Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

I think Goroh would be a mixture of both Samurai abilities from Nazo No Murasame and punching moves.

I would imagine that Takamaru would use Nazo no Murasame Jo moves over Goroh.
Because I understand it would be a sort of homage, but why not just add the character you are referencing if a large chunk of your moveset revolves around them.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Quick question...why the hell is semi-clones the discussion for newcomers when it's overall pretty clear that uniqueness is king this time around? Also, as for Jigglypuff, he/she could be changed up this time around to match fairy type, why are you wasting time talking about how it's a semi-clone of Kirby when it may not even be that anymore?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Bubbles as a Pac-Man clone?

Eating = Panel Flipping
Pellet Chain = Panel Chain
Ghost Sheild = Unira Sheild
Rolling = Rolling

 

[Deleted member]

Much like how Toon Link was changed up, Hotfeet?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I can see Hades as being somewhat of a semi-clone of Ganondorf too, I have a fixed mind that Hades could share some moves from Ganondorf, only the moves are more trollish.

So he would be a Captain Falcon clone?

I think Goroh would be a mixture of both Samurai abilities from Nazo No Murasame and punching moves.

Honestly, adding Takamaru would make a lot more sense. Giving Goroh moves from Takamaru isn't staying true to the character, which is what Sakurai takes a lot of value in.

 

[Deleted member]

Why are we talking about giving Goroh moves from Takamaru, when we could just have Goroh be Goroh and Takamaru be Takamaru?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Err, I think Hades would be slow and powerful as Ganondorf, hence why I say he's a semi-clone of Ganondorf.
Only he has surprise moves that can really irritate the opponent.

 

[Deleted member]

To clear up the whole Goroh/Takamaru thing, think of this:

Both are samurai.

But picture Goroh as a Sumo-Samurai, and Takamaru as a Ninja-Samurai.

Problem solved.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ganondorf should just be treated like the new Zelda character and given his own specials (up B, B, down B) and smashes (forward and down).

 

[josh bones]

So How do you guys feel about seviper?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Much like how Toon Link was changed up, Hotfeet?

Sakurai stated he wants the two links to play like one another, it's kind of like his personal rule for the two. There's no rule that puffballs must be the same now is there?

 

[RankoChan]

Back on the topic of newcomers, does anyone find it odd only 2 newcomers were shown off in the debut trailer? (WFT was shown separately later) IIRC Melee's debut trailer showed off 5 newcomers and Brawl's debut trailer showed off 6.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Why are we talking about giving Goroh moves from Takamaru, when we could just have Goroh be Goroh and Takamaru be Takamaru?

That's basically how I feel about it.

However, I think if you're talking about Goroh with just his sword and being a semi-clone of Falcon, then it would just be imitating Nintendo's thoughts on the series in general. Which is, " we have no plans until we can come up with something new".

If Goroh is at his base a swordsman, then he has a much larger pool of characters to compete with, being Isaac, Shulk, Fire Emblem character... I've never really been a fan of Goroh myself either. I just think adding him for the sake of giving F-Zero another character is a stupid reason.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I would imagine that Takamaru would use Nazo no Murasame Jo moves over Goroh.
Because I understand it would be a sort of homage, but why not just add the character you are referencing if a large chunk of your moveset revolves around them.

Because you would have the appeal of Takamaru while still having a retro and Samurai Goroh.

I think 2 characters over one would make more sense. You'd get your Samurai with Nazo No Murasame references and abilites, a requested F-Zero character, and a Puzzle Retro girl.

If you had Takamaru, you could have neither Samurai Goroh or another retro. So I think Samurai Goroh will get in over him as F-Zero needs more representation and you'd still get a retro as well as your Samurai.

Honestly, adding Takamaru would make a lot more sense. Giving Goroh moves from Takamaru isn't staying true to the character, which is what Sakurai takes a lot of value in.

How is not true to his character? He's a Samurai so why can't he use a Samurai Sword, Shurikens, and fire? Captain Falcon didn't have fire. And Villager didn't really have Balloons. That was just a game you could play in Animal Crossing. Fox didn't have all that gear, he got it because he was an Arwing Pilot. And Ice Climbers got the Freezies from Mario Bros.

I just think adding him for the sake of giving F-Zero another character is a stupid reason.

That's not the only reason. He's incredibly important to the franchise. More than Falco is to Star Fox.

 

[Morbi]

To clear up the whole Goroh/Takamaru thing, think of this:

Both are samurai.

But picture Goroh as a Sumo-Samurai, and Takamaru as a Ninja-Samurai.

Problem solved.

They wouldn't play anything alike despite being Samurai, even if they were both sumo-samurai. Not really directed at you, your post was just relevant and apparently someone needs to bring this up everyday.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai stated he wants the two links to play like one another, it's kind of like his personal rule for the two. There's no rule that puffballs must be the same now is there?

He never said that.
He said that as a rule, all Specials are the same. Toon Link being changed up like you propose Jigglypuff (which is the normal attacks) was just as viable.

 

[KirbyKamikazi]

Back on the topic of newcomers, does anyone find it odd only 2 newcomers were shown off in the debut trailer? (WFT was shown separately later) IIRC Melee's debut trailer showed off 5 newcomers and Brawl's debut trailer showed off 6.

A little odd, but it make sense at the same time, because Mega Man was the main focus of the trailer. But it see about 10-13 newcomers this game, (excluding potential DLC)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Because you would have the appeal of Takamaru while still having a retro and Samurai Goroh.

I think 2 characters over one would make more sense. You'd get your Samurai with Nazo No Murasame references and abilites, a requested F-Zero character, and a Puzzle Retro girl.

If you had Takamaru, you could have neither Samurai Goroh or another retro. So I think Samurai Goroh will get in over him as F-Zero needs more representation and you'd still get a retro as well as your Samurai.



How is not true to his character? He's a Samurai so why can't he use a Samurai Sword, Shurikens, and fire? Captain Falcon didn't have fire. And Villager didn't really have Balloons. That was just a game you could play in Animal Crossing. Fox didn't have all that gear, he got it because he was an Arwing Pilot. And Ice Climbers got the Freezies from Mario Bros.

They could at least relate to the content of the game. Falcon is based on an F-Zero racer, Fox is an arwing, Ice Climbers have a lot to do with ice.

Samurai Goroh doesn't actually do any of that ninja esque stuff. As Golden said, he's more of a Sumo kinda guy.

Also, not that it matters, but adding Goroh because "F-Zero needs more representation" is in my own opinion, a terrible reason to add a character. It's like, "This series has one guy, so let's just throw this guy in there" type of reasoning. Goroh would get in on his own merits. Not because F-Zero needs another guy.

 

[Bowserlick]

As long as Takamaru or Goroh refuse to clap in the background during the victory screen if they lost and instead perform seppuku, I don't care which one gets in.

 

[Deleted member]

That's basically how I feel about it.

However, I think if you're talking about Goroh with just his sword and being a semi-clone of Falcon, then it would just be imitating Nintendo's thoughts on the series in general. Which is, " we have no plans until we can come up with something new".

If Goroh is at his base a swordsman, then he has a much larger pool of characters to compete with, being Isaac, Shulk, Fire Emblem character... I've never really been a fan of Goroh myself either. I just think adding him for the sake of giving F-Zero another character is a stupid reason.

Goroh wouldn't be just to give F-Zero another character anymore than Ridley would be just to give Metroid another character; Goroh would be because he's a major figure to his series (like Ridley, but in not exactly the same way), is a recurring figure in Smash despite not being playable (like Ridley), and is generally a wanted character (not as much as Ridley, and ever since the anime came out in Japan, Black Shadow took lead for this over there).
Ridley may not be the best comparison; Wolf might be better.


I guess I'm a little biased here, because I see Goroh, Wolf, and Ridley as the Space Outlaw Trio of sorts.
Especially since all three were in Melee's opening and were featured in Brawl in some prominent way (Assist, Character, Boss, respectively).

 

[Morbi]

Quick question...why the hell is semi-clones the discussion for newcomers when it's overall pretty clear that uniqueness is king this time around? Also, as for Jigglypuff, he/she could be changed up this time around to match fairy type, why are you wasting time talking about how it's a semi-clone of Kirby when it may not even be that anymore?

4 characters does not conceive a conclusive precedent. I mean, characters like Chrom and Dixie are coming up.

In all seriousness, it isn't entirely apparent that uniqueness is going to apply to all newcomers. I mean, it truly depends on the amount of newcomers. However, I will assert that it does seem likely that uniqueness is a factor as we are probably only going to get 4-8 more newcomers. I am thinking 6.

Also Jigglypuff a Kirby semi-clone? WTF?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Goroh wouldn't be just to give F-Zero another character anymore than Ridley would be just to give Metroid another character; Goroh would be because he's a major figure to his series (like Ridley, but in not exactly the same way), is a recurring figure in Smash despite not being playable (like Ridley), and is generally a wanted character (not as much as Ridley, and ever since the anime came out in Japan, Black Shadow took lead for this over there).
Ridley may not be the best comparison; Wolf might be better.

What I'm saying is that I doubt Sakurai would consider Goroh over another character, being put over the edge just because F-Zero "needs another character". He'll get in if Sakurai considers him. I just don't think F-Zero has much going for it in terms of new characters.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Goroh is at his base a swordsman, then he has a much larger pool of characters to compete with, being Isaac, Shulk, Fire Emblem character...

........how does he compete with those characters again? A Psynergy user, a guy with customized weapons, and a Marth clone? How does that compete with a Samurai? Shurikens, Invisibility, and shooting fire doesn't sound very similar to that. Roy, maybe. But, still.

They could at least relate to the content of the game. Falcon is based on an F-Zero racer, Fox is an arwing, Ice Climbers have a lot to do with ice.

Goroh is a Samurai. And how is Falcon based off a racer!?

Samurai Goroh doesn't actually do any of that ninja esque stuff.

Here is a list of characters that do stuff based on what they are and not what they actually did:

Also Falcon, ROB, and Sheik did not do stuff based off the game. Sheik was a Ninja and thus she got Ninja abilities. So it is fair to expect the same for Samurai Goroh.

Also, not that it matters, but adding Goroh because "F-Zero needs more representation" is in my own opinion, a terrible reason to add a character.

I think it's a really good reason as is Samurai Goroh being overdue and important to the series anyway. We got Falco and Wolf, why not Samurai Goroh?

It's like, "This series has one guy, so let's just throw this guy in there" type of reasoning. Goroh would get in on his own merits. Not because F-Zero needs another guy.

He does have his own merits. Hopefully I don't actually have to explain that.

 

[Hotfeet444]

He never said that.
He said that as a rule, all Specials are the same. Toon Link being changed up like you propose Jigglypuff (which is the normal attacks) was just as viable.

I think it's quite easy to assume that considering Link's play-style overall throughout the Zelda series has been very similar, as it's basic swordplay and using items, which is what the Link that's already does, and to keep an over-arching representation of the series intact, it's only expected that the other Link does the same, as he's still just using a sword for basic combat and using items. Sure there were various types of slashes from Wind Waker that could be implemented, but perhaps it was a way to show that in essence, all Links throughout the timeline are skilled swordsmen who fight with class? All part of the same story? It's mainly, in my opinion, a way of making it feel like one entity, the hero of Hyrule. That while they may have different personalities and appearances, but at the core they're all still heroes. The point is that there's at least reasons why Toon Link and Link are alot alike, but there's almost none to give a reason as to why Kirby and Jigglypuff are alike, aside from the fact that they're both round and pink.

 

[Morbi]

What I'm saying is that I doubt Sakurai would consider Goroh over another character, being put over the edge just because F-Zero "needs another character". He'll get in if Sakurai considers him. I just don't think F-Zero has much going for it in terms of new characters.

Does that not apply to every character? I do not think Sakurai sits down and looks at which series "need" another character, and based on precedent, Sakurai clearly has a thing for Goroh. He has Smash relevance second only to Ridley (If I recall correctly). Goroh will get in under the same circumstances that Lucas got in. Not because Mother "needs" another character, but because he wanted to add a character important to a franchise that has been around since the beginning.

 

[Baskerville]

What I'm saying is that I doubt Sakurai would consider Goroh over another character, being put over the edge just because F-Zero "needs another character". He'll get in if Sakurai considers him. I just don't think F-Zero has much going for it in terms of new characters.

You never know. Goroh could make it in if Sakurai sees potential in him, much like Rosalina.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What I'm saying is that I doubt Sakurai would consider Goroh over another character, being put over the edge just because F-Zero "needs another character". He'll get in if Sakurai considers him. I just don't think F-Zero has much going for it in terms of new characters.

Yeah, being one of the biggest and most highly regarded franchises from Nintendo isn't really much I guess. I'm sure Sakurai just completely forgot about F-Zero because there is some sort of Smashboards criteria about having a newly made retail installment. It's not how important a franchise is, it's how recent. That's why Smash fans have convinced themselves a KID ICARUS character is more deserving than an F-Zero character. Ironically for the reason of representing the game rather than the character.

I forgot, how many years exactly does it take for Sakurai to lose all care in a franchise? I don't quite recall the official number.

 

[Deleted member]

What I'm saying is that I doubt Sakurai would consider Goroh over another character, being put over the edge just because F-Zero "needs another character". He'll get in if Sakurai considers him. I just don't think F-Zero has much going for it in terms of new characters.

I honestly believe Goroh was considered for Brawl.
But that's just me.

Anywho, even if Goroh is in semi-clone territory, it's very reasonable that he'd be in the Wolf category, being very different with some similarities.
Goroh in general, I see as a potential "Leroy Jenkins" character of sorts, if that make any sense. A character completely opposite of technical characters like Rosalina; one that benefits from rushing in madly and just attack like there's no tomorrow. It fits how Sakurai portrays him as an Assist, his general personality, and his machine having a reckless style.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

As long as Takamaru or Goroh refuse to clap in the background during the victory screen if they lost and instead perform seppuku, I don't care which one gets in.

Whoooaaahh. That's a little too deep for Smash, don't you think?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

........how does he compete with those characters again? A Psynergy user, a guy with customized weapons, and a Marth clone? How does that compete with a Samurai? Shurikens, Invisibility, and shooting fire doesn't sound very similar to that. Roy, maybe. But, still.


Goroh is a Samurai. And how is Falcon based off a racer!?


Here is a list of characters that do stuff based on what they are and not what they actually did:

Also Falcon, ROB, and Sheik did not do stuff based off the game. Sheik was a Ninja and thus she got Ninja abilities. So it is fair to expect the same for Samurai Goroh.



I think it's a really good reason as is Samurai Goroh being overdue and important to the series anyway. We got Falco and Wolf, why not Samurai Goroh?

He does have his own merits. Hopefully I don't actually have to explain that.

I'll tell you right now that Goroh would NOT get invisibility. That has nothing to do with him OR F-Zero. You're taking way too much from Takamaru there.

Falcon being based off of a vehicle is somewhere in Sakurai's notes, and is something that Golden has brought up in this thread several times before. I don't know where to find it.

Goroh has his merits. Most character do. But I personally find him as a very bland addition to a game that has several unique characters. Taking elements that could be given to Takamaru and giving them to Goroh seems a bit...weird. Goroh is a different type of Samurai from what Golden was saying earlier, and I honestly don't think invisibility or shurikens would fit his character.

 

[Chandeelure]

Brace yourselves.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yeah, being one of the biggest and most highly regarded franchises from Nintendo isn't really much I guess. I'm sure Sakurai just completely forgot about F-Zero because there is some sort of Smashboards criteria about having a newly made retail installment. It's not how important a franchise is, it's how recent. That's why Smash fans have convinced themselves a KID ICARUS character is more deserving than an F-Zero character. Ironically for the reason of representing the game rather than the character.

I forgot, how many years exactly does it take for Sakurai to lose all care in a franchise? I don't quite recall the official number.

May I ask why you are putting words into my mouth? Did I ever say F-Zero wouldn't get anything because it wasn't recent? I said things aren't going F-Zero's way lately.

I didn't say he completely forgot about F-Zero, clearly he hasn't.

What that post said was, that I don't see him putting Goroh in SIMPLY BECAUSE F-Zero needs another character. It certainly seems that that is not how it works with character selection.

 

[Deleted member]

It's amazing how I switch from Goroh to Black Shadow continuously, yet neither are on my "Rogues" list.

I should change that.



EDIT: But even then, doesn't matter if Goroh or B. Shadow are there, since I still got mah "Space Outlaw Trio" that I mentioned earlier.

Someone make me an image of Goroh, Wolf, and Ridley as bros, please!

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah, being one of the biggest and most highly regarded franchises from Nintendo isn't really much I guess.

You must think that F-Zero is some kind of legendary franchise that everyone's heard of and played, huh?
Well it's not.
F-Zero is a B to C-list video game series that hasn't had a game in years. I could ask most people at my school if they've heard of it and they would say no. In fact I would bet that more consider Captain Falcon a Super Smash Bros character rather than an F-Zero character.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'll tell you right now that Goroh would NOT get invisibility. That has nothing to do with him OR F-Zero. You're taking way too much from Takamaru there.

Did Lasers have anything to do with ROB or Gyromite? Did Needles and a chain have anything to do with Sheik or Zelda?

Falcon being based off of a vehicle is somewhere in Sakurai's notes, and is something that Golden has brought up in this thread several times before. I don't know where to find it.

Because Vehicles Punch and grab people. I'm sure he's referring to his speed and attacks that ram into you. Like the Falcon kick/

Goroh has his merits. Most character do. But I personally find him as a very bland addition to a game that has several unique characters.

Opinion. A Hypocritical one for supporters of Takamaru

Taking elements that could be given to Takamaru and giving them to Goroh seems a bit...weird.

Goroh is a different type of Samurai from what Golden was saying earlier, and I honestly don't think invisibility or shurikens would fit his character.

Opinion. But, it's incredibly unlikely that he WOULDN'T get those abilities.

 

[Morbi]

It's amazing how I switch from Goroh to Black Shadow continuously, yet neither are on my "Rogues" list.

I should change that.

I am the same way, I actually like Black Shadow more, and I wouldn't mind if they just impute Ganon's move-set to him in order to retain the play-style, whilst giving Legend of Zelda fans a new Ganon that actually pertains to his series.

I just feel as though it is Goroh's time, if there is any character that wasn't in Smash yet, but deserves to be, it is that guy. Either way, I honestly believe that one of them is inevitable.

 

[Hotfeet444]

It's amazing how I switch from Goroh to Black Shadow continuously, yet neither are on my "Rogues" list.

I should change that.



EDIT: But even then, doesn't matter if Goroh or B. Shadow are there, since I still got mah "Space Outlaw Trio" that I mentioned earlier.

Someone make me an image of Goroh, Wolf, and Ridley as bros, please!

Well, if you had to choose between the two, who would you support more? Black Shadow or Samurai Goroh. Also, I can't help but think Outlaw Star everytime I read "Space Outlaw". Also, an image? Easy as Cake.

F-Zero is a B to C-list video game series that hasn't had a game in years. I could ask most people at my school if they've heard of it and they would say no.

Hey, sounds like me when I talk about Darkstalkers with people.

 

[Louie G.]

Opinion. But, it's incredibly unlikely that he WOULDN'T get those abilities.

Why?
Why does it make sense for Samurai Goroh to turn invisible?

 

[Morbi]

You must think that F-Zero is some kind of legendary franchise that everyone's heard of and played, huh?
Well it's not.
F-Zero is a B to C-list video game series that hasn't had a game in years. I could ask most people at my school if they've heard of it and they would say no. In fact I would bet that more consider Captain Falcon a Super Smash Bros character rather than an F-Zero character.

Guess who does know that Captain Falcon is an F-Zero character and one of the original 10 franchises? Sakurai. He is the one keeping the series relevant to Nintendo by his mere presence in Smash. That is honestly enough in my opinion. I don't really care if kids at your school don't know what franchise he is from.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You must think that F-Zero is some kind of legendary franchise that everyone's heard of and played, huh?

More than the people that played EarthBound and Kid Icarus.

Well it's not.

You clearly have NO idea how many people play and are fans of F-Zero.

F-Zero is a B to C-list video game series that hasn't had a game in years. I could ask most people at my school if they've heard of it and they would say no.

As they will to several franchise in Smash. But, if I asked several hardcore Nintendo fans they would say yes.

In fact I would bet that more consider Captain Falcon a Super Smash Bros character rather than an F-Zero character.

Weird basis for objection

Why?
Why does it make sense for Samurai Goroh to turn invisible?

He's a Samurai. Just like ROB shoots lasers because he is a robot.