I have really strong opinions/feelings on the viability of Roy. He has the potential to go far if solo-mained and has excellent niche as a counterpick for certain players/stages/characters. Marth outclasses him, but nowhere near as much as people think. Roy isn't top 8, but he's up there. If people are willing to exit the mid-2000's for IC's, Yoshi, and Pikachu, then I hope they can do it for Roy.
Roy is at the right tier and is hovering around the right position in the low-tier (Zelda should be lower than him though). His position in the list all comes down to the shortcomings he has, disadvantages that other characters above him don't suffer from. Most of these characters above him can still do what he does with much less difficulty, and one mess-up with him can severely hinder him in high-level play.
So yes, he does have combos, he has tools, and he can win even his hardest matchups through smart use of DD, side-B, down-tilt, CC and overall a ton of hard work invested in him. But concerning his tier list position, (and according to the title, this is what this topic is about), regardless of how many things he might be able to do, fact remains that he's outperformed at the highest levels: the majority of characters above him can do many of the things he does without worrying about his shortcomings.
The important thing to remember is that a tier list doesn't tell you who you should play: a tier list tells you how each character performs compared to the rest of the cast. Yes, Roy does have things going for him, and although it is possible to win when invested enough time in him, it's really difficult to make full use of his advantages and negate his shortcomings.
But hey, please feel free to prove us wrong if you truly believe Roy should be higher. Become as good as you can with him. If you love Roy, and love playing as him, then keep on going. You're gonna have more fun playing as a character you love rather than playing one you don't.
You seem to be one of the very, very few who can discuss Roy and make perfect sense. I agree with this. Everyone else is stuck in 2004 and early 2005 for Roy, when he was around Yoshi/IC's/Pika for a really long time no matter where he shifted. I think he's about as good as those three specifically (I don't agree with IC's being top 8 at all, I think they're Yoshi/Pika good though) and aim to prove it. Everyone either overrates him and acts like he's a top 8, or they act like he has no potential whatsoever. There's been little to no originality in Roy discussion for almost a decade, and it's refreshing to see some.
Sethlon gave it his all with Roy and didn't achieve a thing. Yoshi and Mewtwo do have extremely glaring weaknesses like Roy (Mewtwo is light as a feather with a gigantic hitbox and Yoshi has no answer to shield pressure along with being extremely vulnerable if he doesn't have his second jump) however, unlike Roy both of these characters have strengths that can be used against someone who doesn't know how to properly exploit their weaknesses. Mewtwo has a great grab game, a decent defensive option in his up-b, as well as a decent combo game. Yoshi has double jump cancel combos, parrying, and subtractive knockback armor on his double jump making him somewhat difficult to edgeguard without the proper timing. Roy on the other hand has very little he can do that Marth can't do better. Pretty much the only thing Roy can do that Marth can't is follow up on down tilt with an aerial. Marth has a better recovery and considering that his recovery is decidedly mediocre it really shows just how bad Roy's is. Other than that Marth's moves are universally less laggy, have better hitbox placement, give more follow ups, come out faster, and deal more damage when spaced correctly. Marth also has better OoS options than Roy and considering that Marth really only has 2 good OoS options (Wavedash and up-b) and one decent one (Dair) that says a lot.
Many players have given Fox/Marth/Sheik their all for years and have gotten nowhere. You think one example matters for Roy? Are you going to hide behind one player's shortcomings and use that to excuse your own potential or potential of other players with Roy? At least use neo as an example, he beat top players and made lots of money primarily with Roy, and didn't invest more than a few years. Not a god-tier Roy but he has a solid foundation that needs to be built on. If more people attempted to build on his foundation and innovate on their own instead of fanboy over okay Roys, copy them, and hide behind their failures, we'd see more Roys placing.
Yoshi and Mewtwo are outclassed hard by Marth as well and Marth does practically everything better than both of them, yet you're still downplaying Roy a lot. He may be a clone of Marth, but he has a good amount of tools and some niche factors over Marth. I see him as an excellent counterpick character that is be better than Marth in a good amount of character/player/stage spreads, and I still see a lot in solo-maining Roy. You act like Yoshi's recovery is so unpredictable and good, then give a character with a ton of recovery mixups nothing. Edgeguarding is starting to matter less and less in a game where vertical kill moves/confirms are becoming more dominant (which Roy's fall speed is excellent at averting), and where characters flat-out die off the side or bottom blastzones more often. You should lose your stock if you're being pressured offstage no matter who you are, anyways. You can be as tricky as you want but missed punishes can only be excused to a certain extent. Roy still has DED swings, saving his jump, good DI (can take advantage of when other characters would die when you wouldn't easier for more room to manuever), he doesn't fall to the Marthslayer edgeguard, and he can drastically angle Blazer to be tricky.
Marth is better but this honestly doesn't hold back Roy from moving up a good chunk of spots in the slightest at full potential. His neutral and punish game are very strong. You should kill many characters off one dthrow at 0 with competent tech chasing, a stray sweespot fair at 60-70 should lead into 3-4 more hits or a finisher, and you have tools to punish a lot. Even Peach/Puff can eat huge Roy combos at mid percents, and the characters Roy can't tech chase to death (Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Bowser, a handful of others) are ones Roy usually beats. Just because players suck with Roy's punish game and don't have the balls to follow up a lot of stuff or put more effort into beating all of an opponent's options so that they can't do anything about a combo even after they exit hitstun doesn't mean Roy has bad punishes or combo tools. Almost everything in his general kit is a good combo tool. Regrab, regrab, regrab. Experiment and innovate. Blazer OoS is really good, especially versus shine pressure and whiffed attacks. Even better than Samus's imo. It's good simply to rack up damage and swat someone away, like Samus's, and it knocks spacies away a lot farther than they should go, considering their properties versus Blazer. SH Dair and wavedash OoS are still really good for Roy. Reverse Blazer can kill in some character/stage MU's at 0 since its knockback is fixed, but it's still super overrated. It's there, though.
I'm not saying that Roy is top 8, but he's not anywhere near bottom 8. Seeing someone say his MU with spacies on FD is 25/75 in their favor is just something that makes me snicker quite a bit. Don't just braindead cg with him and play the character wrong to where you can't get good followups. Learn tech chasing as it's guaranteed on every stage, rewards you more both in short and long term, and is something Roy has much more utility with. Fthrow and dthrow and experiment. Look in more places, innovate and create, challenge yourself as a player more. Roy is difficult to optimize but he will give you a lot as a player and a lot to win, this is the essence of a Fire Emblem lord. Maybe a decent Roy didn't change much, but that's just one player who doesn't believe in himself enough and push himself enough. This isn't just from outside observations, this is from Skype conversations with him where I've firsthand seen his self doubt beat him.
The problem is that his combos are difficult to set up, mostly just d-tilt(his only combo tool). Plus you don't get much out of his combos. Another factor in why Roy would be placed this low would be His terrible approach options.
Why would you main Roy if he's low in your eyes without the potential to climb, though? I honestly don't see the point. You're better off with Marth or another top pick if you really do feel that way and don't see potential.
http://challonge.com/rc1amateur
amateur bracket of 43, but better than any results y'all have to offer
This is good. You didn't even drop a game until the very end which is probably the most noteworthy part. I've been playing Smash competitively for less than a year (studying competitive smash for years, not maining Roy until 2014), but I got 9th out of 60ish people in a normal bracket with solo Roy in a good region (CO) at my first tournament. I rarely do get to travel, but many of my improvements and fine-tuning should show when I get another opportunity via work and smash hopefully colliding well again. I have to drive a few hours for Smash and have a randomly-generated full-time work schedule, so I'm biding my time and training hard. Maybe I haven't entered Melee for a while, but I'm looking to do big things if I can end up lucky and go to Summit 7 and Melee Mondays this Sun and next Mon-Tue from what I requested. I spend too much time on Smash 4, with it being the only game I can play online. This thread's motivated me to look seriously into Melee again, because Roy still needs heroes in Melee. I have more than enough in fundamentals and mental game now to afford solo practice for a while.