Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Robert of Normandy]

This is what the Pokemon Roster would look like if we had 1 for each gen.
View attachment 2547

Thus explaining why we don't represent by generation.

 

[Bajef8]

Mewtwo > any potential newcomer for Pokemon

 

[?????????????]

I doubt it'd be Blaziken. Plusle & Minun make a more unique character and are a duo. Besides, Blaziken is a starter. Zoroark's time has passed. Pokemon has moved on to Genesect.

Does that make Plusle and Minun more unique? Ice Climbers are already a duo, and Pikachu is already an electric rodent. Not to mention that Mega Blaziken is currently getting a lot of promotion in both the game and the anime. Zoroark is still representative of the 5th gen, more so than Genesect. It's just like when people advocated for Darkrai replacing Lucario in "whatever the next SSB" was because of the Darkrai movie.

 

[N3ON]

I doubt it'd be Blaziken.

Blaziken is more popular, now more relevant, and is going to be used fairly heavily in upcoming promotion.

Plusle & Minun make a more unique character and are a duo.

Uniqueness is what you make of it. Both charactes can be unique. It might be different if we didn't already have a duo...

Besides, Blaziken is a starter.

Irrelevant.

Zoroark's time has passed. Pokemon has moved on to Genesect.

And Genesect's time is also close to passing as well. He pretty much has until the 12th until he's largely pushed aside. Zoroark had more popularity during his time than Genesect did, and was used just as regularly in promotion, if not more.

 

[Chandeelure]

Oh god,stop,the only possible newcomer is mewtwo or just another trainer ...

 

[?????????????]

Well...Lucario has a type advantage.

 

[Gune]

<.<
>.>

pikachu jiggly puff lucario pokemon trainer and mewtwo thats all we need. that is all.

 

[AEMehr]

Would you two care to elaborate on what you think the others would do? It's far more interesting than discussing whether Bandanna Dee=Goomba, whether Ganondorf's swords are brute force or skill or Meowth's slim chances yet again.

We didn't discuss all of them, but thought from both of us did go into them. I'll write what I think all of them should should do and share it when it's completed. Robert might have some different ideas from myself though, much like with Tails. (We didn't actually talk about what ALL of them will do, just some of the more crazy ones)

But why no third Metal Gear Assist when you have three new Assists for Sonic and Mega Man?

We originally had Metal Gear Ray among them, but we shaved him off when we couldn't figure something out. It's still technically a wip.

For starters I'd say that assist trophies should be more than just fighters, and should never be someone who directly shares moves with another character (Louie, Slippy, Blue, Dark Samus. I don't really know what Tails, Brewster, or ROB would do. I had Duck Hunt Dog as a dud trophy btw.

EDIT: I had the idea of Roy as an Assist Trophy too.

Well uh, as you can clearly tell. Not a lot of these guys are fighters. But the entire point of assist trophies was to add characters who could fit in, but didn't have enough to work with / just weren't top priority. So I have to disagree with your "never be someone who directly shares moves", especially since you don't even know what we had in mind for those characters (Also seriously, did you even read the past two pages? We already suggested what Tails and Brewster would have already done.).

Here..

Well the things that bother me the most with your roster is the lack of Mewtwo and the inclusion of Kawashima. Mewtwo has every right to be in over Zoroark. If you want Gen 5 repped, you have Pokéballs and a potential Kyurem boss.
Kawashima is assist trophy material at best (I literally have no idea how I forgot about him in the assist trophy roster things I did with robert argh). I recognize Brain Age's popularity and all, but it fits the same bill as Nintendogs did in Brawl.

why not shulk!?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Chandeelure]

Well...Lucario has a type advantage.

But,Zoroark is faster and learns flamethrower.

 

[N3ON]

I'd say the only characters we "need" are Pikachu, PKMN Trainer, and Mewtwo. The mascot and most popular character, the original and most popular protagonist (with the most iconic and popular starters), and the pseudo-antagonist and most popular legendary. Covers Pokemon pretty well as a whole imo. Ofc after that there a character choices better than others, like Lucario...

And at this point we're not going to be rid of Jiggs (not that she's a bad character or anything). But imo, the series would be covered as its most essential with just those three.

 

[Curious Villager]

Why do some people call Mewtwo a newcomer? :/ Shouldn't we be referring to him as a "returner" or "veteran" or whatever? :/

 

[?????????????]

But,Zoroark is faster and learns flamethrower.

Yeah, but it's Sp. Attack stat isn't that great...or is it? I always thought of Zoroark as an Attack/Speed type. Certainly not defense, that's Zoroark's downfall. I don't think it could take more than a single Aura Sphere from Lucario.

At least, that's my experience with Zoroark. It was very fun, but man, it couldn't take hits.

EDIT: Nope, nevermind. Zoroark has great Special Attack. I was using it all wrong

 

[Hotfeet444]

Well...Lucario has a type advantage.

I dunno, Zoroark can learn Flamethrower and Focus Blast.

Also, G'afternoon all, good to see you're all doing well.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I'm just gonna say it. I really find Genesect-support to be one of the most asinine things.

Genesect is an event legendary, like Deoxys and Darkrai. It's humanoid, has its own movie, is considered to be "cool" within its demographic, and has a 600 BST. There is literally nothing to differentiate it from the other two besides having a gimmicky signature move and focusing on less Psychic-based attacked. And then there's the fact that Deoxys and Darkrai were pretty much forgotten at the end of their generations. I mean, hell, we saw a ton of appearances of Deoxys in Generation IV, and Darkrai was just everywhere in Generation V, right guys? Anyone who insists Genesect is going to have different treatment is sadly mistaking themselves. It's a powerful Pokemon with only temporary spotlight--move on already.

And what about Zoroark? Last I checked, Zoroark was the 1st revealed Gen V Pokemon, the first Gen V Pokemon to have its own movie, and the one to have one-only in-game distributions within its generation. Not Genesect. You know who else followed all that criteria? Lucario, not Darkrai. If we're getting a Gen V rep., it's going to be Zoroark. It was marketed as the representative of an entire generation and that's how it will stay.

Were all that not enough, there's still competition against Lucario and Mewtwo for a spot in Smash Bros., both of whom are vastly more popular...

So seriously, what does Genesect friggin' have?

 

[BluePikmin11]

why not shulk!?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Too new and early for me personally to judge Shulk as a Nintendo All Star.
Don't you think Dr. Kawashima would be interesting with attacks that summon math and pi!!!!

 

[?????????????]

I dunno, Zoroark can learn Flamethrower and Focus Blast.

Yeah, but Lucario's fighting moves get boosted from the fact he's actually a fighting-type.

 

[Gune]

I dunno, Zoroark can learn Flamethrower and Focus Blast.

Also, G'afternoon all, good to see you're all doing well.

its all about the higher priority moves zoroark is as fragile as a thousand year old toothpick.

 

[Arcanir]

But,Zoroark is faster and learns flamethrower.

Lucario survives and uses Close Combat.

 

[Curious Villager]

To be honest. I kinda wish Pokemon could have at least 6 slots. I do want to see Zoroark in the game, really. She was one of my favourite 5th gen pokemon.... Oh well, guess we will have to wait and see what happens to the Pokemon side I guess.... :/

 

[Hotfeet444]

Yeah, but Lucario's fighting moves get boosted from the fact he's actually a fighting-type.

True, but like Zoroark, Lucario's not exactly a stone-wall of defense in an actual battle. And considering that Zoroark can run rings around Lucario, Zoroark could win. But hey, it's even game depending on the stats, the nature, the item being held.

its all about the higher priority moves zoroark is as fragile as a thousand year old toothpick.

What about the fact that Zoroark is much faster and would probably get the first hit off?

 

[N3ON]

Too new and early for me personally to judge Shulk as a Nintendo All Star.
Don't you think Dr. Kawashima would be interesting with attacks that summon math and pi!!!!

Age is not the only thing that dictates whether a character is an "all-star" or not. Shulk has made a bigger impact and has more going for him than Prince Sable ever has.

Plus characters have been included in Smash after only being like one or two year old creations before. Heck, was Roy an All-Star before he was included?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Zoroark is my favorite also, above Lucario and Mewtwo.

 

[?????????????]

To be honest. I kinda wish Pokemon could have at least 6 slots. I do want to see Zoroark in the game, really. She was one of my favourite 5th gen pokemon.... Oh well, guess we will have to wait and see what happens to the Pokemon side I guess.... :/

Yeah. There's a lot of great Pokemon characters, so it'd be cool to see a nice pool, but...there's a lot of great Nintendo characters, so Pokemon can't take a bigger priority; to me, at least not a bigger priority than Mario (equal is good, I think). I bet 5 is the most we're going to get, but that's just a guess.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Lucario survives and uses Close Combat.

Lucario surviving a Special Attack from Zoroark on a base stat Special Defense of 70? Zoroark's may be 60, but Lucario is barely any better.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Age is not the only thing that dictates whether a character is an "all-star" or not. Shulk has made a bigger impact and has more going for him than Prince Sable ever has.

Plus characters have been included in Smash after only being like one or two year old creations before. Heck, was Roy an All-Star before he was included?

Hmm.. good point again.
But Prince Sable is another "classic" character along with Takamaru, Shulk is a different situation.

 

[Gune]

I'd say the only characters we "need" are Pikachu, PKMN Trainer, and Mewtwo. The mascot and most popular character, the original and most popular protagonist (with the most iconic and popular starters), and the pseudo-antagonist and most popular legendary. Covers Pokemon pretty well as a whole imo. Ofc after that there a character choices better than others, like Lucario...

And at this point we're not going to be rid of Jiggs (not that she's a bad character or anything). But imo, the series would be covered as its most essential with just those three.

I'd say at this point there really isnt any other pokemon well other than meowth but thats for other reason to be there other lucario hes pretty much earned his spot among the pokemon that represent the series as a whole more so than any other non gen 1 pokemon.

 

[Chandeelure]

Lucario survives and uses Close Combat.

Lucario has crappy defenses and if he has a focus sash,well,zoroark can have one too,and if lucario has extremespeed,zoroark has sucker punch.
-Zoroark use flamethrower.
-Lucario survives and use close combat.
-Zoroark survives and use sucker punch.
End of the discussion

 

[Arcanir]

Lucario surviving a Special Attack from Zoroark on a base stat Special Defense of 70? Zoroark's may be 60, but Lucario is barely any better.

I'm playing this off of memory, but assuming both are at lv 100, Zoroark using a non-STAB Flamethrower even with Life Orb should not KO Lucario, even under the best circumstances. Whereas Lucario would at least do a huge chunk of damage to Zoroark and can clean up with Extreme Speed.

Lucario has crappy defenses and if he has a focus sash,well,zoroark can have one too,and if lucario has extremespeed,zoroark has sucker punch.
-Zoroark use flamethrower.
-Lucario survives and use close combat.
-Zoroark survives and use sucker punch.
End of the discussion

Sucker Punch is resisted by Lucario, and he has Extreme Speed, so still not favorable.

 

[?????????????]

True, but like Zoroark, Lucario's not exactly a stone-wall of defense in an actual battle. And considering that Zoroark can run rings around Lucario, Zoroark could win. But hey, it's even game depending on the stats, the nature, the item being held.

What about the fact that Zoroark is much faster and would probably get the first hit off?

If Zoroark has to rely on Flamethrower or Focus Blast, I think Lucario can take the hit. Maybe I wouldn't think so if Zoroark were a Fire or Fighting type, but I think Lucario is endurant enough to survive it, while one shot from Lucario is all that would be needed to take Zoroark down.

However, it COULD make a difference if Zoroark was disguised in the beginning. Lucario wouldn't get the chance to pull off two moves, and that would probably be enough for Zoroark.

Then again, Lucario could try to finish it off with Extremespeed, assuming the attack he used at first at least dealt a decent amount of damage, which is fairly possible given Zoroark's low defense.

Ah, but someone mentioned Sucker Punch, which I forgot about. It's gonna be a good fight no matter what, so it's not as simple as I initially thought.

...Damn, this makes me wish they were both in SSB.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Hmm.. good point again.
But Prince Sable is another "classic" character along with Takamaru, Shulk is a different situation.

Shulk's situation makes more sense. We don't need to give an over-abundance of classic franchises, the addition of Takamaru is more than enough, along with Little Mac if you count him as Classic. Shulk, however, represents a newer era of Nintendo and a new business partner that Nintendo has acquired over the years. Not to mention it was a pretty large commercial success, so much to the fact that retailers are trying hard to get restocked on said title because alot of people want to buy it. Shulk, in my opinion, is a perfect candidate for this Smash Bros.

If Zoroark has to rely on Flamethrower or Focus Blast, I think Lucario can take the hit. Maybe I wouldn't think so if Zoroark were a Fire or Fighting type, but I think Lucario is endurant enough to survive it, while one shot from Lucario is all that would be needed to take Zoroark down.

However, it COULD make a difference if Zoroark was disguised in the beginning. Lucario wouldn't get the chance to pull off two moves, and that would probably be enough for Zoroark.

Then again, Lucario could try to finish it off with Extremespeed, assuming the attack he used at first at least dealt a decent amount of damage, which is fairly possible given Zoroark's low defense.

Ah, but someone mentioned Sucker Punch, which I forgot about. It's gonna be a good fight no matter what, so it's not as simple as I initially thought.

...Damn, this makes me wish they were both in SSB.

Not to mention the use of possible Focus Sashes or even Life Orbs. Besides, Lucario's base special defense and defense stat are only 10 higher than Zoroark, so I'm not sure if could survive a flamethrower from Zoroark.

And yes, after all the torture poor Zoroark went through in her movie, I do wish she could get in. I did make her a personal wish, but seeing how the 5th Gen will most likely be ignored, it's not going to happen.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Lucario has crappy defenses and if he has a focus sash,well,zoroark can have one too,and if lucario has extremespeed,zoroark has sucker punch.
-Zoroark use flamethrower.
-Lucario survives and use close combat.
-Zoroark survives and use sucker punch.
End of the discussion

I'm playing this off of memory, but assuming both are at lv 100, Zoroark using a non-STAB Flamethrower even with Life Orb should not KO Lucario, even under the best circumstances. Whereas Lucario would at least do a huge chunk of damage to Zoroark and can clean up with Extreme Speed.

Extreme Speed has +2 priority. Sucker Punch only has one.

This is also vastly dependent on who Zoroark has transformed into on switching in, as well as who has the higher speed stat, Choice Scarf/Focus Sash/Life Orb, what move is used... Both of you sound naive assuming either one wins over the other. It all depends on the conditions.

Besides, everyone knows Speed Boost Blaziken would curb stomp either of them.

 

[N3ON]

Hmm.. good point again.
But Prince Sable is another "classic" character along with Takamaru, Shulk is a different situation.

And what makes you think we'll get two "classic" characters with neither serving the G&W/ROB role anyway? Let alone two "classic" characters who had the majority of their impact in Japan only, Sable pretty much having all his impact in Japan only? (keeping in mind Sakurai prefers to minimize the amount of characters like this on the roster).

I'd say at this point there really isnt any other pokemon well other than meowth but thats for other reason to be there other lucario hes pretty much earned his spot among the pokemon that represent the series as a whole more so than any other non gen 1 pokemon.

Dear gawd what have you done with the punctuation?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

If I was just going with personal favorite characters, my ideal roster would include Sceptile. But just because I like a character doesn't mean I think it's the best rep or the most likely rep for SSB.

:o
You're officially cool in my book.

In my dream Smash Bros game, I'd like the Grovyle from PMD2 as a spinoff fighter, Treecko/Marshtomp/Blaziken with a 3rd gen trainer, and Sceptile as a Pokeball Pokemon who has the same function as Lyndis did as an Assist Trophy. (Lyn would be playable)

----

 

[Gune]

True, but like Zoroark, Lucario's not exactly a stone-wall of defense in an actual battle. And considering that Zoroark can run rings around Lucario, Zoroark could win. But hey, it's even game depending on the stats, the nature, the item being held.



What about the fact that Zoroark is much faster and would probably get the first hit off?

priority moves zoroark is fast but he's not faster than a vacum wave or extreme speed or bullet punch though he might be able to survive it maybe and if things get sticky for luc he has a trump card...

and then suddenly mega zoroark is confirmed...

 

[AEMehr]

Too new and early for me personally to judge Shulk as a Nintendo All Star.
Don't you think Dr. Kawashima would be interesting with attacks that summon math and pi!!!!

Three years is too new? Pokémon came out three years before the original Smash.
I hardly find that as a reasonable excuse.

Kawashima would be interesting as an assist trophy teaching donkey kong how to count!!11!1!1!!1 maybe if he spends time with kawashima, the tikis would probably be able to hypnotize him next time!1!!!!!!

EDIT: @Zoroark vs Lucario discussion
I personally use a Zoroark and my friend uses a Lucario.
My Zoroark always goes first and kills his Lucario first try all the time using Flamethrower. If he had Mach Punch on Lucario, it would probably always kill Zoroark first.

Extremespeed would hit first obviously, but not enough to kill unless he had a Normal Gem or a critical hit. Oh, and Aura Sphere is a OHKO on Zoroark as well.

 

[Chandeelure]

Oh well,nobody cares,in melee you can destroy mewtwo with jigglypuff XD

 

[?????????????]

and then suddenly mega zoroark is confirmed...

I am curious on whether or not there will be a Mega Zoroark. I think it makes sense. If I remember correctly, they recently announced that none of the new Pokemon will have Mega Evolutions.

 

[Gune]

Dear gawd what have you done with the punctuation?

My phone is a ass when it comes to typing, it sure loves to correct me with wrong stuff all the time.

I am curious on whether or not there will be a Mega Zoroark. I think it makes sense. If I remember correctly, they recently announced that none of the new Pokemon will have Mega Evolutions.

Hmm that is interesting... I dont think there will be a bunch of them though since each one needs a specific stone but I do hope metagross gets one.

 

[?????????????]

Oh well,nobody cares,in melee you can destroy mewtwo with jigglypuff XD

This here is exactly why I hate the "Ridley would be OP" argument.

 

[Arcanir]

Extreme Speed has +2 priority. Sucker Punch only has one.

This is also vastly dependent on who Zoroark has transformed into on switching in, as well as who has the higher speed stat, Choice Scarf/Focus Sash/Life Orb, what move is used... Both of you sound naive assuming either one wins over the other. It all depends on the conditions.

Besides, everyone knows Speed Boost Blaziken would curb stomp either of them.

I was assuming a straight on one-on-one battle, in which there's no transformation and the moves used are their traditional sets. Overall, Zoroark still has quite a bit of difficulty in that situation, of course depending on the skill levels and preparation on both sides.

If we're assuming 6-on-6, then neither should be facing each other.