I'd except that with our usmash + good aerials that it would be great for us to shark through the platforms, the tilting to help with JCBT, and our tether to make it so we aren't hurt as badly by the stage tilting when we're trying to recover.

Edit: @ Scamper52596 Yeah the grass mechanics mess with things like our JCBT and other movement techs we have along with just running in general. It's annoying.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I personally don't like Lylat just because the platforms get in the way of our camping, but I'd say it's a solid counter-pick against characters with trash recoveries because our D-smash near the edge becomes a guaranteed first hit only when the stage is tilting.

 

[Zayes Pelekai]

I personally don't like Lylat just because the platforms get in the way of our camping, but I'd say it's a solid counter-pick against characters with trash recoveries because our D-smash near the edge becomes a guaranteed first hit only when the stage is tilting.

honestly i hate lylat as a map but i completely understand what you mean i think my favorite map for toon link might either be smashville or battlefield

Battlefield is really nice for us in this game. I find myself going there a lot, and could definitely see it being our best stage. All the neutrals seem pretty good for us, though. Except maybe Yoshi's on the 3DS and Lylat. As for Lylat, I hear it's supposed to be a good stage for us but personally I have so much trouble there for some reason, I don't know why. I'd except that with our usmash + good aerials that it would be great for us to shark through the platforms, the tilting to help with JCBT, and our tether to make it so we aren't hurt as badly by the stage tilting when we're trying to recover.

Edit: @ Scamper52596 Yeah the grass mechanics mess with things like our JCBT and other movement techs we have along with just running in general. It's annoying.

im kinda new to the smash scene what is JCBT? And i completely understand what you mean by the having trouble on lylat i have the same problem

 

[Jasudin]

honestly i hate lylat as a map but i completely understand what you mean i think my favorite map for toon link might either be smashville or battlefield

im kinda new to the smash scene what is JCBT? And i completely understand what you mean by the having trouble on lylat i have the same problem

JC stands jump cancel and BT stands for bomb toss. You get a (safe as in safer and easier to space than dash bomb throw though dash bomb throw is safer now) slide out of it. The grass mechanics increase traction on things (ex: skid, run, dash, JC moves, etc.).

 

[Zayes Pelekai]

JC stands jump cancel and BT stands for bomb toss. You get a (safe as in safer and easier to space than dash bomb throw though dash bomb throw is safer now) slide out of it. The grass mechanics lower traction on things (ex: skid, run, dash, JC moves, etc.).

Oh ok I have to teach myself that now

 

[ToastMiller]

Isn't that just glide tossing? also wouldn't less traction help you move farther with that?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Isn't that just glide tossing? also wouldn't less traction help you move farther with that?

Glide Tossing is cancelling the initial frames of a roll with an item throw and getting a slide out of it. http://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-dictionary.374538/

 

[ILJ]

I hope everyone knows we can dair on the edge of stages off our tether resulting in possible spikes....I do it all the time, even to pros in my area.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it just me, or does the tether seem to fail a lot on Lylat when the stage is tilting a bunch? I've had it happen to me a bunch of times and none of these reasons for why the tether didn't work didn't apply, meanwhile the tether only very rarely fails like this on other stages. I hope this is just a coincidence since the stage seems nice for putting pressure on an opponent on a platform, plus if this is a coincidence then our tether should make it so we wouldn't get our recovery as messed up as with other characters because of the tilting stage, but I hardly ever play on that stage yet 9 times out of 10 where my tether fails seemingly randomly it's on that stage when it's tilting.

 

[Jash]

we may wanna consider Halberd for some characters, Toon Links up air is really strong so that can lead to some quick kills, however a campy playstyle may not work on this stage due to the small size, played carefully it can really help out.

 

[Seleir]

so guys just say +1 in the stage that are good with toon link, it will be really help me

I think

+1

Battlefield
Smashville
Final destination

i know only this XD

 

[ILJ]

Depends on who your versing....let's say diddy Kong. Avoid battlefield and cling to FD.

 

[Seleir]

avoid the char, just say best stage for TL in general. when he can do his best

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not sure we really have a best stage, though personally I like Duck Hunt. The blast zones make it so much easier for us to kill, camping is easy on that stage, and with how little off-stage space there is we don't get gimped as easily, then we also have the option of walljumping. The only reason I can think of to dislike the stage is the ducks eating our projectiles. There's probably something I'm missing though since all I've heard about the stage from other TL mains is stuff about how they dislike it.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I like taking characters like DK to Duck Hunt because of the janky camera. It makes it more difficult for them to judge where you are off stage which can hurt their gimping ability (in DK's case, Bair).

 

[ILJ]

I think focusing on a good starting stage and counter pick are key for tournament wins.

Starting stage, get used to practicing on battlefield and Smashville - 75% of players will ban FD when they see your using Toon Link. Smashville is the most neutral stage and with characters who have good/fast up airs (rosa, diddy, mario, luigi, capt. falcon,etc.) usually result in me picking smash ville for a starting stage. I like baiting people on the platform once its to the side of the stage,not above it, hoping they hop on it to back throw them to a k.o at mid percents. Make sure to block obviously and wait for them to land on it.

Counterpicks
​

Avoid lylat cruise and halberd IMO because with lylat the recovery is harder to successfully land - so tether. Halberd the ceiling is veryyyy low and TL is light as it is.

Delfino - One really nice trick we can do here is spike through the stage since opponents are able to recovery from beneath it. Ive caught a few notable players with this trick.

Duck Hunt - Good stage for Toon Link, you can camp easily here.

Castle Siege - How good this map is really depends on how familiar you are with it and what form of the stage is taking place. The first form is probably our worst one. The second is okay, though the statues block our projectiles and the third form is FD, which is self- explanatory. Practice on this map a lot because many people do indeed like it.

Town and City - if you are versing a character whose up airs arent so scary then this map is good. The ceiling here is lower then smashville. One up air at high percents will do the jobs.

:]

 

[Deleted member]

I think focusing on a good starting stage and counter pick are key for tournament wins.

Starting stage, get used to practicing on battlefield and Smashville - 75% of players will ban FD when they see your using Toon Link. Smashville is the most neutral stage and with characters who have good/fast up airs (rosa, diddy, mario, luigi, capt. falcon,etc.) usually result in me picking smash ville for a starting stage. I like baiting people on the platform once its to the side of the stage,not above it, hoping they hop on it to back throw them to a k.o at mid percents. Make sure to block obviously and wait for them to land on it.

Counterpicks
​

Avoid lylat cruise and halberd IMO because with lylat the recovery is harder to successfully land - so tether. Halberd the ceiling is veryyyy low and TL is light as it is.

Delfino - One really nice trick we can do here is spike through the stage since opponents are able to recovery from beneath it. Ive caught a few notable players with this trick.

Duck Hunt - Good stage for Toon Link, you can camp easily here.

Castle Siege - How good this map is really depends on how familiar you are with it and what form of the stage is taking place. The first form is probably our worst one. The second is okay, though the statues block our projectiles and the third form is FD, which is self- explanatory. Practice on this map a lot because many people do indeed like it.

Town and City - if you are versing a character whose up airs arent so scary then this map is good. The ceiling here is lower then smashville. One up air at high percents will do the jobs.

:]

It really is funny how people assume FD is some kind of amazing stage for TL or something. Personally it's my least favorite out of SV, BF, and FD, so I love when people waste their strike (or even their ban when it comes to counterpicking; higher likelihood I can take them to Duck Hunt, and definitely SV, BF, and T&C) on it. Imo BF and SV are generally better for us mainly because of platform pressure, it's so much easier to trap the opponents on those stages, and platform camping.

But yeah, a few things to add, though:
I don't know if I've just been unlucky or what, but in my experience our tether is super unreliable on Lylat. It's probably better to use upb to recover and just be more careful with it. As for Castle Siege, it's probably our worst stage on the Wii U. It's too easy for us to get pressured on the first part of the stage, then the statues make life hell for us on the second part. Personally I haven't run into any major issues with the third part (probably because I never play on CS), but the tilting is still annoying and can make it harder to toss projectiles at an opponent by the ledge. Town and City is nice for cicle camping, especially if the opponent doesn't have a uair that can kill or good options to get you off the platforms in general.

 

[Jash]

I think our only dis benefit on Lylat Cruise is the ledge, apparently when the stage is tilting tether does not work all the way until the stage stops tilting which can sometimes be a problem. however there are some perks to the stages tilting, there is a little dent on the stage that cancels out your moves when you stand on it as it is tilting, you can do a grounded up B for example and as soon As the stage tilts it'll return you to your neutral position. personally I like to use dair when im aware the stage will tilt since not only will I be safe thanks to the wind hitbox but also if I hit him with dair I'll be sure to combo with it if my opponent does not tech the dair.

 

[Deleted member]

I think our only dis benefit on Lylat Cruise is the ledge, apparently when the stage is tilting tether does not work all the way until the stage stops tilting which can sometimes be a problem. however there are some perks to the stages tilting, there is a little dent on the stage that cancels out your moves when you stand on it as it is tilting, you can do a grounded up B for example and as soon As the stage tilts it'll return you to your neutral position. personally I like to use dair when im aware the stage will tilt since not only will I be safe thanks to the wind hitbox but also if I hit him with dair I'll be sure to combo with it if my opponent does not tech the dair.

The more I play on Lylat, the more I'm starting to agree with this. The ledge issue with zair also seems fairly easy to avoid in most situations once you've gotten used to watching for the stage tilting. The slopes and tilting on that stage are really nice for JCBT too, and our projectiles and aerials make it really easy to shark the crap out of the opponent if you can bait them into getting on a platform.

 

[T-Man]

what you guys say about the 3DS version. As for the starters, which one is the best? I usually ban YI. As for counter pick, I choose FD, BF or prism Tower.

I´m doing it righT?

 

[Deleted member]

what you guys say about the 3DS version. As for the starters, which one is the best? I usually ban YI. As for counter pick, I choose FD, BF or prism Tower.

I´m doing it righT?

Personally that's how I do it, too. Prism Tower is especially good for us if you're using the fire arrows. I don't know why, but YI just feels like an annoying stage for us. Arena Ferox apparently is also sometimes used as a counterpick, which is a completely garbage stage for us because of the transformations so you should use your ban on that. For starters FD vs BF heavily depends on preference and the match-up.

 

[T-Man]

Personally that's how I do it, too. Prism Tower is especially good for us if you're using the fire arrows. I don't know why, but YI just feels like an annoying stage for us. Arena Ferox apparently is also sometimes used as a counterpick, which is a completely garbage stage for us because of the transformations so you should use your ban on that. For starters FD vs BF heavily depends on preference and the match-up.

Prism Tower is one of my favorite. The one who tries to recover under the main platform shall be stabbed down HAHAHAHA
For YI, the reason why I don´t like it, it´s cuz there is a glitch that happen when ya tether there. When you tether, sometime your character goes through the solid wall, and you fall to doom. I don´t like it cuz I fell there twice.

Also which one is better Ferox or YI. both stages are annoying. So which one should I Ban the best?

 

[Deleted member]

Prism Tower is one of my favorite. The one who tries to recover under the main platform shall be stabbed down HAHAHAHA
For YI, the reason why I don´t like it, it´s cuz there is a glitch that happen when ya tether there. When you tether, sometime your character goes through the solid wall, and you fall to doom. I don´t like it cuz I fell there twice.

Also which one is better Ferox or YI. both stages are annoying. So which one should I Ban the best?

Prism Tower really is amazing for us once you've gotten used to it. It's too bad it isn't on the Wii U. Also, there's a tether glitch on YI on the 3DS where we can go through the wall and die? As if that stage weren't bad enough for us already lol. Arena Ferox is still worse for us than YI though since Arena Ferox has all sorts of statues and stuff that get in the way of our projectiles. It's kind of like a 3DS version of Castle Siege in that way, but worse since transformations with statues are like half the match, and Castle Siege is already awful enough for us as is. Personally almost every time I've played on Arena Ferox the match ended up going to time because those statues often make it a bad idea to do anything other than just running away since we can't toss out projectiles.

 

[CURRY]

I'm listening to Artemis and finally pushing myself to post these gimmicky Toon Link things.

Flying around, using our weird tethers on custom stages:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYcGaUeURE0&index=33&list=WL&ab_channel=RED
Doesn't seem to work on ANY non-custom stages.

Here's a way to make Toon, or any other tether character for that matter, look silly and flop like a fish. On a custom stage, yet again. I don't think there's any stage where there are two ledges positioned on the same side on this custom stage that I made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZM96uM8IIM&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=seantoob
It's much easier to do with larger characters.

Later in the video, you see me grab the opposite ledge while facing the same way. This in fact, DOES work a non-custom stage!

Yeah that bit where you grabbed the other ledge backwards, that can be done on Palutena's Temple on the far right low triangular platforms, and it looks way crazier because of how far apart the ledges are. Plus you should check out Temple - you swing under the bottom platform and if you're at full length, you can retract it from the other side and actually travel the entire way around it and then end up standing on top.

Yeah, it's not legal, unfortunately.

Here's some things about going all the way under Battlefield, SV, Lylat, multiple Omega stages, etc. etc. without using a bomb to blow yourself up. I don't feel like typing it again, so I'll quote myself from the Social Thread:

EYYYYY MORE USELESS TOON THINGS
Toon Link can go under Battlefield without a bomb if he tarzan-swings on his tether under the stage, drops the tether, and proceeds to double jump + up-B to the other side.
So like

-------=====================---------

Where ==== is the main part of Battlefield, and ---- is an imaginary line. Toon has to be above that line so that he has enough momentum to swing forward enough to make up for going so low. Then you have to press down on the analog to cancel the tether WITHOUT FASTFALLING, which we should all be able to do, since we've suffered with down-B fastfalls offstage in previous games.
It's really time consuming to do on all stages, even with a star KO. So not even applicable as a star-KO taunt if you've mastered it. :|
Also,
-We can't recover to the other side without a bomb on Final Dest. We can recover to the other side with bomb WITHOUT tether-swinging, though.
-We can't recover under Big Battlefield even when using both, because our bomb explodes a lot faster in this game compared to others.

To clarify about the Big Battlefield thing:
If we pull our bomb and drop from the ledge of one side, our bomb explodes before we even get to the middle of the V-shaped underside, so no, we cannot recover from one side of Big Battlefield to the other, no matter what we do.

Another note, Battlefield is not perfectly congruent-- the "V" on the underside is shifted to the right a bit, so the slope of the underside is steeper on the right, and not as steep on the left. I think I remember recovering from the right to the left without using a bomb before, but testing it now, I haven't been able to do it. Recovering from left to right is MUCH easier.

 

[Deleted member]

So I have a tourney next week where Skyloft will be legal, haven't really gotten to play on it much though since for whatever reason my region really hates that stage. So I'm wondering, is Skyloft good or bad for us? Also, are there any match-ups in particular where it's good to go to that stage or important to ban it?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I can only imagine that skyloft would be good for Toon. Plenty of open space to run away and spam, walk-off sections where you can potentially get quick b-throw or d-smash kills. I'd familiarise myself with the stage first though. You don't want anything to take you by surprise. If you want to time out a slower character, then this stage would be a nice place to do it. There's even a part where you can circle camp.

 

[Theis]

I really feel like out of all the stages, smashville is toon link's best stage because if you consider its shape and gimmicks the moving platform gives toonlink some pretty hazardous options for opponents to deal with. this is especially true with customs on and using fire arrows to just cover the feild with traps that lead into his air attacks. next after smashville would be town and city for almost the same reason but its generally limited to what formation the platforms take place with. last would obviously FD because who wants to deal with landing into toon link's projectiles.

 

[ultrament2]

Hey guys I still think we should consider Great Cave Offensive a great place for TL, even if it'll never be legal in 4v4s.

 

[Jash]

Here is some information about a possible counter pick stage for Toon Link.

CASTLE SIEGE

1st form: This form is great for dancing all over characters with aerials that lag on landing, it's just perfect for frame trapping since Toon Link can literally cover all landing options one may have with short hop fair, nair, bair and zair for both platforms and the ground itself.
Best for: Villager, Samus, Bowser, Ganondorf, Little Mac

2nd form: This is a great place to do a lot of platform pressuring as well, being that you can go under every platform on this stage to escape any possible danger you may face, it's also great for running around being very annoying. I would however avoid being on the ground between the two statutes as they can mess up your game.
Best for: Ganondorf, Mario, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Lucario, Duck Hunt, Pac Man

3rd Form: This is Final Destination with a twist, there are two little hills that actually make moves like Zair more useful than it actually is. If you hit some one with zair at the top of that little hill, they will actually have more hit stun than they usually do, making it not only possible but easier to connect zair to fsmash at kill percentages (85% excluding Jigglypuff, Kirby, Rosalina, Peach)

Overall I would study this stage, you just might find a matchup where you would need it most.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree with Jash, I really don't think Castle Siege is such a bad stage for us, depending on the match-up of course. The first transformation is especially nice with custom moves, since the right platform is alright for camping under with fire arrows because of the ramp and the stage being small + short-fuse bombs if the opponent tries approaching you from above. On the second transformation I've found myself running away from an approaching opponent with upb2 quite a bit, too. Upb2 is kind of bad on the third transformation thoigh since if you recover too low or the stage tilts up as you're recovering, you'll end up sliding under the stage instead of snapping to the ledge like usual.

 

[vaanrose]

I didn't see it mentioned here, but the water on Delfino gives Toon Link a safe dair spike. I've had great success taking people there.

 

[Lucy_ya dawg]

I feel like taking villager and pacman to castle siege will result in a timeout and you getting pac keyed repeatedly .

 

[Jash]

I feel like taking villager and pacman to castle siege will result in a timeout and you getting pac keyed repeatedly .

You can really pressure Villager and Pac Man on the first transformation if the Toon Link decides to play aggressive (since Toon Links tilts out ranges most physical attacks Villager and Pac Man have) since Toon Link can easily dance around those platforms it can lead to a great deal of stage control that Villager or Pac Man may not be able to handle.

The second form may be the trickiest for both matchups (Pac Man more than Villager) Villager gets kinda mauled on this form being that the two statutes mess up his entire game if he hits them, not only that Villager has a hard time running around and escaping Toon Links close combat range (Toon Link able to rush Villager in due to dash speed differences) Pac Man is different on this form, he's great at running around and setting up key and hydrant traps (key being able to pierce through both statutes and still have a hit box out which can lead to quick kills) however Pac Man has a hard time dealing with an aggressive Toon Link especially if you bait the hydrant which will allow Toon Link to easily juggle him on this form and ultimately lead to quick kills from the top.

Third form is Final Destination, it's even for both Villager and Pac Man when it comes to the out come on this form.

 

[Lucy_ya dawg]

I see i see. Thanks for going into detail. I and the rest of houston believe tl is 5th best in the game

 

[jdubYOU]

So from what I've read here, is this correct for Toon's optimal stage?: 1) Platforms for safer landings, camping, sharking, etc. 2) mid height ceiling so Toon can KO with u-air but also not get KOed as early due to his light weight? Mainly, I'm having issues deciding which ceilings are really best for TL, or if the ceiling even matters as much as platforms do.

 

[Lucy_ya dawg]

forget the ceilings . Just do bomb to fair guaranteed kill