Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[JayTheUnseen]

Throwing in the playtesting towel.


I'm really sorry for my lack of feedback.I REALLY wanted to get into this game, but it's just not working.
The people I can play with don't share my enthusiasm for the game, and I can't get the same kind of feedback myself that I can with others.

Best luck and wishes.You really have something here, and don't throw it away.
This can be something great down the road.That I can say with certainty.
I'll be sure to play it upon release.

Sorry for wasting your time.

 

[arcticfox8]

I'm having a lot of fun with Kragg.
I found a glitch(?) where he can pull 2 rocks(potentially more) but I don't exactly know how I did it.
Will test later to see if I can recreate it and come back here.
Unless we all already know and I was unaware.
That's definitely possible.

 

[Voodoo Moon]

As a side note, I don't have the means to properly test it right this moment, but can you just short hop, d-air on Orcane repeatedly, or does the opponent have a way of getting out?

From what I've seen you can escape, CPU opponents (not completely sure about humans) do escape it, using an air dodge, roll or DI (SDI?) away from it. It's good for racking up damage at early percents, all against a CPU opponent of course, may differ with Human players. Sorry if this isn't of much help

 

[Paquito]

Again, this is all talking about sales. If you don't care, then it doesn't matter what you make. But if you want to sell, it's best to make the game accessible. Remember: Smash became a success because it was easy to pick up and play. The game design a lot of Smashboard people want is not that.

What was inaccessible about Melee?

 

[Streetwize]

What was inaccessible about Melee?

My big question is: why are you trying to defend Melee as a game that anybody can play competitively? Melee requires a LOT of practice to get on the competitive level (save for Jiggs, but that's not the point). It also requires a lot of quick inputs. Anybody can tell you that the game is simple, yet it also needs a hefty amount of practice. Would you really expect someone without a broad interest simply practice to get good? Nope. They'll just move on.
Rivals simplifies SEVERAL things from Melee such as auto-cancelling, SDI, and even wavedashing. Enough about Melee though; we're not here to discuss that game.

 

[PabloTheDinamic]

Are there taunts in the game yet? That could be something to add a bit of personality to the characters

I'm with you, that would help a lot to make each character have more personality (the characters already look and play way different)... Even if they just taunt automatically after each kill if they were in land ... (if they were in the air the game would not attempt to taunt)...

 

[Paquito]

My big question is: why are you trying to defend Melee as a game that anybody can play competitively?

... I'm not. I'm using Melee as an example of a competitive fighter that also has a huge casual fan-base. It's a counter-example to the argument that "designing a competitive game will turn off casual players or fracture your fan-base".

Edit: Anyway, the only reason I'm going on about it here is because I'm pretty excited about what Rivals of Aether is trying to do, and it'd be a shame if they took those baseless concerns about fan-base fracturing seriously. Based on how the game's developed so far, it looks like they haven't.

 

[CupOfTar]

Alright, so today I got to play with a friend of mine who never played a smash game in his life. Here are the results:

He basically made the same mistakes I would see from people playing smash for the first time, like jumping too much, using tons of specials, never using tilts, etc. What I would love is if you could make a tutorial for these kinds of players where things like the types of moves, game mechanics, the neutral-game, spacing, punishing and more could be explained to them.

Something I really enjoyed seeing though is the fact that he could sometimes string together 2 - 3 attacks against me. This gave him motivation to become better and is something this game does really well.

He said that he liked the characters and the music (except for the track on Fire Capitol, which he found to be kinda meh. But he really liked the track on Air Armada (is that what it's called? I can't look it up right now)) and found that the game was really fun, but would have been more fun if it had CPUs he could actually practice against. (I'm guessing this is just and issue of this being an alpha version of the game)

So all in all he enjoyed it and we had a great afternoon, even though I had to sandbag all the time. ^-^

 

[Voodoo Moon]

He basically made the same mistakes I would see from people playing smash for the first time, like jumping too much, using tons of specials, never using tilts, etc. What I would love is if you could make a tutorial for these kinds of players where things like the types of moves, game mechanics, the neutral-game, spacing, punishing and more could be explained to them.

Something like Skullgirls? That game has a really good tutorial system for stuff like that. I think something like that would be a good idea, even if it was just images.

 

[DJLO]

havent read through this whole thread, so sorry if this has been posted before, but i've found what i think are 2 glitches so far:

1. if Wrastor uses his side special(the jetstream) and the opponent counters it, the effect for the stream will be shown in a lighter color than normal(similar to how every move looks when countered). the brightly colored stream will then stay on screen, but will not have the speed boosting effect it normally has. this may be intentional, but it seems like the stream should just disappear when countered(im guessing it stays visible to show you when you can use another one). if this is not a glitch, then maybe use a new visual to depict the stream as countered, since right now it looks "powered up" as opposed to "nullified"

2. Kragg can sometimes get himself stuck on one of his pillars, unable to attack you.

i will post videos/screenshots of these botch when i get home

p.s. <3 this game, thank you so much for letting me playtest!!!!!

 

[Voodoo Moon]

havent read through this whole thread, so sorry if this has been posted before, but i've found what i think are 2 glitches so far:

1. if Wrastor uses his side special(the jetstream) and the opponent counters it, the effect for the stream will be shown in a lighter color than normal(similar to how every move looks when countered). the brightly colored stream will then stay on screen, but will not have the speed boosting effect it normally has. this may be intentional, but it seems like the stream should just disappear when countered(im guessing it stays visible to show you when you can use another one). if this is not a glitch, then maybe use a new visual to depict the stream as countered, since right now it looks "powered up" as opposed to "nullified"

I just saw that, seems to only happen when you are very close to the enemy. Here's a gif of both cases where it is happening http:// gfycat.com/TangibleHandmadeDrongo (I can't send a full link yet )

 

[DJLO]

I just saw that, seems to only happen when you are very close to the enemy. Here's a gif of both cases where it is happening http:// gfycat.com/TangibleHandmadeDrongo (I can't send a full link yet )

gotchu http://gfycat.com/TangibleHandmadeDrongo

and yes this is exactly what i meant! thanks will still upload the Kragg stuck glitch later

 

[PabloTheDinamic]

But he really liked the track on Air Armada (is that what it's called? I can't look it up right now)) and found that the game was really fun, but would have been more fun if it had CPUs he could actually practice against. (I'm guessing this is just and issue of this being an alpha version of the game)

So all in all he enjoyed it and we had a great afternoon, even though I had to sandbag all the time. ^-^

You can turn AI's into practice mode by the ''N'' key.

gotchu http://gfycat.com/TangibleHandmadeDrongo

and yes this is exactly what i meant! thanks will still upload the Kragg stuck glitch later

Oooh.. that looks pretty fast because in my pc the game lags when Wrastor uses side special.
Also, I'll try to recreate that :D

 

[T00nbink]

Wanted to show of my Custom Recolour, so I wanted to do something different because I love editing those videos! (and I was bored).

(I uploaded the outdated version so I have the good one now).

 

[Boss N]

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I left my wired Xbox controller back at home!
Are there any other possible ways to play the game? I noticed there's a port in the front of a regular wireless controller, is there something I can plug into that will allow me to play on the computer?

 

[Boasting Toast]

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I left my wired Xbox controller back at home!
Are there any other possible ways to play the game? I noticed there's a port in the front of a regular wireless controller, is there something I can plug into that will allow me to play on the computer?

Nope, that's for charging. You'd need to buy a 360 Wireless USB Receiver for it, which is like $15, at that point you'd be better off buying a GC adapter.

 

[PabloTheDinamic]

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I left my wired Xbox controller back at home!
Are there any other possible ways to play the game? I noticed there's a port in the front of a regular wireless controller, is there something I can plug into that will allow me to play on the computer?

By not having a way to use a controller like the GC on my PC... I play with the Wii U Gamepad via UsendMii. Noticeably, you have to ''adapt'' to the gameplay....

 

[Boasting Toast]

Here's the bug I was talking about earlier. Happens with the platforms on The Rock Wall, too, so basically it's triggered when you throw a rock at a rolling Kragg right as the top of the rock aligns with the collision of a platform.

Also, here's another thing I found, the arrow in the hitbox for Kragg's bair is displayed incorrectly.

Additionally, I think a weaker backwards hitbox should be added to the tip of Kragg's usmash, there's been a number of times where I've usmashed someone, and the tip of his horn goes straight through them, kinda annoying. Here's what I'm talking about.

Lots of finds today, lol.
Edit: ANOTHER FIND.
If 2 Kraggs raise their pillars at the same time inside eachother, they will stay intact and overlap eachother. Normally, one would destroy the other, but not if they both raise at the same time.

 

[DJLO]

the two things i mentioned

@ RoA_Zam two glitches/things

 

[Gatoray]

Hello everyone! I am really excited to be a beta tester for this game. This initial post will be mostly an organized info dump on my thoughts regarding balance, feature suggestions, etc. Hopefully as I play more, I'll be able to find bugs and report them. And hopefully, if I find people to play with, I'll gain insight on balance issues.

Characters:

Zetterburn:
He definitely feels like the "Fox" of this game, and I see the obvious Fox influences. I still don't know too much about the DI or SDI mechanics in this game, but I'm a little worried that the priority on his Nair might be a bit much, especially since it's multi-hit and can carry opponents across the stage easily. I assume this is balanced because the hitstun is low and escapable? Everything else about him seems to be very standard, so no complaints there.

Wrastor:
Having his Smash attacks in the air is very strange to get used to. Something I might suggest to try out is instead of his smash halting him in midair, it could just increase the air friction so he still retains momentum but is still affected by gravity. Sort of how Spacies shines reduce aerial momentum. I can imagine the creative spacing and combos that come out of this mechanic. Otherwise, he feels a bit weak to me. Maybe that's because he feels too much like Jigglypuff in his playstyle, and that's not a bad thing, just something I don't really understand as much.

Kragg:
I like how you're making a heavy character with actual combo potential. His defensive options are very strong and his up B is very creative. One small thing about the training AI though, when he does his up B offstage, he just stands there instead of trying to get back to the stage. Also, can't a Kragg effectively stall a match by making a platform way offstage then camp with rock throw? Or is there something I'm missing? I don't get how his Side-B is good, you can't jump with it and it's slow. I know it has tons of armor, but it just seems too predictable.

Orcane:
Definitely my favorite character so far. I love his Neutral-B projectile, his Fair is really funny. The utility with his ink drop is really fun, and the teleportation is really handy and not too overpowered. I'm having trouble finding uses for Side-B, is it meant for a emergency recovery when you don't (or can't) use Up-B? Also, just like with Zetterburn's Nair, Orcane's Dair combos extremely well and I'm a little worried about it's balance. The CPU AI was having trouble getting out of repeated Dairs.

__________________

Stages:
(Note: after writing this section I realized there was a "basic" stage option. Wow, you really thought of everything!)
Fire Capitol:
Interesting asymmetry. Pretty neutral, but is it just me or does the left side blast zone seem further away than the right side?

Air Armada:
Creative use for a stage feature with that spring. Maybe test having the spring propel in a direction based on where you're standing on it instead of which direction you're holding. (i.e. standing on the far right side would have you jump to the left, and vice versa)

The Rock Wall:
It's hard to come from Melee where walk-offs are completely banned and take this stage seriously, but I realize this is a different game with different mechanics. I'm not sure what I think of the collapsing pillars though, maybe have them only partially collapse?

___________________

General:

First of all, thank you for thinking about wavedashing, I love it so much. Now I will thank you even more if you think about increasing the distance that you can wavedash... at least for Orcane.

I'm a little weirded out by the lack of shield (or even just a block of any kind) and grab. I'm assuming you're planning on balancing the game around those things being gone and focusing on the dodge and parry for defensive play. However, I really hope that the lack of strong defensive options doesn't turn this game into a combo-fest like Smash 64 was. And like I said before, maybe I just don't know what the defensive options like SDI and combo-breaking moves are.

___________________

But anyway, there's my spiel. Already can't wait for the full version!

 

[Boss N]

Well with this blizzard going on, even if I get my controller mailed from home it would still be a week before I get the chance to play
I'll try the wiiU method but seems like ALOT of tedious work.

Kragg:
I like how you're making a heavy character with actual combo potential. His defensive options are very strong and his up B is very creative. One small thing about the training AI though, when he does his up B offstage, he just stands there instead of trying to get back to the stage. Also, can't a Kragg effectively stall a match by making a platform way offstage then camp with rock throw? Or is there something I'm missing? I don't get how his Side-B is good, you can't jump with it and it's slow. I know it has tons of armor, but it just seems too predictable.

I think this was an issue discussed earlier, but it is possible to edge guard Kragg even with his up-B because other players can use the platform as well, it mostly comes down to the opponent being ballsey enough to go out there and knock him off his own pillar since he can't make another one.

 

[Gatoray]

I think this was an issue discussed earlier, but it is possible to edge guard Kragg even with his up-B because other players can use the platform as well, it mostly comes down to the opponent being ballsey enough to go out there and knock him off his own pillar since he can't make another one.

But what about vs. Zetterburn? The other characters I can imagine being able to recover from a ballsy edgeguard, but Zetterburn with his limited recovery range probably wouldn't be able to make it back, right? Even if that wasn't the case, I still hope it doesn't become an issue in the metagame. If it does, there might need to be a time limit placed on the pillar before it automatically collapses.

(Or wait... does Zetterburns Side-B break the pillar? Sorry, I'm at work right now and can't test, lol)

 

[Voodoo Moon]

But what about vs. Zetterburn? The other characters I can imagine being able to recover from a ballsy edgeguard, but Zetterburn with his limited recovery range probably wouldn't be able to make it back, right? Even if that wasn't the case, I still hope it doesn't become an issue in the metagame. If it does, there might need to be a time limit placed on the pillar before it automatically collapses.

(Or wait... does Zetterburns Side-B break the pillar? Sorry, I'm at work right now and can't test, lol)

His Side-B cannot break the Pillar. Yeh you've probably got a good point here. I would allow his projectile to break the pillar for sure, or a timer would work too.

Edit: Wrastor's projectile DOES however break the Pillar. I find this odd considering Zetterburn has a more powerful and slower projectile.

 

[RoA_Zam]

But what about vs. Zetterburn? The other characters I can imagine being able to recover from a ballsy edgeguard, but Zetterburn with his limited recovery range probably wouldn't be able to make it back, right? Even if that wasn't the case, I still hope it doesn't become an issue in the metagame. If it does, there might need to be a time limit placed on the pillar before it automatically collapses.

(Or wait... does Zetterburns Side-B break the pillar? Sorry, I'm at work right now and can't test, lol)

Run out and neutral B a pillar. Air dodge back then up B and walljump, jump, and upB again. He has a good recovery.

 

[Gatoray]

Run out and neutral B a pillar. Air dodge back then up B and walljump, jump, and upB again. He has a good recovery.

Oh yeah! That's right, you can act out of air dodge and wall jump out of Up-B. Makes total sense now.

(But still, it's kinda lame that the training AI just hangs out there)

 

[Boss N]

Oh yeah! That's right, you can act out of air dodge and wall jump out of Up-B. Makes total sense now.

(But still, it's kinda lame that the training AI just hangs out there)

On the bright side you'll know exactly what to do if human players try to pull that crap off

 

[RoA_Zam]

Making an organized list with stuff from the thread that I deem important for Dan to see.

This way he can look on my list instead of wasting a lot of time on the thread when he doesn't have the time to.

If you have things you want added to the list. Quote or Mention me with your stuff.
https://trello.com/b/O1AZ16QS/roa-thread-submitted-stuff

 

[Gatoray]

Making an organized list with stuff from the thread that I deem important for Dan to see.

This way he can look on my list instead of wasting a lot of time on the thread when he doesn't have the time to.

If you have things you want added to the list. Quote or Mention me with your stuff.
https://trello.com/b/O1AZ16QS/roa-thread-submitted-stuff

Feel free to add whatever you think is worth putting in from the impressions-dump I made earlier. I'll mention you if I have anything else I want to communicate specifically to Dan.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Feel free to add whatever you think is worth putting in from the impressions-dump I made earlier. I'll mention you if I have anything else I want to communicate specifically to Dan.

Impressions aren't too important unless they're things that people don't like about the game. The positives aren't necessarily too important as long as he see's what everyone thinks is negative.

 

[Gatoray]

Impressions aren't too important unless they're things that people don't like about the game. The positives aren't necessarily too important as long as he see's what everyone thinks is negative.

Yes, I have some negative impressions in that post. I'll quote them here so it's easier to see:

"I'm a little worried that the priority on [Zetterburn's] Nair might be a bit much, especially since it's multi-hit and can carry opponents across the stage easily. I assume this is balanced because the hitstun is low and escapable?"

"Something I might suggest to try out is instead of [Wrastor's] smash halting him in midair, it could just increase the air friction so he still retains momentum but is still affected by gravity. Sort of how Spacies shines reduce aerial momentum. I can imagine the creative spacing and combos that come out of this mechanic. Otherwise, he feels a bit weak to me."

"One small thing about the training [Kragg] AI though, when he does his up B offstage, he just stands there instead of trying to get back to the stage. ... I don't get how his Side-B is good, you can't jump with it and it's slow. I know it has tons of armor, but it just seems too predictable."

"I'm having trouble finding uses for [Orcane's] Side-B, is it meant for a emergency recovery when you don't (or can't) use Up-B? Also, just like with Zetterburn's Nair, Orcane's Dair combos extremely well and I'm a little worried about it's balance. The CPU AI was having trouble getting out of repeated Dairs."

"First of all, thank you for thinking about wavedashing, I love it so much. Now I will thank you even more if you think about increasing the distance that you can wavedash... at least for Orcane.

I'm a little weirded out by the lack of shield (or even just a block of any kind) and grab. I'm assuming you're planning on balancing the game around those things being gone and focusing on the dodge and parry for defensive play. However, I really hope that the lack of strong defensive options doesn't turn this game into a combo-fest like Smash 64 was. And like I said before, maybe I just don't know what the defensive options like SDI and combo-breaking moves are."

 

[Voodoo Moon]

"Something I might suggest to try out is instead of [Wrastor's] smash halting him in midair, it could just increase the air friction so he still retains momentum but is still affected by gravity. Sort of how Spacies shines reduce aerial momentum. I can imagine the creative spacing and combos that come out of this mechanic. Otherwise, he feels a bit weak to me."

It doesn't halt him in midair if the smash attack isn't charged. Though I think that idea for charged Smash attacks is pretty cool

 

[Beets]

So are grabs instead of smash attacks a possibility for a future character in this game?

 

[RoA_Zam]

Yes, I have some negative impressions in that post. I'll quote them here so it's easier to see:

If I glaze over things it could also mean he's already discussed the idea as well, and bringing it up again wouldn't be too useful. Keep that in mind when I'm making this list.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Making an organized list with stuff from the thread that I deem important for Dan to see.

This way he can look on my list instead of wasting a lot of time on the thread when he doesn't have the time to.

If you have things you want added to the list. Quote or Mention me with your stuff.
https://trello.com/b/O1AZ16QS/roa-thread-submitted-stuff

I can't see that list. It says "Board not found." and that the board may be private. Am I missing something? Is this a Skype group thing?

In other news, I've finally fought some human opponents, and I'm joining the chorus in observing that Kragg tends to dominate among inexperienced players. It's likely that learning how to deal with Kragg is going to be one of the first things that players will need to focus on when picking up this game, because it's kind of a whole new approach to dealing with a matchup. This character is really something.

Also, palette edits are fun. I'll probably post a few of mine later.

 

[RoA_Zam]

I can't see that list. It says "Board not found." and that the board may be private. Am I missing something? Is this a Skype group thing?

In other news, I've finally fought some human opponents, and I'm joining the chorus in observing that Kragg tends to dominate among inexperienced players. It's likely that learning how to deal with Kragg is going to be one of the first things that players will need to focus on when picking up this game, because it's kind of a whole new approach to dealing with a matchup. This character is really something.

Also, palette edits are fun. I'll probably post a few of mine later.

Forgot to set it to public lolll. Fixed.

 

[Boasting Toast]

Making an organized list with stuff from the thread that I deem important for Dan to see.

This way he can look on my list instead of wasting a lot of time on the thread when he doesn't have the time to.

If you have things you want added to the list. Quote or Mention me with your stuff.
https://trello.com/b/O1AZ16QS/roa-thread-submitted-stuff

Throw in these two bugs, please.
1. Throwing a rock at another Kragg while he is using his side special will result in the rock freezing in mid air if it hits him right as the top of it aligns with the colliosion of a platform.
2. If 2 Kraggs raise pillars in the same place at the same time, they both stay intact inside eachother instead of 1 destroying the other.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Ah, now that I can see the list, there's something mentioned there I feel like putting some input into.

#969 A tutorial system for new users to learn advanced things [Sanic = Possibly a UI option for selectable videos on certain things like wavedashing, air dodging, teching, wall-jumping, etc?]

I strongly feel that this idea should be implemented into the planned story mode, whatever else the specifics may be. Basically, the idea would be to include tutorial-esque bonus stages in the vein of Target Test, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish designed to teach players about both general game mechanics and character-specific abilities, particularly those related to movement. There could also be unique battle conditions early on that focus on parrying and dodging attacks.

Not only would it be a very expedient way to teach players these mechanics, it would also make story mode feel a bit richer and more diverse than just being "arcade mode with cutscenes" like what a lot of fighters do. Not sure how feasible this is given the scope of the game, but this is how I think a tutorial system would work best.

 

[DJLO]

@ RoA_Zam some puddle oddities, including teleport below the stage

 

[Sol_Vent]

Since I said I would post these color edits, I figure I should maybe do it, yeah? So here's what I've got after messing around with this. It's pretty fun!

 

[DrMister]

I feel like crap >_<. I've been out of the picture for a bit. I had 4 exams this week so, 'scuse me. I so hyped for friday. Thanks @ RoA_Zam for posting the tutorial! :D