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Roy Tips and Tricks

Do you think Roy is "Top Tier"

  • Absolutely

    Votes: 51 56.7%
  • Heck no!

    Votes: 39 43.3%

  • Total voters
    90

Hyruled

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Ok so I know this should probably be put under a guide or anything but start a new thread, however, after experimenting with Roy for quite a while, I've noticed some interesting techs, subtle details, and other tips that may be of use to those who'd like to pick up the Melee veteran.


  • Neutral B kills at zero when fully charged.
Under the correct conditions and on most characters, a fully charged neutral B can and will kill at ANY percent. (At least near the edge) This one is easy to see and most of you might know this, but in general, this is pretty impressive. I'd like to see how this impacts doubles matches in the future.


  • His pivot grab is amazing
Simply put, I think Roy has the best pivot grab in the game. I first noticed this when I accidentally pivot grabbed a zero suit from about an eighth of final destination away. I thought it was a simple windbox error or something of the sort, but when I pulled it off again, Roy was able to grab from a large distance. The furthest distance I've gotten was about 1/5th to 1/4th of final destination. This is extremely impressive, and arguably the best pivot grab we have in smash 4.


  • Down throw is godly
You may be thinking, "No duh, Smash 4 gave almost every character a great down throw. What makes Roy so special?" Good question! In fact, Roy's down throw is an awesome combo starter that bounces a character to about above Roy's head. At low percents, following up with a jab, up tilt, up smash, or forward tilt are all viable options. However, this grab get's better at about 30% (20-25% for fast fallers). Up tilts can be used in succession, and if your opponent has trash DI, you can even follow up with up airs and even and up special if you really want to go deep. This works so well due to up air and tilt's ability to juggle fairly easily. Finally, note that down throw can be combined with a pivot grab to forward air opponents offstage, and with characters like DIddy or Ness, gimp their recoveries. Just remember not to go too deep and end up in the blast zone.


  • Roy doesn't have trouble killing
Once again, no duh! Of course Roy would be able to kill, I already mentioned how strong neutral B was. However, most people don't know the sheer amount of kill options Roy has. Firstly, his smashes. I'd like to say that any move I mention will kill at 120%, but most will kill much sooner. All of Roy's smashes kill. However, forward and up smash can kill reliably at around 90% in the sweet spot near the base. Not too bad. Next is tilts. Both up and forward kill, however, up isn't always super reliable. That being said, if you sweet spot it, up tilt will do its job and take the stock. On to aerials. Forward air will just barely kill at 120%. Back air, however, has great kill power on the sweet spot going as far as 110% near the edge. Time for specials. Forward special may kill, but due to knockback that doesn't kill but knocks opponents very far away at high percents, it is super unreliable and I recommend you avoid it at all costs. Up special kills super early at sweet spot, killing at 105% in some cases. Counter will kill if counter wants to, that's just how counter goes, and neutral special kills at 0 so yeah. And that's about it!



Overall, Roy is an amazing character with great potential all around. Fast, powerful, and just plain cool, I recommend you check him out if you haven't already. If you liked this "guide" tell me down below. I'm pretty new to Smashboards, but I hope this could help out people new to Roy regardless.
 
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123outerme

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I agree that Roy is looking pretty good right now, but I have a few points I want to make:


*Roy is a new character. People don't really know how to beat Roy. On the contrary, some Roy main may discover an amazing new AT that makes Roy top tier. We don't know yet. It would be hard to place him in a tier accurately so early.

*Roy is easily outspaced by characters like Marth (and to a lesser extent, Lucina), DK (see: range on Ftilt), Shulk, etc. A lot of those characters have tournament potential (especially DK in customs, but also in vanilla Sm4sh somewhat. See: Average Joe)

That said, I agree with all of your conclusions, especially that Roy is amazing. :) As for my opinion, I don't believe he's top tier, but he's at least C-tier.
 
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Hyruled

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I agree that Roy is looking pretty good right now, but I have a few points I want to make:


*Roy is a new character. People don't really know how to beat Roy. On the contrary, some Roy main may discover an amazing new AT that makes Roy top tier. We don't know yet. It would be hard to place him in a tier accurately so early.

*Roy is easily outspaced by characters like Marth (and to a lesser extent, Lucina), DK (see: range on Ftilt), Shulk, etc. A lot of those characters have tournament potential (especially DK in customs, but also in vanilla Sm4sh somewhat. See: Average Joe)

That said, I agree with all of your conclusions, especially that Roy is amazing. :) As for my opinion, I don't believe he's top tier, but he's at least C-tier.
Sounds kinda like my original thoughts on him. That being said, his spacing is definitely balanced out by his speed and the fire effects on many of his moves. I didn't really like Roy at first due to what you said exactly, but I kept experimenting, and certain moves like up air and f-tilt have surprisingly large hitboxes. In any case, I understand how characters like Marth, Lucina, Shulk, DK, and even Toon Link can outspace and ultimately win the matchup. :grin:
 

123outerme

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Sounds kinda like my original thoughts on him. That being said, his spacing is definitely balanced out by his speed and the fire effects on many of his moves. I didn't really like Roy at first due to what you said exactly, but I kept experimenting, and certain moves like up air and f-tilt have surprisingly large hitboxes. In any case, I understand how characters like Marth, Lucina, Shulk, DK, and even Toon Link can outspace and ultimately win the matchup. :grin:
You're right, I hadn't considered his speed as affecting his matchups against zoning characters. I didn't think I would like Roy as much as I do, but I got him anyway because he was in Melee, yet I never have played it (which I intend to change soon :p ). He's surprisingly nimble for his power and he'll definitely be a force to reckon with.
 

Hyruled

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You're right, I hadn't considered his speed as affecting his matchups against zoning characters. I didn't think I would like Roy as much as I do, but I got him anyway because he was in Melee, yet I never have played it (which I intend to change soon :p ). He's surprisingly nimble for his power and he'll definitely be a force to reckon with.
This was my exact epiphany. I thought all projectile characters would destroy Roy just like Lucina and Marth save for certain situations. However, for some odd reason, Roy is able to rush down every slow-mid speed projectile character with relative speed. This makes Link and Samus essentially even against him. Only Toon Link can truly outmatch him with projectiles and Sheik with her needles to an extent as well. It's interesting to see how he's developing as a pseudo-Captain Falcon character. :laugh:
 

Chiroz

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Ok so I know this should probably be put under a guide or anything but start a new thread, however, after experimenting with Roy for quite a while, I've noticed some interesting techs, subtle details, and other tips that may be of use to those who'd like to pick up the Melee veteran.


  • Neutral B kills at zero when fully charged.
Under the correct conditions and on most characters, a fully charged neutral B can and will kill at ANY percent. (At least near the edge) This one is easy to see and most of you might know this, but in general, this is pretty impressive. I'd like to see how this impacts doubles matches in the future.


  • His pivot grab is amazing
Simply put, I think Roy has the best pivot grab in the game. I first noticed this when I accidentally pivot grabbed a zero suit from about an eighth of final destination away. I thought it was a simple windbox error or something of the sort, but when I pulled it off again, Roy was able to grab from a large distance. The furthest distance I've gotten was about 1/5th to 1/4th of final destination. This is extremely impressive, and arguably the best pivot grab we have in smash 4.


  • Down throw is godly
You may be thinking, "No duh, Smash 4 gave almost every character a great down throw. What makes Roy so special?" Good question! In fact, Roy's down throw is an awesome combo starter that bounces a character to about above Roy's head. At low percents, following up with a jab, up tilt, up smash, or forward tilt are all viable options. However, this grab get's better at about 30% (20-25% for fast fallers). Up tilts can be used in succession, and if your opponent has trash DI, you can even follow up with up airs and even and up special if you really want to go deep. This works so well due to up air and tilt's ability to juggle fairly easily. Finally, note that down throw can be combined with a pivot grab to forward air opponents offstage, and with characters like DIddy or Ness, gimp their recoveries. Just remember not to go too deep and end up in the blast zone.


  • Roy doesn't have trouble killing
Once again, no duh! Of course Roy would be able to kill, I already mentioned how strong neutral B was. However, most people don't know the sheer amount of kill options Roy has. Firstly, his smashes. I'd like to say that any move I mention will kill at 120%, but most will kill much sooner. All of Roy's smashes kill. However, forward and up smash can kill reliably at around 90% in the sweet spot near the base. Not too bad. Next is tilts. Both up and forward kill, however, up isn't always super reliable. That being said, if you sweet spot it, up tilt will do its job and take the stock. On to aerials. Forward air will just barely kill at 120%. Back air, however, has great kill power on the sweet spot going as far as 110% near the edge. Time for specials. Forward special may kill, but due to knockback that doesn't kill but knocks opponents very far away at high percents, it is super unreliable and I recommend you avoid it at all costs. Up special kills super early at sweet spot, killing at 105% in some cases. Counter will kill if counter wants to, that's just how counter goes, and neutral special kills at 0 so yeah. And that's about it!



Overall, Roy is an amazing character with great potential all around. Fast, powerful, and just plain cool, I recommend you check him out if you haven't already. If you liked this "guide" tell me down below. I'm pretty new to Smashboards, but I hope this could help out people new to Roy regardless.


While I agree with a lot of what is said here I have to point some stuff out.


Neutral B takes 4-5 seconds to charge. It takes about the same time as 3 Falcon Punches in a row take to land (or say break from a grab about 3-4 times). This is a gimmick that will only be doable when an opponent has had his shield broken. In doubles specifically you will never see this land as there's 2 chars who can punish you out of a melee ranged move. However I believe shield pressure will be a strong tool on Roy as everyone will be terribly afraid of getting their shield broken since it means losing a stock. For Roy, everyone has Jigglypuff's shield.


Roy's grab range is amazing but I don't think it's even in the top 5, let alone the best grab range of the game (and that's without counting Tethers, which also just got a huge buff in range and speed). I might be wrong though, either way his grab is truly amazing but as you said the best part about his grab is the fact that he has a godly throw game.
 
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Hyruled

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While I agree with a lot of what is said here I have to point some stuff out.


Neutral B takes 4-5 seconds to charge. It takes about the same time as 3 Falcon Punches in a row take to land (or say break from a grab about 3-4 times). This is a gimmick that will only be doable when an opponent has had his shield broken. In doubles specifically you will never see this land as there's 2 chars who can punish you out of a melee ranged move. However I believe shield pressure will be a strong tool on Roy as everyone will be terribly afraid of getting their shield broken since it means losing a stock. For Roy, everyone has Jigglypuff's shield.


Roy's grab range is amazing but I don't think it's even in the top 5, let alone the best grab range of the game (and that's without counting Tethers, which also just got a huge buff in range and speed). I might be wrong though, either way his grab is truly amazing but as you said the best part about his grab is the fact that he has a godly throw game.
I agree wholeheartedly on both subjects, however, I never assumed his neutral B was broken or anything of the sort. I imagine a double battle where one teammate grabs and waits for Roy to charge or something to occur to break a shield. These situations would only truly be viable when one teammate on the opposing team was dead and for the ultimate disrespect. I've only ever hit a fully charged neutral B once on a human player (a very good one I might add), and it was from the sheer fact that his getup game is trash. (I mean he literally always get's straight up, no roll, no jump) As for his grab, I don't believe his vanilla grab is the best in the game. I was arguing that his pivot grab was the best. It may be a stretch, but seriously! It can grab from one fourth of final destination. But yeah, the grab probably isn't the BEST THING EVER and the neutral B may not be super overpowered, but I thought both needed mentioning. Not even the Little Mac K.O. punch kills at 0%. :chuckle:
 

Chiroz

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I agree wholeheartedly on both subjects, however, I never assumed his neutral B was broken or anything of the sort. I imagine a double battle where one teammate grabs and waits for Roy to charge or something to occur to break a shield. These situations would only truly be viable when one teammate on the opposing team was dead and for the ultimate disrespect. I've only ever hit a fully charged neutral B once on a human player (a very good one I might add), and it was from the sheer fact that his getup game is trash. (I mean he literally always get's straight up, no roll, no jump) As for his grab, I don't believe his vanilla grab is the best in the game. I was arguing that his pivot grab was the best. It may be a stretch, but seriously! It can grab from one fourth of final destination. But yeah, the grab probably isn't the BEST THING EVER and the neutral B may not be super overpowered, but I thought both needed mentioning. Not even the Little Mac K.O. punch kills at 0%. :chuckle:

Yea I figured you were talking about your teammate grabbing an opponent but honestly 4.5 seconds is enough to break from a grab numerous times unless you're like at 200%. I guess there are some combos that might allow Roy to charge this, like Fox's jab lock or Ryu's Up-Tilt stuff, or just a regular combo that ends in a grab or something similar. I haven't yet landed a fully charged Neutral B but I once landed a 33% one that killed at like 20% damage xD.

As for pivot grab I haven't actually tested his pivot grab range, I know everyone gets a buff when pivot grabbing but didn't realize his was so long.
 

Liyrex

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Best approach option seems to be fastfalling nair, as it creates a ton of lasting hitboxes and then going into a d tilt, forward throw also has a ton of options, with him i feel like its all about grabbing and reading getup's. Also his jab is one of the best in the game and can be spammed to throw off opponents.
 

Scarlet Knight

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I'd say He's more High Tier than Top tier IMO
He has top tier potential yes
But since he is new, we don't exactly have a matchup rating for him
for example Roy vs. Sheik
 

MagiusNecros

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As for pivot grab I haven't actually tested his pivot grab range, I know everyone gets a buff when pivot grabbing but didn't realize his was so long.
Bowser's pivot grab is like 3 times bigger then Roy's.

And Mewtwo's and Ganondorf's pivot grab is well...you may as well SD right now. You ain't grabbing crap.

------------------------

Do we have HAAAAVE to start with Sheik? The safest mofo in the entire roster that can give Fair's out like candy?
 

Scarlet Knight

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Bowser's pivot grab is like 3 times bigger then Roy's.

And Mewtwo's and Ganondorf's pivot grab is well...you may as well SD right now. You ain't grabbing crap.

------------------------

Do we have HAAAAVE to start with Sheik? The safest mofo in the entire roster that can give Fair's out like candy?
xD sheik was the first that came to mind
 

Seb9k+

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Yeah neutral B fully charged basically never lands, but partially charged ain't bad either. I checked that charging it 1,2s is about as strong as a sweetspotted fsmash (noncharged), so if you manage to charge it 2 seconds and land it, that's usually a kill if the opponent has at least 50% damage.
 

Hyruled

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Yeah neutral B fully charged basically never lands, but partially charged ain't bad either. I checked that charging it 1,2s is about as strong as a sweetspotted fsmash (noncharged), so if you manage to charge it 2 seconds and land it, that's usually a kill if the opponent has at least 50% damage.
Exactly!
 

Appdude

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That side smash.....I use Zard a lot, and Im dying at 100%......zard is normally killed at 120%....
 

mario123007

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Zard is a low tier character, but no, Roy is not OP.
 

A_Kae

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If you think Roy is OP, I can't even imagine what Sheik must be to you. Or Brawl MK.

So he's got a strong F-Smash. He's also got a lot of flaws.
 
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mario123007

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What would be the best reason that roy is not OP?
I do agreed that his F smash and up smash are really annoying, but compare to other characters. Roy is far from OP.
 

Lady Kuki

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He's not OP at all; he's far from it. He may have the ability to kill early, but he lacks safe approaches, a good recovery, and he's combo food, lol. He's pretty easy to counter if you play defensively.

It's possible though that Charizard has a bad match up with him. You see, Charizard's big and hefty; he gets hit very easily, so you have to play accordingly. The only way you can get better at fighting Roy is by fighting more Roys. Seriously, he is not all that bad. :T
 
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A_Phoenix_Down

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Not to mention for a sword user, his reach is god awful, on top of weaker hits at the top of the blade which both completely contradict the spacing game of a normal sword user. So no, Roy's not OP.

It's a shame... Threads like these are gonna be the cause of Roy's kill power to be nerfed to the ground.
 
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ArikadoSD

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Why aren't threads like these deleted?
 

Lady Kuki

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Not to mention for a sword user, his reach is god awful, on top of weaker hits at the top of the blade which both completely contradict the spacing game of a normal sword user. So no, Roy's not OP.

It's a shame... Threads like these are gonna be the cause of Roy's kill power to be nerfed to the ground.
I know right? I'm legit scared of him being nerfed. People these days need to learn how to adapt instead of complaining about how overpowered a character is. If people just knew their match ups more, this wouldn't be a problem. I hope that if he does get nerfed like crazy, there will be other characters available for DLC who share a similar playstyle. He's too fun for me to drop.
 
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ArikadoSD

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True. Though I hated Diddy, I'm really sad that he got nerfed hard. Same with Greninja, Mario, and others...
Mario literally never got touched iirc.

edit: actually his utilt does 1% less, huge deal
 
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Moydow

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Marth's f-smash kills even earlier than Roy's, comes out earlier, can be acted out of earlier, and jab 1 practically confirms a kill with it. Where's my "Marth OP" thread? (Just tested: on 3DS FD, with Charizard in his default starting position, Marth gets the black lightning 14% earlier than Roy.)

Roy's got a lot of unsafe moves, and has a lot of trouble approaching. No point in having tons of kill power if you can't actually hit your opponent with it very often. If he could toss out f-smash whenever he liked without having to worry about punishment, then maybe he'd be problematic.
 
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teluoborg

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Roy's got a lot of unsafe moves, and has a lot of trouble approaching. No point in having tons of kill power if you can't actually hit your opponent with it very often. If he could toss out f-smash whenever he liked without having to worry about punishment, then maybe he'd be problematic.
Yes, if only he could have a move with strong killing power and no lag... *wink wink*
 

Moydow

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Yes, if only he could have a move with strong killing power and no lag... *wink wink*
Flare Blade needs about a second and a half of charging before it can kill as early as f-smash does. I was referring to a hypothetical move that would start up as quickly as f-smash, with minimal ending lag, and start killing at about 60-70% without needing to be charged. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any such move.
 

JohnnyB

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This is just like how people used to complain about Lucario + rage. Roy was thoughtfully designed with flaws to make him a balanced character.

Little Mac kills pretty early too, hell he even has a ohko move that goes through shields.
 

Flukey

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Even if i agree, that Roy is not OP
at the same time, i can smell those nerf patches for his ability to kill early and able to combo easily
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Honestly, if Roy got nerfed, he'd basically plummet back to Melee-status awful character. Him having good killing might be one of the few notable strengths he has, and he's quite straightforward in execution: you have to be on your opponent's face and then wall them some now and then if need be.

If he lost his current kill power, Roy would be already done for competitive viability earlier than anyone else in the game, and basically be already a shell of what Sakurai intended him to be in Sm4sh.
 

ArikadoSD

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On one hand I can definitely see Roy being nerfed due to all the un-deserved complaining from a lot of players... but on the other, Nintendo would be nerfing a character people PAYED for, and that's just ********.

Then again Nintendo has been ******** for a long time now.
 

Phoenon

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On one hand I can definitely see Roy being nerfed due to all the un-deserved complaining from a lot of players... but on the other, Nintendo would be nerfing a character people PAYED for, and that's just ********.

Then again Nintendo has been ******** for a long time now.
Well they DID nerf Mewtwo last patch so ayy, anything's game I suppose.
 
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