Data Rosalina AND Luma's Frame Data

[icraq]

Over at http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-hitbox-frame-data-for-every-character-round-2.383550/ they have posted a link to Dantarion's data dump of all the character's moves. I don't think we have info for ending lag on attacks yet, but we have data on when hitboxes end. Anyways this has been around for a while, but they have gone through and recently labeled all the moves which makes it a little easier to read, so I thought I'd go through some things and share my impressions on each move. Luma's attacks were just known as unknown subtates, I went ahead and figured out which each one was, which is also in that link I posted, which is here: http://smashboards.com/threads/comp...character-round-2.383550/page-2#post-18234076 (credits to @ Lavani for also doing all the same work as me a day before, I just failed to read their post! oops!)

IMPORTANT: The dumped data in game lists Luma's frames 1 frame sooner than they actually are in game. Example: Jab 1 is listed in here as frame 3-4, it's actually 4-5, that's because there's a 1 frame input delay after you attack with Luma.

JABS

Spoiler

ROSALINA

Spoiler

Jab1
Frame 8-10: 2% 100f/40w 70° Magic
Frame 8-10: 2% 100f/30w 82° Magic
Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 16

Jab2
Frame 6- 8: 1% 100f/40w 74° 1.5-Hitlag Magic
Frame 6- 8: 1% 100f/30w 82° 1.5-Hitlag Magic
Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 17

Jab3
Frame 9-11: 3% 48b/240g 74° 1.5-Hitlag Magic
Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 23

Repeating Jab End
Frame 9-11: 3% 60b/510g 361° 2.0-Hitlag Magic

LUMA

Spoiler

jab 1
Frame 3- 4: 2% 100f/50w 70° 1.5-Hitlag

jab 2
Frame 5- 6: 2% 100f/50w 90° 1.5-Hitlag

jab 3 upper cut
Frame 8-12: 4% 60b/600g 80° 1.5-Hitlag

jab 3 spin
Frame 0- 1: 1.2% 15b/120g 50°

jab 3 spin punch
Frame 6-10: 3% 60b/390g 80° 2.0-Hitlag

IMPRESSIONS!

Spoiler

Solo Rosalina I think has a terrible starting time on jabs in comparison to the rest of the cast. It takes 8 frames to start up? Is her little wand really that heavy? I think there's a bit of a disjoint on it, but even then it's going to get out-prioritized against any strong attack and if you ever get into a jab clash with someone and try to outspam jab, they WILL win.

However... LUMA! Luma's starting frame for jab is frame 3, and while it's a bit of a shorter lived hitbox it adds significant range to Rosalina's jab which makes it just amazing! Rosalina will easily hit her opponent after Luma's Jab 1 connects and be able to continue the combo.

Solo Rosalina should prefer using the spin finisher, but if you have Luma use the jab 3 uppercut. Look at how much higher the base and growth knockback are! It's labeled Repeating Jab End, and it's over double the knockback of her normal jab finisher. SO, MASH A as fast as you can with Solo Rosa to get the spin finisher, and time your jabs out properly to get the uppercut finisher with Luma! The exception is fast fallers which you can combo in the spin attack for easy 0-30% combos!

AERIALS

Spoiler

ROSALINA

Spoiler

Nair
Frame 9-34: 5% 30b/540g 361° Magic
Frame 35-46: 7.5% 25b/810g 361° Magic
Enables transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 3
Cancels transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 60

Fair
Frame 12-26: [1%]x3 55b/100g 30° 0.5-SDI Magic
Frame 12-26: [1%]x3 55b/100g 366° 0.5-SDI Magic
Frame 28-29: 4% 50b/552g 361° Magic
Enables transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 8
Cancels transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 69

Bair
Frame 9-11: 11% 38b/715g 30° Magic
Enables transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 5
Cancels transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 46

Uair
Frame 8-10: 10% 40b/980g 88° Magic
Frame 11-21: 5% 40b/490g 88° 1.2-Hitlag Magic
Frame 22-29: 2% 20b/60g 88° 1.4-Hitlag Magic
Enables transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 2
Cancels transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 42

Dair
Frame 18-18: 8% 40b/640g 361° Magic
Frame 19-23: 7% 20b/469g 270° Magic
Frame 24-26: 6% 35b/600g 45° Magic
Frame 27-33: 2% 20b/60g 361° Magic
Enables transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 4
Cancels transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 51

LUMA

Spoiler

nair
Frame 2- 5: 4% 40b/680g 361° 1.7-Hitlag
Frame 25-28: 3% 40b/510g 361° 1.7-Hitlag

dair
Frame 10-13: 5% 60b/650g 80° 0.3-Hitlag

uair
Frame 2- 9: 4% 110b/240g 92° 0.5-Hitlag
Frame 2- 9: 4% 110b/240g 108° 0.5-Hitlag

bair
Frame 9-14: 4% 30b/600g 28° 1.5-Hitlag

fair
Frame 7-11: 5% 90b/550g 45° 1.5-Hitlag

IMPRESSIONS!

Spoiler

Not much to be said about Rosalina's nair that we don't already know, except I did learn some interesting information! The term "Enables transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 3" means that's the amount of frames we have to autocancel Nair before landing. So you'd want to press the A button within 1-3 frames before touching the ground to get a perfect lagless autocanceled Luma nair, meaning nair is one of the hardest to land. The actual hardest move to autocancel is uair, which begins at at frame 2! Our most forgiving is by far FAIR, which has an 8 frame landing window. Bair is 4 and dair is 5!

Rosalina's fair, well, all I see is that it's harder to smash DI out of for your opponents, which is great, and makes sense. It's kind of confusing, I don't fully understand the Sakurai Angle (which is listed as 361° here), but Fair apparently has 366°? I've never seen that before, so that just makes it even more confusing. But I'm certain this is related to how we're able to spike with it. Takes 69 frames to autocancel this move. Means it's a little more strict on autocanceling timing than nair, but not by much, only 9 frames. You can full hop nair/fair and fast fall at the apex of your jump and it should autocancel, you gotta see it to get a feeling for it though.

Rosalina's dair information really clears some things up for me. The initial starting hitbox at frame 18 never spikes, but it's actually the hitbox that lingers from frame 19-23 that does 7%. Frame 18 dair seems to have higher knockback but doesn't spike. I wish I understood the Sakurai Angle a bit better so I could analyze the angles a bit better.

Rosalina's uair has some interesting things. Holy crap that knockback growth at frames 8-10! And as we can see, frames 22-29 have a much higher hitstun! That's why late sourspot uair combos so great into sweet spot uair!

Now I'm gonna focus a bit more on Luma here..

First off, I really just want to talk about Luma's nair. Does anyone else see that? Yes, that is a frame 2 aerial! That means jumping out of shield and using nair is our #1 fastest punish out of shield. There might be faster options if we perfect shield.. but I think this is the #1 fastest punish we have. The only other move with as quick of start up time is Luma's bair, which is also frame 2. However, Luma does jab at frame 3, so that might be faster but I think there's still some lag on dropping perfect shields. However, dropping a normal shield and going into jab is way slower than jump canceling into nair. Nair also has a pretty strong base knockback, seems like it'd be good for off the edge, probably won't kill with it any time soon but it'd be good for gimping.

Luma's dair has great knockback which we all know and love. Comes out at frame 9 and only sticks around for 3 frames, pretty short lived, but the shortest lived stars shine brightest.

Luma's uair can kill off the top if your opponent is high enough which we already all know about. (Hurray for 30% kills!) It's designed to knock your opponents into Rosalina's uair, the angle is 28 degrees which is perfect for setting up into Rosalina. This doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, I figured it must have high base knockback but it's fairly mediocre in terms of knockback. *Oops, because I thought uair was bair! This is wrong.

Luma's bair.. comes out quick and lasts a good long time, a whole 7 frames. 110b/240g is kind of a weird combination. It has very high base knockback but 240g is very low growth knockback. So don't count on this getting any better at higher percents, except with rage. Also.. it has two hitboxes? Why? I have no idea, but apparently it does and one of them sends your opponent at a slightly different angle. Well, okay. *Yep I'm an idiot, surprised I didn't figure this out. So I thought bair was uair.. Makes sense now, uair has high base, low growth, which is why it can kill at low percents and with rage. Got it.

Luma's fair pops your opponent straight up, can kill off the top at high enough percents. Slow startup and doesn't last as long as bair, only 4 frames. However it has much better knockback overall in comparison to bair, but ends your opponents in a very different direction.

One last thought was, what is the best move to recall Luma with? The one with the longest lasting hitbox I'd guess, which in this case would be bair. Bair lasts 7 frames, though I guess nair might be better too, but I'm not certain.

TILTS

Spoiler

ROSALINA

Spoiler

F-tilt (normal)
Frame 7- 9: 6% 35b/540g 361°
Frame 7- 9: 5% 35b/450g 361°

U-tilt
Frame 9-17: 8% 80b/560g 88° 2.0-Hitlag Magic
Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4
End partial invincibility on real frame 12

D-tilt
Frame 5- 8: 4.5% 35b/441g 30° 1.4-Hitlag

LUMA

Spoiler

Ftilt
Frame 7-10: 4.3% 40b/537g 361° 1.5-Hitlag

Utilt
Frame 2- 2: 8% 120b/480g 88° 2.0-Hitlag Ground-Target-Only
Frame 3- 4: 4% 85b/240g 98° 0.5-Hitlag
Frame 3- 4: 4% 80b/240g 93° 0.5-Hitlag
Frame 5- 9: 3% 80b/180g 90° 0.5-Hitlag

Dtilt
Frame 7-12: 3.5% 35b/420g 30° 1.5-Hitlag

IMPRESSIONS!

Spoiler

As we can see, Rosalina's ftilt has two hitboxes. There's one really far back on her body which is pretty weak. I don't know if you'll ever hit with it, but it's there. Ftilt is Rosalina's longest range tilt, though it's hitbox only lasts 2 frames. I'd say knockback is negligible here, but again I don't know if the angle matters much with Sakurai Angle.

Rosalina's dtilt is quicker, starting at frame 5 and lasts til frame 8. Sends your opponent horizontal.

Utilt starts at frame 9 and lingers til frame 17 and has no sourspot. Slowest starting utilt Rosalina has, but longest lasting and most damaging. It has invincibility from frames 4-12, I tried testing it out and couldn't find out what exactly on Rosalina was invincible, I'm wondering if it's just her head, but I have NO idea. Looks like it should kill at some point, but I don't think anything crazy will happen with it...

However..

Holy crap! Luma's utilt comes out at FRAME 2. WHAT. OH AND BTW THIS MOVE CAN KILL AT 15%. It's
at 120b/480g which is just outrageous in comparison to all her other moves. It will always send your opponent up pretty high, even at 0%. Luma won't kill your opponent under normal circumstances with this move until around the 140% range, but if your rage bonus knockback is high enough and your opponent is charging a smash attack, this is the perfect counter. It's a ballsy move, but lets say your opponent is waiting to usmash you as you get up from the ledge and you're at 150%. You stand up, immediately hit utilt, Luma comes out on Frame 2 and sends your opponent flying, pretty much no matter what percent they're at. Yes, it's situational, of course, but this move can possibly save your life. Doesn't do much if your opponent is above you, or if the move connects late. It's an uppercut, you gotta hit them when they're grounded. Not only that, utilt is your longest lasting grounded Luma attack, so it would likely be the best move to use when recalling Luma, as it would cover more ground as it traveled.

Luma's dtilt comes out at frame 7 and lingers til frame 12, a bit longer and later than Rosalina's. Not much to say here.

Ftilt is pretty similar to dtilt's observations. Not much to say here.

SMASH ATTACKS

Spoiler

ROSALINA

Spoiler

F-smash (high)
Frame 16-18: 12% 30b/1332g 361° Magic
Smash charge window on real frame 10

F-smash (normal)
Frame 16-18: 12% 30b/1332g 361° 1.2-Hitlag Magic
Smash charge window on real frame 10

F-smash (low)
Frame 16-18: 12% 30b/1332g 361° 1.2-Hitlag Magic
Smash charge window on real frame 10

U-smash
Frame 8-16: 12% 45b/1080g 86°
Smash charge window on real frame 4
Begins partial invincibility on real frame 7
End partial invincibility on real frame 17

D-smash
Frame 6- 7: 7% 40b/714g 32° 0.3-Trip 1.5-Hitlag Magic
Frame 17-18: 9% 36b/945g 32° 0.3-Trip 1.5-Hitlag Magic
Smash charge window on real frame 4

LUMA

Spoiler

Fsmash
Frame 16-17: 7% 43b/1155g 361° 1.7-Hitlag
Frame 16-17: 5% 43b/825g 70° 1.7-Hitlag

Usmash
Frame 9-11: 6% 60b/852g 85° 1.5-Hitlag
Frame 12-16: 5% 60b/710g 85° 1.5-Hitlag

Dsmash
Frame 6- 7: 4% 40b/620g 33° 1.5-Hitlag
Frame 18-19: 5% 40b/775g 33° 1.5-Hitlag

IMPRESSIONS!

Spoiler

Not a lot to be said for each individual's moves so I'll just write what I think about them both together.

Fsmash! Love this move. Look at that growth! Both R&L start at frame 16. Luma's is a tiny bit shorter. We can angle Luma's Fsmash to hit opponents on the ledge which is pretty cool. It's a one frame move, and I believe with the recent popularization of ledge grab vulnerability that means we have to attack with Luma in the same single frame that the opponent grabs the ledge. It'll take some practice! You may notice Luma has a second hitbox on Fsmash, that's the body hitbox on Luma, if you hit with that it will ruin Rosalina's fsmash too and a lot of characters can survive much longer. So be careful to not fsmash too close!

Usmash! Well, awesome. I didn't know Rosalina had partial invincibility on any of her moves! So, Usmash and Utilt are Rosalina's only moves that have partial invincibility, I have no idea where it is on utilt but it's very clearly on Rosalina's head in Usmash. So it's very easy to challenge aerials if you space it right and don't get hit below Rosalina's body. She has invincibility all throughout the move's hitbox, a whole 10 frames! Comes out on frame 8 which is pretty quick, where as fsmash waits til frame 16 to start, but it certainly takes a while to recover. Does okay knockback! Luma has a sour spot, the very end of the usmash, so try not to hit with that!

Dsmash starts so quick! Dtilt comes out at frame 5, so dsmash only takes 1 additional frame to come out. It probably won't kill, but the back attack of dsmash which starts at frame 17 and ends on 18 is significantly better. Luma is synched up to mirror Rosalina when attached, so they both attack in opposite directions, covering both sides simultaneously. However, Luma's last hit on dsmash comes out just a little bit later, by one frame.

MISCELLANEOUS!

Spoiler

well, that pretty much wraps it up. Here's some other stuff.

Grab
Frame 6- 7: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 8

Dash Grab
Frame 8- 9: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 10

Pivot Grab
Frame 9-10: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 11

Dash Attack
Frame 6- 9: 3% 40b/150g 45° 1.2-Hitlag
Frame 17-19: 4% 70b/520g 65° 1.3-Hitlag
Luma's dash attack
Frame 5- 7: 3% 45b/150g 45° 1.5-Hitlag

So, not much to say about these. Dash grab starts about when Usmash would start, so you can weigh dash grabbing/dash usmashing, pivot grabs surprisingly have slower startup time. Dash attack is a pretty quick startup multihit, and it lasts forever. Luma's hits first and does so little knockback. I guess you can mix up dash attack and dash grab, though dash attack is more of a commitment and might or might not pay off as well as a grab. Dash attack maaaay beat a spot dodge if your opponent thinks you're going for a grab, and dash grab obviously beats shield.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Sadly though this data is incomplete, since it only gives data for he highest-damage hitboxes of an attack so for example it will only give you data on the last hitbox of Rosalina's NAir, or only one of the two hits of Luma's NAir

I'm currently working on a more complete sheet of hitbox data for Rosalina (among other characters) but this can definitely tide people over

 

[icraq]

Sadly though this data is incomplete, since it only gives data for he highest-damage hitboxes of an attack so for example it will only give you data on the last hitbox of Rosalina's NAir, or only one of the two hits of Luma's NAir

I'm currently working on a more complete sheet of hitbox data for Rosalina (among other characters) but this can definitely tide people over

Actually it gives all damages for multihit attacks, such as Luma's nair! And I'm continuing to update, so please check back later!

 

[mario123007]

Somehow I just think that they narrow most of her frams of attacks, and nerf a couple of her air attacks, her neutual air is quite weak already, now I can even hit opponent well with it, they buff up her up smash range is pretty neat, but back then I mostly ko opponent with air attacks, now since her air attacks has nerfed a bit, so try to take them down it going to be tricky.
No, actually I am still not completely a Rosalina main since I seldom use her these days, I am hoping to get New 3DS and Wii U in order to show my true power.

 

[DanGR]

@ icraq After reading the OP, I think you're mistaken on what hitlag is. It's the freeze that happens when you connect a move with a hurtbox. More info found here: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Lag

edit: Also, for anyone interested I made an google excel spreadsheet listing all of the data viewable at this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q75HZookwyqWAWE_UsgPtvRIoiYXTAK2T9n2VkBM5do/edit?usp=sharing

 

[icraq]

@ icraq After reading the OP, I think you're mistaken on what hitlag is. It's the freeze that happens when you connect a move with a hurtbox. More info found here: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Lag

edit: Also, for anyone interested I made an google excel spreadsheet listing all of the data viewable at this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q75HZookwyqWAWE_UsgPtvRIoiYXTAK2T9n2VkBM5do/edit?usp=sharing

I slightly suspected this! Thank you for correcting me, I'll make the changes where I talked about it. So wait, is there no actual information for hitstun then?

I think I removed all the mentions of hitlag as hitstun. However, why does luma's dair only have 0.3 hitlag? wtf is up with that?

 

[DanGR]

We don't know what the hitstun multiplier is for Sm4sh afaik. However, generally it's a function of knockback, so the more knockback a move has, the more hitstun it'll have.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Edit: im dumb

Anyway I guess either I misunderstood what thinkaman said about only accounting for highest damage hitboxes, or its been changed since his last release. The last time, things like Villagers UTilt, which hits twice, only had the strongest hit's data. Also, only the data for DTilts sweetspot was recorded. Let me take another good look at this...

 

[Thinkaman]

Yeah, it has everything not sealed away in subexpressions (like repeating jabs or fox shine) now.

Anyway, the reason I'm here is that there's clearly a bug with the data for Rosalina's dair. There's no way that move hits on frame 18. If you guys could find out the frame it actually hits on, that would go a long way in helping me understand exactly what is wrong.

 

[Smasher89]

Nice, finally some raw data to study more then just landlag from aerials-

So the lumadashattack (f5) to dashgrab(f8) leaves a very tiny window for action, but concidering the possible hitstun that might be aöö from 3 to 1 frames.

 

[Lavani]

Yeah, it has everything not sealed away in subexpressions (like repeating jabs or fox shine) now.

Anyway, the reason I'm here is that there's clearly a bug with the data for Rosalina's dair. There's no way that move hits on frame 18. If you guys could find out the frame it actually hits on, that would go a long way in helping me understand exactly what is wrong.

It hits on frame 18. And yes, that first frame before she crouches is part of the attack animation, I spent a good while trying to verify it. 17, haa. Retroactively editing over five months later because I placed too much faith in the data dump.

 

[Baskerville]

Big thanks for all of this! I'm actually surprised Rosalina even had invincibility on her U-Smash.

 

[Parcheesy]

Big thanks for all of this! I'm actually surprised Rosalina even had invincibility on her U-Smash.

Yeah. Now I know why I saw a Rosalina player constantly challenging Diddy's monkey flip with up smashes. Definitely going to be something I work into my neutral game.

 

[Dabuz]

This is awesome! going to be studying a lot of what's posted here :D

Edit: Can someone explain what the letters next to numbers under knockback mean.

 

[Lavani]

This is awesome! going to be studying a lot of what's posted here :D

Edit: Can someone explain what the letters next to numbers under knockback mean.

b/g = base knockback / (knockback growth*damage)
f/w = fixed knockback / weight-based knockback

 

[icraq]

so i'm just looking at rosalina's fair and i am curious what people think of the 366 degree angle. i think it has some sort of tracking property, like, it constantly moves the person caught in the first 3 hitboxes of fair in the direction rosalina is moving.. the 30 degree alternative hitbox i think is for low knockback. her fair doesn't have it's semi-spike property until like, 35% on ganon, and it seems that it needs to be fast falled or at least connect with one of the first three hitboxes as she's falling to the ground.. if the last hit of fair connects it negates all possible spiking properties, and if you hit with the fair and di back it seems to just pull them with you.

any thoughts? has 366 degrees popped up before in brawl? i think it's just something used to keep opponents stuck in your multihit attacks. why is it such a weird move? it can slam your opponent into the stage but they can react INSTANTLY from it, no tech needed, but then it slams them back into the ground again if they do nothing.

edit:
ohhhhh. they can react so quickly because.. well.. i think there's just so little knockback that there's no hitstun.. but at higher percents there IS hitstun and you CAN true combo out of late FF fair..

 

[Lavani]

366 degrees is the autolink angle. You see it used in moves like Greninja's uair, Megaman's usmash, and Sheik's uair, it attempts to keep hit opponents locked into the move so all hits connect. Incidentally also the angle responsible for fastfall spikes, though the downward knockback was capped after 1.0.4.

 

[icraq]

ahh thank you! i heard the term autolink used for 365 degrees and i didn't make the connection!
it functions pretty strange off the edge, like if i'm off stage and they're grounded, it doesnt seem to do the semi spike.
i think the buff to the base knockback on her early fair hitboxes made this actually possible, i dont remember ever getting these types of setups in 1.0.3.

oh holy crap I just saw on dantarion's master core 2 Luma actually got a buff in 1.0.4! the usmash hitbox was increased and the sour spot dmg was increased. funny!

 

[icraq]

Feel like this is a worthy find to justify double posting

From the Mechanics & Techniques Discussion:

Some attacks are programmed to behave this way http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/. Basically if the attack parameter right before before shield damage is set to zero, when it clanks it doesn't proc hitlag or cancel the animation so you keep going. It can still be outprioritized if the damage difference is 9+ though. Attacks like Jigg's dash attack and DK's smash attacks have this property. I don't know if this was in Brawl, but it is a nice addition.

I went digging through Rosa's attacks and it turns out she didnt have any of these moves with the parameter that gives her moves super priority. I wasn't too surprised really.

I figured I'd check Luma out (http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=rosetta_tico&mode=view104) and I found THIS

Hitbox_029(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=4.000000, Angle=0x6C, KBG=0x3C, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x6E, Size=3.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=5.000000, X=3.500000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x0, Hitlag=0.500000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x1, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, 0x0, 13.000000, 3.500000, )

which is luma's BAIR. as you can see the parameter before shield damage is 0x0, which means bair should beat out most moves unless out prioritized by damage (13% or higher moves will beat luma's bair). Pretty cool!

OH ONE MORE THING

Luma hits 1 frame later than indicated in its file universally; it just takes a frame to begin to act after input.

That means any of Luma's moves listed up there are actually starting one frame later, so bair doesnt really come out on frame 2 but frame 3, utilt is on frame 3 not 2, jab1 is frame 4, etc.

 

[Iron Kraken]

@ icraq That's interesting about Luma's Bair. Does that knowledge give you an idea of trying to use that attack in more scenarios?

My main use for Luma's Bair is landing on the ground. You can hit your opponent with both Rosalina & Luma's Bair for 15% damage, but you can also more safely land from a distance and have Luma cover you with that 4% hit. I find that Luma's Bair allows me to land safely because it covers a really, really good amount of range behind Rosalina. Sometimes I autocancel the Bair and sometimes I don't, depending on the situation. Perhaps another reason I've been finding it such a safe way to land is because of the priority on Luma's Bair? Either way, it's a good way to land, since as long as the spacing is right it's safe against both attacks and shields.

 

[icraq]

@ icraq That's interesting about Luma's Bair. Does that knowledge give you an idea of trying to use that attack in more scenarios?

My main use for Luma's Bair is landing on the ground. You can hit your opponent with both Rosalina & Luma's Bair for 15% damage, but you can also more safely land from a distance and have Luma cover you with that 4% hit. I find that Luma's Bair allows me to land safely because it covers a really, really good amount of range behind Rosalina. Sometimes I autocancel the Bair and sometimes I don't, depending on the situation. Perhaps another reason I've been finding it such a safe way to land is because of the priority on Luma's Bair? Either way, it's a good way to land, since as long as the spacing is right it's safe against both attacks and shields.

there's actually a very significant aspect to bair having this property that I need to dig into more, I'll probably do a thread on it at some other point but it's something I've discovered with Luma just right before learning about this. It's not like a new AT or anything but it's something I think that will explain a fairly important mystery with R&L.

Since it's pretty off topic I won't get into it here but it still needs more testing before I come out and make any claims. I might do some testing Saturday.

One thing we can gather from this is your autocanceled luma bair is tentatively your highest priority autocanceled approach.

 

[Losho]

This is awesome to see, great to be able to check my frame-data findings against these.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

May I ask why rosalina has a good air game, but Snake from brawl doesn't because theyre frame data looks similar?

 

[icraq]

Oh cool, this got stickied. I guess I should reformat it so it's easier to read. I'll wait til Dantarion uploads the latest frame data dumps. I think this information is going to be unchanged, though, unless we missed something.

 

[Smasher89]

This is awesome to see, great to be able to check my frame-data findings against these.

Disjointed upair

 

[icraq]

I finally formatted this. How's it look? I'm considering rewriting the impressions sections, but that'll probably have to wait.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I finally formatted this. How's it look? I'm considering rewriting the impressions sections, but that'll probably have to wait.

Sorry for the very late reply, but this is great formatting.

This is the most up to date version of her frame data correct? Like 1.0.6 - 1.0.7? I assume nothing was changed.

 

[icraq]

Sorry for the very late reply, but this is great formatting.

This is the most up to date version of her frame data correct? Like 1.0.6 - 1.0.7? I assume nothing was changed.

Oh thanks! Yeah I'm not certain if they changed anything in 1.0.6-.7, but I'd guess there's nothing else. I suspect the IASA frames were buffed on dsmash in 1.0.7, back to their pre-1.0.4 levels, but I have no way of proving that, not even with data dumps.

Eventually Dantarion will do a data dump and I'll update whatever he finds. I still sometimes find errors, and I just correct the main post as I go, eventually I'll have everything right. I still need to just go through manually and increase Luma's frames by 1 and a couple other things.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It seems that thanks to Aerodrome, we now have a successor to this thread. His new thread can be found at the following link.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404174/