Sakurai: Villager was planned for Brawl, talks character decisions

[HylianHero]

Well that was certainly a nice read. Makes me wonder what other characters had been left out besides the Forbidden Seven.

this may sound stupid, and I could probably make an estimated guess, but who are the forbidden seven? (I mean I know what that means haha I'm just wondering who they are)

 

[TheTuninator]

No, that isn't how we define WTF. Thinly veiled character hatred detected.

Wait, what? I like WFT a lot. She's undeniably still somewhat controversial though, albeit much less so than at the reveal. I also like ROB and G&W, and while I wasn't here for their reveals all conversation I have seen about it indicates that they were also unexpected and controversial.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

this may sound stupid, and I could probably make an estimated guess, but who are the forbidden seven? (I mean I know what that means haha I'm just wondering who they are)

From a SmashWikia:

• Dixie Kong
• Roy
• Dr. Mario
• Pra & Mai (Plusle & Minun)
• Toon Zelda/Tetra
• Mewtwo

I don't remember what any developer's statement on them were, but they look like a mixture of clones that were decided upon to flesh out the game with if they hit time constraints. I bet the case was the list would be much larger if they implemented a more unique character instead, specifically that it would still include Wolf and Toon Link and probably a few others.

 

[peeup]

I just have such a hard time imagining his moveset being anything other than punches... I mean, WFT actually has a lot of material to go off; she has the yoga moves, she has the strength exercises, she has every single Wii Fit game. To be fair, I've never played Punch-Out, but it seems like all Little Mac has going for him is punching.

Forgive the ignorance, but is Punch-Out a fighting game?

 

[SirPainsalot]

I just have such a hard time imagining his moveset being anything other than punches... I mean, WFT actually has a lot of material to go off; she has the yoga moves, she has the strength exercises, she has every single Wii Fit game. To be fair, I've never played Punch-Out, but it seems like all Little Mac has going for him is punching.

Forgive the ignorance, but is Punch-Out a fighting game?

If you wish. It doesn't really have a genre, Next Level Games (developed Punch-Out!! Wii) called it more a puzzle game than a boxing game.

The thing about Little Mac as that he has many ideas for a Final Smash already, (Giga Mac, star punch, etc) he can use many moves he has from previous game, and the fighters he boxes with have many abilities that he could also use. Not only that, he stars in one of the most iconic game series of all time with a recent reboot, AND he can bring along his trainer Doc Louis to give character and funny moments with him.

Also please don't talk about punching only. There is no character that only punches, and that alone would make him unique in Smash Bros. Not to mention there are elements in Punch-Out that Sakurai can come up with that can work in a moveset... Including a star system.

 

[peeup]

^^^ Fair enough, fair enough. Honestly, I know so very little about Punch Out, basically what I'm doing in my head is comparing Mac being Smash to Steve Fox in Tekken. In a game where punches and kicks are 99% of the attacks, a character who only punches stands out as being noticeably different. However, in Smash, a game where attacks are spins/swords/magic/various other things, someone who only uses punches seems noticeably different-- but in a very bland way.

This star system thing, though, is intriguing. I very much approve of any character that has any sort of special mechanic (Pikmin being used as ammo, Aura increasing damage as you take damage, stamina/forced switch of PT.)

So how does the star thing work in Punch Out?

 

[SirPainsalot]

I don't want to derail this thread into a Little Mac discussion but the star system could work in many different ways, probably better explained by the Little Mac Thread.

In Punch-Out, you gain up to three stars when the opponent is caught off-guard by a well-timed punch from Little Mac. The more stars, the more powerful Little Mac's Star Punch is. One idea (not mine) is to make it so Little Mac has a counter special vs attacks like Marth. Each counter increases the star by one, and thus makes the supposed up-b move (Star Punch) much more stronger with increased knockback and maybe go farther up.

All the way to three and you have one great recovery move + killing move.

There are many ideas like that are possible and I'm sure if Sakurai takes a look at him, he could see the potential in making him a very unique character. Honestly the only thing I'm scared about is if Sakurai doesn't see his potential and skips out on him because of it.
However the fact that he was an assist trophy last game greatly increases his chance of being playable, as I believe he would look into him this time around at the very least.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Sakurai managed to create creative movesets for Wii Fit Trainer, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, and R.O.B., so I'm sure he can create some for Little Mac. He actually has a lot of variety in his combat in the two punchout games, so I wouldn't count Little Mac out of the running.

It's a question of what inspires Sakurai's creativity. You do well to point out that what inspires his creativity isn't what inspires ours, but who knows if Little Mac does or not? It's not a question of could Little Mac have a move set, but does Sakurai see the vision for a move set for Little Mac.

 

[peeup]

I don't want to derail this thread into a Little Mac discussion but the star system could work in many different ways, probably better explained by the Little Mac Thread.

In Punch-Out, you gain up to three stars when the opponent is caught off-guard by a well-timed punch from Little Mac. The more stars, the more powerful Little Mac's Star Punch is. One idea (not mine) is to make it so Little Mac has a counter special vs attacks like Marth. Each counter increases the star by one, and thus makes the supposed up-b move (Star Punch) much more stronger with increased knockback and maybe go farther up.

All the way to three and you have one great recovery move + killing move.

There are many ideas like that are possible and I'm sure if Sakurai takes a look at him, he could see the potential in making him a very unique character. Honestly the only thing I'm scared about is if Sakurai doesn't see his potential and skips out on him because of it.
However the fact that he was an assist trophy last game greatly increases his chance of being playable, as I believe he would look into him this time around at the very least.

Interesting. If the game is more combo-oriented, then I think the star system could be a more general more hits=more stars kind of thing. Then you can either use the stars for a big finishing move, or to buff up individual specials or something.

 

[Big-Cat]

^^^ Fair enough, fair enough. Honestly, I know so very little about Punch Out, basically what I'm doing in my head is comparing Mac being Smash to Steve Fox in Tekken. In a game where punches and kicks are 99% of the attacks, a character who only punches stands out as being noticeably different. However, in Smash, a game where attacks are spins/swords/magic/various other things, someone who only uses punches seems noticeably different-- but in a very bland way.

I'm sure I've told you this before, but there's more to a character than what they fight with. The key thing is HOW they fight. Steve is noticeably different yes, but disregarding the fact that he has no kicks (save for I think one attack), he's as different as all the other characters are from each other. I can't play Steve like Eddie like Heihachi like Jin like Xiaoyu like Julia like King like Yoshimitsu, etc.

 

[FalKoopa]

Lol, KumaOso has 12345 posts.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

I'm sure I've told you this before, but there's more to a character than what they fight with. The key thing is HOW they fight. Steve is noticeably different yes, but disregarding the fact that he has no kicks (save for I think one attack), he's as different as all the other characters are from each other. I can't play Steve like Eddie like Heihachi like Jin like Xiaoyu like Julia like King like Yoshimitsu, etc.

Darn you KumoOso! It's completely off topic, but because of your avatar, I had a dream about Simba being announced for SSB4.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Little Mac using punches is no different than Marth using a sword with one hand (if anything Mac has more to work with than Marth's source material.

Just like Marth has slashes and thrusts, Little mac has straights and hooks. Not to mention he could also have different types of punches, a punch that induces dizzy state, a punch that could dodge while he executes it, a counterattack, uppercuts. This isn't really an issue if you ask me. Heck, even the cheapest way of including him would be borrowing other boxer's moves just like Ness did with his friends.


I just hope the guy is revealed soon to defend his ring.

 

[Big-Cat]

Darn you KumoOso! It's completely off topic, but because of your avatar, I had a dream about Simba being announced for SSB4.

Funny thing is that I posted my own 12-character Disney roster in the social thread a few weeks ago. Simba was one of the characters.

Little Mac using punches is no different than Marth using a sword with one hand (if anything Mac has more to work with than Marth's source material.

He has hundreds, if not thousands of years worth of boxing to work with.

 

[peeup]

I'm sure I've told you this before, but there's more to a character than what they fight with. The key thing is HOW they fight. Steve is noticeably different yes, but disregarding the fact that he has no kicks (save for I think one attack), he's as different as all the other characters are from each other. I can't play Steve like Eddie like Heihachi like Jin like Xiaoyu like Julia like King like Yoshimitsu, etc.

Yeah I agree with this. And my main beef with Lil Mac is a weak one, I admit that. Its just like... in Tekken, despite the fact that everyone plays very differently (not arguing this at all, I love Tekken and I appreciate the varied character design), if you boil it down to aesthetic basics, its mostly just punches and kicks. Characters like Steve, Christie/Eddie, Devil Jin, Yoshimitsu, etc. that have a very apparent difference in their fighting styles hugely stand out because of their focus on punches/ducks, dancing shenanigans, lasers pew pew, and swordplay, respectively.

Mac would fit in just fine in a game like Tekken for the same reason the above characters do. He'd focus solely on punches, which is unlike nearly every other character. In Smash, sure, his focus on punches would be unlike nearly every other character, but in a less exciting way. From a purely aesthetic view, I don't think its as fun to see a character with a host of different punches vs a character like G&W who has a wide array of different methods of attack. @Shinhed, this applies to Marth as well. I don't really like him aesthetically because every attack (barring like 3 of them) can be adequately described as a sword slash. That isn't much variety.

From a gameplay standpoint, Marth is awesome. From the spacing/tipper game, to his wavedash length (in Melee at least), he's a lot of fun to play as and against. I have no doubt that Little Mac would be the same. Quite frankly, you could take the dullest character in existence and give him the most amazingly deep, complex, and fun moveset imaginable. It doesn't take much. MYM has roughly ten thousand examples of this.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm dumb for not liking Little Mac for the reasons that I have, but at the same time I don't really think I can be swayed. Gameplay-wise, I'm sure he'll be just as fun as any other character. But, similar to characters like Marth, there is very little variety he can have in the aesthetic of his gameplay. Captain Falcon at least has his manly persona to help him out to be a badass normal. Mac would potentially be a badass normal... but without the badass.

 

[Big-Cat]

The aesthetics really only matter to a certain extent. Mac would actually be "normal" amongst a bunch of characters that uses swords, electricity, lasers, and FREAKING YOGA to fight with, ironically making him stand out.

 

[peeup]

The aesthetics really only matter to a certain extent. Mac would actually be "normal" amongst a bunch of characters that uses swords, electricity, lasers, and FREAKING YOGA to fight with, ironically making him stand out.

Haha true, but standing out by being exceptionally bland isn't really a plus.

 

[UberMadman]

Forgive the ignorance, but is Punch-Out a fighting game?

No actually, not in the traditional sense. Comparing putting Little Mac in Smash Bros. to putting in a character from Tekken isn't fairly accurate because it isn't a matter of transferring a character from one fighting game to another. Punch Out!! is a game about the underdog protagonist, Little Mac, a boxer who's only 17 years old and 4' 8", (though for some reason he's supposedly 5' 7" in the Wii version, but I like the classic version better,) who has to battle his way to the top of the worldwide boxing championship. It's completely 1 player and doesn't play at all like a fighting game in the traditional sense; in fact, it's almost more of a puzzle game. Because you are always the underdog, you have to beat out each of your opponents by exploiting patterns in each of their fighting styles instead of overcoming them with brute force alone. I'm not the expert on it, but it is really quite interesting, and you should look it up.