Rosalina can no longer attack whilst being grabbed.

[Reila]

That's fair; it just annoys me that so many people consider For Glory competitive and then bring it to balance discussions (including Sakurai! -- this one has me nervous about future balance patches).

Regardless of your opinion of FG being competitive or not, it still is a major feature of the game and there is nothing wrong with balancing the characters with a feature of the game in mind. It is more reasonable than balancing it with (specially western) local tournaments in mind.

ironically, that same trailer prominently displayed luma respawning and saving rosalina from getting grabbed. I really hate to see a character's design become less faithful for balance.

First metaknight has a sword with no range and now rosaluma's puppetry is being nerfed.

Rosalina & Luma are still faithful to the source material, though. I don't see the problem with changing slightly a character's "design" in Smash for balancing purposes.

 

[Johnknight1]

You know, it's not really the fault of Sakurai. He can't go see stuff like tournaments to try and balance the game

Sakurai and the rest of the development team can after the game comes out and in demo builds of the game. He can also use previous smash game builds to see what people exploit and go after in order to win, and to organize what's interesting ("combos" that actually strings based on lots of reads), what isn't interesting (camping and stalling), and everything in between.

 

[ChikoLad]

Again, you can personally attack me if you wish, but what about the people working for Nintendo -- who, y'know, decided to go ahead with the nerf? Surely you don't think they all "must not be that good" because they decided to nerf her?

By the way, keep in mind that Nintendo has access to much more data than us. If they decided to remove one of her initially advertised features (the subject of this thread), then the situation must be pretty critical in their eyes




I'm discussing the nerf just like everyone else in the thread. The only difference is that I 100% agree with it.

That wasn't a personal attack, that was a logical deduction. There is so much evidence to go against her being OP, so you thinking so based off of personal experience may denote that either you aren't that good, or maybe even she is just your best character out of everyone, if she is an "easy win" for you.

No you don't. You get camping, stalling, and slow matches that involve minimal smash IQ or intelligence.

It is very dumbed down in a lot of the same ways Brawl was dumbed down from Melee and Smash 64.

That's down to what Rosalina players you've been playing then. Rosalina can literally play any kind of game she wants in a lot of cases, including the things you have mentioned (many players actually keep Luma by her side, so I don't see how you can camp from that).

 

[Warlock*G]

All I can say is that boy have things changed since the Brawl days. Back then, there were no patches at all.

And the Smash64 days...and the Melee days...

 

[Luggy]

No you don't. You get camping, stalling, and slow matches that involve minimal smash IQ or intelligence.

It is very dumbed down in a lot of the same ways Brawl was dumbed down from Melee and Smash 64.

Could you please don't bring in Brawl, Melee or the N64 version in this thread, we are talking about Smash 4.
Thank you, I don't want to see fights about this.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Not surprised whatsoever.

I also hear her aerial hitboxes are nerfed.

I'm glad for the Luma respawn nerfs and this nerf when being grabbed -- I fully expect her to be nerfed even more in the future.

The respawn timer being nerfed allows slower characters to actually catch up to Rosalina before the Luma respawn. Luma not being able to attack while Rosalina is being grabbed gives everyone grab options back.

She is not broken anymore. Everyone should be viable against her now.

If there are anymore nerf, I fully expect them only to be things like "F-smash and U-smash kill later now."

However, nerfing her aerials is bad. I know, you heard this a million times, but she is a lightweight and floaty. In this very instance it actually matters because without good aerials, she's not only dead by jugglers, but also has barely any offensive presence left.

She would have to resort to EVEN MORE camping, which is bad for everyone.

 

[Johnknight1]

Regardless of your opinion of FG being competitive or not, it still is a major feature of the game and there is nothing wrong with balancing the characters with a feature of the game in mind. It is more reasonable than balancing it with (specially western) local tournaments in mind.

...you have got to be kidding me.

For Glory is not competitive at all. For starters it has lag and input delay, it is only on one stage that is probably going to wind up being a counter-pick stage (like how it is in PM), and the game doesn't segregate the best players from the worst like ACTUAL TOURNAMENTS DO!

There is no first place prize on For Glory, only points. Tournaments tell you results of which characters win, how they win, why they who, who wins with them, etc., all with more stages, more players, a higher skill level, no lag, and actual stage lists.

For Glory DOES NOT DO THAT!

 

[Clemente]

I highly doubt that the nerf was conducted solely based on For Glory data. You're silly if you think the guys at Nintendo totally suck, have no concept of good balancing, fighting games, etc. especially with the Namco Bandai guys, and if you think they don't have access to input from competitive players.

Having said that, if their data is showing that Rosalina's win rate across the board, globally is ridiculously high (and I have a feeling that there is a huge gap between Rosalina's win rate and any other character) then that is cause for alarm.

Because a player with no knowledge of Smash Bros. and zero experience can currently pick up Rosalina and decimate in For Glory mode, I personally do think that's problematic for the community

...you have got to be kidding me.

For Glory is not competitive at all. For starters it has lag and input delay, it is only on one stage that is probably going to wind up being a counter-pick stage (like how it is in PM), and the game doesn't segregate the best players from the worst like ACTUAL TOURNAMENTS DO!

There is no first place prize on For Glory, only points. Tournaments tell you results of which characters win, how they win, why they who, who wins with them, etc., all with more stages, more players, a higher skill level, no lag, and actual stage lists.

For Glory DOES NOT DO THAT!

I think he's just saying that even if it's not competitive, it's a feature people use and it shouldn't be ignored either.

 

[ChikoLad]

...you have got to be kidding me.

For Glory is not competitive at all. For starters it has lag and input delay, it is only on one stage that is probably going to wind up being a counter-pick stage (like how it is in PM), and the game doesn't segregate the best players from the worst like ACTUAL TOURNAMENTS DO!

There is no first place prize on For Glory, only points. Tournaments tell you results of which characters win, how they win, why they who, who wins with them, etc., all with more stages, more players, a higher skill level, no lag, and actual stage lists.

For Glory DOES NOT DO THAT!

You completely misread Reila's post. They didn't say "FG is competitive". They said "FG is a part of the game so it is fair to use it as influence for how the game is designed to at least some extent". And they are right. Basic game design logic.

Rosalina & Luma are still faithful to the source material, though. I don't see the problem with changing slightly a character's "design" in Smash for balancing purposes.

False. The Palutena's Guidance for Rosalina has Palutena state "Lumas will sacrifice everything for Rosalina", after Pit and Viridi assume Rosalina tells them what to do.

 

[Johnknight1]

Could you please don't bring in Brawl, Melee or the N64 version in this thread, we are talking about Smash 4.
Thank you, I don't want to see fights about this.

My comment clearly had nothing to do with that. It was about how specific aspects, with those aspects namely spamming moves with way too high priority, stalling, and camping. Those aspects are far more prevalent in Brawl than in 64 or Melee (although 64 in particular can have some pretty campy and spam-happy moves; Superboom vs. Isai at APEX 2012 comes to mind).

I think after Brawl it's safe to say only a few people want a game with that much camping or stalling in a Smash game, specifically in high level play. This game was designed with the intent of removing a lot of that.

That's down to what Rosalina players you've been playing then. Rosalina can literally play any kind of game she wants in a lot of cases, including the things you have mentioned (many players actually keep Luma by her side, so I don't see how you can camp from that).

No they don't. If they play to win, they do it primarily by camping and stalling behind Luma, forcing you to have linear approach, and thus you have to enter into a counter/projectile war if you really play to win.

It's not deep and quite frankly it's just flat out boring.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The respawn timer being nerfed allows slower characters to actually catch up to Rosalina before the Luma respawn. Luma not being able to attack while Rosalina is being grabbed gives everyone grab options back.

She is not broken anymore. Everyone should be viable against her now.

If there are anymore nerf, I fully expect them only to be things like "F-smash and U-smash kill later now."

However, nerfing her aerials is bad. I know, you heard this a million times, but she is a lightweight and floaty. In this very instance it actually matters because without good aerials, she's not only dead by jugglers, but also has barely any offensive presence left.

She would have to resort to EVEN MORE camping, which is bad for everyone.

Worst case scenario: Rosalina ends up becoming the worst fighter, while the likes of Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and Greninja are laughing their way up to the top tier rankings.

The ironic part is that even before the patch was announced, Rosalina was never broken to begin with.

 

[many37]

Ok cool

Rosalina is less broken now

 

[Clemente]

Rosalina was never broken to begin with.

I disagree -- and frankly from what I've been reading recently, 99% of pro players think she's broken as well, as does Nintendo.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I disagree -- and frankly from what I've been reading recently, 99% of pro players think she's broken as well, as does Nintendo.

They obviously can't take advantage of her weaknesses very well then.

 

[Luggy]

Okay, this thread is officially becoming the "Rosaluma is OP V.S Rosaluma aren't broken" .
Seriously, this is getting ridiculous, can't we just talk about how it can change the game instead of saying "Rosalina has been nerfed. Great, now time to argue with Rosalina mains." ?

I keep seeing people saying this all day, with the same answers and the same fights. It's endless and useless. I want peace in this thread, not fools who keeps fighting for nothing. What's even your reward for doing this, dammit.

You all have different opinions ? Fine. But don't come here and start fights just to prove that your opinion is right.

Anyway, how will this affect the Rosaluma players ? Will it change a lot of things for her or is it just a little nerf and nothing else ?

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Okay, this thread is officially becoming the "Rosaluma is OP V.S Rosaluma aren't broken" .
Seriously, this is getting ridiculous, can't we just talk about how it can change the game instead of saying "Rosalina has been nerfed. Great, now time to argue with Rosalina mains." ?

I keep seeing people saying this all day, with the same answers and the same fights. It's endless and useless. I want peace in this thread, not fools who keeps fighting for nothing. What's even your reward for doing this, dammit.

You all have different opinions ? Fine. But don't come here and start fights just to prove that your opinion is right.

Anyway, how will this affect the Rosaluma players ? Will it change a lot of things for her or is it just a little nerf and nothing else ?

Rosalina players will no longer be able to just charge in to an opponent. The will have to play a little more defensively now.

It won't change much for me as I could never get Luma to hit my opponents when I was grabbed.

 

[Clemente]

Topic moved

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Okay everyone, I've created a new thread that we can use to show our impressions on the patch changes. Please use the following link to continue such topics, and to honor the wishes of @ Luggy , give this thread some breathing room.

http://smashboards.com/threads/377860/

 

[Clemente]

Okay everyone, I've created a new thread that we can use to show our impressions on the patch changes. Please use the following link to continue such topics, and to honor the wishes of @ Luggy , give this thread some breathing room.

http://smashboards.com/threads/377860/

Can you lock this + the topic about the respawn timer then, if we're combining the discussions?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Can you lock this + the topic about the respawn timer then, if we're combining the discussions?

If you say so.