Samus Mewtwo MU Help Request

[CyberMario]

I've been able to destroy my friend's Marth, DK, Pit, and Fox on money matches. Now, all of a sudden, when he goes Mewtwo, I can't win a single match.

Mewtwo has a much larger range than Marth, which I'm very unfamiliar with in practice. Also Mewtwo's aerial recovery is absolutely difficult to counter, at least for me.

I cannot, for any reason, be above Mewtwo. Anytime I'm set above him is absolute disaster for me. His utilts and uair destory all and any options for Samus.

And lets not forget Mewtwo's upthrow can kill at 95% percent. I know this percent by heart because I've been dieing to it constantly, even with the best DI possible.

Any advice, theories, or suggestions are GREATLY appreciated.

 

[Litt]

I've been able to destroy my friend's Marth, DK, Pit, and Fox on money matches. Now, all of a sudden, when he goes Mewtwo, I can't win a single match.

Mewtwo has a much larger range than Marth, which I'm very unfamiliar with in practice. Also Mewtwo's aerial recovery is absolutely difficult to counter, at least for me.

I cannot, for any reason, be above Mewtwo. Anytime I'm set above him is absolute disaster for me. His utilts and uair destory all and any options for Samus.

And lets not forget Mewtwo's upthrow can kill at 95% percent. I know this percent by heart because I've been dieing to it constantly, even with the best DI possible.

Any advice, theories, or suggestions are GREATLY appreciated.

Let me first start off by saying, mewtwos range is not disjointed so you can infact clank or beat it out with your own moves. Mewtwos recovery is difficult to edgeguard, but most mewtwos like to approach using their up b, and you can predict where they will appear before they get there and throw out an attack to hit him just as they teleport there. There is a reason you should not be above mewtwo, and that is because... SAMUS IS A GROUND BASED ZONING CHARACTER... which no one on these boards seems to understand and they believe just willing samus to be a better/differently used character will make it happen. Also lets not forget that EVERY STAGE HAS A DIFFERENT CEILING AND YOU CAN LIVE PAST 95%, and you may infact not be using the best DI possible to live these throws, and even theoretically if you are, you should understand and actively avoid grabs past those percents... its part of the match up...

 

[Litt]

As for the poll you created, no watching any melee samus mewtwo matches would be pointless, because mewtwo is so different of a character now, with so many differences in priority and movement, that essentially between games these are different characters and should be treated as such.

 

[Chevy]

I can't claim to have faced many outstanding Mewtwo players, but in my limited experience, use ice. The range on your fair and upsmash should help against that floaty jerk's gigantic tail. Also, he will die pretty early to ice upsmash, try to predict where he will teleport and throw out fairs. And, like klit said, stay grounded. Mewtwo will juggle you forever, you almost never wanna be above anyone as Samus, or any other character for that matter. Kinda just a rule of smash. Also, be more careful missile spamming, because besides his slow reflector move, Mewtwo has the most ridiculous powershield that I've seen, it's pretty much effortless. His shield is like double the size to cover his tail.

 

[ES Lite]

I dont know about ice, seeing as ice fair is kinda slow, Mewtwo's utilt and uair can probably beat it out. Ice Usmash might be viable with platforms.
Everything klit said should be taken into account.
Other than that I'd say wavedash oos into shield to approach him. Once your near him I'd suspect Upb oos could be a response to anything he does other than grab. You'd never want to keep approaching mewtwo though, this is something you'd do every once and awhile, and you wouldn't do this across the stage or something lol
Retreating fairs might work. I haven't really faced any good mewtwos in a minute to say for sure

 

[ph00tbag]

I feel like camping is probably a worth-while option. Just be mindful of spacing, because he can bust through missiles and hit you with a well-timed fly bair. If you can bait out a confusion to reflect your missiles, you'll definitely beat that by short hop dairing over the reflected missile. If Mewtwo is in the air before you are, you want to do what you can to control his landing. I've always liked dash attack as an aggressive anti-air, and you can also poke him out of the air with utilt and ftilt. Fsmash is also going to be useful in the ground to air footsies game.

I think this match-up is very much about reading when it's time to press space and give up space. That's kinda par for the course with Samus, but I think the moves I've listed are good tools that Samus has to really try to control Mewtwo's options. That said, I think this will wind up being a tough match-up.

 

[Litt]

Just tick for tat, on the ground approaching, you have the superior options and range when face to face with mewtwo. Not until both of you are airborne does mewtwo gain an advantage, and that is only moves that encompass his tail, and his fast nair, both of which you can still combat from the ground. Stay grounded, you do not need to force mewtwo to approach, but if you want to approach yourself, you can adopt a number of strategies, that are all effective, boost ball past mewtwo into upsmash, regular melee meta game spacing with forward tilts then pressuring their shield with jabs, or the third option of spacing zairs to actively approach. Yes of course there are other ways to approach the match up regarding missile spams, and retreating ice fairs, but over all, most mewtwos will be on the aggressive side because they don't deal well with pressure or being comboed

 

[CyberMario]

Here is the data I collected from your responses. (Will be edited with time)

Play Style:
- Samus’ Ground game > Mewtwo’s Ground game
- Samus’ Air game < Mewtwo’s Air game
- Fire Beam > Ice Beam in MU. Ice beam doesn’t dent a GOOD Mewtwo’s Air Game.
- Be mindful of spacing. His Bair is always farther than it looks when he approaches you.
- Control his landing if he is in the air. Use moves like Utilt, Fsmash, Uair, (possibly Dash Attack)
- Lay the pressure, Mewtwo cannot escape pressure very well nor can he escape combos.
- Mewtwos are largely aggressive. He will mostly likely have poor defensive play style.

IDEAS:
- Approach: Retreating Fairs
- Approach: Morph Ball into Shield then Grab (Note: Pressing Grab will just do Dtilt)
- Edge Guard: Lay a Bomb in the range he may teleport to. Punish if he hits. Once he learns and begins to actively avoid the bomb, predict the new area he teleports to and lay your hurtbox there.
- Play Style: Camp

When I see a mewtwo constantly teleporting, I drop through on a platform, firing a missile to the open part of the stage, and then an fsmash in the other direction, it normally covers the option the m2 is trying to get, where the last one would be a falling fair on samus, which could be covered by throwing out an up smash instead of the fsmash. If you can cover 2/3 options, you are going to be doing well in that part of the MU and the m2 is most likely going to stop coming in with teleports and play smarter

APPROACH:
- Zairs, never ending Zairs. Your Zair will still out do all/any of Mewtwo’s moves. Also, time your Zair's slightly differently so he can't read and try to side step.
- Don’t approach too often, only every once in a while.
- UpB OoS response to pressure. (Unadvisable due to bad punishes Mewtwo has if miss or shielded)
- Mewtwo’s Range is long but not disjointed. Can clang with your own moves.
- Mewtwo’s will recover with their UpB, predict and lay a hurt box there before they reappear at that location.

CAUTION:
- Mewtwo has ridiculous powersheild. Wary of missiles coming back at you.
- Avoid letting Mewtwo grab you at high percents at all costs.
- Never be above Mewtwo or challenge him in aerial combat.
- Watch all of his aerial moves.
- Mewtwo’s Dtilt covers more range than what the Boost ball can cover. Thus, Boost ball is hazardous.
- Mewtwo’s Dtilt reaches longer than Samus’ Ftilt. Use extreme caution when shield poking.

STAGE CHOICE:
- High Ceiling is GREAT (See: Mewtwo's Uthrow, Usmash). Medium Death Zones are ADVISABLE.
- The ice missile spam (homing on platform and fall through smash ice missile) is the most useful part of the neutral game in this MU
- SAMUS NEEDS PLATFORMS
- Recommended w/ Ice Missiles: Pokemon Stadium 1, Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Story, and then Pkmn stdm
- My (flawed?) Recommended: Rumble Falls, Skyworld, Battlefield, Lylat Cruise
- Ban: Warioware Inc., Fountain of Dreams, Final Destination

Edit Version 1.4

 

[ES Lite]

I mean, you've definitely covered a lot of things in the matchup, but every mewtwo is different. You don't want to be doing the same thing to every mewtwo when they can play around with teleporting aerials. That alien is elusive as hell

 

[CyberMario]

I mean, you've definitely covered a lot of things in the matchup, but every mewtwo is different. You don't want to be doing the same thing to every mewtwo when they can play around with teleporting aerials. That alien is elusive as hell

Mmm sure. I believe that goes without saying. But the list seems to be everyone's general consensus. If I can't beat him with this data...

Then I have some serious work to do...

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I mean, you've definitely covered a lot of things in the matchup, but every mewtwo is different. You don't want to be doing the same thing to every mewtwo when they can play around with teleporting aerials. That alien is elusive as hell

Genetic experiment. Completely native to Terra, tyvm.

 

[CyberMario]

I can always use MORE info if anyone has any. Please, any theories or plays you think would be reasonable would greatly help me. I'll update the MU bullets and I'll greatly incorporate it into my money matches.

 

[KingChaos]

mewtwo cannot grab you in morph ball mode because samus is too low to the ground so utilize when you think he is going for the throw. Also he cannot hit you with the jab start up just so you know. If you are in the air and he teleports throw out a nair. Thats my theory at least idk if it work or not; haven't got the chance to actually try it in a real match. It should because he does have a very brief lag period after.

 

[CyberMario]

mewtwo cannot grab you in morph ball mode

Wrong. Many characters can.

Also he cannot hit you with the jab start up.

He doesn't have to. Down tilt does the work for him. Especially as a good counter against Samus' Morph Ball.

If you are in the air and he teleports throw out a nair.

This is a risky strategy. The prediction would have to be perfect for this tactic to work. However, if you miss, you get naired or worst. Super risky.

Controlling from the ground is the better idea here. I've been playing against Mewtwo's for far too long to know which moves clang/trade/fall short. It's a good thought, but I've tried your ideas already.

 

[KingChaos]

Many characters can grab you out of morph ball yes. there are like 5 that can't that I found. Mewtwo being one of them. yes he can just dtilt you but its better than being grabbed at 100.

 

[Spralwers]

I've had a lot of luck with ice style actually. Because he's a floaty, ice upsmash turned out to be a pretty really reliable kill move.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

If the mewtwo isn't teleporting everywhere, then zair is a good option. If he is teleporting, a good prediction or bomb can keep you safe. I think nair is also good to stave off teleporting mewtwos.

 

[Litt]

um, when I see a mewtwo constantly teleporting, I drop through on a platform, firing a missile to the open part of the stage, and then an fsmash in the other direction, it normally covers the option the m2 is trying to get, where the last one would be a falling fair on samus, which could be covered by throwing out an up smash instead of the fsmash. If you can cover 2/3 options, you are going to be doing well in that part of the MU and the m2 is most likely going to stop coming in with teleports and play smarter

 

[Litt]

Here is the data I collected from your responses. (Will be edited with time)

Play Style:
- Samus’ Ground game > Mewtwo’s Ground game
- Samus’ Air game < Mewtwo’s Air game
- Fire Beam > Ice Beam in MU. Ice beam doesn’t dent Mewtwo’s Air Game.
- Be mindful of spacing. His Bair is always farther than it looks when he approaches you.
- Control his landing if he is in the air. Use moves like Utilt, Fsmash, Uair, (possibly Dash Attack)
- Lay the pressure, Mewtwo cannot escape pressure very well nor can he escape combos.
- Mewtwos will be aggressive. He will mostly likely have poor defensive play style.

IDEAS:
- Approach: Retreating Fairs
- Approach: Morph Ball into Shield then Grab (Note: Pressing Grab will just do Dtilt)
- Edge Guard: Lay a Bomb in the range he may teleport to. Punish if he hits. Once he learns and begins to actively avoid the bomb, predict the new area he teleports to and lay your hurtbox there.
- Play Style: Camp

APPROACH:
- Zairs, never ending Zairs. Your Zair will still out do all/any of Mewtwo’s moves. Also, time your Zair's slightly differently so he can't read and try to side step.
- Don’t approach too often, only every once in a while.
- UpB OoS response to pressure. (Unadvisable due to bad punishes Mewtwo has if miss or shielded)
- Mewtwo’s Range is long but not disjointed. Can clang with your own moves.
- Mewtwo’s will recover with their UpB, predict and lay a hurt box there before they reappear at that location.

CAUTION:
- Mewtwo has ridiculous powersheild. Wary of missiles coming back at you.
- Avoid letting Mewtwo grab you at high percents at all costs.
- Never be above Mewtwo or challenge him in aerial combat.
- Watch all of his aerial moves.
- Mewtwo’s Dtilt covers more range than what the Boost ball can cover. Thus, Boost ball is hazardous.
- Mewtwo’s Dtilt reaches longer than Samus’ Ftilt. Use extreme caution when shield poking.

STAGE CHOICE:
- High Ceiling is a MUST (See: Mewtwo's Uthrow). Medium Death Zones are ADVISABLE.
- Recommended: Rumble Falls, Skyworld, Battlefield, Lylat Cruise
- Ban: Warioware Inc., Yoshi Story, Fountain of Dreams

Edit Version 1.3. Revisions in clarity and adds list of bannable stages. Reorganized some bullets for better reading.

I actually disagree with the stages you have laid out, the ice missile spam (homing on platform and fall through smash ice missile) is the most useful part of the neutral game in this MU, stages that are best for this MU are, Pokemon stadium 1, Battlefield, Laylat, Yoshi's Story, and then Pkmn stdm 2. SAMUS NEEDS PLATFORMS lol, I forgot to add, its pointless to watch melee mewtwos play because they are nothing like PM mewtwos, Ive played Taj's mewtwo in melee, and it is literally nothing like any mewtwo Ive played in PM, don't waste your time ^_^

 

[CyberMario]

MU information updated.

 

[pizzacato]

With any character that can easily reflect (and maybe any match in general with a powershielding Jedi), I've accustomed myself to shield after a charge shot. It's given me a heightened reaction window, and I've gotten most charge shots powershielded right back.

Just a thing, if you're going for a #yolo charge shot, like I carelessly do.

 

[Chevy]

With any character that can easily reflect (and maybe any match in general with a powershielding Jedi), I've accustomed myself to shield after a charge shot. It's given me a heightened reaction window, and I've gotten most charge shots powershielded right back.

Just a thing, if you're going for a #yolo charge shot, like I carelessly do.

Powershield it back again, Link Style. They'll never be ready for it!

 

[WizKid911]

I agree with most that was said but two things if I am remebering correctly. Fire is better than ice. I have had more luck with up smash and fair against M2 using fire. F-upsmash has a continuous hit that will protect you from teleport if they do so inside or slightly above you. Down throw into I-fair is a bit slow so M2 can just teleport outta there so try down throw into F-fair. Also a continouos hit. My personal opinion is I would rather take a M2 to Final Destinatation. Yes you dont have platforms but neither does he. My experience with my friends M2 is constantly being hit through platforms and remember he can cancel his teleport onto a platform around you. On FD I can keep him at bay with zair. He cant go above it onto another platform, which brings me to my master plan =O. Pay attention to what most mewtwos do after being zair'd. Especially aggressive ones. As soon as I hit with zair his instant reaction is to teleport inside. Thats what you want. You have to learn the spacing for tele it is CRUCIAL in this MU. As soon as he teleports in, depending on distance, either wavedash back into Fsmash or just Fsmash him right in his dome. Samus has extremely good speed when it comes to attacking out of wavedash. Bait him to teleport in and them punish him for it. Also spam missiles off stage. He has a stupid long second jump so if he isnt knocked into the blast zone then he will come back for more. Run off the side of the stage and missile at the same level as the ledge. That will hit more often than you think. If he happens to get you off stage then dont take the hit while coming back, throw out a nair before he gets to you if he is in front and if he comes from above then uair him. On stage uairs also are good to use. They are very quick and if timed correctly will hit M2 before he can hit you. Also be tricky with your charged shots. Keep the charge, be patient. They know you have it and they are scared of being hit. Sometimes they will think they know when to reflect but thats another thing you want. If they are reflect happy then shoot it right after thy do so. That move is long but it also has a lot of lag. Try holding the ledge, fast fall, wall jump and then shoot above the ledge. I have surprised a couple people with that.

 

[Kaosxxxx]

Mewtwo main here if you can successfully predict teleports it hampers is immensely. Also the fact that if we stop teleporting it's free middle spam for you. Nair a lot and I'm sure trades are in your favor. Although in my case power shielding solves my problems. Playing the bait game helps too. I see this matchup being slight in samus favor considering her zair ruins petite shadow balls and grounded approaches from mewtwo

 

[victinivcreate1]

Mewtwo main as well, and I'm also picking up Samus as well (so much fun ). Like Kaosxxxx said, if you can predict Teleports and punish with either up smash (or if you're gutsy, a dair to start a tech chase) Mewtwo will be a lot more afraid to throw out Teleport.

Edgeguarding him? Most Mewtwos aim straight for ledge sweetspot. Wavedash grab edge. Option covered. Now you can laugh at Mewtwo and scream "WHAT YOU GONNA DOOOO"?? You can also try to go for gimps using the Homing Missile. If there's a spike oppurtunity, take it. Samus has a nice recovery and her dair is fairly low risk as well. A sweetspotted bair will also do work vs Mewtwo.

How to KO him? Mewtwo will die off the top easily. Give him a cold freezing dish of up smash. It'll knock his neckbilical cord off at 90-95%. Easiest way to get this? Off a dthrow. Second easiets way? off a read of Mewtwo's Teleport (you need to know how to predict these, its crucial).

You can Screw Attack OoS Mewtwo's WoopHoverNair, I think.

Platform cancel missliles. Shoot da fool down. Pew pew. Supers do like 10-12 and Homings do like 6-7? Good damage to me. Mewtwo dies earlier than Samus does (about 10-15% earlier). Mewtwo's earliest KO move (besides the dair) is forward air (KOs around 105-110 I think), then sweetspotted down smash (its a powerful move, but Samus has great horizontal endurance), then up throw. Samus' earliest KO move is Ice Up Smash. KOing at 95 EAZY. Remember that even if Mewtwo gets a lead, if he's at 90 and you're at 110, its basically an even game.

 

[Litt]

Mewtwo main as well, and I'm also picking up Samus as well (so much fun ). Like Kaosxxxx said, if you can predict Teleports and punish with either up smash (or if you're gutsy, a dair to start a tech chase) Mewtwo will be a lot more afraid to throw out Teleport.

Edgeguarding him? Most Mewtwos aim straight for ledge sweetspot. Wavedash grab edge. Option covered. Now you can laugh at Mewtwo and scream "WHAT YOU GONNA DOOOO"?? You can also try to go for gimps using the Homing Missile. If there's a spike oppurtunity, take it. Samus has a nice recovery and her dair is fairly low risk as well. A sweetspotted bair will also do work vs Mewtwo.

How to KO him? Mewtwo will die off the top easily. Give him a cold freezing dish of up smash. It'll knock his neckbilical cord off at 90-95%. Easiest way to get this? Off a dthrow. Second easiets way? off a read of Mewtwo's Teleport (you need to know how to predict these, its crucial).

You can Screw Attack OoS Mewtwo's WoopHoverNair, I think.

Platform cancel missliles. Shoot da fool down. Pew pew. Supers do like 10-12 and Homings do like 6-7? Good damage to me. Mewtwo dies earlier than Samus does (about 10-15% earlier). Mewtwo's earliest KO move (besides the dair) is forward air (KOs around 105-110 I think), then sweetspotted down smash (its a powerful move, but Samus has great horizontal endurance), then up throw. Samus' earliest KO move is Ice Up Smash. KOing at 95 EAZY. Remember that even if Mewtwo gets a lead, if he's at 90 and you're at 110, its basically an even game.

Yeah... pretty much everything you said is wrong, and is highly DI dependent, you also explain the match up for EXTREAMLY low level play, and this does not translate to more advanced meta... you understand the basics of both samus and mewtwo, but how you articulated everything was very childish and it sounds like you wrote a guide to sell to 12 year olds... Even most of the coverage options are not even the optimal punish, please next time instead of just saying this is the proper way to deal with the MU, imagine there are better players out there... and ask first

 

[victinivcreate1]

Yeah... pretty much everything you said is wrong, and is highly DI dependent, you also explain the match up for EXTREAMLY low level play, and this does not translate to more advanced meta... you understand the basics of both samus and mewtwo, but how you articulated everything was very childish and it sounds like you wrote a guide to sell to 12 year olds... Even most of the coverage options are not even the optimal punish, please next time instead of just saying this is the proper way to deal with the MU, imagine there are better players out there... and ask first

Samus's Up Smash does KO Mewtwo around 95. Platform cancelled missiles do stuff teleport well (if platform cancel missile abuse vs Mewtwo counts as low level play, then I guess ESAM is the scrubbiest Samus ever, right? I wanna see you 0-death Emukiller without resorting to that). You can up smash Mewtwo out of Teleport if you read it. Screw Attack OoS works if the Hover Nair doesnt shield stab (frame 4 I believe is when the first hitbox comes out). How am I wrong with these things? Love for you to specifically point these these things out. I don't mind being wrong, I'm just unsure of how reading your opponent is considered low level play. Just sounds weird. Low level players can't read Teleports, or anything for that matter. They don't adapt when the opponent figures out their strategy. And as for the dthrow ice up smash being DI dependent, I never said the combo was guaranteed. If they DI away you could fair or full/short hop Charge Beam. Or if you wanna have fun, let them DI away, and run at them and up smash. I'm not trying to give a full blown guide to how to play the MU (especially in one where I'm not super versed in). But I can and will give my two cents on how the MU should look like.

 

[Narpas_sword]

 

[Litt]

Samus's Up Smash does KO Mewtwo around 95. Platform cancelled missiles do stuff teleport well (if platform cancel missile abuse vs Mewtwo counts as low level play, then I guess ESAM is the scrubbiest Samus ever, right? I wanna see you 0-death Emukiller without resorting to that). You can up smash Mewtwo out of Teleport if you read it. Screw Attack OoS works if the Hover Nair doesnt shield stab (frame 4 I believe is when the first hitbox comes out). How am I wrong with these things? Love for you to specifically point these these things out. I don't mind being wrong, I'm just unsure of how reading your opponent is considered low level play. Just sounds weird. Low level players can't read Teleports, or anything for that matter. They don't adapt when the opponent figures out their strategy. And as for the dthrow ice up smash being DI dependent, I never said the combo was guaranteed. If they DI away you could fair or full/short hop Charge Beam. Or if you wanna have fun, let them DI away, and run at them and up smash. I'm not trying to give a full blown guide to how to play the MU (especially in one where I'm not super versed in). But I can and will give my two cents on how the MU should look like.

That is your biggest problem! You are trying to explain the match up... BASED off of what you know, which is only the first line of adaptation to combos... I bet you didnt even know a mewtwo can di away far enough so that he can actually teleport away and reestablsih neutral basically making grabs for samus a complete waste of time. What you were stating were FACTS... they were not the match up, Cool UP smash kills around 95% lets say you are actually going against a competent opponent, they are going to DI out of all your down throw set ups... how are you going to get that up smash? That is the match up at that phase of the game. So you are saying... after a move that teleports mewtwo, most likely in your general direction, tossing out ANY move would be a good idea since his priority isnt great?!? :O Up B OoS works on any pressure in the game... and you can also nair OoS, and even bomb OoS on mewtwo into a waveland into jab pressure, Up b comes out frame 5, but you are invincible 1-4. All you said was very vague **** and tryed to apply it to samus by saying throw out moves and here is one finishing move... 95% also IS HUGELY ****ING STAGE DEPENDENT... Take a mewtwo to dreamland and lets see it kill at 95. I have played EmuKiller... in melee and there was a stock I played him at RoM6, where I did 0-death him... one charge shot, so wow you look pretty ****ing stupid now :/ So no when you said you tried to explain the match up is where you were just wrong, everywhere, you made it sound like a dynamic clear cut this is what happens and this is how you counter... you didn't even approach what samus should be doing (aside from.... YAYYYY **** YEAHHHH MISSILES...) ill let you know a little secret... samus actually does have a neutral game :O :O :O :O I know... damn right? MIND BLOWN... me too bro. Now when you apply what you should be doing against what you shouldn't is the actual match... for the perspective of samus.

 

[Litt]

Narpas, you are slowly turning into one of my most favorite sami on here <3

 

[victinivcreate1]

That is your biggest problem! You are trying to explain the match up... BASED off of what you know, which is only the first line of adaptation to combos... I bet you didnt even know a mewtwo can di away far enough so that he can actually teleport away and reestablsih neutral basically making grabs for samus a complete waste of time. What you were stating were FACTS... they were not the match up, Cool UP smash kills around 95% lets say you are actually going against a competent opponent, they are going to DI out of all your down throw set ups... how are you going to get that up smash? That is the match up at that phase of the game. So you are saying... after a move that teleports mewtwo, most likely in your general direction, tossing out ANY move would be a good idea since his priority isnt great?!? :O Up B OoS works on any pressure in the game... and you can also nair OoS, and even bomb OoS on mewtwo into a waveland into jab pressure, Up b comes out frame 5, but you are invincible 1-4. All you said was very vague **** and tryed to apply it to samus by saying throw out moves and here is one finishing move... 95% also IS HUGELY ****ING STAGE DEPENDENT... Take a mewtwo to dreamland and lets see it kill at 95. I have played EmuKiller... in melee and there was a stock I played him at RoM6, where I did 0-death him... one charge shot, so wow you look pretty ****ing stupid now :/ So no when you said you tried to explain the match up is where you were just wrong, everywhere, you made it sound like a dynamic clear cut this is what happens and this is how you counter... you didn't even approach what samus should be doing (aside from.... YAYYYY **** YEAHHHH MISSILES...) ill let you know a little secret... samus actually does have a neutral game :O :O :O :O I know... damn right? MIND BLOWN... me too bro. Now when you apply what you should be doing against what you shouldn't is the actual match... for the perspective of samus.

I see. I'll stand down. But one thing though. Will a Mewtwo be CPing Dreamland? Especially considering Samus' horizontal endurance?

 

[Litt]

I see. I'll stand down. But one thing though. Will a Mewtwo be CPing Dreamland? Especially considering Samus' horizontal endurance?

Hell yeah... the platforms are higher making missiles less effective, bigger stage for an easier time for mewtwo to reestablish neutral by teleporting away from combos, as well as mewtwo is great at gimping samus with her tail if we burn our second jump, and sure it will take an extra 15-20 for mewtwos upthrow to kill on samus but making the missile spam less effective and mewtwo living much longer with good DI, and good combo DI, its a great counterpick for a patient mewtwo

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Hell yeah... the platforms are higher making missiles less effective, bigger stage for an easier time for mewtwo to reestablish neutral by teleporting away from combos, as well as mewtwo is great at gimping samus with her tail if we burn our second jump, and sure it will take an extra 15-20 for mewtwos upthrow to kill on samus but making the missile spam less effective and mewtwo living much longer with good DI, and good combo DI, its a great counterpick for a patient mewtwo

Curses. Patient Mewtwos are my bane.