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Sakurai: "If we Direct Smash ONLY at The Competitive Players, It Will Have No Future."

Ganreizu

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
670
Dude. The title of this news post has a COMPLETELY different meaning from what sakurai actually said. Saying smash has no future as a competitive game isn't the same at all as saying if you play the game competitively the game itself has no future. He's saying that by it becoming popular only as a competitive game it's audience would be smaller than if it were popular as just a game that is played for fun because the audience is broader. The amount of people that play "actual" fighting games casually is so much smaller than the amount of people that play smash casually.
 

IvyDivyHorkyDorky

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
24
I regret purchasing and supporting smash 4 now -_-.
All you have to do is stop right now! I'm sorry you can't take back any time you spent on it. The thing is with me, I'm having so much fun with it and all my friends that it would be a disservice to say that :/. I'm sorry Smash 4 didn't turn out how you wanted to. Next time you should maybe go over a friends house before you by it to try it. I was the friend that everyone came over to try haha!
 

ThePlacidPlatypus

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
619
I think that Sakurai forgets that Melee exists some times. Or rather, he has a blurred perception of what Melee was. A ton of people played Melee as a party game, but it was deep enough that people still play it as a competitive game to this day, over a decade later. Just because a game can be competitive doesn't mean it has to turn away casuals. How could he tell competitive players to play other fighting games when there is no other fighting game like Smash?
 

SuaveChaser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
311
All you have to do is stop right now! I'm sorry you can't take back any time you spent on it. The thing is with me, I'm having so much fun with it and all my friends that it would be a disservice to say that :/. I'm sorry Smash 4 didn't turn out how you wanted to. Next time you should maybe go over a friends house before you by it to try it. I was the friend that everyone came over to try haha!
I'm enjoying the game so far it isn't perfect and has it own set of issues. I was originally gonna buy it used due i didn't want to support nintendo or suckerai.
 

Yoshi Kirishima

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
1,501
Location
Rochester Hills
I think once again we are misinterpreting what he is saying. Which is understandable, because first his words are recorded in text and then translated, and then finally we have to read it ourselves.

He seems to be saying that Smash isn't a very good competitive game because, for example, it doesn't have as many inputs or as high of a technical skill curve than other games... but wait, no he isn't saying that. First of all that makes no sense. We all know Smash Bros is a genius franchise that has so much depth and complexity but with much simpler and more intuitive inputs than traditional fighting games. So what is he saying?

When he's talking about serious gamers, hardcore games, and competitive fighting games, he's specifically referring to games that have a high technical requirement. When he's saying that you need skill, he's talking about technical skill. That's why when he talks about the kind of "competitive game" he does not want, he compares it to a sport, because they are hard to play physically. Not because he thinks depth and complexity (strategy, mindgames, etc.) are bad. If he did, he wouldn't compare it to sports but to chess or starcraft or something.

This isn't the first time he referred to technically challenging games as "competitive" games. In the past he's described such games as "maniac" and "hardcore" (the latter of which he uses here). When he says he can make a more hardcore game, and that he can make it fast and increase the inputs, he is alluding to Melee (intentionally or unintentionally). Therefore, he is NOT saying that Melee is a better competitive game, but rather the only conclusion you can make from what he's said is that Melee simply is more technically challenging.

I think when you look at it in this perspective, this initially confusing statement makes much more sense

If we downgraded* the game to make it more spectator friendly, that would be a bad thing.
Actually there are possible 2 interpretations of this (does anyone know what the japanese really means?), but they both support my interpretation.

1) How do you make something entertaining to spectators? Have the players do crazy techs, which would "downgrade" the game because he doesn't want it to be technically and physically demanding. He wants it to be easy to learn, impossible to master, but without a high technical skill floor too.

2) How do you make something more spectator friendly? You make things easier to see and understand, and that means removing advanced techniques, depth, and complexity. Surely removing those things would make a worse [competitive] game, and indeed he agrees that it would be a bad thing.

His next few words confirm that he's referring specifically to the unwanted physical aspect of the more technically challenging games.

Smash needs to be a game that new players can play.
I'm sure we can all agree on that. Easy to learn, impossible to master.

So no, he isn't saying Melee is a better competitive game than Smash 4, and he isn't saying that Smash 4 has no future as a competitive game. Replace his use of the word "competitive" (remember translating will lose connotations and twist meanings) with "technically difficult", and reread his words:

Smash 4 as a technically difficult game has no future if you are expecting it to be like those "hardcore" games that have really high technical skill requirements. He isn't saying anything against Smash 4's design and he isn't saying that Smash 4 was not made to be a good competitive game. He's talking specifically of the act of Smash 4 being played by people who desire a very technically demanding game, and that Smash 4 won't satisfy them. Hence, it has "no future" as a technically difficult game.

In the interview he says that he thinks it's good that Smash 4 can be played in so many different ways, which only supports that he is happy that people play Smash competitively. If you interpret his words so that he doesn't think Smash 4's competitive scene has a future, that interpretation would contradict this.


This is what I currently think, open to change.
 
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JayTheUnseen

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
2,099
I really feel he should forget his aversion to competition,and be honored people are willing to take the game he worked on so seriously.
 

MezzoMe

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
517
Location
My home(Italy)
I don't know what think of this... Sakurai is REALLY against the competitive scene :/ Competitive gameplay is a huge part of why Smash is as popular as it is. Why is he so afraid of it? It's not like people are gonna avoid the game if it gets more competitive- it can still be played as a party game. And new players getting beaten by experiences players is not something new. It's like this in Smash 4. Sad to hear Sakurai thinks like this. I don't know if he's right with the no-future thing, or if he has completely misunderstood. This also makes me wonder if the (possible) next Smash will be better without Sakurai. That said, thinking about that Smash wouldn't exist without him - well, I feel it won't be Smash without Sakurai :/
WTFlying Little Mac (I'm using this too much already lol)do you think he meant with
If people want to play seriously 1v1, they should do
 

4theRECORD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
264
Location
Kanto,Japan
3DS FC
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"Looks at original article"
"Looks at translated post"
These are the times that I feel that Japanese and English are two very different languages. Not that this is a mistranslation, it's a good one: just that Japanese was never made with the intention of translating it to English, and thus results in some misconceptions.

Anyhoo, what our man said in the article was one that at least made sense. You may not agree with it, sure, but it is a valid opinion with acceptable reasoning. Anyone who knows the death of the fighting and shoot-em-up genre would know what I mean.

I was more interested in the fact that customizable specials could be cut in the next game, that amiibos became Smash compatible in Feb, and that Sakurai considers himself to be in the casual crowd.

...Oh, and that when Sakurai showed the Robin trailer to Intelligent Studios, they responded "Wow, you've nailed Chrom's personality!!"

Man, he dosen't get a break, does he ?

P.S. that "downgraded" stuff means "making a game so that it is best enjoyable by merely watching".
As in making the game similiar to, say current Melee or Project M.
 
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SuaveChaser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
311
That's just plain stupid to say, Smash 4 has nothing wrong at all, they removed a lot of BS Brawl had and made various competitive modes.
I was gonna get the game i didn't want to support nintendo or suckerai since he cleary doesn't give a damn about anyone who isn't the casual demographic but i caved in because i thought things would be different.
 

SphericalCrusher

Hardcore Gamer
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I couldn't agree more that Smash is not really for competitives. It wasn't designed to be a serious fighting game. It's a party game more than anything else. There's no harm in playing competitively, but other games are far more suited for that than Smash.

I would imagine that Pokken will be much more for competitives actually.
If it was truly not for competitive play, there would be no "For Glory" 1v1 no items mode. Originally, no but now, it's meant for everyone IMO. I think he's just saying that if it's only played as a competitive game, then that's not good.
 

MasterExocuter

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
63
Location
TX
Hmmmm... Sakurai says we should just go play another more competitive fighter because smash isn't supposed to be competitive? Soul Calibur Link just isn't the same ;-;
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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I regret purchasing and supporting smash 4 now -_-.
So, you can't enjoy the game if Sakurai says that it isn't meant to be competitive?
Tell me, do people stopped playing and enjoying Melee because Sakurai said he didn't want the game to be that competitive?
 

Dunc

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
12
I think as people play, whether its a competitive game or not, someone is going to get better than the other and eventually one has an advantage. That's what Sakurai was trying to avoid but it is inevitable. Just look at Smash 4. There are Plenty of players that I definitely cannot beat. So he should stop trying so hard to make it a game that gives no advantages.
 

paxinchristo

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
861
I respect Sakurai. I really do! The man has created a series of games that my friends and I love very deeply. For my friends, it's been a game that we can play casually at parties or when we're just chilling and want to get some friendly 1v1s in. For me (since about 6 months ago, at least), Smash is a game that, while fun as a party game, is also SUPER fun as a competitive fighting game. And this is where I think Sakurai is kind of missing the point.

Even though he wants everyone to have fun and enjoy the game no matter what way the want to play, he always seems to lean more on the casual side than the competitive side. Nothing wrong with that. However, I'm pretty sure a lot of people on here can agree with me in saying that we have more fun with Smash AS A COMPETITIVE GAME RATHER THAN A PARTY GAME. Free-for-Alls and Smash Tour and low-level 1v1s are still fun, but I honestly get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of Smash playing high-level, competitive 1v1 matches. This is what (imo, at least) Sakurai either doesn't realize, or he realizes but doesn't care.

TLDR: Sakurai needs to remember that, while a lot of people enjoy Smash casually, there are many, many people that enjoy Smash *more* as a competitive game.
 

Globe

I only care for waifus
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
99
I think in the end of the day (or year in this matter) we need to see that in general Smash Brothers is made for the regular gamer (or 'casuals' if you want to call them that way) and not for competitive players. No matter if you like it or not that is just how it is.

Sakurai made the same comments when Brawl was released and the community was actually going die out if it wasn't for some struck in luck.

Articles like these show the true colors of the competitive smash community.
 

IvyDivyHorkyDorky

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
24
I'm enjoying the game so far it isn't perfect and has it own set of issues. I was originally gonna buy it used due i didn't want to support nintendo or suckerai.
Wow it sounds tough not wanting to support the people who make the things you like! Did you know he made the other games too?
 
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SuaveChaser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
311
So, you can't enjoy the game if Sakurai says that it isn't meant to be competitive?
Tell me, do people stopped playing and enjoying Melee because Sakurai said he didn't want the game to be that competitive?
I never said i stopped enjoying the game i just don't like the fact i supported someone who doesn't care about anyone who isn't the casual demographic i should of waited and got used.
 

Bobojack

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
79
I love playing Melee casually AND competitively. The reason why I prefer smash4 when I play with items is in NO way the physics of the game nor the speed. Smash4 has better graphics and more things. Smash 4 plus Melee physics would be perfect for everyone in my opinion.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

Lady Layton| Trap Queen♥
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Maybe people will finally realize how dumb Sakurai is and stop worshipping him now.
Maybe you need more salt.
Salty Duane.gif

All in all Just chill out. you dont have to support sakurai if you dont want to, Im sure calling him an idiot will only make you seem like an idiot as well
 
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IvyDivyHorkyDorky

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
24
I never said i stopped enjoying the game i just don't like the fact i supported someone who doesn't care about anyone who isn't the casual demographic i should of waited and got used.
Well good luck trying to support other games! I heard there were other developers and publishers more despicable than Sakurai and Nintendo.
 

gamestationpro

Smash Cadet
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:'( sakurai why? I play blazblue street fighter marvel vs capcom killer instinct and mortal kombat but none of them even come close to smash in my book. Smash is a game that isnt a button masher. it isnt a game that makes you remember hundreds of button inputsinputs. It is a game where every match is unique and each players personality comes out in the way they play. Playing competitively and getting stomped doesnt deter players it's the reason why we're all here! We all had to start off noobs and we all probably didnt win our first tournament but we kept going because it was fun and challenging. I came to my first brawl tournament a casual who just wanted to play the game with a load of people. I got destroyed my first match but i didnt quit at all i kept playing and wanted to get better. It's my dream to one day play at the level of mew2king and mang0. If anything getting beaten so badly got me into smash bros! My drive to get better at brawl drove me to research the other games melee and 64 and today i'm going all out on smash wii u. I really wish sakurai would understand my passion for his work
 

Darkjolly

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
23
What a great way to end the year. Happy new year smash bros. Keep smashing in 2015 and pray for iwata to direct the next smash
 

Rags

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
593
Location
Maryland
As if the SMash bros Civil war needed any more fuel, Sakurai gets a tanker of Kerosene and dumps is ALL over the fire...
 

SmokedCarpenter

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
35
Location
New Jersey
I don't get why people are trying so hard to force Smash 4 to be competitive. If you want to play competitive smash just play melee, if you want to have fun with a new game then play Smash 4. Melee was an accident, we're never going to have another smash game on a level that competitive, so people need to stop trying to force the sequels into being competitive when the code just isn't there. We shouldn't feel obligated to try and play smash 4 competitively if we still enjoy playing melee. I just don't get that logic.
 

JayTheUnseen

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
2,099
The more Sakurai says,the more it seems like he just isn't very good at public speaking.

I do not have salt,but I know others WILL get offended by these things.
 
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Sabaca

Smash Apprentice
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Sakurai is stupid. He doesn't understand that he doesn't have to chose between competetive and casual but rather could provide both.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
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I never said i stopped enjoying the game i just don't like the fact i supported someone who doesn't care about anyone who isn't the casual demographic i should of waited and got used.
Of all of the reasons to boycott a product, that seems like a very petty one.

He simply said that he doesn't prefer the competitive side that much, and if he didn't care as much as you think then Smash 4 wouldn't be what it is today. He removed tripping, adjusted the speed and physics, made a For Glory and For Fun room; this game appeals to the middle ground between casuals and competitives. Actions speak louder than words, and his' really shows. He may not be thrilled about the tourney side but that doesn't mean he is completely indifferent.

Sakurai is stupid. He doesn't understand that he doesn't have to chose between competetive and casual but rather could provide both.
Nah, he simply has a very different (and stubborn) opinion. And he did that already, it's called Smash 4.
 
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Zink Imp

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
767
Location
Manhattan, NYC
And that 5% of the game has given a game +10 years of replayability. Or is there any casual who still plays Melee, is there?

In regards to your previous opinion, what's wrong with people actually wanting to win because of skill and not "lel random bob-omb and u lost gg bruh I'm better than you"?
If you had skill, you would have picked up that bomb.
 

JayTheUnseen

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
2,099
and the more fan riot and have tantrums, the more him calling you all children makes sense
As I said in my edit,I do not have salt.I don't care what Sakurai thinks,I will enjoy his game however I get the most enjoyment from it.
But I know not everyone thinks that way.
 
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