Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Arcadenik]

I can't wait until that moment comes, I need the salty tears to survive.

Yes, for your appetizers... how about some stuffed mushrooms with salty tears as seasoning? /Toad

 

[Morbi]

I'm sorry, but there is just so much wrong with this post:

Your reason was arbitrary, I don't care what support you gave it, it is still arbitrary. If you wish to elaborate, I did not read anything outside of your post. You said that Wonder Red had no reason to be in Smash. You didn't offer anything else.

You can replace whoever you want with whoever you want. It doesn't make their chances any more likely.

That is another way to phrase "cuts". If he can't develop the character in time, they are cut. It is a different way of saying it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

More like the Great sacred treasure. the one of the 3 treasures was used in his moveset in brawl, as you can tell I played uprising recently.....

Except he no longer uses the Mirror Shield. Now he uses the Guardian Orbitars.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Except he no longer uses the Mirror Shield. Now he uses the Guardian Orbitars.

Yes I mentioned that before In an earlier post, but its nice to know that you noticed me

Anyway the Great sacred treasure would be a perfect replacement to that awful one he had in brawl. Even if it feels "landmasta ish"

 

[Hotfeet444]

I agree that characters like K. Rool and Ridley definitely deserve a spot first.
But althought the Mother games are amazing, they are not too popular or well known, while KI was a very very popular NES game.

That's half-true. They're not well known or popular HERE in the West, but they're, overall, very well known in the east, especially considering two of the series' three games are exclusives to said side of the world. And yes, Kid Icarus was popular back in the day, but which side of the world supported it more? ...No seriously, who supported it more, that's a legitimate question.

 

[Morbi]

That's half-true. They're not well known or popular HERE in the West, but they're, overall, very well known in the east, especially considering two of the series' three games are exclusives to said side of the world. And yes, Kid Icarus was popular back in the day, but which side of the world supported it more? ...No seriously, who supported it more, that's a legitimate question.

Sakurai and Sora Ltd. as they revived Pit through Smash and revived Kid Icarus to escape the monotony of Smash. That is all that is relevant in my opinion.

 

[Louie G.]

That's half-true. They're not well known or popular HERE in the West, but they're, overall, very well known in the east, especially considering two of the series' three games are exclusives to said side of the world. And yes, Kid Icarus was popular back in the day, but which side of the world supported it more? ...No seriously, who supported it more, that's a legitimate question.

I guess you're right, but Uprising is also very popular. So that's 2 very well known and popular titles, and one obscure one. Just like Mother. I'm not really sure about the answer to your question though.

 

[FlareHabanero]

And yes, Kid Icarus was popular back in the day, but which side of the world supported it more? ...No seriously, who supported it more, that's a legitimate question.

Something along the lines of Japan > North America > Europe > everywhere else.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I guess you're right, but Uprising is also very popular. So that's 2 very well known and popular titles, and one obscure one. Just like Mother. I'm not really sure about the answer to your question though.

That's true, it is one of the 3DS' greatest gems and definitely worth a buy, but then again, you also have Sakurai's modesty to deal with, even if he himself didn't create Palutena, he was the one who created this interpretation of her.

Something along the lines of Japan > North America > Europe > everywhere else.

Interesting. If this is the case, maybe Palutena's chances are a little higher than I thought...

 

[Gryffin]

Thanks for posting that info everybody.
I definitely agree with Little Mac. He was a very close runner-up for me.
I disagree with most everything else, though. As an accurate prediction, for clarification.
Starfy seems plausible, but he's sort of small and awkward. A definite possibility though.
Ridley also seems plausible, certainly, but the difference between him and everyone else is that he's a monster.
All of the other characters are humanoid. Even R.O.B. has some sort of intelligence.
It's difficult to identify with a character that lacks human characteristics.
Golden Sun should be represented. But I think that there are already enough sword wielders in the game.
We've got Marth, maybe Ike. Or another FE character in his stead. And Link and Toon, and Kid Icarus and Meta Knight.
Similarly, Takamaru is yet another sword wielder. My main arguments for their exclusion is that variety is key.
If I were designing Smash, I would seek variety. It's just more interesting.
Palutena is already in the game as Pit's final smash. As horrible of an argument as that sounds.
Personally, I'd find it more likely to have a villain from Uprising. Such as Phosphora or Virirdi. They were on my short-list.
No Mew Two, because why go backwards when you can go forwards.

Pretty much.

And yes, Kid Icarus was popular back in the day, but which side of the world supported it more? ...No seriously, who supported it more, that's a legitimate question.

Lol. This was hilarious. I don't know the answer, though.

 

[Morbi]

That's true, it is one of the 3DS' greatest gems and definitely worth a buy, but then again, you also have Sakurai's modesty to deal with, even if he himself didn't create Palutena, he was the one who created this interpretation of her.



Interesting. If this is the case, maybe Palutena's chances are a little higher than I thought...

So the popularity of a character... 10-15 years ago is more important than the present? Only on Smashboards.

1. Sakurai is the creative director of Smash.
2. Sakurai is the head of Sora Ltd.
3. Sora Ltd. revived the character Pit through Brawl.
4. Sora Ltd. revived the franchise Kid Icarus.
5. Pit was the front-runner in Brawl AND Smash 4... ahead of YOSHI

The "side of the globe" that supported Kid Icarus back in the day is irrelevant, it is irrelevant now. It seems very overt to me.

 

[Louie G.]

Thanks for posting that info everybody.
I definitely agree with Little Mac. He was a very close runner-up for me.
I disagree with most everything else, though. As an accurate prediction, for clarification.
Starfy seems plausible, but he's sort of small and awkward. A definite possibility though.
Ridley also seems plausible, certainly, but the difference between him and everyone else is that he's a monster.
All of the other characters are humanoid. Even R.O.B. has some sort of intelligence.
It's difficult to identify with a character that lacks human characteristics.
Golden Sun should be represented. But I think that there are already enough sword wielders in the game.
We've got Marth, maybe Ike. Or another FE character in his stead. And Link and Toon, and Kid Icarus and Meta Knight.
Similarly, Takamaru is yet another sword wielder. My main arguments for their exclusion is that variety is key.
If I were designing Smash, I would seek variety. It's just more interesting.
Palutena is already in the game as Pit's final smash. As horrible of an argument as that sounds.
Personally, I'd find it more likely to have a villain from Uprising. Such as Phosphora or Virirdi. They were on my short-list.
No Mew Two, because why go backwards when you can go forwards.

Pretty much.

Well, it's an improvement, but Mewtwo and Palutena should probably be on there.
And you didn't mention DK. K. Rool, Dixie, or both are very plausible.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Golden Sun should be represented. But I think that there are already enough sword wielders in the game.
We've got Marth, maybe Ike. Or another FE character in his stead. And Link and Toon, and Kid Icarus and Meta Knight.
Similarly, Takamaru is yet another sword wielder. My main arguments for their exclusion is that variety is key.
If I were designing Smash, I would seek variety. It's just more interesting.
Palutena is already in the game as Pit's final smash. As horrible of an argument as that sounds.


Pretty much.

Sigh ok, most characters punch and kick in fighting games and most don't have much swordusers (it's not the characters fault if he's the main protagonist and wields a sword, a sword can be unique.) sword users aren't bland in the slightest, they have different sword styles, hitboxes, etc. I could go on but I already been arguing this on the PM threads.

Anyway, pit's FS can easily be changed just as his moveset has been changed.

 

[Gryffin]

Well, it's an improvement, but Mewtwo and Palutena should probably be on there.
And you didn't mention DK. K. Rool, Dixie, or both are very plausible.

Oh yeah. I do agree with K Rool. Seems obvious, really, in retrospect.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

"Muh" is just "my" without the enunciation.

I wasn't referring to the actual word, but rather to the phrase "MUH (x)"

Is it from 4chan or some site like that?
I've never really been there, despite hearing about it a lot.

The only time I visited there often was in early October when X and Y info was being leaked on their /vp board.

-----

 

[Arcanir]

Thanks for posting that info everybody.
I definitely agree with Little Mac. He was a very close runner-up for me.
I disagree with most everything else, though. As an accurate prediction, for clarification.
Starfy seems plausible, but he's sort of small and awkward. A definite possibility though.
Ridley also seems plausible, certainly, but the difference between him and everyone else is that he's a monster.
All of the other characters are humanoid. Even R.O.B. has some sort of intelligence.
It's difficult to identify with a character that lacks human characteristics.
Golden Sun should be represented. But I think that there are already enough sword wielders in the game.
We've got Marth, maybe Ike. Or another FE character in his stead. And Link and Toon, and Kid Icarus and Meta Knight.
Similarly, Takamaru is yet another sword wielder. My main arguments for their exclusion is that variety is key.
If I were designing Smash, I would seek variety. It's just more interesting.
Palutena is already in the game as Pit's final smash. As horrible of an argument as that sounds.
Personally, I'd find it more likely to have a villain from Uprising. Such as Phosphora or Virirdi. They were on my short-list.
No Mew Two, because why go backwards when you can go forwards.

Pretty much.

-Ridley does show human characteristics in the manga and the games do show that he has intelligence due to his cunning in Other M, commission of the Ridley Robot and being a high ranking general of the Space Pirates.
-There are many different types of swordplay, and even ignoring that Issac can dip into his magic.
-On that note, Takamaru's style is different from the current characters in the game as katana style swordplay isn't done in the same way as fencing or broadsword.
-Then why make that argument? We've had characters change roles before (i.e. Charizard) and Pit has already had his moveset revamped so there's no reason to believe it can't happen for Palutena.
-Because Mewtwo is a very popular character that's very well liked and requested and still has importance to his series.

 

[Morbi]

I wasn't referring to the actual word, but rather to the phrase "MUH (x)"

Is it from 4chan or some site like that?
I've never really been there, despite hearing about it a lot.

The only time I visited there often was in early October when X and Y info was being leaked on their /vp board.

-----

I am honestly not entirely sure. It just seems like an ironic interpretation of any given argument or perhaps a way to mock said argument in a humorous way. I didn't know that there was a history behind it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

"Muh" is simply used to make the subject in question seem a lot more stupid and sometimes implying a forced prospective.

Like, "my book" "my ice cream" "my cat" vs. "muh book" "muh ice cream" "muh cat".

It's like people saying "hurr durr", "lel", or "XD" in order to convey stupidity.

 

[FinalStarmen]

Fighters who mainly use swordplay to their advantage:
- Link
- Young Link (previously cut)
- Toon Link
- Marth
- Roy (previously cut)
- Ike
- Meta Knight
- Pit (technically)
That is 6-8 in total.

Fighters who mainly brawl with their fists and kicks:
- Mario
- Luigi
- Bowser
- Yoshi
- Donkey Kong
- Wario
- Captain Falcon
- Ganondorf
- Lucario
- Jigglypuff
- Sonic the Hedgehog
That is 11 in total.*
* Off the top of my head, there may be more. Correct me if this is the case.


The whole notion that there are "too many swordsmen" is ridiculous, especially when brawlers outrank them. As long as their fighting styles are differentiated, there shouldn't be any sort of issue with diversity. Marth certainly doesn't play like Ike, and Mario certainly doesn't play like Bowser.

 

[Chandeelure]

The problem is not "too many swords" ,it is too many hammers! ,Dedede,Kirby,Ice Climbers and Mr.Game & Watch

 

[FlareHabanero]

Maybe people are conveying distaste of swordsmen because of the designs being subjectively repetitive?

 

[BKupa666]

Way back in the day, I used to be on the anti-swordsman bandwagon, which, in retrospect, was largely due to me finding most potential newcomers in the archetype generic. Reflecting now, I think that, if more variety were offered up among the likely Fire Emblem contenders, or if the superficially-similar Shulk/Isaac/Saki trio didn't all fit into a similar archetype (and if people weren't consistently adding all three to their rosters before Sakurai's "smaller roster" quote became a widely misinterpreted thing), the anti-swordsman bandwagon would be a much smaller phenomenon than it is.

 

[Morbi]

Fighters who mainly use swordplay to their advantage:
- Link
- Young Link (previously cut)
- Toon Link
- Marth
- Roy (previously cut)
- Ike
- Meta Knight
- Pit (technically)
That is 6-8 in total.

Fighters who mainly brawl with their fists and kicks:
- Mario
- Luigi
- Bowser
- Yoshi
- Donkey Kong
- Wario
- Captain Falcon
- Ganondorf
- Lucario
- Jigglypuff
- Sonic the Hedgehog
That is 11 in total.*
* Off the top of my head, there may be more. Correct me if this is the case.


The whole notion that there are "too many swordsmen" is ridiculous, especially when brawlers outrank them. As long as their fighting styles are differentiated, there shouldn't be any sort of issue with diversity. Marth certainly doesn't play like Ike, and Mario certainly doesn't play like Bowser.

People who advocate the "too many swords" argument should really stay away from Soul Calibur.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Good evening all, did I miss anything? (aside from the "muh" joke being old, which I agree with)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Your reason was arbitrary, I don't care what support you gave it, it is still arbitrary

Then you clearly do not know the definition of "arbitrary".

If you wish to elaborate, I did not read anything outside of your post.

That was my point, you're lack of effort to read is not my fault. I already said Palutena hasn't done much to make her very significant to Nintendo's history outside being the best choice for a second KI character and Wonder 101 has done nothing significant besides simply existing. There is nothing to gain from implementing Wonder Red as a playable.

You can replace whoever you want with whoever you want. It doesn't make their chances any more likely.

That's where you are wrong. When a character doesn't get in the way of another, it makes them more likely. Paper Mario is now more likely because Toad isn't in his way. By taking him out of the picture it makes his chances more likely.

That is another way to phrase "cuts". If he can't develop the character in time, they are cut. It is a different way of saying it.

So if Sakurai is talking about cuts and I leave out characters that were planned or appeared in previous Smash titles, then I do in fact have cuts on my roster. When Sakurai says "cuts" (which he didn't by the way) that means not having time to implement a character planned regardless of being a veteran from Melee, Brawl, or a newcomer. If I leave out Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link then I did in fact live up to his claim that QUOTE: "We don’t have the time to fully recreate every single character who’s been in Smash Bros at this point." Since those characters have in fact been in Smash up to this point.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Way back in the day, I used to be on the anti-swordsman bandwagon, which, in retrospect, was largely due to me finding most potential newcomers in the archetype generic. Reflecting now, I think that, if more variety were offered up among the likely Fire Emblem contenders, or if the superficially-similar Shulk/Isaac/Saki trio didn't all fit into a similar archetype (and if people weren't consistently adding all three to their rosters before Sakurai's "smaller roster" quote became a widely misinterpreted thing), the anti-swordsman bandwagon would be a much smaller phenomenon than it is.

In my opinion, it's not the weapon that influences the character, but more so the character influencing the weapon. Hence why I don't see a problem with too many swords or too many hammers, because ultimately the character in question influences the direction. Like, there is a pretty big difference between King Dedede and Ice Climbers despite both wielding a mallet, and similarly there is a big difference between how Marth and Ike play out despite both having swords. Because of this mentality, I have no qualms for the likes of Shulk or Takamaru, but show a lot of hostility for Chrom and Lucina.

 

[3Bismyname]

oh god the "To Many Swords" argument. considering that Brawl only had 5, 6 if u include Pit though I wouldnt, out of 39 characters using swords. most of which, with the exception of the 2 Links of course, were all very unique in their own rights. its not as if we were ever had an overabundance of swordsmen. I find fists way more boring and there are more of them hands down.

 

[Morbi]

Then you clearly do not know the definition of "arbitrary".


That was my point, you're lack of effort to read is not my fault. I already said Palutena hasn't done much to make her very significant to Nintendo's history outside being the best choice for a second KI character and Wonder 101 has done nothing significant besides simply existing. There is nothing to gain from implementing Wonder Red as a playable.



That's where you are wrong. When a character doesn't get in the way of another, it makes them more likely. Paper Mario is now more likely because Toad isn't in his way. By taking him out of the picture it makes his chances more likely.


So if Sakurai is talking about cuts and I leave out characters that were planned or appeared in previous Smash titles, then I do in fact have cuts on my roster. When Sakurai says "cuts" (which he didn't by the way) that means not having time to implement a character planned regardless of being a veteran from Melee, Brawl, or a newcomer. If I leave out Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link then I did in fact live up to his claim that QUOTE: "We don’t have the time to fully recreate every single character who’s been in Smash Bros at this point." Since those characters have in fact been in Smash up to this point.

It is quite annoying, it isn't my obligation to search for your post regarding Wonder Red. The reason you gave in the post that I actually read was arbitrary.

Apparently you did give a reason in your post... an arbitrary one. It is you that needs to look up the definition my friend. I didn't realize that your cluster answer was your alleged reasoning (which is fallacious). So your evidence is that "there is nothing to gain" which isn't true by the way. Thank you for that revelation.

Toad isn't out of the picture, his chances were severely attenuated. However, Toads inclusion does not have a correlation with the inclusion of Paper Mario. It just eliminates one from speculation. That has nothing to do with the characters chances. There is a difference.

Fine, characters of the roster might not be recreated in Smash 4.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Good evening all, did I miss anything? (aside from the "muh" joke being old, which I agree with)

Just this once, I want to request that someone besides me answer this question without complaining about the conversation prior to the question. Hopefully I'm not too late.

 

[NickerBocker]

So if Sakurai is talking about cuts and I leave out characters that were planned or appeared in previous Smash titles, then I do in fact have cuts on my roster. When Sakurai says "cuts" (which he didn't by the way) that means not having time to implement a character planned regardless of being a veteran from Melee, Brawl, or a newcomer. If I leave out Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link then I did in fact live up to his claim that QUOTE: "We don’t have the time to fully recreate every single character who’s been in Smash Bros at this point." Since those characters have in fact been in Smash up to this point.

Im pretty sure "cuts" is an idiom or slang, and doesnt transfer to other languages. The quotes that come from Sakurai have a good chance of being mistranslated in some way, due to us not being graced with the same language abilities. This is something everyone should realize.

Of course, I dont speak Japanese, but I am aware that translations sometimes dont do justice to the original message.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Apparently you did give a reason in your post... an arbitrary one. It is you that needs to look up the definition my friend.

You literally said that even though I supported my claim that it was arbitrary. Arbitrary means based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. I gave you factual evidence and reasons. That is anything, but arbitrary.

Toad isn't out of the picture, his chances were severely attenuated. However, Toads inclusion does not have a correlation with the inclusion of Paper Mario. It just eliminates one from speculation. That has nothing to do with the characters chances. There is a difference.

You're completley disregarding my point. If Toad was deconfirmed officially it does in fact increase other character's chances

 

[Knight Dude]

Thanks for posting that info everybody.
I definitely agree with Little Mac. He was a very close runner-up for me.
I disagree with most everything else, though. As an accurate prediction, for clarification.
Starfy seems plausible, but he's sort of small and awkward. A definite possibility though.
Ridley also seems plausible, certainly, but the difference between him and everyone else is that he's a monster.
All of the other characters are humanoid. Even R.O.B. has some sort of intelligence.
It's difficult to identify with a character that lacks human characteristics.
Golden Sun should be represented. But I think that there are already enough sword wielders in the game.
We've got Marth, maybe Ike. Or another FE character in his stead. And Link and Toon, and Kid Icarus and Meta Knight.
Similarly, Takamaru is yet another sword wielder. My main arguments for their exclusion is that variety is key.
If I were designing Smash, I would seek variety. It's just more interesting.
Palutena is already in the game as Pit's final smash. As horrible of an argument as that sounds.
Personally, I'd find it more likely to have a villain from Uprising. Such as Phosphora or Virirdi. They were on my short-list.
No Mew Two, because why go backwards when you can go forwards.

Pretty much.

Well, he fights like a monster that's for sure. Hell, that's one of the reasons I want to play as Ridley. But I remember hearing that he's supposed to be very intelligent actually. Hence why he leads the space pirates.

What Isaac has going for him outside of swordsmanship is magic. Robin from Fire Emblem as well can use magic to mix in with swordsmanship. I'm mostly pulling for Isaac to be added, since I like his character more. And his magic is mostly earth-based, so that's a plus, no one in Smash else has earth-powers. But on top of this he can use water, fire, and wind based magic as well.

Pit's Final Smash could be changed at some point. In fact, we haven't seen his Final Smash in this game yet.

He was going to be in Brawl, so he might still be in the devs minds. And he's the most popular legendary pokemon. Most people agree it sucks he was cut since he was a unique character, even if he was low tier, no one else played like him.

Also, Hades > Medusa > every other bad guy in Kid Icarus Uprising

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The quotes that come from Sakurai have a good chance of being mistranslated in some way

I might as well use that as an excuse to claim that Sakurai said Starfy was the most feasible fighter ever and that Sakurai specifically told us to expect Sukapon, but that we just mistranslated it. Sukapon confirmed due to mistranslation.

I don't know how you mistranslate "We don't have time to bring back every character that's been in Smash at this point." into "We're cutting characters."

 

[Morbi]

You literally said that even though I supported my claim that it was arbitrary. Arbitrary means based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. I gave you factual evidence and reasons. That is anything, but arbitrary.






You're completley disregarding my point. If Toad was deconfirmed officially it does in fact increase other character's chances

Allow me to rephrase... your support was arbitrary. Your reasoning was fallacious. What factual evidence did you give me? Nothing aside from your own personal opinion.

No it doesn't. I have no idea where you got this notion. A characters chances are not dependent on the characters not in the game. There is no correlation whatsoever.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Allow me to rephrase... your support was arbitrary. Your reasoning was fallacious. What factual evidence did you give me? Nothing aside from your own personal opinion.

So King K. Rool doing more significant things in Nintendo History or having more appearances than Palutena is personal opinion? Even if her level of significance being lower than some characters is opinion, your need to say otherwise will be just as pointless as saying Starfy has had more significance than Pikmin.

No it doesn't. I have no idea where you got this notion. A characters chances are not dependent on the characters not in the game. There is no correlation whatsoever.

Character priority has no correlation whatsoever!? You're telling me that Toon Link's appearance didn't shoot down Young Link's chances entirely? Or that the inclusion of Brawl's characters didn't push Dr. Mario's priority downwards thus lowering his chances!?

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't have a problem with too many sword users.
I DO have a problem with sword users whose movesets consist of nothing but sword slashing. (One or two are ok, but more than that, it gets redundant).

At least brawlers mix them up with cool specials (fireballs, homing attacks, egg throw, farts, you name it).
But if the sword users are going to have specials that ALSO involve using the sowrd, THEN it gets boring.

Takamaru is the finest choice for a swordsman because his main attacks would be sword based, but his specials have great variety, like flaming shuriken, throwing kunais, invisibility, etc.

If a sword user brings something OTHER than just another sword, then bring it!


EDIT: I am aware that being one of the biggest Little Mac supporters out here I may sound a bit of a hypocrite, but LM would be to my knowledge, the only character who would conist of nothing but fist fighting. That alone would make him unique. :D

 

[Knight Dude]

Good evening all, did I miss anything? (aside from the "muh" joke being old, which I agree with)

Nothing crazy. Just talking about sword wielding characters in general. Some think that what we had in Brawl was too much. But I disagree, most seem to share this sentiment as well. What do you think? Too many sword guys in Brawl?

I wouldn't mind another swordsman, so long as they are interesting. But I would prefer to see another kind of weapon user aside from swords and hammers, just for that extra bit of personality. Maybe an Axe wielder and a character with a staff or spear.

 

[NickerBocker]

I might as well use that as an excuse to claim that Sakurai said Starfy was the most feasible fighter ever and that Sakurai specifically told us to expect Sukapon, but that we just mistranslated it. Sukapon confirmed due to mistranslation.

I don't know how you mistranslate "We don't have time to bring back every character that's been in Smash at this point." into "We're cutting characters."

Not what I said at all. Theres an extreme amount of middle ground between those things, something you forget about pretty often it seems.

As an example:
"Lets eat grandma" and "Lets eat, grandma" have very different meanings. You dont think this happens in other languages, let alone for other languages to understand the difference?

Yes there are some very clear perfect translations, like the Sukapon one, but youre losing sight of what is right in front of you. Youre twisting the words into something you want to hear. You think it means "they wont bring back characters like Pichu, dr mario, etc." When really Sakurai is most likely warning us that cuts are a very likely possibility.

 

[Morbi]

@Saturn
Character priority is irrelevant. Toon Link's appearance didn't have a correlation with Young Link's chances as Sakurai included Toon Link. That is objective fact. Young Link never had a chance as Sakurai already selected Toon Link over Young Link. His chances were attenuated under the speculation lens. It had no bearing on his inclusion. I am insinuating that if Sakurai chose a Mario character, it doesn't matter who is de-confirmed, that Mario character has a stagnant chance. However, you are obviously using a straw-man fallacy and turning this into a priority list argument. Something that I have never disputed. Toad's inclusion has no bearing on any Mario representative regardless of whether or not he is de-confirmed as Sakurai has already ordered the priority list in a certain way.

So I misunderstood your Wonder Red thing, your reasoning is that there are more important Nintendo characters. That is fine. In your original post, you said that he had no (0) chance and you followed up with "there is nothing to gain from implementing...", that was the portion I was focusing on.

Edit- What are you on about with this "no cuts" business Saturn. You were referring to the article and alluding to cuts prior to... well today. What all of a sudden changed?

 

[NickerBocker]

Double post