Rush Cancel, new tech or demo glitch?

[Oatmealski]

Megaman has a combo breaker.

This looks pretty dumb, do you think the developers will fix this?

 

[Hydde]

Seems like a legit move. This demo i think is based on the final build?.

Im fearing for the worst, because seems like a bug but will save megaman azz in every multihit situation

 

[Kalierdarke]

There's still the problem that he loses his doublejump from this, anyone with a good air game can punish it, so it's a risky move. However it is a way to stop long ground based combos(like mario's 0-67%). I really don't think it'll be that big, just a tool that might help mega's play some.

 

[joelsdaman1]

What is this nonsense??

Seriously, that seems useful.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

This is definitely a glitch. It should not happen. Sakurai would not allow a character to escape a grab or combo like that intentionally. I believe it should be patched up ASAP.

 

[MixMasterMudkip]

I think it's fine glitch or not. My big question is if Sonic can do this as well considering they have similar Up Bs.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If he loses his double jump that is a big deal. He lost a key form of safety.

 

[hotdogturtle]

• Yes it'll benefit the competitive game.
• No, the glitch is too broken.

Where's the "none of the above" option?

 

[Tybis]

Not broken, just really annoying.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

It's a perk of his. Nothing game breaking.

 

[ChooChoo]

In the same stream there was a Mario v. Mario (later on, I believe). Mario A did a down throw and Mario B was able to do an up special immediately after, and I haven't heard anyone say he's broken. I think that hitstun is practically inexistent at a low % and the vast majority of PJs will be able to do the same one way or another.

 

[Reila]

This looks pretty dumb, do you think the developers will fix this?

They could patch it via eShop. It is too late to fix it before the release, the games are already done for weeks.

unless it was fixed before the demo was made, since it was probably made a while back

I have my doubts about that

 

[Bladeviper]

They could patch it via eShop. It is too late to fix it before the release, the games are already done for weeks.

unless it was fixed before the demo was made, since it was probably made a while back

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Escape a low-% combo in exchange for terrible positioning and opening yourself up to being juggled.
Pretty sure this won't be too big a deal. I don't particularly care whether it's a bug and patched out or not.

 

[Renji64]

Megaman has a get out of jail free card.

 

[Thinkaman]

This applies to all up-b inputs, though only some up-bs come out fast enough to escape moves.

It puts the character in a helpless state. Megaman, and presumably Sonic/G&W, are put in a slightly less helpless state than others.

 

[Jahnathan]

Why is this such a big deal? He can't do anything in the air and is super vunerable

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

In the same stream there was a Mario v. Mario (later on, I believe). Mario A did a down throw and Mario B was able to do an up special immediately after, and I haven't heard anyone say he's broken. I think that hitstun is practically inexistent at a low % and the vast majority of PJs will be able to do the same one way or another.

Hmm, yeah this might be what the case is.

 

[Thinkaman]

This was explicitly shown to not be true. It is a unique property of up-bs, or at least the up-bs in the Demo.

Of course, Link, Pikachu, and Villager do not have Up-bs that do anything to be of use in this context.

 

[Metal B]

Looking at this video, the Rush Cancel can also be a curse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksMduEXItBU
If Mega Man escapes a combo with his Up+B, opponents can simply use Rush to chase after him, hit him in his helpless state and Star KO him at the ceiling. This could mean, that Rush Cancel can be a horrible option, if your opponent knows how to use Rush against you.

 

[Hydde]

Looking at this video, the Rush Cancel can also be a curse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksMduEXItBU
If Mega Man escapes a combo with his Up+B, opponents can simply use Rush to chase after him, hit him in his helpless state and Star KO him at the ceiling. This could mean, that Rush Cancel can be a horrible option, if your opponent knows how to use Rush against you.

Lol ,

but thats like pretty difficult to replicate. Most chars will not be able to punish him like that think

 

[Metal B]

Lol ,

but thats like pretty difficult to replicate. Most chars will not be able to punish him like that think

All depends on the possibility, if a character can short hop (and properly fast fall) on Rush and follow Mega Man before he get to much control back in the air. Actually attacking should be no problem for any of the five demo characters, We already saw Mario and it could be worst, if he has FLUDD charged up to gimp him. Link could effectively Up+B him. Villages has his randomly strong Up+A. Pikachu could follow with different kind of attacks to combo him again, which Mega Man properly don't wanna escape with Rush and SD himself at the ceiling. Or Pikachu could simply follow up with Thunder and smash him to the ground again. Characters like Mega Man himself, Sonic or Pacman are even worst, since they can simply follow and KO him with there own Up+B.

Even without following Mega Man, he gets in a helpless state high up in the air. Which gives his opponent more then enough time to think about the rightful punishment. So it looks worst then i properly is. But i still hope, Sakruai and Namco will patch it out.

 

[Thinkaman]

For reference and speculation, I'm going to list the Brawl startup times for aerial up-bs. This is from memory, so some might be wrong:

3
6
7
6 (no invincibility on aerial version)
4 (invincible on 4)
8?
slow
6?
8
11
invincible on 19?
14
11
5 (invincible on 3)
can't remember
n/a
slow
n/a
23?
8 (no invincibility on aerial version)
invincible frame 1, super armor frame 5
12?
20
20
23?
14
15?
10
21
9 (super armor on 4)
moves on... 30?
29
5 (invincible on 1)
18?
slow
slow
9 (invincible on 5, non-damaging trampoline hitbox on 2)
can't remember his move time
heavy armor on frame 4?

For reference, in Brawl, windows between hitboxes:
Mario up-b: 0
Mario dair: 1
Link bair: 9
Pikachu d-smash: 1
Pikachu fair: 1
Pikachu bair: 2
Zelda jab: 1
Zelda f-smash: 1
Zelda u-smash: 1

Basically, based on Brawl frame data (which WILL be incorrect), up-b combo breaking would only apply to Mario, DK, Marth, G&W, and maybe Sonic. Of these, it would be most useful on G&W and Marth, by far.

 

[Beatness]

I dunno, it seems to me that it will just lead to aerial punish, but I guess they could always patch it if the community complains enough.

 

[Cold Fusion]

How about we wait until the game is released before we start calling things broken?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Looking at this video, the Rush Cancel can also be a curse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksMduEXItBU
If Mega Man escapes a combo with his Up+B, opponents can simply use Rush to chase after him, hit him in his helpless state and Star KO him at the ceiling. This could mean, that Rush Cancel can be a horrible option, if your opponent knows how to use Rush against you.

This amazing lol.

Can't tell if that was a good read or just perfect situation.

 

[Senario]

You can also escape multiple hit moves like pikachus back air. Escaping combos like this should not be a thing. It is too easy. And you dont know who else could do it. Robin might be able to. Samus too. It could be very problematic if setting up a combo means you just get hit out of your aggression. losing double jump isnt so bad if you can find a move with damage that does this. As shown by up b out of shield for samus.

 

[Raijinken]

Gonna call it fair for now, if Sakurai removes it, we'll know it wasn't intended.

 

[Kalierdarke]

like I said earlier, I see this only being useful to escape low % ground combos.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Honestly, even if he does escape Mega Man doesn't have a whole lot of options from there. DAir hits in a straight line downward. FAir hits the diagonal in front + below, but takes a bit to reach the bottom. BAir hits in a horizontal line behind him. UAir hits in a straight line upward. So just get in that blind spot behind + below him and you're probably free to juggle as you like. Especially if he can't use any special attacks after Rush Coil, which would prevent him from hitting you with a diagonal downward Metal Blade.

Of course, problems start to occur if other characters without springs for Up Specials can do similar things out of any hitstun. Marth's Dolphin Slash in particular would be a huge issue.

 

[Kalierdarke]

first 10 seconds, megaman uses the rush cancel to escape mario's combo and ends up getting punished for a relatively low % KO compared to what we've been seeing.

Careful of having your volume too high

 

[Ghoti]

I want to see the Rush Cancel used offstage to have less knockback from an aerial.

To test this, I would like to see Mega Man Rush Cancel Mario's NAir, Uair, or BAir to see if it helps him escape a potentially fatal offstage aerial combo.

 

[BLTspirit]

I guess I'm okay with it since MM's projectile based moveset isn't my favorite. Although it could be a bug, it gives him a perk.

 

[Bladeviper]

Honestly, even if he does escape Mega Man doesn't have a whole lot of options from there. DAir hits in a straight line downward. FAir hits the diagonal in front + below, but takes a bit to reach the bottom. BAir hits in a horizontal line behind him. UAir hits in a straight line upward. So just get in that blind spot behind + below him and you're probably free to juggle as you like. Especially if he can't use any special attacks after Rush Coil, which would prevent him from hitting you with a diagonal downward Metal Blade.

Of course, problems start to occur if other characters without springs for Up Specials can do similar things out of any hitstun. Marth's Dolphin Slash in particular would be a huge issue.

if it works like it seems it should not be a problem with the other characters. from the looks of it, the game is just spawning rush when it shouldnt which is why it cancels the animation and the reason why it should not affect the others, expect maybe sonic, is because rush is coded as differently the other up b's and its whats causing megaman to recover not megaman himself

In the same stream there was a Mario v. Mario (later on, I believe). Mario A did a down throw and Mario B was able to do an up special immediately after, and I haven't heard anyone say he's broken. I think that hitstun is practically inexistent at a low % and the vast majority of PJs will be able to do the same one way or another.

i saw what you are talking about, the main difference being the hitstun ended on mario that time where as megaman just flat out cancels it for any move that has weak hitstun which could be a problem, it might not but it needs to be tested if they don't patch it out

 

[Mono.]

Why is this even a thing? Sonic could do something much similar in brawl and it made him super broken, right?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

To me this doesn't seem likely to be broken at all. It's much akin to being able to recover out of a knockback hit in other fighting games. If you use your recovery early and your opponent reads it, they just use an approaching special and restart the combo. If you recover late and the opponent reads it, they chase you down and catch you in another combo. If you choose not to recover at all and your opponent reads it, they chase you down, jab- or sweep-reset or throw (depending on the game) and start comboing you again.

 

[Sleeplost]

You see, the thing is, Megaman (despite having some OKAY normals and jabs) can't really do much when up close and personal with another player.
He's a zoning character, so if anyone where to get him in a combo or in a set of grabs, he could easily escape thanks to the help of the uhm... Glitch(?) that you see before you.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

Too soon to tell, currently it doesn't look like it'll be a deal but can't say for certain.