Roy on the tier list

[Nitro_Hamster]

Where would you guys place roy on the tier list?

 

[foxygrandpa]

I would say he is about high mid tier. He combos pretty hard and can kill at pretty early percents. He's got amazing tech chases and powerful reading options. But he gets combod easily, lightweight. and has a pretty terrible recovery.

 

[Deleted member]

i think roy is like marth in that he's a mediocre and fair character in a game with amazing and unfair characters. unfortunately, marth also has better air control at pretty much no opportunity cost. i put roy in low tier ish.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Just got back from winning a tournament with him, so I may be a little bias but I personally think hes amazing. Similar to the power of older versions of Ike (?) Haven't kept up with previous versions much.

He can either kill or put you into edgeguard situations with neutral-B at really early percents. He can go off-stage and gimp with neutral- B and still recover from pretty far off/low. Dair (even without the spike), fair and dtilt all have a ton of hitstun and can lead into fsmash, nair, neutral-B etc.

Maybe not top tier, but he could even be better then Marth I think. Unlike Marth he doesn't need to worry as much about spacing, and he has a lot of the same strengths but with easy on-stage kill options with Bair and Neutral-B.

 

[NameChange]

Inb4 2.1 Ike

 

[Xinc]

He's somewhere near the middle. He's got a good offensive game, but can't exactly finish as well, though it's better than in Melee. He's a little bit stronger than Marth, but slower, and spacing is a bit more difficult. He's also got a horrible recovery, which gives him the illusion of being Fox's Falco to Marth. He is especially prone to those Ice Climbers chainies and projectiles, though I think his nair can beat Mewtwo's Nair, which is Mewtwo's best move arguably. He is a good character for predictions though, especially hard reading people to roll into a sweet spotted forward smash.

 

[theONEjanitor]

low. maybe the worst character. He's like the same as melee. bad recovery, easily comboed. since the difference between best and worst isn't that huge a gap anymore it's still manageable, but he's still got all the same weaknesses. he's very strong and can deal a lot of damage, but he has no reliable set ups and no safe approach (just like before). if your opponent makes a mistake, you're going ham though. the new bair and f-tilt makes him a lot more dangerous than before, but compared to the other characters he's still subpar.

 

[DMG]

If he had better approaching, and fixed the CC issues he had, he would be amazing. Too amazing

 

[A Revelation]

If he had better approaching, and fixed the CC issues he had, he would be amazing. Too amazing

Spaced Nair > CC

 

[Vigilante]

I think that in terms of design, he's probably one of the most fair and legitimately fun characters around. I wouldn't say he's either overpowered or helpless by any stretch of the imagination, and I do believe minor tweaks here and there might be necessary, but I think poeple appreciate his design and whatever we do, I don't think he'll need anything more than incremental changes.

Of course, it's too early in the dev cycle to say anything about balance, but I think Roy's a good example of good balance choices. It would have been easy to just make him like Marth, but cloning him more wouldn't be fun, wouldn't it?

 

[Foxy K]

@ Vigilante You guys do good work.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

i think roy is like marth in that he's a mediocre and fair character in a game with amazing and unfair characters. unfortunately, marth also has better air control at pretty much no opportunity cost. i put roy in low tier ish.

Basically my thoughts as well.

 

[Juushichi]

Middle of mid tier or low-mid, because of some of those things mentioned.

I'm not sure how much he likes that I think most of the cast is lighter on the whole, which is pretty great for him juggling... but maybe not so great for enders.

 

[G13_Flux]

Honestly i feel like roy combos and transitions into kills far more efficiently than about 75 percent of the cast. He has very reliable and pretty low percent killers. I think the fact that hes slower and has less overall range than marth gives him the illusion of having a bad spacing game and bad neutral game, but in reality, hes actually still pretty fast, has a great DD, great grab range, and he still has a lot of range that he can space very efficiently with, even hitting with the middle of the blade with some skill. His recovery is definitely his worst aspect, but its hard to edge guard against, and as long as your opponent doesnt have enough time to ledge guard, then its extremely safe getting back and defending against those onstage, much better than marths. Low tier is out of the question for me, i think roy will easily take up the top of the mid tier. He just has too many kill options and combo options to be low tier. granted, he does suffer from CC issues, but thats why hes not in the top tier.

 

[Spiffykins]

I don't think he's really as susceptible to CC as everyone says. You still push the opponent back a bit if they CC, so depending on your spacing and which character you're up against, it might be hard for them to punish. Plus, certain moves easily beat CC, especially the oh-so spammable d tilt. Back air is also strong enough to beat CC past very low percent, so if you're too close for nair/fair to be safe if it gets CC'd, then you have that option.

Anyway, mid tier or higher sounds about right to me.

Edit: Try comparing this to an ostensibly top tier character like Sheik who literally can't do anything against CC at 0% except maybe get you caught in a rapid jab.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Roy is kind of in this funny spot where he has better finishes than Marth but can't flow into a finish quite as well, if you get what I meant by that. He also lacks the decisive dair that makes Marth Swordco, but that's more fore the topic of comparing the two rather than judging Roy's tier list placement. Roy is good, but not quite flowchart. He can follow up well, juggle well and space well with his FTilt, DTilt and large disjoint in general and Double-Edge Dance is an actually useful Side-B. He also has actual finishing moves that don't require pinpoint spacing and certain% throws, but his ideal spacing is awkward because it cuts down on half his effective reach and brings him into grab range for some people. That and his recovery are the balancing factors here. Mid, easily, and solid mid at that.

 

[G13_Flux]

i actually think roy flows into kills better than marth on a whole. all of his, fair, uair, dair, dtilt antics chain together so well with a lot of their extremely small KB scaling properties. those also segway directly in both fsmash and fair. I just think roy isnt as good in neutral or recovering as marth. thatd be my biggest difference i notice.

 

[Ethereal_Sin]

Wouldn't say bottom, but definitely a low-mid character. Power is great but he's easy to juggle and gimp.

 

[Koga_]

Wouldn't say bottom, but definitely a low-mid character. Power is great but he's easy to juggle and gimp.

Mid tier easy. Guy is a powerhouse with a massive blade sweetspot. I'm pointing at u ethereal sin.

 

[Koga_]

Just got back from winning a tournament with him, so I may be a little bias but I personally think hes amazing. Similar to the power of older versions of Ike (?) Haven't kept up with previous versions much.

He can either kill or put you into edgeguard situations with neutral-B at really early percents. He can go off-stage and gimp with neutral- B and still recover from pretty far off/low. Dair (even without the spike), fair and dtilt all have a ton of hitstun and can lead into fsmash, nair, neutral-B etc.

Maybe not top tier, but he could even be better then Marth I think. Unlike Marth he doesn't need to worry as much about spacing, and he has a lot of the same strengths but with easy on-stage kill options with Bair and Neutral-B.

This. Played as Roy today and realized how all u have to do is just be close. U sweetspot everytime. Guy takes no technique like Marth. Ppl thinkin he's not good must get gimped a ton

 

[Kally Wally]

So, I've been playing Roy since he was released, and was a Lucas main since 2.5, but haven't played Lucas much at all recently. I switch to him for two matches, and my opponent tells me to stop playing Roy.

Yeah, sounds about right.

 

[Ethereal_Sin]

This. Played as Roy today and realized how all u have to do is just be close. U sweetspot everytime. Guy takes no technique like Marth. Ppl thinkin he's not good must get gimped a ton

With this logic I assume you think that Ike is god tier since he's the definition of a bladed powerhouse. Roy can deal major damage in close combat (like many others) but he's got some flaws that make him a high risk high reward kinda guy. Getting in close and sweetspotting is very easy to say/do when it comes to playing cpu's.

 

[Koga_]

With this logic I assume you think that Ike is god tier since he's the definition of a bladed powerhouse. Roy can deal major damage in close combat (like many others) but he's got some flaws that make him a high risk high reward kinda guy. Getting in close and sweetspotting is very easy to say/do when it comes to playing cpu's.

his attacks arent nearly as slow as ike (and for the record ike is decent on PM). its advantageous to have a forward smash with a middle giant sweetspot. think of all the times u have hit with a forward smash......im willing to say a majority of forward smashes arent barely landed by hitting with the "tip". A majority are landed with the meaty area (the middle). Your boy roy has a forgiving sweetspot. Hell, it's basically a "anything but the tip" sweetspot

 

[Ethereal_Sin]

his attacks arent nearly as slow as ike (and for the record ike is decent on PM). its advantageous to have a forward smash with a middle giant sweetspot. think of all the times u have hit with a forward smash......im willing to say a majority of forward smashes arent barely landed by hitting with the "tip". A majority are landed with the meaty area (the middle). Your boy roy has a forgiving sweetspot. Hell, it's basically a "anything but the tip" sweetspot

Despite that, there's a reason why you don't see as many high level Roy players in tourneys like you do Marth players. This is how it was for Melee too, where Roy mains were scarce and if someone did use him it was for the lolz.

 

[Koga_]

Despite that, there's a reason why you don't see as many high level Roy players in tourneys like you do Marth players. This is how it was for Melee too, where Roy mains were scarce and if someone did use him it was for the lolz.

Heard he's way better in PM though

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Despite that, there's a reason why you don't see as many high level Roy players in tourneys like you do Marth players.

Yeah, that reason is that Roy's been released for a month.

And Sethlon placed 5th at Apex with him anyway.

I'm not a Roy fan, but I like faulty logic even less.

 

[Ethereal_Sin]

Yeah, that reason is that Roy's been released for a month.

And Sethlon placed 5th at Apex with him anyway.

I'm not a Roy fan, but I like faulty logic even less.

Of course that was obviously taking ssbm into consideration.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Right, in Melee not many people rock the Roy.

But that's because half his moves didn't set you on fire before. That was clearly the only changes he needed.

 

[Ethereal_Sin]

Very true.

 

[Shokio]

I think that in terms of design, he's probably one of the most fair and legitimately fun characters around. I wouldn't say he's either overpowered or helpless by any stretch of the imagination, and I do believe minor tweaks here and there might be necessary, but I think poeple appreciate his design and whatever we do, I don't think he'll need anything more than incremental changes.

Of course, it's too early in the dev cycle to say anything about balance, but I think Roy's a good example of good balance choices. It would have been easy to just make him like Marth, but cloning him more wouldn't be fun, wouldn't it?

I completely understand that weaknesses aren't a bad thing (every character NEEDS them in order for balance) and that it's part of what makes a character, but you guys should seriously consider giving him some more horizontal recovery with the Blazer. IMO, his vertical recovery is fine, and it actually pretty good [for Roy], but the problem is is that Roy falls so fast that you often times won't have an opportunity to actually recover at a more vertical angle.

He's a fast-faller, of course meaning that he can get combo'd easily and he's terrible off-stage, so I feel that a tad bit of compensation is in order for that. You're pretty much doomed with Roy anytime your some ways off-stage, I don't think that should ever be the case with any character. And Mario's Up-B was short ranged too, but you guys gave him a wall jump after it, and Falcon can of course reset his mid-air jump with Down-B. It seems everyone with a previously bad recovery has been given a situational tool to help compensate for it, why not give one to Roy? The Side-B is not enough and barely helps.

I love Roy, and I'm all about keeping Roy as Roy, weaknesses and all. But my one complaint with him is his angled Blazer and that's it. If you guys could help him recover a little easier horizontally, that would be great.

 

[Blade-Fox]

So, I've been playing Roy since he was released, and was a Lucas main since 2.5, but haven't played Lucas much at all recently. I switch to him for two matches, and my opponent tells me to stop playing Roy.

Yeah, sounds about right.

I'm doing this with Fox lol. I go to play Fox for a match or two and then Roy just comes back out.


I personally feel like Roy's recovery is fine. If I had to tune it somehow, I'd make his DED stall a little better. I'd actually work on his onstage game. Just a little something to help him with approaching and making opportunities for himself or applying pressure. It would be a very small tweak though. Maybe make him slightly faster (and I mean ever so slightly).

 

[Alondite]

He has ridiculous KO potential and easily combos into KO moves, but seems to get punished easily at low percents and has trouble killing at higher percents because he can't combo into his kill moves. I'd put him upper-mid.