Samus vs Jigglypuff - Advice??? :(

[hugQ Cortex]

Hi people. Jiggles frustrates me. I need helllllp.

Here's a vid of my Samus vs my friend's Puff. It's from our college crew battle. I start off with three stock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1P3u-1JisA

How the heck do I edgeguard a Puff?!

Against Puff, I've found that I'm basically extremely reserved in using grabs, dash attacks, and smashes. I still don't know much about spaced smashes, like, can Puff still punish me out of her shield with a b-air even if I perfectly space my f-smash/d-smash?

What's your say about the arial game in this match-up? Should I just stay grounded most of the time?

You don't have to answer all of my questions. You can also throw in any other advice that wasn't asked in my post. Any advice will be greatly appreciated

Edit: Is it just me, or am I simply not just shielding enough? I watched it again and realized, "Where the hell is my shield?!"

 

[pressthebutton]

dont use dtilt against jigglys cuz theyre so floaty they'll be impossible to hit after. play defensively, wavedashing out of your shield when theyre wop'ing you. i dont think i even try to edgeguard against jigglys. if anything, i try to hit them with a bair as they return to the stage. if theyre returning from below the ledge, drop a bomb after, and hopefully they'll run out of jumps or something.

scrap the bomb idea, although it seems like it might work in my head, i thought about it, and if the jiggly is returning from below, i usually try a utilt.

 

[Rohins]

If the jiggly puff is constantly doing WoP try to time a sweet spot back air. It should catch em off guard once, don't spam it though they'll catch on.

 

[Metroid_01]

I play pretty often against a good jiggly, so mebbe I can help. I get rocked enough that I have a vague idea of what to do (against this one anyways ).

Although this is very very situational, down tilt /down smash have great uses. In smaller stages Jiggs will fly straight off the top under 90% I believe. Unfortunately, you will rarely catch Jiggly like this as she tends to be floating above range of those attacks.

Definitely never attempt to hop off for an edge guard, you will only hurt for it. Samus has awesome aerial mobility, but she needs to focus on bomb jumps to keep it up, Jigglypuff can just go straight to you and float about, ruining your bomb movement, so being off the stage is a bad idea. My only advice in that situation is be very careful about how you place bombs (mind game a bit with them...), and see if you be threatening with a down air (or even hit one... mebbe they wont meteor cancel?)

Also, Jiggly has a thing for the edge, so if you can control that, it would help you greatly.

if theyre returning from below the ledge, drop a bomb after, and hopefully they'll run out of jumps or something.

That too, . I have seen that kind of strategy done with shines before, and while bombs are alot harder to use like that, its not the worst idea ever.


I have never tried catching Jiggly with a back air while recovering, but I use neutral air to relatively good success (it has just enough priority to keep you safe from aerials).

 

[frotaz37]

Nobody can really edgeguard puff unless she's coming from below the stage.

Another thing, you have to remember, Samus doesn't really have a grab, so jabs, spacing, and moves that aren't laggy are your friends. Trust me, if you use laggy moves on jiggly's shield the jiggly will eventually realize that all she has to do is jump out of shield F air or back air everytime you hit her.

Jabs and F tilts are your friend. SPAM THEM.

 

[hugQ Cortex]

Bump + added video in first post.

 

[REDRAGON]

Wow that Jiggs was good.
Maybe more missles(though not too much more) more bombs and less sex kick.....
Could be wroung. Oh and i noticed you never used utilt which would probably work wonders agaist Jiggs!

REDRAGON

 

[Corigames]

I find that by purposefully shooting above a puff, they are more likely to accidentally hit a missile. Try to use more mind games than just jumping in, because the puff is ver mobile. Watch the puff punches, punish whenever you can for a missed punch. This is my experience, so it may not translate.

 

[Boolossus]

I always kill my friend`s jiggs with my Samus. Some simpletricks I use are:

-Dodge down to down smash
-wavedash back to forward smash
-If jiggs is on the offensive, just drop back and lay about five bombs, then wait for him to slip up. If you can, fire homing/straight missiles to add to the chaos of the bombs.
-Homing missiles work wonders, if you're at a standstill, just slowly approach him while firing these.
-Above all, PLAY DEFENSIVELY. My friend always kills me when I chase after him. Wait for him to come to you.

 

[Mars-]

Charged shot.

 

[ph00tbag]

I always kill my friend`s jiggs with my Samus. Some simpletricks I use are:

-Dodge down to down smash
-wavedash back to forward smash

These'll work on Jigglypuffs that spend a lot of time on the ground and don't properly space their approach, and Bubu is doing neither.

Part of your problem is that you're relying on a lot of stock moves that Jiggz can punish easily, like the screw attack. This can do well if it connects, but you should only do it if it's going to connect. That Jiggz mostly shields after aerials, so just make a covered escape. If it lands next to your shield, I'd go for some aerials out of shield, maybe waveshielded jabs and ftilts, or just waveshield away.

You may also want to fire more homing missiles, although I realize that on battlefield, the opportunity for that doesn't present itself very often.

You did a good job outprioritizing Jiggz' air game with those ftilts.

 

[Boolossus]

These'll work on Jigglypuffs that spend a lot of time on the ground and don't properly space their approach, and Bubu is doing neither.

Part of your problem is that you're relying on a lot of stock moves that Jiggz can punish easily, like the screw attack. This can do well if it connects, but you should only do it if it's going to connect. That Jiggz mostly shields after aerials, so just make a covered escape. If it lands next to your shield, I'd go for some aerials out of shield, maybe waveshielded jabs and ftilts, or just waveshield away.

You may also want to fire more homing missiles, although I realize that on battlefield, the opportunity for that doesn't present itself very often.

You did a good job outprioritizing Jiggz' air game with those ftilts.

Actually, I only use those techniques if he's approaching from the air.

 

[ph00tbag]

Actually, I only use those techniques if he's approaching from the air.

Well, then he's landing too close to you and not l-cancelling, ie. spending too much time on the ground and not spacing his approach. And like I said, the Jiggz in the vid is spacing itself better. If it does land too close, I'd rather jab before I smash attack, because then it can't fair or bair me out of its shield.

 

[Boolossus]

The dsmash hits him before he lands... IDK though, this doesn't seem to be helping HUGQ anymore.

 

[hugQ Cortex]

Thanks all for the useful advice.

I do need to play more defensively instead of just rushing in.

Metroid_01: Actually, if you pay attention to the times I try to come down with a sex kick while I'm trying to recover/make it back to the stage, the Jiggly spaces itself well so that the sex kick doesn't hit and Jiggly punishes it. Also, the sex kicks I used in the match were out-prioritized a lot by Jiggly's arials, so I was just thinking that maybe I should just do the best I can (bomb tricks, second jump, sweetspot grapple, up-b/airdodge mindgames) to make it back safely to the stage.

Boolosus: The wavedash-back-to-forward-smash (or even the walk/run-back to f-smash) actually works great on Jiggs or any character for that matter who tries to rush in from the air, all you need is proper spacing. But the spot-dodge to down smash seems, I don't know, too predictable. Usually, spot-dodging out of instinct/randomly will get you punished more times than not, because your opponent will catch on quickly and wait for that spot-dodge to happen. Even so, if your down smash ends up hitting Jiggs's shield (assuming Jiggs landed with an L-cancelled arial and instantly shielded), the lag of the down smash will give Jiggs enough time to punish you with a bair/fair, and maybe even a rest if I'm not mistaken. But thanks for the help!

Again, thanks all for the tips! Can't wait to hear what other ppl have to say.

 

[Metroid_01]

Probably should have paid more attention to the vid from the start - my bad =/.

This jiggly does indeed have good spacing, but also lacks an edge game, or any real game off the edge from what I have seen. This is a major advantage to you because off the edge is where Jigglypuff shines the most. Also, the reason many of your nairs failed was in part due to good spacing on the part of your opponent, but also, some of them were too obvious. Jigglypuff has very very good aerial mobility, you cant let her see your attacks coming at all. Neutral Air is still the best prioritized aerial you have... though fair tends to work well as well. Actually, if someone could confirm this with me. I think that fair will get through alot more of Jigglypuff's attacks than nair will. It reaches farther forward. Regardless, in general if you did not rush in, your recovery aerials tended to grant you more advantages than disadvantages in terms of causing the Jigglypuff to back off somewhat, or landing blows.

I think your main advantages are (counterintuitively) off the edge against this player. I get the impression that this person does not use Jigglypuff's recovery to its fullest from the fact that he rarely leaves the stage unless forced.

 

[Shade_]

alright, i recommend shooting at it until it dies.

 

[frangow]

also, be carefull with Dsmash on jiglly shield, there is a jigly player here in brasilia that WD out of shield after the Dsmash and rest me in the Dsmash lag O.o

 

[onii-chan]

i would say to put a couple of bombs and missles in jiggys face but that depends on the kind of player u r playing bcruz if that guy plays defense wit jiggly ur pretty much screwed in my opinon so the best thing to do is get jiggly in the air a couple of times and sexy kick her u should throw in ur own little combo after that...so good luck

 

[Somebody]

Dont get hit by pound. That has to be the most annoying move ever after fighting a decent jiggs for a while. If they keep aiming for the ledge with a pound on their way up from recovering, you can sneak in an utilt.

Try to blast em' while youre recovering if you have it and theyre coming at you while bombing. Most people dont see a blast coming from off the stage and alot of the time they get hit by it. Dont do it too much because they'll catch on and you'll just waste a blast....

 

[onii-chan]

Dont get hit by pound. That has to be the most annoying move ever after fighting a decent jiggs for a while. If they keep aiming for the ledge with a pound on their way up from recovering, you can sneak in an utilt.

Try to blast em' while youre recovering if you have it and theyre coming at you while bombing. Most people dont see a blast coming from off the stage and alot of the time they get hit by it. Dont do it too much because they'll catch on and you'll just waste a blast....

not unless you time the blast just right to hit her smack in the face following it up wit a missle

 

[majoras.]

i think that against puff its better to dont edgeguard, but give priority to build up the charge shot while puff recovers, since landing all the charge shots you can on puff on the match can give you an advantage on the win