RMT: Ubers Sun

[global-wolf]

Hi guys, I don't think I've posted in this forum before, but I've been playing simulator Pokemon on and off for some time. My favorite weather is Sun in all tiers and especially so in Ubers, where its inducer is actually really good. My current team is a modified version of the team I slapped together when I first started playing DW Ubers (back when people actually played DW.) You can see it here. Right now I'm hovering around 1400 points on the Wifi Ubers ladder on PO, but I can't get higher because my team has some very bad weaknesses. I hope the people here will be able to help me!

Spoiler

Deoxys-A @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball
- ExtremeSpeed
- Grass Knot

My lovely lead. Even without STAB it can take out chunks from the other team. People don't seem to expect Grass Knot for some reason and lead with their weather inducer, which gets 2HKO'd without investment. Superpower is great for Arceus, Darkrai, Dialga, and Ferrothorn. Shadow Ball gives me something to do against Psychics and Ghosts, and though it usually does almost nothing to Girantina, Lati@s, or Lugia, it can hurt other Deoxys or Mewtwo. Extremespeed is good in general as a physical attack for when I don't want to use Superpower or as a priority move that's faster than Arceus's Extremespeed.

Depending on my opponent I can usually take at least 1 pokemon out with this in the beginning, and sometimes more if my opponent is really clueless about what moves it has. (I'm really amazed by it, this set was the lead Deoxys-A set on Smogon before it got changed for some reason. I'm holding my breath for the day where I can't surprise people anymore.) If my opponent switches in something that I can't touch, I switch Deoxys out and use him later or save him as a sacrificial switch.

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def

Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave

Groudon is a great physical tank and he is my switch-in to Genesect leads and Extremekiller Arceus. I usually use T-wave when I think a Kyogre or some scary fast thing is coming in, and Stealth Rock at other times when possible, though I don't get it up a lot of the time. Groudon is a good Tyranitar and Excadrill check too. Unfortunately, its SpDef sucks and it loses to every Ice Beam, and that's where my Arceus comes in.

I send Groudon in on Lugia too because I don't like T-wave on my team at all. And I end up using T-wave on it more often than not because I have no other status moves in my team and sometimes the paralysis works... but usually it doesn't, and the Lugia stalls for another 10 turns without a single turn lost.

Arceus @ Leftovers
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Overheat

The one and only Extremekiller Arceus, with a twist: I put 252 EV's in Special Defense to help it take special attacks. Though I just ran some calcs and it's barely stronger then just putting everything in hp LOL so I'll be changing that. (It used to have a Lonely nature too...) Shadow Claw is necessary for hitting Girantina, Ghost Arceus, and Mewtwo. It's especially important for Mewtwo because it survives a +2 Extremespeed and it has Pressure to drain the PP. Overheat is for the Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress that try to set up, and I also send in Arceus for Forretress leads, though quite honestly the Forretress usually manages to set up SR and some sort of Spikes in the time it takes for me to kill it so I don't know if I should be doing that anymore.

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Tailwind
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Recover

No sun team is complete without a sun sweeper right? So here it is! ...Except I can't remember a time that it swept. Sometimes I don't even get to send it in or it loses to the first attack it meets after SR. Anyway, I switch it in on other Ho-Oh's and Pokemon who I think might have Will-O-Wisp. I also switch it in on those pesky steels when I don't want to/can't use Arceus for whatever reason, and it does a good job on scaring them out, but all the teams I face seem to have Pokemon that counter it pretty well.

Tailwind makes a difference in maybe one in every ten games. I might put Toxic on it, I don't know. I have no spinner on my team either. I might try Reshiram again too, but that would be another dragon weakness on my team with no resists (though it's not like Ho-Oh can take any dragon move after SR either lol.)

Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Aura Sphere
- Dragon Pulse

This is my throwaway slot. I've tried Jirachi, Metagross, Forretress, Genesect, Terrakion, Shaymin, and now Dialga in the past month, but none of them made much difference in the overall success of the team. Jirachi, Metagross, and Forretress were just bad (I've never been able to use a Forretress successfully.) Shaymin hardly did anything except cause SpDef drops on Girantina. Scarfed Genesect, Terrakion, and Dialga were a lot better; they let me revenge kill things and were a decent switch-in to Arceus, especially Terrakion, but they were still the most useless Pokemon on the team. With Dialga, I have mostly been using Draco Meteor because it is very powerful.

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Recover
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Latias is my Kyogre switch-in. I used to have a Palkia, but I didn't like how slow it was without a Scarf and how with it I was stuck on attacks (and how Special Rend always missed for me.) Latias takes less than 50% even from Ice Beam if Kyogre doesn't have Specs and can kill it with Thunder. Most things that get sent in are hit pretty hard with Thunder too. Draco Meteor is good as a general attack. I use Ice Beam when I don't want a SpAtk drop, when I really need the move to hit, and when I'm out of the rain and I need to hit Lugia. It really does not do much to Lugia at all but it can be good when Lugia is at low health or when it loses a turn to paralysis. Latias gets walled really bad by Ferrothorn though, if I haven't managed to take it out early in the game.


Weaknesses:

Arceus-Ghost is a great Extremekiller counter, and it's ridiculously bulky and fast. The only Pokemon on my team that can outspeed it are Deoxys-A, which is usually dead, and whatever scarfer I have in slot 5, and none of those can do much damage to it. Groudon and Latias can't fight it either; they get killed with Judgement very easily. Whatever damage I tack onto it gets recovered away. Ho-Oh loses if SR is up, which it usually is.

Lugia is another Extremekiller counter that spreads status and stalls forever. I have nothing to take it out with outright, and it usually wears down a good deal of my team before I can get rid of it. One thing I liked a lot about Reshiram was that it could bypass Multiscale.

Oh Extremekiller, y u so broken. If it comes in when my Arceus isn't around or hasn't set up, it wins because it's usually faster. Groudon used to be my only answer to it, but if it was already worn down or it got critted I'd pretty much have lost the game. So I've been trying Pokemon that resist Extremespeed in my 5th slot so I have some insurance against it.



The problem with the above threats is that I can't find a single Pokemon that can deal with all three of these. If I chose a Pokemon like Darkrai for dealing with Ghost-Arceus and Lugia, I would be wide-open to Extremekiller.

I can usually work around other troublesome things like status or threatening Pokemon by switching a lot, but I don't have a spinner or a healer and my team takes quite a bit of residual damage. The very first version of this team had a Starmie, which was a pretty good spinner and paralyzer but couldn't do much else.

All comments and suggestions will be appreciated!

[collapse=Importable]Deoxys-A @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball
- ExtremeSpeed
- Grass Knot


Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave


Arceus @ Leftovers
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Overheat


Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 200 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Recover


Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Aura Sphere
- Dragon Pulse


Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Recover
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
[/collapse]

 

[IceArrow]

I wrote a really long description and lost it accidentally. I will write a shorter version though.

Ho-Oh needs a Spinner
Latias should be Calm Minding
Take Out Dialga for Forretress


I know you said Forretress doesn't work but with my other suggestions it will work better.

Spoiler

Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball
- ExtremeSpeed
- Grass Knot

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave

Arceus @ Leftovers
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 244 SDef / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Overheat

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Recover

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Calm Mind

 

[global-wolf]

Thanks for the post! Sorry that you lost the original one. I'm curious about that Latias set though- wouldn't its loss of speed be really bad? And it seems like the EVs would be better in Def rather than SpDef too.

 

[IceArrow]

He doesnt really need the speed since all the common physical pokemon are either slow or won't be able to kill Latias in one hit. The SpD > Def EVs are because it is a lot easier for Latias to set up on a Kyogre or another SpA attacker since they are more common in Ubers.

 

[global-wolf]

Extremekiller Arceus sounds like it would be a huge problem, but I will try it out, thank you.

 

[IceArrow]

I tried it out and I found that the only real problem is Ghost Arceus. Deoxys destroys original Arceus.

 

[global-wolf]

Are the people you're playing sending out their Extremekillers against lead Deoxys? o__o In that case, Deoxys definitely kills it. Usually Arceus gets sent out in a late part of the game when Deoxys is gone or has its sash broken though.

 

[IceArrow]

Well if I know Deoxys wont win the lead battle I switch.

 

[global-wolf]

As do I... but entry hazards and status break its sash and it's gone in one hit, and it can't OHKO Arceus with Extremespeed. I suppose Forretress can help that, if I can spin before Lugia whirlwinds Deoxys in.

 

[IceArrow]

Ya but that is a pretty rare scenario. Lugia will fall to a Stone Edge first.

 

[global-wolf]

It's actually very common... and Lugia takes about 33% from Groudon's Stone Edge, 18% with Multiscale.

Edit: I just played about 10 games with the changes. Latias is outsped by even unscarfed Kyogre and can barely scratch it without Thunder and without investment. Forretress gets set up bad by Extremekiller Arceus and I have nothing else but Groudon that can only 3HKO Arceus. Haven't gotten a chance to use Ho-Oh yet.

 

[IceArrow]

Your supposed to boost with Latias before using Dragon Pulse or until they switch. You volt Switch when you face an Arceus. Ho-Oh can also beat Extreme Killer Arceus.

 

[global-wolf]

Would it be okay if I played you with you using this team? I can't get this team to work, but if it's too troublesome then it's fine.

 

[IceArrow]

I definitely would but I have an iPad so I can only use Pokemon Showdown.

 

[global-wolf]

Showdown is great, I just hope I remember how to use it haha. I'll get on it now.

 

[IceArrow]

Ok, my name is IceArrow on showdown also.

 

[global-wolf]

It gives me this message: "Deoxys-A (Deoxys-Attack) can't have ."

Edit: Has been fixed.

 

[Gates]

Groudon @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Okay, I was kind of joking around with you in that other thread when I said that you were a little too in-love with Thunder Wave for having it on three pokemon, but I didn't realize that you loved Stealth Rock even more, so much so that you put it on two pokemon! lol

Latias is outsped by even unscarfed Kyogre

I was going to say "there's no way that's correct" but then I looked at the spread you've been using. Frankly, it's quite bad. I'd recommend this instead.

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost
- Substitute/Refresh

Latias' biggest advantages over Kyogre are Soul Dew and it's speed. So far you've only been abusing one of those. It's time you started abusing the other. Substitute and Refresh also help against more defensive Kyogre variants like Thunder Wave Kyogre. Dragon Pulse is all the coverage you need. The only situations where you would need HP Fighting would be against Ferrothorn (lol), Forretress (lol), Skarmory (lol), Heatran (nobody uses him), Jirachi (nobody uses him), Metagross (you're screwed no matter what), or Steel Arceus (you can PP stall him). This set has never done me wrong, and I really recommend you use it over your current build.

Anyway, it looks to me like a lot of your team's problems can be solved by using Toxic on Forretress. T. Spikes is good because it's Ghost Arceus' biggest weakness and Normal Arceus is limited by it too if he doesn't have Lum Berry or Refresh, but it doesn't hit Lugia at all. I'd recommend using this Forretress:

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes/Toxic Spikes
- Toxic
- Volt Switch/Pain Split

This guy can switch in on Ekiller or Ghostface Killah's boosting moves and Toxic them while resisting whatever they try to throw at them. Check out the damage calcs below.

252Atk Life Orb +2 Multitype Arceus (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 252HP/4Def Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (Neutral): 37% - 43% (131 - 154 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.	
252Atk Life Orb +2 Multitype Arceus (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/4Def Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (Neutral): 61% - 72% (219 - 258 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.	
252Atk Life Orb +2 Multitype Arceus (+Atk) Brick Break vs 252HP/4Def Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (Neutral): 46% - 54% (163 - 193 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 4% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
252SpAtk Spooky Plate +1 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Focus Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (+SpDef): 51% - 60% (182 - 215 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.	
252SpAtk Spooky Plate +1 Multitype Arceus (Neutral) Judgment vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (+SpDef): 38% - 45% (136 - 161 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

Additionally, I would also recommend running Roar or Dragon Tail on Groudon over Thunder Wave as it will allow Groudon to check physical Arceus variants a lot better.

 

[IceArrow]

Ya I quickly made this new team after losing my long description on my first post. I didn't mean to have 2 SRs. Ya I pretty much agree with everything you just posted.

 

[global-wolf]

Thanks Gates! I played a few games with those changes on my test account. Sub on Latias and Ho-Oh and Toxic on Forretress does a wonderful job of beating walls like Lugia and Giratina. The Ghost Arceus all seem to carry flamethrower though, it's listed on the Smogon sets too, someone must've gotten tired of being walled by steels lol. I still have trouble making Forretress useful against offensive teams, but that's probably my fault. I can't seem to use it properly. Still, I went from around 1200 on my test account to 1300, so it's pretty good

I have a new problem without a revenge killer though- now Mewtwo does what it wants with my team. It outspeeds all my Pokemon and +2 Arceus can't even kill it. Latias takes 40% from Ice Beam now, but can't damage it too much. If my Pokemon aren't at full health, it becomes very hard to deal with.

 

[IceArrow]

With Latias you can just boost until it switches.