Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[Natethepipkin]

As a devoted playtester, I just can't stop thinking about RoA, here are some of my newest ideas:

Glaciane: Orcane's rival, creates slippery ice patches that other players trip on but Glaciane can glide across it gracefully to enhance combos. Glaciane can also freeze Orcane's puddles into ice in order to have more beneficial real estate on the battlefield.

Krakl: Kragg's rival, can control sand. Shoots sand at enemies which slows them down. Also utilizes sand twisters. Krakl is light like sand and can jump 4 times in the air, giving him dexterity in the air, however he is extremely slow and weak on the ground.

Huibui: Wrastors rival is the smallest character in the cast, but also the fastest. It is an electric hummingbird with a pikachu like recovery, and electric attacks that leave the opponent stunned for a short while. Instead of traditional jumping, one can hold down the jump button and Huibui will fly around freely (kinda like Rob's Up B).

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Boasting Toast]

As a devoted playtester, I just can't stop thinking about RoA, here are some of my newest ideas:

Glaciane: Orcane's rival, creates slippery ice patches that other players trip on but Glaciane can glide across it gracefully to enhance combos. Glaciane can also freeze Orcane's puddles into ice in order to have more beneficial real estate on the battlefield.

Krakl: Kragg's rival, can control sand. Shoots sand at enemies which slows them down. Also utilizes sand twisters. Krakl is light like sand and can jump 4 times in the air, giving him dexterity in the air, however he is extremely slow and weak on the ground.

Huibui: Wrastors rival is the smallest character in the cast, but also the fastest. It is an electric hummingbird with a pikachu like recovery, and electric attacks that leave the opponent stunned for a short while. Instead of traditional jumping, one can hold down the jump button and Huibui will fly around freely (kinda like Rob's Up B).

Let me know what you guys think.

Actually REALLY love the idea for Huibui.

 

[Natethepipkin]

Actually REALLY love the idea for Huibui.

Thanks man, means a lot.

 

[akf09]

hey what is a good adapter for using gamecube controllors to play roa? need to get one asap


also what file do i need to download?

 

[TheHorniestLobster]

hey what is a good adapter for using gamecube controllors to play roa? need to get one asap


also what file do i need to download?

Mayflash gamecube -> PC. No additional files to download, just plug and play.

 

[WheelerFGC]

I just got the March update this morning/last night (Thanks Dan) and I have a problem.
It seems to make my computer laggier then before... I don't know why. Also Forsburn's smoke causes some framelag if you have more then about 4 clouds out. (it could just be my computer being sucky.)

EDIT: scratch that. It might be the fire capital/air fortress. I seem to do fine at the rock wall and Orcane's level (I don't know the name well enough yet)

I'm going to talk to some of the other Washington testers and I'll post more information later.

 

[Yurya]

As a devoted playtester, I just can't stop thinking about RoA, here are some of my newest ideas:

Glaciane: Orcane's rival, creates slippery ice patches that other players trip on but Glaciane can glide across it gracefully to enhance combos. Glaciane can also freeze Orcane's puddles into ice in order to have more beneficial real estate on the battlefield.

Being able to freeze Orcane's puddles, while logical, is very polarizing and would make Orcane's match-up somewhat one-sided. I myself are a proponent of a "Ice Sheet" like character and as long as it is a Walrus I am good with it. Walrus. /s

Krakl: Kragg's rival, can control sand. Shoots sand at enemies which slows them down. Also utilizes sand twisters. Krakl is light like sand and can jump 4 times in the air, giving him dexterity in the air, however he is extremely slow and weak on the ground.

Sand is a neat element, but it is a little unclear what "slows them down" means. Could work it is a nice theme.

Huibui: Wrastors rival is the smallest character in the cast, but also the fastest. It is an electric hummingbird with a pikachu like recovery, and electric attacks that leave the opponent stunned for a short while. Instead of traditional jumping, one can hold down the jump button and Huibui will fly around freely (kinda like Rob's Up B).

Let me know what you guys think.

It would be a weird change to the basic controls so I'm not sure how it would transition. I'm also not a fan of the Pikachu recovery but that is probably personal.

Rough ideas but if Dan needs inspiration they work well.

 

[Burnsy]

All in all, I feel that the entire cast was made to feel really strong with a relatively low learning curve, making each character seemingly OP to the standard smash player.

This so much. Me and Zman bring this up every time we talk about the games balance, and especially when discussing other player feedback. It's one of the reasons the game feels so good to me.

 

[Xanthus]

SmokeStalling!
When you up-b into smoke, you re-gain your double jump and have no ending lag. You can do an UP-B into the same spot infinitely, but it has practical uses to mix up your recovery.

I haven't played against people yet (where smoke actually does anything. Maybe CPU's can treat nearest smoke as a target as well, if player is inside smoke?), so I'll have to hold Forsburn feedback until then.

 

[Streetwize]

SmokeStalling!
When you up-b into smoke, you re-gain your double jump and have no ending lag. You can do an UP-B into the same spot infinitely, but it has practical uses to mix up your recovery.
http://gfycat.com/WhisperedSpottedBluewhale

You can't directly link a gfy as an image sadly.
On subject though: It's still stalling that becomes effective against characters such as Wrastor and Forsburn himself. Honestly, it should just not allow your double jump again.

 

[TheHorniestLobster]

You can't directly link a gfy as an image sadly.
On subject though: It's still stalling that becomes effective against characters such as Wrastor and Forsburn himself. Honestly, it should just not allow your double jump again.

Its a (or so it seems, haven't played against it) pretty useless thing to do, honestly. Just throw a projectile at. Easy. As for forsburn, well. Sure, he cant't do /tooo/ much about it, but he can jump out and attack it.


I think the double jump is fine to be honest.

 

[Streetwize]

Its a (or so it seems, haven't played against it) pretty useless thing to do, honestly. Just throw a projectile at. Easy. As for forsburn, well. Sure, he cant't do /tooo/ much about it, but he can jump out and attack it.


I think the double jump is fine to be honest.

Of course projectiles can break through it. It's why Wrastor will have a harder time since his can be destroyed and cannot be spammed. This will be fixed somehow since it's stalling. You can just keep doing it and force your opponent to act instead, and it is probably not easy to get a good read against that.. Given enough practice on how to control yourself in the air it becomes unfair. Dan fixed Kragg's ability to stay under Air Armada by placing limiters on how low and high he can make his pillars, effectively killing himself if he gets below the stage.
The only reason why MineKragg stayed is because it's kinda difficult to exploit in a real fight. This I can see being abused to force opponents to go offstage.

 

[TheHorniestLobster]

Of course projectiles can break through it. It's why Wrastor will have a harder time since his can be destroyed and cannot be spammed. This will be fixed somehow since it's stalling. You can just keep doing it and force your opponent to act instead, and it is probably not easy to get a good read against that.. Given enough practice on how to control yourself in the air it becomes unfair. Dan fixed Kragg's ability to stay under Air Armada by placing limiters on how low and high he can make his pillars, effectively killing himself if he gets below the stage.
The only reason why MineKragg stayed is because it's kinda difficult to exploit in a real fight. This I can see being abused to force opponents to go offstage.

Valid points.


Perhaps adding similar limiters, such as how far horizontally smoke could be placed, could be a solution? Assuming Dan would want to keep the DJ. Otherwise, your idea of getting rid of the DJ would be best, but he could still just UP-B again, correct?

 

[someonetookjacob]

I pointed this same thing out about a page ago, I just didnt have a shiny gif. My suggestion was to only let FB get his second jump and up-special back once or twice per airtime.

I still like the ability for a good FB player to be able to get some smoke offstage, and use it to boost and mix up their recovery (especially if the other player ignores the smoke) and I really like the mix up and movement and maybe even follow up abilities the way it works now offers him. It just shouldnt be usable as a stall.

As it is now, FB can stay in a smoke cloud almost indefinitely, up-special in place->jump->up-special in place->jump.

Even if characters do have a way to deal with it, it still doesnt seem fair to me.

 

[steak4prez]

Of course projectiles can break through it. It's why Wrastor will have a harder time since his can be destroyed and cannot be spammed. This will be fixed somehow since it's stalling. You can just keep doing it and force your opponent to act instead, and it is probably not easy to get a good read against that.. Given enough practice on how to control yourself in the air it becomes unfair. Dan fixed Kragg's ability to stay under Air Armada by placing limiters on how low and high he can make his pillars, effectively killing himself if he gets below the stage.
The only reason why MineKragg stayed is because it's kinda difficult to exploit in a real fight. This I can see being abused to force opponents to go offstage.

Is a Forsburn that's busy SmokeStalling going to be able to destroy Wrastor's projectile while spamming Up-B? Even if he had the time/reaction to hit it before it cleared any smoke, performing an aerial would still clear out some smoke and give Wrastor an opportunity to strike.
I personally don't really think it's a huge problem. However, I do think you're right in that it should and probably will be changed anyway.

Wait, derp, I have been paying no attention and didn't even realize that Forsburn gets his double jump back, I thought he could just Up-B again. I mean, getting the Up-B refreshed is cool IMO, I don't really see any reason why he should get his double jump back again.

 

[Xanthus]

I think a limit on how many times you can use it offstage or touching the ground could work, so that on the 3rd time it wouldn't cancel. Gives you multiple opportunities to mix it up, without potentially stalling the game.

 

[Streetwize]

Valid points.


Perhaps adding similar limiters, such as how far horizontally smoke could be placed, could be a solution? Assuming Dan would want to keep the DJ. Otherwise, your idea of getting rid of the DJ would be best, but he could still just UP-B again, correct?

I see what you mean by preventing the smoke being offstage as there's no real point for it to be off the stage being used to help him trick around and absorb it. This is an interesting idea, but like Jacob said, it still would allow for a good recovery mixup. Always teleporting towards the stage is predictable.
This is not a character I choose to take so much interest in, so I can't really give a good idea on how to fix it honestly. Hopefully the players that are learning him have better ideas

 

[someonetookjacob]

I think a limit on how many times you can use it offstage or touching the ground could work, so that on the 3rd time it wouldn't cancel. Gives you multiple opportunities to mix it up, without potentially stalling the game.

After thinking about it for a while this is my favorite solution. It prevents stalling, but in normal play will probably almost never come up.

 

[TheHorniestLobster]

I see what you mean by preventing the smoke being offstage as there's no real point for it to be off the stage being used to help him trick around and absorb it. This is an interesting idea, but like Jacob said, it still would allow for a good recovery mixup. Always teleporting towards the stage is predictable.
This is not a character I choose to take so much interest in, so I can't really give a good idea on how to fix it honestly. Hopefully the players that are learning him have better ideas

To clarify, I didn't mean to eliminate it from being off the stage at all, but how far off stage it could be placed.

I think a limit on how many times you can use it offstage or touching the ground could work, so that on the 3rd time it wouldn't cancel. Gives you multiple opportunities to mix it up, without potentially stalling the game.

This seems like the best solution so far. Good idea!

 

[Steel Banana]

I was able to consistently recreate the double puddle bug and the double wind current bug.

If Orcane is hit out of his up-special on a specific frame, it cancels the teleport and creates a second puddle. If Wrastor is hit out of the startup of his side-special, it allows him to use side-special again. While both are out, only the first one is functional, but as soon as it disappears, the second one becomes functional.

I did a lot of tests and as far as I can tell, this bug does not apply to other single-instance items (such as Zetter's down-special fire / Kragg's stone pillar or rock block).

 

[WheelerFGC]

Well, while everyone is busy talking about glitches, I have been doing a mini-writeup on Forsburn. I had it in a text file, but I'm not going to post that, so I'm just going to copy/paste the text. This is what I have SO FAR. I will be updating it (If I remember the certain post...)

"Writeup???"

Spoiler

Strengths:
Good air mobility/combos, His aerials actually remind me of Meta Knight/Lucario. (moreso on Luario, specifically PM/4) Fair links together really well with another Fair at low percents. His FAir is like PM/4 Lucario and his Bair is specifically PM Lucario (I'm a PM Lucario Main)
Smoke is well used... sorta. It's hard to cloak yourself when anytime that you attack you destroy the cloud. But if it's for balancing purposes I'll let it slide.
Utilt is a great multihit move. All hitboxes ACTUALLY link together.
DownB (combust?) has EXCELLENT kill power.
Weaknesses/Problems:
I feel that the Uair (looks like Link's Uair) needs a bit more knockback. It's nearly impossible to kill with, even near the top of the Merchant Port stage (or just a bit above the water wheel, near the top of the "screen") This could just be chalked up to the Port possibly having a ridiculously high celing. Going to test with the other stages. It's good for juggling though.
Forsburn's smoke causes LAG (or my computer sucks. Let's chalk it up to both for now)
Kragg is way to heavy to be hit with the two hits of USmash as often as it should, even at higher percentages, BUT, it can link from USmash to Utilt (that might be ok?)
THINGS TO NERF/BUFF
The clone needs to be set on a timer. I played a few matches against the AI (don't have player 2 set up on joy2key) and the clone completely overwhelmed the opponent. I understand that it can be defeated after one hit, but in a 2v1 situation it's hard to land a single hit. OR, set a cooldown on the "revival" of the clone, something like Rosalina's Luma.

 

[Mum]

SmokeStalling!
When you up-b into smoke, you re-gain your double jump and have no ending lag. You can do an UP-B into the same spot infinitely, but it has practical uses to mix up your recovery.

I haven't played against people yet (where smoke actually does anything. Maybe CPU's can treat nearest smoke as a target as well, if player is inside smoke?), so I'll have to hold Forsburn feedback until then.

I played around with this tech, it seems very powerful! You can up-special into a cloud, then up-special somewhere else, out of the cloud. Very deceptive.

 

[Burnsy]

AZProjectmelee just went live at Cyber Monday with the new build!

http://www.twitch.tv/azprojectmelee

 

[Kasado-Bit]

My apologies for not commenting on the official forum thread as often as I should. I've been spending more time in the Skype chat, but I'll make sure to post my thoughts about the beta build here before I mention it in the chat.

Also, my brother is visiting for about a week, so I'll try to get him to play the build I have and see what his thoughts are. I'm not sure how useful this feedback will be considering that it's an older build and not the one with Forsburn, but I'd still like to at least help as much as I can with this.

 

[arcticfox8]

You can't directly link a gfy as an image sadly.

 

[Mum]

I think it has been mentioned before, but Kragg Up-Special parrying visual bug:
http://www.twitch.tv/greenapplegames/b/637795724?t=19m35s

 

[someonetookjacob]

Quick thought on FB's smoke screen:

I think if he gets hit while emitting smoke he should stop smoking.
Here is why, as things stand now you cant destroy his smoke until after it materializes which puts you in a strange position. FB is establishing an advantage, and all you can do is wait to deal with it. If you hit him he just spreads his smoke over a wider area. I think the opponent should be encouraged to go in and stop the smoke, not wait it out. It will also help discourage unsafe smoking, and encourage more carefully planned play from FB (which I think fits his character well, the assassin)

I havent thought a lot about balance implications (but I dont think it hurts him a ton) . This is more for making play fun and aggressive.

Thoughts?

 

[Yurya]

Quick thought on FB's smoke screen:

I think if he gets hit while emitting smoke he should stop smoking.
Here is why, as things stand now you cant destroy his smoke until after it materializes which puts you in a strange position. FB is establishing an advantage, and all you can do is wait to deal with it. If you hit him he just spreads his smoke over a wider area. I think the opponent should be encouraged to go in and stop the smoke, not wait it out. It will also help discourage unsafe smoking, and encourage more carefully planned play from FB (which I think fits his character well, the assassin)

I haven't thought a lot about balance implications (but I don't think it hurts him a ton) . This is more for making play fun and aggressive.

Thoughts?

I have similar thoughts and an alternative would be to allow you to hit the clouds while they are forming. An advantage over hitting him is he can still run away and you are left literally in the dust. That may be desirable but it is nice to have options for balancing.

Also, I particularly like this statement: "It will also help discourage unsafe smoking." THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS UNSAFE SMOKING! /s

 

[akf09]

Forsburn does not need to be limited on how many times he can smoke stall because a real player would shoot a projectile at the smoke to destroy it

 

[someonetookjacob]

Forsburn does not need to be limited on how many times he can smoke stall because a real player would shoot a projectile at the smoke to destroy it

But he can stall in places difficult to hit with some projectiles, and some characters have projectiles with cooldowns. Future characters may not have projectiles. He can also make more smoke while still off stage.

Even if all future characters have projectiles that deal well with his smoke, smoke stalling can still slow the game down, and I really can't see a downside to limiting it.

 

[akf09]

how does stalling help him?

 

[Cirby64]

how does stalling help him?

I agree. Not sure how stalling is meant to help Forsburn. I think the off chance that somebody might smoke stall, shouldn't limit somebody that can use the infinite upspecials to perfection and pull off some crazy sneak attacks. I really don't think it's a problem either way though, there is 0 sense in even doing it.

 

[IceGoat]

Man I think I just missed the new build beta sign ups I guess I just have to wait to play this AMAZING game!

 

[4nace]

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to let you all know I expanded the playtester pool from 40-50. We still might let a couple more sneak into March so just shoot an email to roa.game at gmail if you think you're the perfect fit.

I haven't been able to read up on this discussion just yet! I will be later tonight hopefully. Haven't had time to think about balance. We are going through a bit of personnel changes starting with character 6 as Midio will no longer be animating for us to pursue other projects. Will keep you guys updated.

EDIT:
For all you guys struggling with Forward Strong and Up Strong on Forsburn - The cape hit is not your traditional type of hit. It has very little knockback and knockback scaling. Charging the smashes however increases the hitstun time of your opponent. So you become more likely to land the second hit if you charge it. Otherwise, I would recommend using the smash then performing a tilt in another direction or waiting and jabbing. It's a good combo tool, while Down Strong is a good finisher. But you can punish a recovery or something by charging F Strong and landing a powerful KO with the dagger.


Thanks,
Dan

 

[MrTurner]

Stalls of any kind should generally try to be avoided, especially this one since characters like Forsburn and Zetter dont really have a way to deal with it without putting themselves in a very high risk situation. After some testing against a human player, I think removing the DJ recovery and limiting the amount of up b refreshes to once per air time would be the best way to go. This way Forsburn still encourages clever cloud positioning without giving him an insane amount of options.

 

[Kasado-Bit]

Just got the new build. Thus far, I noticed that Orcane laid down two puddles on the Basic form of the new water stage. One of the puddles was on the ground and the other was on one of the moving platforms.

 

[4nace]

Just got the new build. Thus far, I noticed that Orcane laid down two puddles on the Basic form of the new water stage. One of the puddles was on the ground and the other was on one of the moving platforms.

Yeah hitting Orcane out of a grounded Uspecial still causes 2 puddles. (i think someone showed 3 is possible) Probably going to put a hard cap on puddles from one player to prevent such a case.

-Dan

 

[Kasado-Bit]

Also, I feel like Forsburn shouldn't be able to hide in an opponent Forsburn's smoke. It's fine if they absorb each other's smoke, but I feel like only the Forsburn should be able to hide in his own smoke, if that makes any sense.

EDIT: SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, you gave him Roy's down-smash from Project M! :D

 

[Aizen]

I don't think there should be a limit on the smoke canceling. It adds to the mind games and the "deception" where is he going to pop out from? When? I kinda like that. And there is a few easy ways to deal with it regardless, Kragg pillar for one would bring that pesky Forsburn right up to you while he's in offstage smoke. But perhaps trying a limit on it wouldn't hurt either I suppose. The point of play testers is feed back yeah? Perhaps next build change it and limit it and see what the consensus is then?

 

[Supersmash77]

Oh please I know you're holding back ferverish screams of joy for how bad *** it is lmao

LOL