Samus dtilt KO percent list (please sticky)

[Paradigm]

Samus dtilt KO list

NOTE: This is not 100% completed. Stuff came up interrupting me, I'll get back to this and finish it within one week.

Hive and I found the minimum damage need to KO a character with Samus' dtilt fresh on FD. We both did so independently, and those that overlapped matched exactly, so you can consider much of this double checked. We were both missing chunks that consequently were not double checked and it's quite possible I typo'd some numbers, so if you see a problem let me know and I'll fix this accordingly.

Those without DI were done with the computer on training mode set to "control," with no one controlling the character. Those with DI I did with one hand on each controller, and were done from one extreme side of FD while DIing towards the other. I did not test what happens if an opponent uses a move that effects their movement, such as ZSS's dair.

All I ask in return from the community is to not compare me to M2K for this.

Interesting things I learned:

- Samus' dtilt KOs at the same damage irrelevant of how much it's been used. That's right folks, no need to hold back on it to ensure earlier KOs. I'd appreciate it if someone double-checked this, just to be sure I'm not overlooking something, but it looks like a rather important discovery. Ends up I was in fact over looking something: moves don't degrade in training mode, always fresh.

- The dtilt always does 14 damage (my first tip that it doesn't degrade). Again, training mode.

- The dtilt has the same knock back irrelevant of what part of the hitbox (horizontally) is used. It doesn't matter if you tipper it or are right up next to the opponent. It probably will KO a tad bit earlier if the opponent hits the top of the hitbox but I didn't test it.

- The dtilt doesn't degrade over time (unlike the nair). I found if I do the dtilt too early, just before the opponent's invincibility drops, it stays out and still hits a number of frames later doing the same damage and knock back.

- DIing will help people survive Samus' dtilt roughly 20% longer. I'll get an exact average after completing this.

These are organized from most difficult to KO to least difficult to KO without DI.

Name noDI/DI

King Dedede: 160/foo

Snake: 154/foo

Donkey Kong: 152/foo

Captain Falcon: 148/foo

Bowser: 145/175

Ganondorf: 145/167

Ike: 145/foo

Link: 142/163

Wario: 140/159

Charizard: 140/foo

Wolf: 140/foo

Yoshi: 138/159

R.O.B.: 136/156

Squirtle: 136/foo

Samus: 135/157

Pit: 132/154

Lucario: 132/foo

Sonic: 132/foo

Mario: 131/151

Luigi: 130/150

Marth: 129/foo

Ness: 129/foo

Diddy: 128/148

Lucas: 128/foo

Toon Link: 127/147

Falco: 125/foo

Ice Climbers: 124/144

Olimar: 122/foo

Peach: 121/141

Pikachu: 121/foo

Zero Suit Samus: 120/139

Zelda: 119/137

Shiek: 118/137

Kirby: 117/134

Metaknight: 116/136

Fox: 116/foo

Mr. Game and Watch: 113/foo

Ivysaur: 109/foo

Jigglypuff: 105/foo

Changelog:

6Jun2008
- Created dtilt KO percent list
- Fixed training mode issue
7Jun2008
- Added Hive's numbers, double checked overlap
- Organized list

 

[0RLY]

...

I found the minimum damage need to KO a character with Samus' dtilt on FD, both with and without DI. The "noDI" ones were done with the computer on training mode set to "control", with no one controlling the character. Those with DI I did with one hand on each controller, and were done from one extreme side of FD while DIing towards the other. I did not test what happens if an opponent uses a move that effects their movement, such as ZSS's dair.

All I ask in return from the community is to not compare me to M2K for this.

Interesting things I learned:

- Samus' dtilt KOs at the same damage irrelevant of how much it's been used. That's right folks, no need to hold back on it to ensure earlier KOs. I'd appreciate it if someone double-checked this, just to be sure I'm not overlooking something, but it looks like a rather important discovery.

- The dtilt always does 14 damage (my first tip that it doesn't degrade).

- The dtilt KOs at the same damage irrelevant of what part of the hitbox (horizontally) is used. It doesn't matter if you tipper it or are right up next to the opponent. It probably will KO a tad bit earlier if the opponent hits the top of the hitbox but I didn't test it.

- The dtilt doesn't degrade over time (unlike the nair). I found if I do the dtilt too early, just before the opponent's invincibility drops, it stays out and still hits a number of frames later doing the same damage and knock back.

...

The attack doesn't decay because you're in TRAINING MODE. It will decay in an actual match. I could've sworn there was another thread like this, but I guess it got swept away in the sea of useless threads. Thank you for helping the Samus community though. I appreciate your effort. It would help if you organize it from, most difficult to kill to easiest to kill.

 

[Paradigm]

Arg. I got so excited. Ah, well, shucks. My bad. I'm surprised I didn't read about that somewhere, seems like the kinda thing I'd take note of.

I'm doing it in the order they're found on the character list. After I do the other half I'll gladly reorganize it.

 

[Crystanium]

This will be beneficial in some ways, Paradigm. At Final Destination, Battlefield, and Smashville, Samus' d-tilt can defeat Mario at 131%. The other two stages assume that Mario is standing on the ground and not on the platforms. However, a large stage like New Pork City, Mario isn't KO'd at 131%. So, if you plan on finding out what percent each character takes to be KO'd, you might want to do this by categorizing it into three parts: large, medium, and small.

Large: New Pork City
Medium: Final Destination
Small: Battlefield

That's just a thought. If you need help, feel free to ask anyone of us here. I'm certain that we'd be happy to help.

 

[Paradigm]

I know when you create stages you can chose from three different sizes, but you can also change how high the stage is in the map. KO percent would be different on each stage, no?

I figured if I was going to pick a stage to do it on it'd be either FD or battlefield. I chose FD so there was no question about platforms - it's always the same. Other tourney legal stages like Yoshi's or Halberd have varying heights, too. Figured it'd best to keep it simple and stick with FD.

If I were to do multiple stages they'd all be tourney legal ones; no pork city. I can't imagine too many people who'd play casually enough to play on pork city but competitively enough to look up the exact percent they can KO.

It could be interesting to compare how much earlier you can KO on Battlefield's platforms vs the floor, or things like that. I doubt I'll go through each character on each platform for each stage but I may try to get a rule of thumb to post here. (eg "You can usually KO on battlefield's top platform between foo and bar percent lower than you can on the floor").

I thought this could be useful in case, say, you were to run across a character you don't normally play against while at a tournament. It'd be quite useful not to have to guess and check what percent to go for the dtilt at during a match with something on the line.

 

[Hive]

lol this is so kwl! Its funny cuz I just got done doing the same thing ^^
all my numbers match too, if that is evidence of anything :D
yea, some of these numbers really surprised me....
I never expected Squirtle to be way heavier than Ivy.... and Captain falcon at more than ganon??? weeeiirrd

 

[Paradigm]

Squirt isn't. Fire isn't very effective against him, and it's super effective against ivysaur. Spaceballs mentioned this before in some thread.

It's good we double checked each other. I'll add yours to this and reorganize it.

 

[Hive]

the numbers i sent you are all at fd when the character is on ground.... your first number I think?
^^ again thank you for doing this!

 

[Hive]

I'll try to get some stuff on bair, dair and dsmash too... just in case one of these might ko some characters (like squirtle) at lower percentages than dtilt. I totally forgot about the elemental damage thing ;_(

 

[Paradigm]

I had considered those, but it's a lot harder to get them consistent. With FD it's all flat, so vertical KOs go at the same percent irrelevant of where you do them, but horizontal KO% vary greatly depending on where you are on the stage. Also the dsmash shoots people off at radically different directions depending on the exact part of the hitbox that lands.

Still, if you do go through with those send 'em to me and I'll add them here and rename this thread to something more appropriate.

 

[Hive]

The attack doesn't decay because you're in TRAINING MODE. It will decay in an actual match.

Isn't like if you do seven hits or something that aren't dtilt the damage resets though???
I think I heard that somewhere...

 

[Hive]

uncharged dsmash takes about an extra 10-20% more to ko... with the exception of *squirtle who actually kos 15% lower than dtilt (120%)
and dair takes about 30% more than dtilt to ko...