Samus vs. REALLY REALLY GOOD FOX's!

[Hylian]

Ok so..This is mainly directed at Hugs >_>. You have played FastLikeTree haven't you? What can I do against his fox to not be ***** so badly..he is just so..perfect with that I feel like I can not do anything >_>...I cannot find any flaws in his play and he abuses mine..I remember you saying you played him once but I could be wrong..so uh..Help please? And if anyone else here has played a Fox like his..PC Chris's or KDJ or M2K...help me?!?!!?

 

[Mars-]

Yeah I have problems like that too.

 

[TGM]

UP-B out of shield is a must,you know that.

if you ever get a grab off, up-thow to nair or fair.

if your on the edge, short hop with fair to UP-B........it works.

Or pick a better character(like your fox). cause samus vs fox is hard.

 

[Hylian]

UP-B out of shield is a must,you know that.

if you ever get a grab off, up-thow to nair or fair.

if your on the edge, short hop with fair to UP-B........it works.

Or pick a better character(like your fox). cause samus vs fox is hard.

Lol TGM I don't think Samus vs fox is that hard I would say its almost even maybe with fox having a slight advantage...It is my favorite match-up with samus though.

I'm not going to grab FLT.

FLT will just sit there after I up B and punish me on the way down.

He ***** my fox even worse. I do better with samus >_>.

Also, you need help against him too lol he 4 stocked your Marth with his Y. Link in a recorded Money Match. Remember the arrows? LOL.

 

[dcx1287]

yea, I can't even count the number of times FLT has 4 stocked me with his fox. his fox is extremely adept in essentially always either A) attacking your shield or B) attacking you

A and B are the scenarios for 90% of the games with him, and the other 10% is me trying to get position but eventually getting hit at a later time, which then diverges into A or B.

My advice is try another character lol, perhaps one that falls from the shine and is easy to pick up (jigglypuff?). as for samus advice, I can't give any unfortunately.

 

[Hylian]

Fox ***** Jigs . lol But I really want to know if Hugs has played hm and has any advice >_>...

 

[Zephynazo]

I havent played ppl like M2K or anything like that.... not even close, but i deal pretty good with foxes whn i play samus.

 

[Somebody]

I had the chance yo play M2K at one of chus bi-weeklys but I didnt because it was my first tournament and I didnt know anyone but my teammate so I really didnt wanna look dumb.


Look at some videos of HugS actually playing some good foxs. I know Wes played M2K a long time ago at the king of the couch tourney and won(regardless M2K was alot worse then than now but oh well). Maybe that would help a little.

 

[J Flo]

One of my friends plays a really good fox that I'm starting to have some trouble with also. I'm trying to get into the habit of doing the up-B out of shield whenever he is closeby or whenever I think he will shine. I think a good way of getting into this is to play as fox for a bit, and get a feel for when a player will use the shine(I guess this applies to playing against falco also).

 

[Aftermath]

Learn to smash DI the shine so you can't get waveshined. Doesn't take that long to learn, after a while you just think to yourself, "Hey, this would be a good time for fox to shine me," and then you smash DI and you're free.

 

[Hylian]

I never get waveshined..I know how to DI really well >_>....

 

[Mars-]

Still waiting for HugS reply, heh.

 

[Hylian]

Yep...so far nothing >_>.

 

[__HARM__]

just watch some hug matches maybe.

 

[Hylian]

There are none of him playing FLT >_>...TMK anyway.

 

[Wreckless]

Just avoid and come in when he makes a mistake.

-that's what hugs do, i believe ** also upB when he's all up in yo koolaid

and that's what i do too, and i don't have any problems with fox anymore. Just play smarter and slow down and watch what he is doing.

 

[majoras.]

like someone already said, UP-B FTW! ^.^

 

[Dyna]

D-Smash is really useful.

You can also use Dash Attack to U-Tilt or many Dash Attacks in sucession then N-Air.
Remember to edge guard with N-Air, it's REALLY important.
Also if you are on siege, Up-B out of your shield, it's really easy and useful.

Also useful, are the normal missiles (homing), you can abuse that.

 

[Hylian]

Peoples...I know the Samus-Fox match-up really well..I know everything you are telling me and thanks for trying to help but you don't understand >_>..It's not Fox that I need help against its FastLikeTree...His pressure game is amazing..its like he doesn't let you do anything and he controls the whole match. Up B is useful yes but somehow he knows when you are going to do it or he will bait me into Up Bing. FLT will be on you the whole match attacking constantly pressuring you. CC doesn't seem to help because everytime I CC I get grabbed >_>. I dash attack..he pivots something and punish's me for it..everything I do is just shut down by his playstyle.

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

Sounds like FLT is teh H@X0RS LOL.
I think you should recorded your matches with him so people can better help you with your problem cause words alone wont cut it.
Why hasnt HugS posted in here yet???

 

[majoras.]

Peoples...I know the Samus-Fox match-up really well..I know everything you are telling me and thanks for trying to help but you don't understand >_>..It's not Fox that I need help against its FastLikeTree...His pressure game is amazing..its like he doesn't let you do anything and he controls the whole match. Up B is useful yes but somehow he knows when you are going to do it or he will bait me into Up Bing. FLT will be on you the whole match attacking constantly pressuring you. CC doesn't seem to help because everytime I CC I get grabbed >_>. I dash attack..he pivots something and punish's me for it..everything I do is just shut down by his playstyle.

ooooooooo fastliketree, well........mmmm....just hope he dieds 3 times alone,
nah dude, he is a pro dude what you expect, i got to play his falco on pools on host, and i just could take one life out of him. but yeah its gonna be hard dude, but everytime you fight him youll get more and more experience against other foxes out there.

 

[Dyna]

Then PM HugS or Wes.

 

[Mars-]

Then PM HugS or Wes.

Rofl Wes doesn't check his PMs. But you can catch him on AIM occationally.

 

[Hylian]

ooooooooo fastliketree, well........mmmm....just hope he dieds 3 times alone,
nah dude, he is a pro dude what you expect, i got to play his falco on pools on host, and i just could take one life out of him. but yeah its gonna be hard dude, but everytime you fight him youll get more and more experience against other foxes out there.

Yeah you are right >_>...And I guess I will PM Hugs >_>.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

uh couldnt u just ask FLT wat u should do better. i usually do that wen i playing someone i cant beat. i just ask them how do i play u better wat am i doing rong and how can i correct it.

 

[Hylian]

I haven't seen FLT in awhile >_>.

 

[samusedaway]

Hmm.... I'd say the key to beating (or even coming close to beating) pros who play fox or almost any character for that matter is to use your head.

I saw you play DoH (I think that was you it might have been majoras) at EVO South, and you make a lot of mistakes that even I tend to make. Like you would fall for some of DoH's tricks multiple times in a row. What you have to do is actively think passively ( I know sounds a crazy but hear me out) during the match and keep little reminders going on in the back of your mind like: I shouldn't dash attack cause I'm just going to get sheild grabbed, or I have to be careful and up B only when I know I can take advantage of the situation afterwards. The big thing, especially for us samus players, is that you have to know your limitations. Don't over extend yourself cause you think you can get a hit in. Do what you know will work and stick with that.

As for aggressive styles, like anyone who plays fox, falco, or falcon, you have to remember why they play like that. They play that aggressive because that's the only way those characters are actually good at beating people. In those situations you have to think like them. Everyone knows samus cannot shield grab, so they already know you're going to be holding shield a lot which means they get to grab whenever they get close and you aren't attacking. The next thing they think of is if they get too close you're going to up b from shield, so you have to use that to your advantage. People like Wes are going to anticipate the up B and tech out of it or DI towards you so, do it a couple of times and then start to change it up. Instead of up b maybe just jump and neutral air, do whatever suits your play style.

You have to be thinking all this while still thinking about everything else: different recovery patterns, how to kill people (i.e. peach dies vertically the fastest while foxes usually dies horizontally), small but effective combos, and of course up tilt, up tilt, up tilt. That's the hard part, keeping everything in order.

I know it sounds simple but all you really have to do is keep your head about you. Realize your weaknesses and limitations and then use that to your advantage by taking on the view of your opponent.

 

[Hylian]

Hmm.... I'd say the key to beating (or even coming close to beating) pros who play fox or almost any character for that matter is to use your head.

I saw you play DoH (I think that was you it might have been majoras) at EVO South, and you make a lot of mistakes that even I tend to make. Like you would fall for some of DoH's tricks multiple times in a row. What you have to do is actively think passively ( I know sounds a crazy but hear me out) during the match and keep little reminders going on in the back of your mind like: I shouldn't dash attack cause I'm just going to get sheild grabbed, or I have to be careful and up B only when I know I can take advantage of the situation afterwards. The big thing, especially for us samus players, is that you have to know your limitations. Don't over extend yourself cause you think you can get a hit in. Do what you know will work and stick with that.

As for aggressive styles, like anyone who plays fox, falco, or falcon, you have to remember why they play like that. They play that aggressive because that's the only way those characters are actually good at beating people. In those situations you have to think like them. Everyone knows samus cannot shield grab, so they already know you're going to be holding shield a lot which means they get to grab whenever they get close and you aren't attacking. The next thing they think of is if they get too close you're going to up b from shield, so you have to use that to your advantage. People like Wes are going to anticipate the up B and tech out of it or DI towards you so, do it a couple of times and then start to change it up. Instead of up b maybe just jump and neutral air, do whatever suits your play style.

You have to be thinking all this while still thinking about everything else: different recovery patterns, how to kill people (i.e. peach dies vertically the fastest while foxes usually dies horizontally), small but effective combos, and of course up tilt, up tilt, up tilt. That's the hard part, keeping everything in order.

I know it sounds simple but all you really have to do is keep your head about you. Realize your weaknesses and limitations and then use that to your advantage by taking on the view of your opponent.

Were you the green samus player? You saw Majoras play not me. I didn't play Doh and also I use fox angainst DoH not samus considering last time I played him my fox went even with him in matchs. I remember talking with you some and commenting on matchs but I don't think I played you. All in all it was good adivce though I don't worry to much about being grabbed in my shield...shielddashing and ftilt ftw. Doh actually went and got me and made me play his Peach with my samus so he would be ready for majoras lol. We only played like half a match though because he had to go play. I watched DoH play majoras and yeah I saw what you were talking about with the mistakes because I kept thinking in my head.."I would of done something else.." and such..then again Doh is really good it's not like majoras was playing badly.

 

[samusedaway]

Nope no green samus here.

All in all it was good adivce though I don't worry to much about being grabbed in my shield...shielddashing and ftilt ftw.

This is why you have trouble with good people. You've already dismissed a problem that occurs and that pros know will occur. Yes shield dashing and forward tilting works sometimes, but you'll more likely get grabbed out of your sheild so you need to keep it as a possibility. You can't let anything slide.

I kept thinking in my head.."I would of done something else.."

This is easy to do when you aren't playing because you don't have to think about the active stuff I mentioned before. Its when you are in the match that its the hardest.

 

[Hylian]

Nope no green samus here.



This is why you have trouble with good people. You've already dismissed a problem that occurs and that pros know will occur. Yes shield dashing and forward tilting works sometimes, but you'll more likely get grabbed out of your sheild so you need to keep it as a possibility. You can't let anything slide.



This is easy to do when you aren't playing because you don't have to think about the active stuff I mentioned before. Its when you are in the match that its the hardest.

I was not dismissing it I was saying I don't have that problem because I know how to handle it. I automatically think about things like this in smash...I have been playing for so long it comes naturally. I don't have trouble with good people because I don't think about things..in fact I would say I am good myself..I do however have trouble with pros like FLT.

Anyways..I don't even know now why I opened this topic..obviously no one is going to really be able to help me just by suggesting tactics that I already know about I just have to get better and learn how to play smarter against him and thats it..

Can a mod close this?

 

[majoras.]

Doh actually went and got me and made me play his Peach with my samus so he would be ready for majoras lol. We only played like half a match though because he had to go play. I watched DoH play majoras and yeah I saw what you were talking about with the mistakes because I kept thinking in my head.."I would of done something else.." and such..then again Doh is really good it's not like majoras was playing badly.

OOOO thats why he **** me so bad then

nah just kidding yeah he is too good, which samus where you samusedaway? the pink one? or the asian looking guy who played a black samus?

 

[TGM]

So who had the best samus at EVO south?

and did you face FLT hylian?

 

[theFiend123]

and did you face FLT hylian?

no. flt wasn't at evo south he is on vacation now somewhere else.

and hylian - honestly dude, you asked for advice and there are lots of people giving you **** good advice (especially samusedaway) and you're arrogantly ignoring it all.

sorry to say hylian but you're not in a position to deny advice from anyone. you're not good enough to do that. ****...unless the people talking to you are total newbies at the game (which they are not) you shouldn't be dismissing advice. it sounds super arrogant and ungrateful.

i've seen a number of your videos, hylian, and you aren't exactly spectacular in the game. in fact, you make **** loads of errors. i'll be man enough to admit that i would probably make a lot of those same errors as well, which brings me to my next point:

I watched DoH play majoras and yeah I saw what you were talking about with the mistakes because I kept thinking in my head.."I would of done something else.." and such..

that's such a scrubbish quote it's not even funny.

read "You can lead a scrub to water, but you can't make 'em think. " by Sirlin to figure out what I mean. unfortunately i can't find a direct link to it now.

everyone thinks they know everything wrong with their game. everyone thinks they know exactly how top pros play. everyone's the "next ken" but does this ever happen? no. you're never as good as you think you are, and you know far less than you think you know, so please hylian take the advice given in this thread seriously.

it's silly to filter out advice if it's not from HugS or someone equally talented. you can learn valuable things from us "average folk" as well, because you're in the same group as us.

 

[majoras.]

calmdown dude, hylian is good dude, not flt good tho

 

[Dyna]

no. flt wasn't at evo south he is on vacation now somewhere else.

and hylian - honestly dude, you asked for advice and there are lots of people giving you **** good advice (especially samusedaway) and you're arrogantly ignoring it all.

sorry to say hylian but you're not in a position to deny advice from anyone. you're not good enough to do that. ****...unless the people talking to you are total newbies at the game (which they are not) you shouldn't be dismissing advice. it sounds super arrogant and ungrateful.

i've seen a number of your videos, hylian, and you aren't exactly spectacular in the game. in fact, you make **** loads of errors. i'll be man enough to admit that i would probably make a lot of those same errors as well, which brings me to my next point:



that's such a scrubbish quote it's not even funny.

read "You can lead a scrub to water, but you can't make 'em think. " by Sirlin to figure out what I mean. unfortunately i can't find a direct link to it now.

everyone thinks they know everything wrong with their game. everyone thinks they know exactly how top pros play. everyone's the "next ken" but does this ever happen? no. you're never as good as you think you are, and you know far less than you think you know, so please hylian take the advice given in this thread seriously.

it's silly to filter out advice if it's not from HugS or someone equally talented. you can learn valuable things from us "average folk" as well, because you're in the same group as us.

I totally agree.

"The more you know, the less you think you know".

 

[Hylian]

no. flt wasn't at evo south he is on vacation now somewhere else.

and hylian - honestly dude, you asked for advice and there are lots of people giving you **** good advice (especially samusedaway) and you're arrogantly ignoring it all.

sorry to say hylian but you're not in a position to deny advice from anyone. you're not good enough to do that. ****...unless the people talking to you are total newbies at the game (which they are not) you shouldn't be dismissing advice. it sounds super arrogant and ungrateful.

i've seen a number of your videos, hylian, and you aren't exactly spectacular in the game. in fact, you make **** loads of errors. i'll be man enough to admit that i would probably make a lot of those same errors as well, which brings me to my next point:



that's such a scrubbish quote it's not even funny.

read "You can lead a scrub to water, but you can't make 'em think. " by Sirlin to figure out what I mean. unfortunately i can't find a direct link to it now.

everyone thinks they know everything wrong with their game. everyone thinks they know exactly how top pros play. everyone's the "next ken" but does this ever happen? no. you're never as good as you think you are, and you know far less than you think you know, so please hylian take the advice given in this thread seriously.

it's silly to filter out advice if it's not from HugS or someone equally talented. you can learn valuable things from us "average folk" as well, because you're in the same group as us.

Why are you always on my case? You have flamed me before..yet I have never seen you at a tournament or played you. I know that they are giving me good advice and seriously I would give myself the same advice which I realized and asked for the topic to be closed because I know that the only way I am going to do better against FLT is by playing with him more. I am not degreading any of the other players or saying I am better then them.

And how would you know how good I am at this game? You have told me before that you are definitly better then me..but no..I have never even heard of you aside from seeing you popping up places complaining about something I said.

Also you have never seen a number of my videos. Stop lying. I don't have any videos online. So obviously you don't know who I am if you think you are watching my videos. How can you tell me I know far less then I think I know...do you know what I know? No.

I know I can learn things from average players but that is by playing them. I am well-versed in smash theory so I would rather just play the people.

Obviously you have no idea who I am because no you have not seen any of my videos or played me or even sat behind me and watched me play. Yet you call me a scrub?

Good job.

Edit: TGM...I don't know who the best samus there was..not all of the Samus's played each other...I watched Majoras alot and I saw a couple of other samus there but from what I saw it was either me or Majoras. And majoras has gotten craploads better then host..you have no idea. I would say his samus is as good as mine or better but I can't be sure about all the samus's there.

 

[JettythatSamus]

I'll try to make one suggestion before this thread is closed. Hope it helps.

Lets assume both you and FLT are pros right?

So play him like a noob.

Tech him like a pro.

DI, tech, CC occasionally.

But when you attack, do quick things that newbies do. Ever been playin a younger cousin or brother at a game, and they're pressing the same button over and over while you're trying to execute advanced combos, and they keep hitting you? Mini shots, whoring the neutral A combo, dsmashing three times in a row for apparently no reason. All of these things. The trick is to use your pro skills to play like a noob, since he's always all over you.

When you ARE hit off the stage, use pro tactics to recover, when you're just hit, try NOT to DI, or NOT tech. The challenge comes from your mind because it'll seem like you're playing all wrong, and you have to be smart enough to discern what's working and also, when he comes more cautious and slows down, then YOU switch back to playin pro status. Hope this helps.

 

[majoras.]

Edit: TGM...I don't know who the best samus there was..not all of the Samus's played each other...I watched Majoras alot and I saw a couple of other samus there but from what I saw it was either me or Majoras. And majoras has gotten craploads better then host..you have no idea. I would say his samus is as good as mine or better but I can't be sure about all the samus's there.

did you see me play Mr.C? ^.^

 

[Hylian]

No, I heard you beat him though and I was amazed. I watched you play DoH though.

 

[HugS]

I haven't played FLT in the longest so I can't really say what his style is or how to counter it. But from what I remember, I'm assuming that his style is extremely aggressive. A good aggressive fox will be able to approach after you miss an attack and follow up with a very fast and close range moveset. So what to do?

The best thing to do is to avoid doing laggy moves unless you are sure you will land them. This is pretty obvious, but do you focus that much energy on making sure this happens mid match?

How do you know when you can or can't pull off an attack? Well that depends...

Do you focus on when the fox has a tendency to double jump? Do you focus on when the fox likes to pretend he's going to land on you but lands on a platform instead? Are you able to hold off any urges to throw out moves when you aren't sure if they will land or not? Do you have a tendency to up tilt before you are sure if the fox will up B or forward B?

The key to beating fox is to have a solid defense going, while making sure that you have complete control over your character and your habits.

For example, WISHING for that downsmash to hit is not good enough vs a pro fox. You gotta make sure that downsmash will hit, if you don't think it will, don't even try it. Same goes with all your moves.

Hope some of that helps.