Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[JPIII]

Hmm thats a really good question honestly. I can't say there is really a smash character that it resembles in terms of playstyle. The playstyle is based on 'deception' and there really isn't a character that plays quite like this one.

In terms of normals, it does take some inspiration from Smash. There are 2 Marth Aerials and a Lucario Aerial in there. Most of its ground game is fairly unique and doesn't really draw too much inspiration from Smash in terms of visuals at least.

-Dan

Can you please add a character similar to PM sonic. I love his playstayle and since you picture is sonic I think you would mind adding in a character similar to sonic.

 

[Streetwize]

Can you please add a character similar to PM sonic. I love his playstayle and since you picture is sonic I think you would mind adding in a character similar to sonic.

I'm all for this too, but I can't see it being part of the initial roster. Specials would have to be completely different since Kragg already has a roll move, and they need to fit the trend that everyone has area control through their specials.

 

[TOGOpuff]

wow... so much have been discussed since the last time i poped in ...
Unfortunately when i uploaded the video i discovered my mic had been broken for a while (i haven't been using it) so the audio was all messed up. I'm still looking for time to re-record it...

Stage wise :
I play basic mode only, but that is how i face fighting games. i don't like when the enrivonmet interferes on the outcome of a match (i'm not talking about platforms or different heights here)... call me a final destination lover if you may. It's just preferences i don't think aether is worse or better than normal vice versa. I honestly think though that competitive wise normal would be more played because people aren't friendly with stage interference (be it hazards be it anything else), all we gotta do is check SSB stage ban list for that. It will be all nice until someone loses a match because it missed a short hop at wrastor's stage and full jumped getting ko'd because of a mistake that was over captalized because of how the stage works. I'm not saying i completely disapprove it, i'm not saying i'm against it i'm not saying this is not the player's fault because he missed input timing. But this things happens and to try and minimize that basic mode will probably be more played competitive-wise.

Parry:
I think we are falling to the mistake of comparing this game too much with smash bros. We are looking to make the approaches we are used to do (air approaches etc) ... this is a different game so the meta will be different. I don't think it will be over campy. Maybe on the beginning of the meta yes, but when people start to punish camping accordingly gameplan will drastically change. I think we will walk towards a meta where the main idea is to bait a parry instead of camping for safety. Bating a parry gives you enourmous advantage since after the active frames the character that parried has to wait for the end lag before doing anything. Since wavedashing is fairly easy in this game baiting parries isn't really that hard and the mind game will be a huge aspect of the meta in ways of when to parry and when not to parry. This mixed up with a good projectile/long range attack game will be the key to the competitiveness of the game as far as i can see it. Therefore i don't think parries are too strong or are pushing the game into a more campy side, on the opposite, i think it's improving rushdown mixups, making it more brainy on the "how will i bait my opponent into a wrong parry" side of things, which is great in my opinion.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Finally done with the most frustrating week of projects and class work. After Valentines I'll get to work on some stuff I had planned:

• New video (Advanced tech or game overview maybe?)
• New Textures (gib me Suggestions pls)
• Working on a DLC character design
• Sprite art shiz
• The struggle (it's real.)
• Looking for bugs/breaking the game
• Pestering @ 4nace
• Hopefully resuming regular weekly/biweekly streams again

 

[Drazerg]

Finally done with the most frustrating week of projects and class work. After Valentines I'll get to work on some stuff I had planned:

• New video (Advanced tech or game overview maybe?)
• New Textures (gib me Suggestions pls)
• Working on a DLC character design
• Sprite art shiz
• The struggle (it's real.)
• Looking for bugs/breaking the game
• Pestering @ 4nace
• Hopefully resuming regular weekly/biweekly streams again

If I get into the game, I'd definitely look for some "Bugs/Breaking the game" I'm a first year game programmer, got about 6 months in C++ and although far from the best, I understand the logic of find gaps in codes.

 

[Kasado-Bit]

Can you please add a character similar to PM sonic. I love his playstayle and since you picture is sonic I think you would mind adding in a character similar to sonic.

That just reinforces the notion that this would be just another Smash clone. Having one character that's mostly the same as a Smash character is fine for transitioning new players into RoA, but the mindset for future characters should not be "what Smash characters should I bring into this game". The mindset should be "what can this character do that no Smash character has done before". Kragg's recovery move is the best example I can think of. There aren't any characters I can think of in any platform fighting game, or any fighting game period, that can just create platforms for them to stand on. We need more characters like Kragg. Characters that can bring something new to the table.

 

[Yurya]

That just reinforces the notion that this would be just another Smash clone. Having one character that's mostly the same as a Smash character is fine for transitioning new players into RoA, but the mindset for future characters should not be "what Smash characters should I bring into this game". The mindset should be "what can this character do that no Smash character has done before". Kragg's recovery move is the best example I can think of. There aren't any characters I can think of in any platform fighting game, or any fighting game period, that can just create platforms for them to stand on. We need more characters like Kragg. Characters that can bring something new to the table.

It is a Smash clone though, at least heavily inspired by it. I agree though that "what smash characters should I bring into this game" shouldn't be a mindset. If people want a fast character just say you would like a fast character but don't make it merely that. Dan has thus far made a great 4 (5?) characters that demonstrate very unique attributes with great balance and future characters shouldn't move away from that.

 

[Sol_Vent]

I've been thinking about ^ this stuff in terms of archetypes.

Like, we still don't have a crazy ground-mobile character like CF, Luigi, or Sonic. And we also don't have any aerial zoner-ish types like Peach or... Pikachu, I guess? I think it's pretty reasonable to hope to see characters that fit these molds to some degree, especially if you particularly enjoy those styles of character.

Also, I've been feeling rather unmotivated to make new palettes myself. Would anyone be interested in an instructional video on making them? I've been thinking about doing one so if that would encourage more people to try it out I'd like to give the idea a shot.

I don't want to make any promises at this point since I'm not sure when I'll have time for this, but I'd at least like to get some idea of how many would find it helpful.

 

[TOGOpuff]

I'm sorry but considering RoA a Smash clone just because it uses the same mechanics is the same thing than consider every health-bar based fighting game a copy of the first Street Fighter ... which is nonsense. A game isn't a copy of other if they have similarities, this is what genre is all about. The mistake here is that because smash uses a different health/lives/rounds aspect than the other games of the genre every game that utilizes the same idea is a 'smash clone' when if RoA was a health-bar based fighting it would be another fighting game not a 'Street Fighter clone' .

@ Sol_Vent I'd love a tutorial not only for RoA but because i'd really love to learn how to work on sprites for some projects i have on RPG maker. It would be awesome to see a tutorial from you, take your time on it though... no rush. And if you don't find the time to do it, it's ok as well

 

[Conradical]

That should only happen during vectoring mode. It's a Brawl aspect Dan decided to balance out by making it work after 50%(I think) stun has passed and increasing the endlag when executed.[/quote]

Thanks for letting me know!

 

[Streetwize]

I'm sorry but considering RoA a Smash clone just because it uses the same mechanics is the same thing then consider every health-bar based fighting game a copy of Street Fighter II ... which is nonsense. A game isn't a copy of other if they have similarities, this is what genre is all about. The mistake here is that because smash uses a different health/lives/rounds aspect than the other games of the genre every game that utilizes the same idea is a 'smash clone' when if RoA was a health-bar based fighting it would be another fighting game not a 'Street Fighter clone' .

Fixed the post a little game history I know about, and I find this interesting. Capcom actually sued another company for making a game like Street Fighter after 2 was released and the court ruled it in the other company's favor since it contained elements that would consider the game a genre instead of "stealing ideas".
It's weird that people in the past called games Street Fighter "clones" when it had characters similar to it such as Ryu and Chun-Li, while people in recent years call games like Smash Bros., at least those that work like party fighters, similar only because of how it plays. Even then most of those games had enough differences in the gameplay that made it different (save for CN Punch-Time, which tried to emulate Smash's controls), although generally mediocre.

 

[Boss N]

Fixed the post a little game history I know about, and I find this interesting. Capcom actually sued another company for making a game like Street Fighter after 2 was released and the court ruled it in the other company's favor since it contained elements that would consider the game a genre instead of "stealing ideas".
It's weird that people in the past called games Street Fighter "clones" when it had characters similar to it such as Ryu and Chun-Li, while people in recent years call games like Smash Bros., at least those that work like party fighters, similar only because of how it plays. Even then most of those games had enough differences in the gameplay that made it different (save for CN Punch-Time, which tried to emulate Smash's controls), although generally mediocre.

It's only because there was nothing else like smash bros that came before it, (and still hasn't in terms of quality. Hopefully RoA will change that) so there's nothing else to compare it to.

Wow it's been awhile, and even though it's been a week or two since I've been able to play the music is still stuck in my head.

 

[Rubica]

Haven't gotten much time in with this build, but from what I have played, I don't like the way Kragg feels now. I mean, I may be a little biased, considering I mained him, but I feel the stone nerfs went a little overboard.

 

[Boasting Toast]

Haven't gotten much time in with this build, but from what I have played, I don't like the way Kragg feels now. I mean, I may be a little biased, considering I mained him, but I feel the stone nerfs went a little overboard.

As a Kragg main who joined playtesting during this build, I disagree.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Haven't gotten much time in with this build, but from what I have played, I don't like the way Kragg feels now. I mean, I may be a little biased, considering I mained him, but I feel the stone nerfs went a little overboard.

Even with his nerfs I still think he's the best character right now haha

 

[Boasting Toast]

Even with his nerfs I still think he's the best character right now haha

I disagree, I think Orcane is better than the others by a significant margin.

 

[JPIII]

i was wondering when the next time playtesters are gonna be chosen. I applied not to long ago (10 days). I know that they are doing it later this month but I just want to see if I could get rough estimate.

 

[Cirby64]

I disagree, I think Orcane is better than the others by a significant margin.

Really? I think if you can consistently hit Wrastor's Up Special's sweet spot he is the best.

 

[Boasting Toast]

Really? I think if you can consistently hit Wrastor's Up Special's sweet spot he is the best.

Lol you don't even need that. His uair and usmash kill at absurdly low percents on their own, and are hardly punishable. It's gross, more end lag and less kill power please.

 

[Boss N]

Lol you don't even need that. His uair and usmash kill at absurdly low percents on their own, and are hardly punishable. It's gross, more end lag and less kill power please.

I think that only works if you hit the sweet-spots of his smash attacks

 

[Boasting Toast]

I think that only works if you hit the sweet-spots of his smash attacks

Which really isn't difficult at all. uair also kills and you can't punish it because it makes him fly downward anyways, you can chain 2 uairs with bad DI, or detonate a puddle into uair at 50 and kill off the top, it's beyond stupid.

 

[Yurya]

Which really isn't difficult at all. uair also kills and you can't punish it because it makes him fly downward anyways, you can chain 2 uairs with bad DI, or detonate a puddle into uair at 50 and kill off the top, it's beyond stupid.

Are you guys talking Wrastor or Orcane? Because there are some confusing statements without that clarification.

 

[Streetwize]

Which really isn't difficult at all. uair also kills and you can't punish it because it makes him fly downward anyways, you can chain 2 uairs with bad DI, or detonate a puddle into uair at 50 and kill off the top, it's beyond stupid.

Are you guys talking Wrastor or Orcane? Because there are some confusing statements without that clarification.

Bolded text, and I agree. Am I missing out on something here?

 

[Boasting Toast]

Are you guys talking Wrastor or Orcane? Because there are some confusing statements without that clarification.

If you read the past few posts, I disagreed with Sanic, who said he thinks Kragg is the best character in the game, and I said that I thought Orcane was the best. All posts since have referred to that conversation. Since when did Wrastor have puddles or an uair that pushes him downward anyways? lol.

 

[Yurya]

Really? I think if you can consistently hit Wrastor's Up Special's sweet spot he is the best.

Lol you don't even need that. His uair and usmash kill at absurdly low percents on their own, and are hardly punishable. It's gross, more end lag and less kill power please.

This is where conversation got muddy.
Later you replied to Boss N and he said something about sweetspots.
As both Orcane and Wrastor have sweetspots Orcane on his uair & Wrastor on his Upsmash things were confusing.

But off topic so...

Kragg is easier than Orcane so I can see why people think he is better and he actually probably would perform better in tournaments until people get used Orcane down.

Orcane/Zettaburn/Kragg/Wrastor is how I see it.

 

[Boasting Toast]

Orcane/Zettaburn/Kragg/Wrastor is how I see it.

That's exactly how I see it as well.

 

[Cowhunter]

What would you guys say the play style of each character is? Someone said earlier that there is a lack of a hard zoner character, are they all primarily rushdown based with some minor variations or is each character a different type of close-combat fighter?

 

[RoA_Zam]

What would you guys say the play style of each character is? Someone said earlier that there is a lack of a hard zoner character, are they all primarily rushdown based with some minor variations or is each character a different type of close-combat fighter?

I'll just leave this here...

 

[Cowhunter]

I'll just leave this here...

Spoiler

Interesting that Orca guy is considered a zoner so strongly by this chart. Is it simply that he is the most zoner-ish character in relation to the cast, or is it that he really has strong zoning tools? From what little I've seen of the game, his ability to zone seems limited but his opportunities to apply decent pressure seem often.

 

[Boasting Toast]

I'll just leave this here...

I never got that chart, I usually play rushdown Orcane as that's my preferred playstyle and it works out just fine. Should probably utilize my puddle game more, though.

 

[Boss N]

Is this chart suggesting there's 4 more characters coming instead of 2?

 

[RoA_Zam]

Is this chart suggesting there's 4 more characters coming instead of 2?

Dan already said there'd be at least 8 characters but probably no more than 8 unless DLC. 2 for each element.

@ Cowhunter Dan himself made the chart and he's the orcane main so I guess he knows what he means by zoner for that character.

 

[Boasting Toast]

@ Cowhunter Dan himself made the chart and he's the orcane main so I guess he knows what he means by zoner for that character.

We all have different playstyles, and I've never played any way other than rushdown, so I guess I force rushdown Orcane to work out, lol. Maybe I should play him more zone heavy.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Sometimes I play keep-away with Wrastor using the projectile and its movement buff. The characters are open-ended in their design.

And that's real cool.

 

[Theguesst]

So I'm still following this game eagerly. Thought up a couple techniques inspired by my fighting games from the past.

Charge character: Smash has always lacked a character with moves that require manually holding down a button to power up an attack. There are a million ways to go with this with examples like guile in super turbo, zero in mvc3 and a lot of other platformers as well.

Grappler: Throws aren't a thing in RoA, but if a character were to get one I would say this is how it could work. Have to land up close, leads into a 50/50 mixup and can potentially kill at high %. Unable to control space otherwise and whole game would revolve around getting in (good dash attack?) and getting throws.

Just throwing this out there. Keep up the good work.

 

[RoA_Zam]

So I'm still following this game eagerly. Thought up a couple techniques inspired by my fighting games from the past.

Charge character: Smash has always lacked a character with moves that require manually holding down a button to power up an attack. There are a million ways to go with this with examples like guile in super turbo, zero in mvc3 and a lot of other platformers as well.

Grappler: Throws aren't a thing in RoA, but if a character were to get one I would say this is how it could work. Have to land up close, leads into a 50/50 mixup and can potentially kill at high %. Unable to control space otherwise and whole game would revolve around getting in (good dash attack?) and getting throws.

Just throwing this out there. Keep up the good work.

You won't be disappointed with new info coming within a few weeks then.

 

[Sol_Vent]

So I filled in the chart that Sanic posted with some speculation on which spot is for which element.

Spoiler: Warning! Speculation ahead!

Explanations:
Fire- The next character. I'm thinking of this guy as the "advanced" balanced character where Zetterburn is the "basic" one.

Water- Ice character, needs to be on the ground to benefit from traction-altering stuff they'll inevitably have. I'm imagining a speedy character with shades of CF and Luigi.

Air- Air zoner! Pretty simple reasoning, air characters belong in the air. Oh, and since we seem to be following Golden Sun logic, I'd say this character is lightning-elemental.

Earth- A plant-based character that uses vines (based on the game's logo), and a "Dhalsim" type fighter that maybe draws some inspiration from ZSS.


That's what I'm imagining anyway. What do you guys think?

 

[4nace]

We all have different playstyles, and I've never played any way other than rushdown, so I guess I force rushdown Orcane to work out, lol. Maybe I should play him more zone heavy.

Rivals is designed as an aggressive game so every character can be played aggressively if need be . Compared to other smash games, Orcane might not be a ridiculous Zoner but if you consider Zetterburn to be "balanced" then the directions start to make a bit more sense no?

Also not sure if my brother is just being stupid, but I have been calling Wrastor's Down Special a "chain grab" recently. I just do it with no platforms around then wavedash back then repeat. Some one test this out and let me know what you find. I was also able to tech chase him if he teched upon hitting the ground. Some times he was able to double jump out though so not sure if that's percent based or if he was using noob DI to get out. I also pulled off an aerial version where I did grounded d special into full hop into air d special into double jump into another air d special into Up Smash. Felt really cool honestly.

@ Theguesst . 5th Character has a charge special move. It's pretty cool. Reminiscent of G&W Bucket or Wario Waft a bit.

I have been thinking of experimenting with grabs. Would probably look toward Bowser's Koopa Klaw for inspiration there. Not sure how it would function with parries (go through, go through and do more damage/knockback, not go through parry, heavy punishment to yourself for grabbing a parry)

Currently in the designs that I have written up, I am leaning toward new hitstun states that have different properties. An example of a different hitstun state would be something like ZSS down smash, where the opponent is locked in place for a set period of time before they can move / jump away.

 

[Xanthus]

Looking at the grid: Wrastor has aerial combos, but his ground game is leagues above everybody elses with that wind. And he's got the easiest / best ground combos. With the wind you can ftilt or dtilt, and then dash to follow up based on DI into another ftilt/dtilt. And do this until you want to ftilt to start an aerial combo to finish, or try to dash in with an uptilt to set up an edgeguard. I don't know if this is something you want to change or not, but it super easy to learn and with his fantastic ground movement, really easy to space and perform. To make him more aerial based you'd have to take out that ground movement, or change up his ground game.

Also @ 4nace , what about Smash attacks not being parry-able? That could be the option to beat out parry (other than feinting and punishing, or charging a smash to hit durring parry-recovery), and defensively they could just use roll for smashes.

 

[Yurya]

Also not sure if my brother is just being stupid, but I have been calling Wrastor's Down Special a "chain grab" recently. I just do it with no platforms around then wavedash back then repeat. Some one test this out and let me know what you find. I was also able to tech chase him if he teched upon hitting the ground. Some times he was able to double jump out though so not sure if that's percent based or if he was using noob DI to get out. I also pulled off an aerial version where I did grounded d special into full hop into air d special into double jump into another air d special into Up Smash. Felt really cool honestly.

I'll have to play with that.

Sidenote: What are your thoughts in Wrastor's aerial version of Down-b spiking? And if the above seems to be a problem maybe it could be adjusted to a KO option instead of a combo starter (potentially buffed while in his current).

5th Character has a charge special move. It's pretty cool. Reminiscent of G&W Bucket or Wario Waft a bit.

Oooh, I hope it is closer to the latest PM Wario and not Brawl Wario. Brawl's has way too long of a charge time. Also I am personally not a fan of manual charge moves like a Lucas' nb but ones in line with R.O.B.'s laser are great.

I have been thinking of experimenting with grabs. Would probably look toward Bowser's Koopa Klaw for inspiration there. Not sure how it would function with parries (go through, go through and do more damage/knockback, not go through parry, heavy punishment to yourself for grabbing a parry

I would advise yes to grabs and using the Koopa Klaw as template. The lack of pummel and auto-throw aspect along with an optional direction(s) for throwing and the ability to use it in the air make a well balanced tool. I would say they should also go through parries as I still have concerns with the parry having no direct counter. Don't make them too good maybe add a good amount of lag on miss to balance.

I would make this a universal tool if it beats parries, and maybe even adding the ability to grab in different directions might be interesting.

Currently in the designs that I have written up, I am leaning toward new hitstun states that have different properties. An example of a different hitstun state would be something like ZSS down smash, where the opponent is locked in place for a set period of time before they can move / jump away.

Huh, maybe Zetta's fire doesn't increase KB on Smashes, but instead increases stun? An Ice character can deliver a frozen state like ZSS' stuns? Characters hit by water/bubbles slide during techs? Just spit-balling.