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Rosalina and Luma Wii U Casual Stage Discussion

Garde Noir

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What stages do you like with Rosie? What give you trouble?
For example, I like Lylat Cruise a lot, as the platforms are low enough to up-tile through them, and the tilting of the battlefield has little to no effect on Rosalina's massive recovery.

I also tend to like Final Destination. The lack of platforms makes for characters to be more easily juggled in air, and the extreme slant gives Rosalina plenty of leniency to recover, ramping her into the edge at more angles than stages like Smashville and Halberd.

In a similar note, I'm not so keen on Smashville-- the moving platforms give too many options to opponents, especially for them to reliably recover, and to use the closeness of the moving platform to side blast zones to capitalize and kill. The small slant on the bottom of the stage doesn't quite have enough forgiveness to make it easy to recover either.

However, this is a personal preference, and I;d love to hear what you think!

All legal stages:
Standard
  1. Battlefield/Miiverse
  2. Final Destination
  3. Town and City
  4. Lylat Cruise
  5. Smashville
  6. Duck Hunt Stage
  7. Pilotwings (sometimes counter picked)
Counterpick:

  1. Halberd (Brawl)
  2. Kongo Jungle
  3. Delfino Plaza
  4. Omega Mode
  5. Skyloft
  6. Castle Siege
But all stages can be discussed, feel free to talk about how Temple, Pokemon Stadium, Woolly World or Pac-Land work for Rosalina!

EDIT: Updated title to Casual to try and make this more of a freeform chat, discussions or questions about stages. This isn't a place for true analysis.
 
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ChikoLad

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I don't think Rosalina has a bad stage personally. Final Destination is technically her worst, but that isn't to say it's bad for her. She just has no fancy environmental layout to work with, so everything is pretty raw.

Platforms are just good for Rosalina. Rosalina can maneuver well, and can often attack through them easily (it's possible to make Luma attack through them from above, though I can't remember exactly how). It also make auto cancelled dodges easier (specifically on Smashville), and Rosalina has a lot of unique options out of that.
 

ParanoidDrone

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In general I think damaging stage hazards are unusually bad for Rosalina. Not that she herself has trouble with them, but they tend to interfere with Luma as it moves around and may prevent us from controlling it as we normally would. Halberd's laser, Port Town's road, and Norfair's lava are the main examples that come to mind. Of course, other than Halberd there's little chance of these being legal.

Interestingly, Luma is completely immune to 9-Volt in the Gamer stage.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I'm not much of a fan of Lylat Cruise. I've gotten luma stuck under the stage a couple of times.
 

ChikoLad

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This isn't a Rosalina exclusive problem, but I don't actually like fighting on Lylat Cruise. The edge snapping is unusually strict, and I feel the bottom blast zone is unusually close.
 

Losho

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Lylat is in my opinion her worst stage due to the edges and the nature of her recovery.
 

Kese

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Personally, I'm not a fan of lylat cruise due to the layout of it, especially the edges and Luma getting caught underneath..
 

Garde Noir

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I can understand why Lylat could be bad, because it's easy to get caught under the stage, but if you call Luma back and then jump offstage close enough that luma can come back then it's fine. How do you get luma stuck under the stage? Just curiosity.
 

Parcheesy

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Personally, I love Battlefield. Aside from practicing all of my Luma autocanceled things there, it just feels like I have the most options with that platform setup. I'm comfortable leaving Luma out as well, because it's almost never in an irrelevant place. The combo potential with the platforms is insane, and Rosalina can even go completely under the stage with her Up+B; the stage is just amazing.

Lylat is...probably still good for her. While I still get stuck under it every now and then, the platforms are still great for her. As long as my opponent that also has a failure chance with that ledge, I'd be comfortable counterpicking here. I'd definitely avoid here against opponents with failproof recoveries though. I've had a few bouts with a great Duck Hunt here, and he certainly exploited that weakness to its fullest.
 

Zonderion

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Lylat is just a troublesome for opponents as well. I outed a Toon Link in 28 seconds because of the stage. Both deaths he got were because he was just barely too far under the stage and got stuck swinging his sword in circles, trying desperately to dig his way to the top of the stage from underneath...

I love Battlefield and Smashville and Town and City. I'm not big on Lylat Cruise or Delfino Plaze. The other stages are fine though.
 

ParanoidDrone

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How about some of the other new stages? Duck Hunt, Wuhu Island, and Skyloft in particular, since they're the most likely to be allowed Apex notwithstanding.
 

ChikoLad

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How about some of the other new stages? Duck Hunt, Wuhu Island, and Skyloft in particular, since they're the most likely to be allowed Apex notwithstanding.
Duck Hunt could potentially be really interesting for Rosalina in that Luma could hide behind the grass and get cheeky shots out at people. And Rosalina can make it to the top of the tree on the left very quickly using Launch Star. Other than that I'm not sure it'd effect her too much.

Wuhu Island and Skyloft are not stages I have played enough of to comment on, especially considering all of the different areas.
 

icraq

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There's more to Duck Hunt than hiding Luma in the bushes, however it is somewhat satisfying.

The tree offers something no other stage really does, which is a launching platform for early follow up uair kills. It's also fairly easy to kill someone if they happen to get juggled onto the tree with uair. I believe the top platform of the tree is the highest platform of any legal stage relative to the blast zone. I'm not sure if Wuhu or Skyloft are contenders for that title, Skyloft might be, but I don't really see those as becoming standard stages in the long run. Even if they were, I'd auto ban them every time for the jank.

The dog and the shorter tree/bush thing also work as juggle assists for getting up to your opponent quicker again after you uair them once.

If somehow the stars align and you bait your opponent up close, you might be able to utilt off the tree for early kills at low percents.

Finally.. I'm pretty sure it has a lower.. uhh... floor? blast zone. Or it's just less visible, I dunno. But hey, Rosa spikes.

No huge advantages here but every little bit helps. Obviously you'd probably want to pick it vs Ganon or Mac, or any other characters that die easy off the top. I'm curious how tournaments will handle stalling if Rosa's able to hide safely and just sends out Luma to fight.
 

Garde Noir

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There's more to Duck Hunt than hiding Luma in the bushes, however it is somewhat satisfying.

The tree offers something no other stage really does, which is a launching platform for early follow up uair kills. It's also fairly easy to kill someone if they happen to get juggled onto the tree with uair. I believe the top platform of the tree is the highest platform of any legal stage relative to the blast zone. I'm not sure if Wuhu or Skyloft are contenders for that title, Skyloft might be, but I don't really see those as becoming standard stages in the long run. Even if they were, I'd auto ban them every time for the jank.

The dog and the shorter tree/bush thing also work as juggle assists for getting up to your opponent quicker again after you uair them once.

If somehow the stars align and you bait your opponent up close, you might be able to utilt off the tree for early kills at low percents.

Finally.. I'm pretty sure it has a lower.. uhh... floor? blast zone. Or it's just less visible, I dunno. But hey, Rosa spikes.

No huge advantages here but every little bit helps. Obviously you'd probably want to pick it vs Ganon or Mac, or any other characters that die easy off the top. I'm curious how tournaments will handle stalling if Rosa's able to hide safely and just sends out Luma to fight.
This, and the BackgroundDog in the back adding another moving platform is another place your opponent can get caught. Duck stunning also leaves you or your oppone nt in the air for a hair longer, which allows for interesting mechanics and the ability to fake out opponents. I usually take floaty aerial characters like Peach to this stage, and she's much more likely to get stalled in the air and juggled.
 

ChikoLad

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One of my favourite stages that I wish was legal is Windy Hill. Fun stage in general, but Rosalina is very good on it. Nice amount of platforms, some slopes for Luma Shot, and it actually has the same curved gravity gimmick from the Mario Galaxy stage.

It's a real shame this isn't one that will be tournament legal, at least as a counterpick. It probably would be if it weren't for the windmill (which I don't mind myself, but I know how picky we have to be when it comes to tournament stages).
 

Ingoro

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I dislike Halberd a lot, even though we can kill early off the top of the stage, the edge of the ship part is kinda messy, instead of gliding against the stage while recovering up ( like what sv does) it often slides down.
 

icraq

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I dislike Halberd a lot, even though we can kill early off the top of the stage, the edge of the ship part is kinda messy, instead of gliding against the stage while recovering up ( like what sv does) it often slides down.
battlefield on the wii u version has a slope on the left side that catches rosalina like this too
it's pretty easily avoided if you remember beforehand to not recover at too low of an angle
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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*sigh* I really dislike the structure of this thread there's no focus. It would've been really nice to get a better stage thread than this. With that said I'll just ramble on about different stages.

I've come to dislike dk jungle 64. I don't like the blast zones (high ceilings ). I also don't like the slopes on the bottom it's rather annoying.

I really like Delfino Plaza as a counter pick. It's has a lot of things Rosalina can benefit from she doesn't have to always go for the ledge and she can get some pretty early KO's because of some of the transitions. This is probably going to be my favorite CP with her.

I know norfair isn't legal but I have the feeling it maybe legal (was in brawl ). This stage looks like it could be really good for her if they use more cp stages.

Favorite neutral ATM is Smashville. It's a really good stage and I have no real qualms about itn
 

Garde Noir

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*sigh* I really dislike the structure of this thread there's no focus. It would've been really nice to get a better stage thread than this. With that said I'll just ramble on about different stages.

I've come to dislike dk jungle 64. I don't like the blast zones (high ceilings ). I also don't like the slopes on the bottom it's rather annoying.

I really like Delfino Plaza as a counter pick. It's has a lot of things Rosalina can benefit from she doesn't have to always go for the ledge and she can get some pretty early KO's because of some of the transitions. This is probably going to be my favorite CP with her.

I know norfair isn't legal but I have the feeling it maybe legal (was in brawl ). This stage looks like it could be really good for her if they use more cp stages.

Favorite neutral ATM is Smashville. It's a really good stage and I have no real qualms about itn
then begin the structure. I'd have liked it too. I was hoping that everyone would give their opinion of each stage as listed. But I'm going with whatever everyone else did.
 

CatRaccoonBL

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In terms of structure, yeah it needs to have something like the Character match up analysis thread.

We need to have a week to analyze one stage. And then move on to the next.

I was actually going to make one myself, but thought it was a little early to talk about what stages benefitted her. I do have a Rough draft of what I was thinking of, I could finish it up, give it some touches, and give it to you if you think you can handle it and be on time. I should be able to give it to you by today or tomorrow.

This is a very important thread because there are a lot of people will probably from for glory. But you can't fight on final destination forever.

There is also this idea floating around about this new stage striking system, it basically makes it so that you can't always get your favorite stage, so if that idea is implemented, Rosalina players need to know how to react to all legal stages.

----------------------------

I do consider Town & City to be an absolutely amazing stage for her. The height of the platforms allow Luma to get out of hitstun verrrrry early, they are also a massive help to her recovery as she would now have multiple options instead of just the ledge. She can aim for a platform that might be just above her, she could aim for the one on the other side of the stage. She can even just aim for the ledge.

And probably an even more important factor, the platforms can also save Luma! And since there a multiple of them unlike smashville, (which is also a great Rosie stage), it gives a better chance for a platform to be under Luma.

However, there are still downsides. A lot of characters get a mobility boost so Rosalina mains have to be careful.

I see some praise for battlefield, but I don't know, it just seems like an easier time to get juggled. It static nature also doesn't help her recovery as much as smashville or Town&City. She still usually has to aim for the ledge.
 

Garde Noir

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In terms of structure, yeah it needs to have something like the Character match up analysis thread.

We need to have a week to analyze one stage. And then move on to the next.

I was actually going to make one myself, but thought it was a little early to talk about what stages benefitted her. I do have a Rough draft of what I was thinking of, I could finish it up, give it some touches, and give it to you if you think you can handle it and be on time. I should be able to give it to you by today or tomorrow.

This is a very important thread because there are a lot of people will probably from for glory. But you can't fight on final destination forever.

There is also this idea floating around about this new stage striking system, it basically makes it so that you can't always get your favorite stage, so if that idea is implemented, Rosalina players need to know how to react to all legal stages.

----------------------------

I do consider Town & City to be an absolutely amazing stage for her. The height of the platforms allow Luma to get out of hitstun verrrrry early, they are also a massive help to her recovery as she would now have multiple options instead of just the ledge. She can aim for a platform that might be just above her, she could aim for the one on the other side of the stage. She can even just aim for the ledge.

And probably an even more important factor, the platforms can also save Luma! And since there a multiple of them unlike smashville, (which is also a great Rosie stage), it gives a better chance for a platform to be under Luma.

However, there are still downsides. A lot of characters get a mobility boost so Rosalina mains have to be careful.

I see some praise for battlefield, but I don't know, it just seems like an easier time to get juggled. It static nature also doesn't help her recovery as much as smashville or Town&City. She still usually has to aim for the ledge.
I tend to agree. I will always pick T&C over Battlefield. Too many other people are incredibly comfortable on that stage, and that platforms are placed just right so every character gets a better chance to juggle. It's just that Rosalina tends to take juggling worse than some other characters
 

icraq

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so I just discovered a love for Kongo Jungle 64. Rosa can platform pressure like nothing else there and she can still kill early with uairs. On top of this, she lives FOREVER there. I used to think it was her worst stage, but now I think it's one of her best.

The issue though is it's not allowed at Apex. That's a bummer, since most tournaments will be using similar rulesets.
 

ParanoidDrone

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so I just discovered a love for Kongo Jungle 64. Rosa can platform pressure like nothing else there and she can still kill early with uairs. On top of this, she lives FOREVER there. I used to think it was her worst stage, but now I think it's one of her best.

The issue though is it's not allowed at Apex. That's a bummer, since most tournaments will be using similar rulesets.
I think it's allowed for doubles. But at this point complaining about the Apex ruleset is beating a dead horse, there's so much I would change it's not even funny.
 
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Amazing Ampharos

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I have played a lot of matches and feel like sharing how I'm feeling about Rosalina's stages, will not be "casual" in any sense except that I will write way less than I could about each stage and will try to get to the essence of what I like/don't like about each. I'm going to include the 14 stages I've seen legal around here; they are in order of preference for me in an abstract match-up (will obviously deviate if I have a match-up or player specific concern). This is from my best stage to worst stage:

Battlefield
Halberd
Skyloft
Delfino Plaza
Kongo Jungle 64
Pokemon Stadium 2
Lylat Cruise
Wuhu Island
Smashville
Castle Siege
Duck Hunt
Town & City
Final Destination
Windy Hill Zone

BF is just an amazing Rosalina stage. She has an extremely good platform game and can control this stage to a generally excessive extent; it's just plain hard to get in on her here if she's smart. I don't really see how it would hurt her in getting juggled; you can use the basic mix-up of land on the platform or not all of the time to get out of juggle situations which is half of why I love platforms with her. That's about it really; it's just all good for her with no real downsides.

Halberd is mostly pretty solid. The shape of the main platform with that one longer low overhead platform is pretty good for her spatial control, and I mostly like low ceilings with her since she mostly kills up (uair/luma jab 3 both kill up, very important when these kill earlier). I feel like sharking is mostly a wash with her; it's something she can do but not particularly better than average so that's neither a pro nor a con. People get scared of hazards here killing Luma; just deploy Luma at the right times if you are scared of that and otherwise enjoy how much control your opponents will often give you for irrational fear of Halberd's non-threatening hazards.

Skyloft is interesting in that I feel like most of the landing zones are kinda bad for Rosalina but the shape of all of the moving sections is fantastic (the one that's the one super long platform especially is very fun!). This stage is so diverse that it tends to be pretty fair in almost every match-up, but Rosalina is a slower paced character so she's pretty good at waiting out the bad and capitalizing on the good so I feel like that diversity is overall a positive for her.

What I said about Skyloft mostly applies to Delfino with Delfino only being slightly worse due to Luma not knowing how to swim so a few landing sites are relatively worse for her than for other characters. It's probably mostly player preference between the two; I like Skyloft more but would definitely understand someone preferring Delfino.

Kongo is funny since the high ceiling is mostly bad but the platform shape is incredible and really enhances her juggle game a lot. The nook in the middle of the stage is funky and is something I like in some match-ups and dislike in others. If you want to play for a timeout or if you're playing someone who kills up better than you, this stage can be a really good pick.

PS2 is kinda the opposite of the true transforming stages; I feel like the default form's platform shape is actually kinda bad for Rosalina, but the transformations are all pretty good. She can control ground's bisected nature pretty well with two characters (either side she's on is just dominated), wind requires her to play carefully but can get her crazy early kills easier than it can give most other characters since it's just a nightmare to be stuck in a very long juggle situation vs Rosalina, electric she can just dominate, and ice is probably about a wash for her but it's so much fun I kinda like it anyway?

Lylat isn't bad. The platform shape is a lot worse than BF but still generally favorable. The ledges aren't a problem; it's not a character thing it's a player thing to have trouble recovering to them so just learn how to do it and enjoy how other players accept a consistent disadvantage for being bad at controlling their recoveries (this advice applies to every smash stage in every game with "bad ledges"; no player maining any character should ever have a problem with them). While this stage is generally too far down on the depth chart to be worth cping for Rosalina, I might actually consider it just because some players are bad with the ledges and might give you free wins by failing to recover.

Wuhu has the general pros for Rosalina as a transforming stage, but the very horizontal layout it usually has just doesn't do her favors and water is also generally not good. I'm not really scared of this stage, but it's honestly only worth counterpicking against someone who is convinced it's a bad stage since they'll play badly here it doesn't do a whole lot for Rosalina herself.

Smashville is a stage I mostly avoid because it's so popular but it's not awful for Rosalina at all. The stage can be kinda cramped at times which is mostly good, and against characters who are bad in the air that moving platform can be very campable (IMO it's more campable than any other platform in the game due to how it moves). It doesn't offer her a lot, but she can work with what's there well enough.

If Castle Siege were always in form 1 it would be a pretty good Rosalina stage. Form 2 is just not one she can practically control and she has no real walk-off game to take advantage of how lengthy that walk-off is around. Form 3 just does very little for her as well; FD with slopes isn't my friend. A lot of players are kinda bad with this stage so if you're confident on all stages it's not so bad, but I'd only consider cping it if I had something super specific read on my opponent about how this one would help me.

All three of Duck Hunt, Town & City, and FD are kinda similar in that they have really limited platform presence which makes stage control harder than it should otherwise be. FD is obviously the worst; I feel like Duck Hunt (poorly placed platforms) versus Town & City (temporary but helpful platforms) is preference and I kinda prefer Duck Hunt (the grass blinds are kinda nice for being sneaky too). None of them are truly "bad", but versus other options, I'd try to avoid all three. Praise for T&C definitely surprises me; I kinda liked the idea of it, but when I played on it more in practice, I found it just generally wasn't helpful and that SV was probably better for the moving platform thing.

Windy Hill Zone is a stage I mostly don't fear because everyone else fears it, but honestly that's all it has going for it for Rosalina. The shape isn't really realistic for her to control at all, and while it's nice how easy it is to kill up, the geography seems to make it a bit harder for her to chase than it would otherwise be. Other characters can get a lot out of the shape and she doesn't; I wouldn't want to come here versus someone actually ready for it at all.
 

Garde Noir

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As I partially stated in the competitive stage thread, I think FD is a great stage for a few of Rosalina's matchups, like Marth, Mac and Peach, who all benefit from the mobility boost. For those people, FD is great. But all in all, FD is one of the stages that is more meh then bad. She gets more aerial options, and it's easier for her to Up-Air juggle on this stage.
 

Smasher89

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I would say definitly that bettlefield feels like one of Rosettas stronger stages.

If the opponent are on the ledge, you can just jab with luma close to the edge to get muma spaces, apply pressure and give time to react for the opponents choice. Alot of times players go high since chiko already gives control below, and hitting rosetta is harder.
http://www.twitch.tv/saltyplayground/b/609349654?t=9m40s The biginning is kinda what i mean(until i dont recall luma which was a big mistake)

Ive yet to figure out how to play on fd (got a match just before the bf match if youre curius), ive played ALOT for glory but since those players are generally not applying pressure im not sure how to play against that there.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Stages with platforms do give Rosalina more attack options for her Luma partner, especially if Rosalina is using the Luma Warp custom special.
 
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