Roy vs Shield Grabbers.

[Nø Ca$h]

ok now. one of roys worst enemies. the one who makes roy saudy when trying to DED. i was shield grabbed by my friend the other day and i thought "woah, i should break his shield!"
i was thinking of ways to burst someones bubble and the 2 moves in roys arsenal that are adept at breaking shields are DED (3rd hit down) and the up smash. both because of the fire's multiple hits.we all know the lag of upsmash, so i need help with setups.
maybe SH a Uair over the foe and upsmash.what do u guys think would work?

 

[ArcNatural]

I would think Roy's shield breaker is good at breaking shields. But then again the name of the move might be a trick... Maybe it's a shield fixer!

Edit: MarkLoo is right! Use teh phire!

 

[MarkLoo]

I thought it was called flare blade. Which is quite visibly not a misnomer.

 

[handsockpuppet]

4th down hit of DED is good at shield poking. so is Dtilt. but most of all, try spacing so you won't get grabbed. the moment he shield, grab him (remember to JC grab if running). Only do the three neutral hits of the DED on a normal occasion. do not use upsmash or Uair.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

when i said sh the uair over the foe, i meant to land on the other side. once on the other side it might be safe to up smash b/c you cant be grabbed. the up smash has multiple hits so it can wear the shield down rather quick.
its not something to do all the time 4 various reasons,but its good to keep your game diverse. catching ur oponent off gaurd even once with something comparible worse to the other moves can work wonders.but DED (3rd hit dwn) prolly shouldnt be used b/c a grab may have better priority.

 

[Cactuar]

I use a lot of upsmash with Roy. It has a surprising amount of priority, and a knockback that is not very difficult to follow. I don't think I would aim to use it on shields much though. At any point in time where you would jump over your opponent and land the back end of the uair on their shield, it would be better to just turn around and crouch. Maybe dtilt pressure the back of their shield. If they jump, either tilt using the IASA frames of dtilt, or hold forward and shield, so that the IASA cancels the dtilt animation into shield.

His uair is also very useful on shields in a similar way to how Marth's uair is good on shields. Use it at very close range and make it hit as close as possible to when you land, so that you maximize shield stun, while getting yourself out of the way of the incoming shield grab.

The best thing to do vs shield grabbers is really just space your moves out of shield grab range. You have a sword. Take advantage.

 

[Sethlon]

You shouldn't be shield grabbed out of DED. Space it so that you're far enough away and its super safe.

On the note of using upsmash...Fountain of Dreams is upsmash city. Anytime they land or get knocked on the platforms, upsmash away. If it doesn't hit/stab through their shield, you still have time to uair/etc before they can get out of there. And upsmash combos on fast fallers are very happy.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

interesting, i didnt know u can interupt the dtilt frames with a shield. ill be sure to keep that in mind.

also, your right sethlon, i need to space DED more/better. i didnt realize that FoD can be used like that. ill prolly pick that more often.

 

[Sethlon]

You have to hold forward/back to be able to shield out of the dtilt IASA.

Also, I don't think its been mentioned in this thread yet; if they block the first one/two hits, just don't follow up with the next swings. They don't have much lag; alot of the time I throw out single swing DEDs to pressure people into shielding.

And really I wouldn't ever counterpick FoD...its fun for spamming upsmash but for space animals FD is usually better for the chain grab. Maybe FoD against captain falcon/sheik.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

if they shield the first hit or 2 of DED, its common sense to stop (but thanks anyway). also can FoD be my CP against gannons as well as shiek + cf? its easy to follow up on platforms vs heavies. not to mention the moving platforms to escape gannons chain grabs.

 

[Sethlon]

Ganon it would be nice against too. If you tech on them it still sets up pretty nicely to get daired/waveland -> regrabbed, but its better than nothing.

 

[ChivalRuse]

How quickly does reverse blazer start up? I ask because I'm wondering if Roy's up-b can be used similar to Fox and Falco's shine (to avoid getting shield grabbed, as the title of this thread states).

Does anyone have any knowledge on the usefulness of this technique?

 

[Cactuar]

That sounds like a terrible idea for the same reason you don't see many Marth players going around using upb after landing with an aerial on someones shield. The only time I really know of that someone playing Marth did do that was KDJ vs Chu, because KDJ knew Chu would go for the shieldgrab every time because, well, Chu is a bit of an idiot. (Still love him, good friend and all, but he knows he's an idiot too)

Even if it did come out fast enough to prevent you from getting grabbed, this kind of thing would more likely get you punished hard. It wouldn't work more than once or twice vs a smart opponent as well.

Either way, I don't think you have the frames for this to work.


I feel like Roy's upb is much more similar to Samus' upb as far as hitstun and knockback goes. Unless you had a platform available to land on, the opponent might be able to reset out of the hitstun while in air and punish the **** out of you, depending on falling speed of that opponent. Sethlon correct me if I'm wrong. My familiarity with Roy's moves is obviously not as good as it is with other characters lol.



Sethlon: Btw, did you win that one friendly match on FD at that Philly brawl tournament? I was paying attention to what you used during your cg's and forgot how the match went lol. Your Roy definitely seemed to have way more difficulty dealing with spacies on platforms, as well as landing a killing blow consistently when platforms are available, but that could have just been because the next stage was FoD. I haven't really gotten a chance to play any good Foxes other than Jman with my Roy, but I've been having the same problem given that I can't get a good popup on them that puts them hovering slightly above a platform. Any tips?

 

[GameStation aka C4?!]

roy loves boys. he also enjoys rollerskating.

 

[handsockpuppet]

That sounds like a terrible idea for the same reason you don't see many Marth players going around using upb after landing with an aerial on someones shield. The only time I really know of that someone playing Marth did do that was KDJ vs Chu, because KDJ knew Chu would go for the shieldgrab every time because, well, Chu is a bit of an idiot. (Still love him, good friend and all, but he knows he's an idiot too)

Even if it did come out fast enough to prevent you from getting grabbed, this kind of thing would more likely get you punished hard. It wouldn't work more than once or twice vs a smart opponent as well.

Either way, I don't think you have the frames for this to work.


I feel like Roy's upb is much more similar to Samus' upb as far as hitstun and knockback goes. Unless you had a platform available to land on, the opponent might be able to reset out of the hitstun while in air and punish the **** out of you, depending on falling speed of that opponent. Sethlon correct me if I'm wrong. My familiarity with Roy's moves is obviously not as good as it is with other characters lol.



Sethlon: Btw, did you win that one friendly match on FD at that Philly brawl tournament? I was paying attention to what you used during your cg's and forgot how the match went lol. Your Roy definitely seemed to have way more difficulty dealing with spacies on platforms, as well as landing a killing blow consistently when platforms are available, but that could have just been because the next stage was FoD. I haven't really gotten a chance to play any good Foxes other than Jman with my Roy, but I've been having the same problem given that I can't get a good popup on them that puts them hovering slightly above a platform. Any tips?

Indeed, the blazer is not a good idea, besides maybe reverse blazer against jiggs. Jump is really Roy's fastest move. if you get the chance in a chaingrab if the opponent messes up, just wavedash backwards. And Roy's up-B is 10x worse than samus's. at least samus's is fast and keeps them caught up for a while with multiple hits (more pressure for shielders). But yes, they both are not reliable on the stage at all.

roy loves boys. he also enjoys rollerskating.

Roy does not love boys. and whether he likes rollerskating or not is yet to be determined. if you wish to post in the Roy boards again, please visit and read http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235323

 

[Nø Ca$h]

it doesnt matter if roy likes boys or not (not saying he does). "mr." tiara is top tier. and roy only rollerskates when you foxtrot. so i would also advise u to go to handsockpuppets noob begone guide.

btw cactuar, whens the next philly biweekly/smashfest/tourney or anything of the like that septa can take me to. you should know dat stuff.

 

[Cactuar]

No idea. I can usually play with people at least once a week, and getting to my place is just getting off at 40th and Market and walking to 42nd.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

yo cactuar, i just found one. pakman is hosting it. i dont think its in philly but u can take septa there. and yeah i cant play people that often either. maybe we can play sometime.

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. I know where Pakman lives. I'm gonna be out of town that weekend unfortunately, but you should definitely get in contact with him.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

yeah ill try to talk to pakman or something. but do you have an aim? rather talk there instead of stray far off topic.

 

[ChivalRuse]

That sounds like a terrible idea for the same reason you don't see many Marth players going around using upb after landing with an aerial on someones shield. The only time I really know of that someone playing Marth did do that was KDJ vs Chu, because KDJ knew Chu would go for the shieldgrab every time because, well, Chu is a bit of an idiot. (Still love him, good friend and all, but he knows he's an idiot too)

Even if it did come out fast enough to prevent you from getting grabbed, this kind of thing would more likely get you punished hard. It wouldn't work more than once or twice vs a smart opponent as well.

Either way, I don't think you have the frames for this to work.


I feel like Roy's upb is much more similar to Samus' upb as far as hitstun and knockback goes. Unless you had a platform available to land on, the opponent might be able to reset out of the hitstun while in air and punish the **** out of you, depending on falling speed of that opponent. Sethlon correct me if I'm wrong. My familiarity with Roy's moves is obviously not as good as it is with other characters lol.



Sethlon: Btw, did you win that one friendly match on FD at that Philly brawl tournament? I was paying attention to what you used during your cg's and forgot how the match went lol. Your Roy definitely seemed to have way more difficulty dealing with spacies on platforms, as well as landing a killing blow consistently when platforms are available, but that could have just been because the next stage was FoD. I haven't really gotten a chance to play any good Foxes other than Jman with my Roy, but I've been having the same problem given that I can't get a good popup on them that puts them hovering slightly above a platform. Any tips?

Ah I see. Thanks for the warning. I was about to go and test out my idea

Well, after all, the only aerials that are likely to get shield grabbed are Roy's two legitimate approaching aerials (fair and nair). Fair can be spaced on a shield, so that should be relatively easy to correct. And neutral, well, I'm thinking that the two hits on the nair might buy enough time to buffer a roll/spotdodge.

 

[Sethlon]

Sethlon correct me if I'm wrong. My familiarity with Roy's moves is obviously not as good as it is with other characters lol.

Yeah, UpB blows as an offensive move. Way too slow, too little stun, too easy to not get them with the sweetspot...

You beat me on FD, i think low-mid percent on your last stock. And I pretty much never lose to foxes on FD, so I just went "Well **** I'm not gonna beat him" and picked FoD for the upsmash shenanigans lol

On killing fox...Dthrow -> fsmash can actually work at high percent if they don't DI it correctly. Tech chase -> fsmash works too. Most of the time I just try to get them off the edge to counter/fsmash the firefox. Uair/dair can sometimes combo into fsmash, if you work 'em right. If they're getting too nair shine happy, wavedash back to fsmash can work.

Third hit forward on DED can do the trick. Most of the time you have to go up on the second swing to get it to connect at kill percents though, so if they DI towards you they'll end up going over your back.

 

[Cactuar]

Haha. I remember you upsmashing a lot of FoD, and how happy it made me at the time because I do very similar things on that stage. FoD is one of my favorite stages. Not because I'm good on it, but because its so shiny and there are a lot of silly strats that really only work there.

I was just asking if I won or lost that because someone posted on Gamefaqs about watching us play, and I couldn't remember the outcome of that match at all, just that you were doing some really nice CGs and that it was decently close last stock. I tend to only remember interesting things that happen during matches and not the outcomes. ^.^


@Lunar: My aim is WSFLCactuar. I work 9-5, but I'm usually on MobileIM. I'm actually going to Pakman's place tonight after work lol.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

thanks, spacing against shield grabbers does work wonders. i was just playing a crazy marth who shield grabs. so my spacing was useless...
but then instead of shffling(thats how i was shield grabbed usually) , i empty sh backwards and wave landed towards his marth and grabbed him. he was saudy as ****. i was like "DID I DO THAT!?" and i did.^^.

 

[Jihnsius]

Empty short hop to forward smash works wonders.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Empty short hop to forward smash works wonders.

That's my bread and butter mindgame with Roy. Like, I don't do that with any character BUT Roy

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Why the hell would you ever CP Sheik on FoD? Do you like getting ***** that much? Yay to no CG on certain parts, boo to her outmanuevering you in every way, shape, and form.